Dodge Challenger Forum banner

Pennzoil Ultra vs. Mobil 1: MY OPINION!!!

103K views 59 replies 32 participants last post by  mikeychallenger 
#1 ·
In another thread on Pennzoil Ultra and engine noise, I posted that I had a ticking from our 392 engine. I changed the oil in it yesterday and decided to use the last of the Mobil 1 0W40 I had leftover for my '08. From the initial start up after the change, I noticed that the ticking was greatly reduced if not gone. However, I didn't want to jump to a conclusion without more "data", in this case, more miles. Today, with the sunny, 55F weather here, my wife and I went for a ride; in fact, a 97 mile drive. During this drive I purposely accelerated heavy and normal, all the while listening for the tick. I have to say, if there was any tick, it was so slight that a normal conversation or regular volume music easily drowned it out. Now, I am not suggesting that this tick is caused by the Pennzoil Ultra, but I would say that the Mobil 1 is masking the tick better.

I wanted to share my experience with our engine tick and using Mobil 1 vs. Pennzoil Ultra. As most things in life, each engine is different and therefore your results could vary. ALSO, there are many oils that others use here, and those could produce similar, if not better results

Thanks!
 
#2 ·
Haven't done my first oil change yet. Any idea what the 12 392s came out of the factory with?
I think with penzoil, it's more of a marketing and/or endorsement deal.
Mobil 1 has a reputation and been around forever.
Has Anybody used the purple one ?
I was planning to use Mobil 1 at 6000k for my first OC.
Great thread btw


Sent from my iPhone using AutoGuide.com Free App
 
#4 ·
Originally, the 392s had Mobil 1 0w-40 from the factory. Around 2011-2012 they switched to Pennzoil Ultra 5w-40. In 2012.5+, they fill with the new Pennzoil 0w-40.

Royal Purple runs thicker than the stock oils at operating temperature.

Here's a table for reference.




Sent from my iPhone using AutoGuide.com App
 
#5 ·
I'm going to try Mobil 1 0-40 next outing also
 
#8 ·
#7 ·
I used Pennzoil in my 71 Challenger and I didn't like it. It used to cake up in the corners of the valve covers (340ci). I then moved to a Quaker State which made the engine start and run noticeably better and quieter. In my 6.1 I run Royal Purple, but it gets parked in the winter, so no real problem with start up.


Sent from my iPhone using AutoGuide.com App
 
#12 ·
Thanks for posting this, I went today and they let me use two coupons so I now have 20 quarts and four filters for $128.
Might go back and get more. They had many cases of 0W-40 there.
 
#13 · (Edited)
I too went to Pep Boys and picked up 4 specials, they would have let me get more but they ran out of filters. The store manager told me he didn't care about the limit 2 on the coupon, and when they get in more filters on Monday he told me to come back. Don't miss out on this guys, it's a great deal and takes the worry out of stretching oil change intervals.
 
#17 ·
I don't have a 392, but I did have the dealer put Pennzoil Platinum in mine as I didn't have time to do an oil change myself before leaving on a road trip. The Pennzoil made the engine noticeably noisier. I went back to Mobil 1 next time and there was a big difference. Pennzoil may get good UOAs, but my engine does not like it one bit. Sticking with Mobil 1.
 
#18 ·
The Pennzoil 0W40 contains more ppm of Molybdenum Disulfide than the Mobil 1. More moly is better for the 392's because of the Variable Valve Timing. They found that the scuffing on the backside of the cams is excessive at lower ppm. That's why I decided to go with the Pennzoil.
 
#20 ·
Do you have a link to the VOA showing how much moly the Pennzoil has? Choosing an oil because of a single component is like buying a car because you like how the tires look. ;)

Mobil 1 0w40 has consistently been the benchmark oil with healthy levels of moly, but also healthy levels of zinc and phosphorus (Help reduce wear). The 5.7s also have VVT, haven't heard of issues with cam wear or scuffing with them...

Data is part of my job. The VOA and UOA for Mobil 1 show time after time that it's a great oil. The fact that my engine, as well as others' here, sounds happier with Mobil 1 confirms that. I've yet to see any VOA or UOA for Pennzoil Ultra 0w40, but I have heard plenty of complaints about Pennzoil Ultra and not just here on CT.

Apparently some Pennzoil "engineers" had a Q&A session over on the SRT forums. Based on the responses given by Pennzoil, they weren't engineers but instead were people from Pennzoil's marketing department as they could give no technical answers about the product. Their responses were always in marketing speak.

Pennzoil Enginners Q&A Session - SRT Forums - SRT4, SRT6, SRT8, SRT10 & Dodge Forum

Bottomline, use whatever you want but I don't know how you can compare one to another without actual data. Post up the VOAs for the oils and that will tell the real story.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Do you have a link to the VOA showing how much moly the Pennzoil has? Choosing an oil because of a single component is like buying a car because you like how the tires look. ;)

Mobil 1 0w40 has consistently been the benchmark oil with healthy levels of moly, but also healthy levels of zinc and phosphorus (Help reduce wear). The 5.7s also have VVT, haven't heard of issues with cam wear or scuffing with them...

Data is part of my job. The VOA and UOA for Mobil 1 show time after time that it's a great oil. The fact that my engine, as well as others' here, sounds happier with Mobil 1 confirms that. I've yet to see any VOA or UOA for Pennzoil Ultra 0w40, but I have heard plenty of complaints about Pennzoil Ultra and not just here on CT.

Apparently some Pennzoil "engineers" had a Q&A session over on the SRT forums. Based on the responses given by Pennzoil, they weren't engineers but instead were people from Pennzoil's marketing department as they could give no technical answers about the product. Their responses were always in marketing speak.

Pennzoil Enginners Q&A Session - SRT Forums - SRT4, SRT6, SRT8, SRT10 & Dodge Forum



You guys are 100% correct.....and I am 100% ill informed! Please forgive me for posting such utter nonsense....& for purchasing & utilizing Pennzoil in my 392. Unfortunately there is no way do totally delete my post. However, I will bring the 2 cases of Pennzoil to my local recycling center first thing in the morning. Again, my apologies....and thank you for helping me make my decision on motor oil....& to leave this Forum. Happy New Year!
 
#19 ·
How do you get scuffing on a roller cam/lifter setup? Who are "they"? I could see this with a regular flat tappet setup, but this doesn't seem plausible with a roller lifter. It would seem if there is scuffing with the roller lifter and cam that the roller isn't rolling over the lobes which would quickly lead to cam wear and failure ultimately. I'm not trying to be a rick, just saying it sounds like a sales pitch someone threw out to move some pennzoil. I am more than willing to listen though if you can explain?
 
#21 ·
I know its not penzoil/mobil one related but i have seen some like amsoil quakerstate and a few others that state the add zinc. I know zinc was more for flat tappet cams but wouldnt that also be benifitial to roller systems as well?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using AutoGuide.Com Free App
 
#22 ·
There is nothing wrong with Pennzoil or any other API certified oil that meets the Chrysler requirements for our cars. (synth or not)

When I used to be a t3ech (20 years ago) for the State Police we used low bid oil no name brands that you never heard of but all were API certified and met GMs specifications. We changed the oil every 5k miles which was about a month or so. The cars life span was 2 years or 120k which ever came first. Working on these cars for 13 years we never had an engine failure due to oil, rather sucked valves (not oils fault) or head gaskets (not oils fault) or low oil and the engine blew.

Today's oil no matter synth or not blows away the oils of yesteryear and if those oils could stand the punishment troopers give those engines, you will never see (ever) an engine related problem caused by todays oil. Use what you want as long as it meets the specs and be happy.

FWIW, I only use Mobil 1 in the SRT8 because 0w40 does not exist other than Mobil 1 and Pennzoil and Pennzoil 0w40 can only be purchased from dealers (in my area) so Mobil 1 wins.
 
#23 ·
Working on these cars for 13 years we never had an engine failure due to oil ... or low oil and the engine blew.
:icon_confused: Interesting take on things, I wonder where the oil went and why. Low oil caused engine failure within 5000 miles of an oil change, that's either a pretty big leak that should've been caught or the engine was burning it due to rings or valve guides. Not sure how you can conclusively say oil wasn't a factor. ;)

Today's oil no matter synth or not blows away the oils of yesteryear and if those oils could stand the punishment troopers give those engines, you will never see (ever) an engine related problem caused by todays oil. Use what you want as long as it meets the specs and be happy.

FWIW, I only use Mobil 1 in the SRT8 because 0w40 does not exist other than Mobil 1 and Pennzoil and Pennzoil 0w40 can only be purchased from dealers (in my area) so Mobil 1 wins.
I agree, proper maintenance with proper fluids and parts is the most important thing you can do for your car, but that doesn't mean there are no advantages to better lubes. There's a reason synthetic oils are called for by the manufacturer, be it for the engine, transmission, or diffs.

ATF+4 is synthetic
Our rear diffs call for synthetic gear oil
SRT vehicles come with synthetic engine oil from the factory

If conventional lubes worked just as well then they wouldn't be specifying synthetics. Fact is, our vehicles see higher internal operating temperatures and in many cases conventional oil would break down and not be able to protect at those temps.

My car gets Mobil 1 in the engine and diff, trans gets whatever ATF+4 is the cheapest since they're all the same.
 
#26 ·
Don't mean to derail the conversation here but 2 quick questions. First the manual says to use 5-40 but you all keep mentioning 0-40, should I be using 0 vs the 5? Car only has 250 miles so plenty of time before first OC. Second, the manual also calls for synthetic oils, are any of you using conventional oils? That doesn't sound right if you are.

Thx
 
#27 ·
The manuals have been revised. Most of us run 0-40 Mobil-1, those that run the Pennzoil are running 5-40. Either meet the warranty requirements. Both the Pennzoil 5-40 and Mobil-1 0-40 are Euro Car Spec Full Synthetics.
 
#29 ·
I called Exxon/Mobil last week and was told as long as the API and the weight meet the requirements it would be fine. As far as the MS-10850 vs. MS-10725 he said it's splitting hairs and not to worry. It does meet the MB 229.3 to 229.5 spec.
MB= Mercedes Benz
MS= Material Standard
 
#33 ·
The Chrysler spec isn't a requirement so no warranty issues. I also don't hold much faith in that spec. Consider plain Pennzoil conventional 5w20 meets the spec but Mobil 1 "doesn't." Would you take that to mean the cheap Pennzoil is a better oil? I wouldn't.

Pennzoil is the factory fill for Chrysler, so the typical oils "have" to meet the spec.

I'll take an ACEA A1/B1 and/or A5/B5 oil over MS-6395 any day of the week. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: wasp392
#34 · (Edited)
I am also a Valvoline Guy. I have have used it for many years. Use to have a Union Oil 76 station in the 70's and 80's. I used Union Oil for years as well... You know racing NASCAR etc.... Well My suburban has used Valvoline Synthetic since new. I just had the gaskets lower and upper replaced. When the dealer took the motor apart they were really amazed at what they saw. The motor looked like brand new. No sludge no discoloration. The Suburban has 260,000 mile on her. I do not drive the suburban lightly. It has a Racing suspension and tires.

I will always use Valvoline Synthetic.
:clap:
 
#39 ·
I'm late to the party on a really long-running thread here... but I just did the second oil change on my '12 392, and it was a fill of Pennzoil Ultra 0w40. I sent in an oil analysis prior to the run, ran the oil until the EVIC told me it was time to change it (5700 miles) and then sent another sample in for analysis. Nothing jumped out except the usual high iron during break-in, and the usual high copper often seen in new engines with an oil cooler.

Overall, the Pennzoil Ultra 0w40 looks a little weak compared to M1 0w40 when it comes to the "old school" anti-wear additives like ZDDP (reflected by the Zn and Phosphorous on the analysis), but it is pretty stable in terms of viscosity. It may have all sorts of new organic antiwear additives that don't show up in a Blackstone analysis, too. The interesting thing to me is that its pretty thin for a 40-weight class oil. Others on the BITOG site are quite certain that 0w40 is one of (if not THE only) Pennzoil Ultra grade that is not yet made using Shell's gas-to-liquid base stocks, so that's another knock against it. Its not as high-tech as their 5w20 in that regard.

Lets just be clear- I'm talking ONLY about the 0w40 grade!

My current fill is Mobil 1 0w40, which technically doesn't meet one of the Chrysler specs. That's been discussed to death in this thread, and my personal take on it is that it WOULD easily meet the spec once the extended field testing is done. I have no worries about wear issues with M1 0w40- its just too proven in all manner of engines that stress their oil more than the 392 does. I might have concerns with deposit formation over time since the 392 does hold its engine oil at a consistent high (but not excessive) temperature of around 220-230F, but since Pennz Ultra 0w40 isn't GTL either, it may have the same issues. M1 is a bit thicker, and also tests more CONSISTENTLY when you compare people that have sent in numerous samples for analysis. The production volume on PU 0w40 is probably ridiculously low, since SRT owners are about the only market for it.

This is all just my opinion based on my research of various analyses and discussions, but frankly at the moment I do prefer M1 0w40 despite the Chrysler spec it "doesn't meet" formally.

Here's a link to my before-and-after oil analyses, including a dissection of the oil filter that was run during that interval. Yes, I'm an engineer and a geek. I love this stuff....

2012 SRT-8 (392 Hemi), 5700 miles, PU 0w40, 2ndOCI - Bob Is The Oil Guy
 
#40 ·
This is all just my opinion based on my research of various analyses and discussions, but frankly at the moment I do prefer M1 0w40 despite the Chrysler spec it "doesn't meet" formally.
But but but...it doesn't say to use that type of oil in the owners manual!!! How can you live with yourself???!!! LOL

I've always said that if you can get it when it's on special for 5qts./filter = $30, stock up! Then it's a no-brainer to run the Mobil 1 0W40 in these Hemis. I even do relatively short intervals and don't feel bad because you can get it so cheap. I think the SRT engineers helped develop Mobil1 0W40 back in 2004 or so specifically for the 6.1 Hemi. They always asked people in the chat sessions why they would stray from a good thing when they had so many hours of testing with zero failures. This was back in about 2007 when everyone was going crazy buying up all the old-formula Mobil 1 5W40 Turbo Diesel oil because it still had higher levels Zinc and Phosphorous I think. People sure can get passionate about oil, that's for DAMN sure.
 
#41 ·
Thanks for that info, sounds like you're a bit of a data nerd like me. :D

One thing I think worth noting is that on your UOA that the cSt viscosity @ 100c is 11.25 and your SUS viscosity @ 210F is 63.7. Now, notice on the VOA Blackstone has filled in the "Values should be" boxes for those but left them blank for the UOA.

Why is this worth noting? Because with your UOA those values are basically telling you whether or not the oil is staying in grade or not and, to me, this is a critical quality of the oil being used and tells a lot about how well it holds up and performs.

For both those UOA values your oil has fallen out of grade, both by ACEA standards as well as the standard values listed on your VOA. What I take away from your UOA is that your wear numbers are looking OK for a new engine, but your oil has actually fallen out of grade and no longer performs like an Xw40 should since it's not able to maintain the minimum viscosity.

Blackstone may be OK with the results because the additive package still has life and the oil isn't diluted with fuel, etc but I'm disappointed that they completely overlook the fact that the oil has fallen out of grade.

This is a real-world example of why I prefer oils that meet ACEA standards and why the Chrysler spec is virtually meaningless. Pennzoil 0w40 SRT doesn't claim to be an ACEA A1/B1,A5/B5 oil and, based on these results, it wouldn't be able to anyway because it doesn't say in grade. :(
 
#43 ·
For both those UOA values your oil has fallen out of grade, both by ACEA standards as well as the standard values listed on your VOA. What I take away from your UOA is that your wear numbers are looking OK for a new engine, but your oil has actually fallen out of grade and no longer performs like an Xw40 should since it's not able to maintain the minimum viscosity.

You nailed it. PU 0w40 is a thin 40 to start with, and when used ACCORDING TO THE OIL LIFE MONITOR it dropped out of grade. As someone else on the oil site pointed out, a whole lot of 0w40 oils do the same thing, and granted, these engines would be fine most of the time on a 20-weight like the 5.7 is. The spec of a 40 is really for the more extreme situations SRT drivers are expected to apply to their cars ;-) They're simple engines, sliding contact has been eliminated with roller cam followers, so they're not exactly hard on oil the way my old 440 big-blocks are. But the point is that, at least until Shell brings the 0w40 grade in-line with the Pennzoil Ultra 5w30, 5w20, and other grades that use GTL base-stocks, it really doesn't make a strong showing against M1 as far as I can tell. If they do move it to GTL base oil, the lower volatility alone might make it worth using for a cleaner PCV system.

The spec thing is annoying. Yes, its probably a "good" spec to hold oils to, lower volatility, lower deposit formations, etc. etc. etc. Yes, Shell and Chrysler are "partnered" in advertizing and have a contract for Shell to supply the factory fill oil . But it seems like they cooked up the methods to meet that spec for Shell more than for the benefit of the engine.

I'm not a fan-boy of either Shell or ExxonMobil oils- I use both in different vehicles. This is really just about figuring out what's going on with the 0w40 grades between two very good oils- either would do the job, I'm just geeky enough to want to know which one has the edge.
 
#42 ·
The only reason why Chrysler is using Penzoil Ultra is $$$. They got a better deal from them so they booted M1.

Call me crazy but when I got my first oil change at 1K in 2010 it was free from my dealer. As I was driving it home, it just didn't feel the same. Call me nuts but that's what I felt. So I called the dealer and asked them what oil they used and they told me Penzoil 5/40. I promptly took the car back the same day and paid to have that crap taken out and had them put in M1 0/40. I waited to take it home and the car felt like it did originally.

Call me crazy.. :notallthere: :scratchhead:

If M1 is good enough for Benz and BMW, it's good enough for me.. :thanks:
 
  • Like
Reactions: wasp392
#45 ·
Guys over on lxforums rave about Shell Rotella from time to time. I think they make a 5w40.
 
#47 ·
Yeah, the Rotella T6 5w40 is a synthetic diesel oil which I used in my Cummins Ram as well as the '68 Cougar I used to have, it is a great oil for the money BUT it doesn't meet any of the current gas oil specs/requirements. Doesn't meet GF-5, ACEA A1/B1, etc. If you have and value your warranty then I wouldn't use it simply for that reason, nothing against the oil itself.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top