Collapsed lifters on 2014??? [Archive] - Dodge Challenger Forum: Challenger & SRT8 Forums

: Collapsed lifters on 2014???


J Willis R/T13
01-20-2014, 02:44 PM
I started the thread Hemi Tick back in 2012 that chronicled my issues with my 2013 Challenger R/T starting with a very loud tick that resulted in a head swap. Then after several months passed, I needed reverse rebuilt in the 6 speed. At 14,000 or so miles and approximately 10 months into ownership, the tick started again and the dealer deemed it necessary to change the short block. At this point my wife refused to drive her baby anymore. I understand this is a Challenger site but we are now the owners of a 2014 Charger R/T.

All that being said, my wife cranked her 3 month old baby yesterday afternoon and the loud obnoxious ticking noise started again for about 3 seconds and quit. The car sat for approximately 18-20 hours since the last time we drove it but it sounded as if the lifters leaked down while sitting there. I spoke to an acquaintance at my local dealership and he said the shop foreman said it was a design flaw. I have never had a car with hydrologic lifter leak down in a day. Please let me know if others out there are having this problem or am I just this unlucky.

Yellow Jacket 2012
01-21-2014, 10:26 AM
Any chance it's a bad oil filter and the anti drain back seal leaked? I'd try a new filter and see if it happens again.

stevewhiteparts
01-21-2014, 10:44 AM
we have seen some lifter issues, not on a 14 but certainlty on 11 and 12's
Luke

WXman
01-21-2014, 11:24 AM
First thing I would do is scrap the 20 weight oil and go to a 30 (or perhaps 0W40 if you live in a warm climate). Seriously...on these newer engines I've seen horrible valvetrain noise go away with better oil. Would be something cheap to try first. Unfortunately, my dad wasted $1,500 before he figured that out.

Yahooligan
01-21-2014, 11:52 AM
First thing I would do is scrap the 20 weight oil and go to a 30 (or perhaps 0W40 if you live in a warm climate). Seriously...on these newer engines I've seen horrible valvetrain noise go away with better oil. Would be something cheap to try first. Unfortunately, my dad wasted $1,500 before he figured that out.

Xw30 or Xw40 on a 5.7L with MDS is a sure fire way to cause problems and set codes.

OP would be better off trying Mobil 1 5w20, that seems to help a number of folks with the tick. I've run Mobil 1 5w20 since about 1,200 miles and have no tick.

There's also nothing wrong with Xw20 oil and there's nothing that says a thicker oil is a better oil. These engines were engineered for the specific oil flow properties provided by the Xw20 oil. The 6.4L, while based on the 5.7L, does not share the same lubrication parts. Different oil pump, different lifters, different MDS solenoid, etc.

Xw20 has been around for long enough to prove itself, Xw30 had the same reception when it became the norm, everyone was used to Xw40 and thought Xw30 was too thin and would cause damage and short engine life.

J Willis R/T13
01-21-2014, 01:50 PM
I'm gonna wait and see what happens. It only did it once so far so maybe it won't happen again. I hope I don't go through the same thing like my Challenger.

diver88
01-21-2014, 02:06 PM
@Luke..

sometime when I start my car with the remote starter I get almost a sound like slapping two 2x4's together the second it fires up and the lifter(s) are tapping loudly and if left running it will quieten down after 20-30 seconds. if I cut it off immediately and restart it no lifter tap or anything. happens maybe 1 in 10 times I start it, sound goofy or does it sound like it makes sense? 2075 miles, original oil.. year old April 19th of this year.

I was hoping after I got to 3K miles and changed the oil to Mobil 1 that would all subside, she runs fine BTW.

J Willis R/T13
01-21-2014, 02:19 PM
My challenger did basically the same thing. It is now sitting behind the dealership waiting on its 2nd engine.

WXman
01-22-2014, 04:29 AM
Xw30 or Xw40 on a 5.7L with MDS is a sure fire way to cause problems and set codes.

OP would be better off trying Mobil 1 5w20, that seems to help a number of folks with the tick. I've run Mobil 1 5w20 since about 1,200 miles and have no tick.

There's also nothing wrong with Xw20 oil and there's nothing that says a thicker oil is a better oil. These engines were engineered for the specific oil flow properties provided by the Xw20 oil. The 6.4L, while based on the 5.7L, does not share the same lubrication parts. Different oil pump, different lifters, different MDS solenoid, etc.

Xw20 has been around for long enough to prove itself, Xw30 had the same reception when it became the norm, everyone was used to Xw40 and thought Xw30 was too thin and would cause damage and short engine life.


This is one of those things we'll have to just agree to disagree on. Even Chrysler has noticed that 5W20 isn't the perfect oil and they've started adding "5W30 is acceptable" to the owner's manuals again now. Mechanics will tell you (and have told me already) that there is a lot of success with heavier oils in these engines. Chrysler, Ford, GM are using watery oil for CAFE numbers...not for longevity or the perfect properties.

If the OP have valvetrain noise, it's my experience that he should try better oil first because it's often times a cheap way to solve the problems. If he's got serious top-end trouble then obviously it won't cure it.

Flat Top
01-22-2014, 05:17 AM
You would think,,, there would be NO noise on a new car using the oil it came with. Mine new didnt tick or rattle and at 40,000
Rebuilt into a stroker motor and it still dont tick or rattle ?????? 12.5 X 40 wt oil
FlatTop

MDS deleted, mechanically

Wifes Acura MDX has noise at start up from new to now at 20k

SRT8Tech
01-22-2014, 05:34 AM
Just to add to this.....I don't care what Chrysler has said about 5w30 being acceptable in the MDS 5.7L.....I have seen codes thrown for the MDS system with 5w30 oil. Just sayin.

J Willis R/T13
01-22-2014, 06:08 AM
The sticky oil filter theory is extremely feasible and I hope that is my fix. I will be swapping to Mobil 1on my next oil change and I always use a Wix filter. I used Mobil 1 5w30 in my Challenger when it died. The dealer claimed there was an oil passage not machined properly and the right side head was starving for oil. Once the engine temp warmed up and the oil thinned out the tick would go away. The Challenger actually received its new short block but is still parked because the new block is believed to have some rings aligned causing excessive smoking.

USRWDV8
01-22-2014, 09:45 AM
This is one of those things we'll have to just agree to disagree on. Even Chrysler has noticed that 5W20 isn't the perfect oil and they've started adding "5W30 is acceptable" to the owner's manuals again now.
Do you have a source? I looked for that info and only found this for the 3.6, and they make it sound like it's less than ideal (2014 manual p.439):
NOTE:
MOPAR® SAE 5W-30 engine oil approved to Chrysler Material Standard MS-6395 such as Pennzoil®, Shell Helix® or equivalent may be used when SAE 5W-20 engine oil meeting MS-6395 is not available.


I'm not using the MDS and am interested in mitigating the tick (it's pretty noisy, but hopefully it's not an impending failure). Oil viscosity does sound like something to investigate and I'm tempted to try 5W30. I won't use anything not recommended by the factory, though.

Yahooligan
01-22-2014, 09:56 AM
This is one of those things we'll have to just agree to disagree on. Even Chrysler has noticed that 5W20 isn't the perfect oil and they've started adding "5W30 is acceptable" to the owner's manuals again now.

As was mentioned by others, that's only for the 3.6L. If you look at the manual, even for a 2014, it says that using anything other than 5w20 with the 5.7L can cause problems.

Feel free to disagree, just make sure you're not basing your opinion on something you misread. ;)

SlowSRT8
01-22-2014, 10:03 AM
I will reply to this thread now that my new 2014 SRT8 392 M6 is in the shop to have the lifters replaced...

474 miles and 400 of that was from and to the dealership...lol

Metal to metal clatter when cranked up cold and missing like it was running on 4-5 cylinders...

Not good..:(

Dale


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Challengerawi
01-22-2014, 11:18 AM
Ok I'm worried now because I can hear a noise from my 13 RT what sounds like a chain noise! Its coming from the right side of the engine.

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The Chromer
01-22-2014, 11:55 AM
I started the thread Hemi Tick back in 2012 that chronicled my issues with my 2013 Challenger R/T starting with a very loud tick that resulted in a head swap. Then after several months passed, I needed reverse rebuilt in the 6 speed. At 14,000 or so miles and approximately 10 months into ownership, the tick started again and the dealer deemed it necessary to change the short block. At this point my wife refused to drive her baby anymore. I understand this is a Challenger site but we are now the owners of a 2014 Charger R/T.

All that being said, my wife cranked her 3 month old baby yesterday afternoon and the loud obnoxious ticking noise started again for about 3 seconds and quit. The car sat for approximately 18-20 hours since the last time we drove it but it sounded as if the lifters leaked down while sitting there. I spoke to an acquaintance at my local dealership and he said the shop foreman said it was a design flaw. I have never had a car with hydrologic lifter leak down in a day. Please let me know if others out there are having this problem or am I just this unlucky.

That's a shame you gave up the Challenger for the Charger only to have similar problems but then again isn't the 5.7 the same in both cars. I think the way to solve the problem would be a different motor which your only choice is to go to the SRT8 or to another car line which will have its inherent problems also. With the problems with the Challenger documented now a new Charger I'd be looking in other directions, this just doesn't seem normal. I had a very bad experience with a 13 SRT8 after trading in a perfect 2011 RTC 6 speed, the car was a nightmare but I stayed true to the Brand and got rid of the Black SRT8 after 6 months of aggravating issues and bought a 2013 Hemi Orange SRT8 which has been trouble free since picking it up in July. I hope it works out for you, but with it being motor problems I would go a step above your selling dealer and open a case with Chrysler.

USRWDV8
01-22-2014, 12:02 PM
Ok I'm worried now because I can hear a noise from my 13 RT what sounds like a chain noise! Its coming from the right side of the engine.
I've only heard that twice (2013 too) and don't like it any more than the Hemi tick, but I refuse to live in fear. If it breaks, it breaks and I'll deal with it then. Waiting for Dodge to make an official announcement about the TC.
FWIW, my old Crown Vic let out a chain rattle every time I got on it real hard and it was over 110K when I let it go. Always drove that car pedal to the metal and it never blew. Annoying as hell, though.

J Willis R/T13
01-22-2014, 01:56 PM
That's a shame you gave up the Challenger for the Charger only to have similar problems but then again isn't the 5.7 the same in both cars. I think the way to solve the problem would be a different motor which your only choice is to go to the SRT8 or to another car line which will have its inherent problems also. With the problems with the Challenger documented now a new Charger I'd be looking in other directions, this just doesn't seem normal. I had a very bad experience with a 13 SRT8 after trading in a perfect 2011 RTC 6 speed, the car was a nightmare but I stayed true to the Brand and got rid of the Black SRT8 after 6 months of aggravating issues and bought a 2013 Hemi Orange SRT8 which has been trouble free since picking it up in July. I hope it works out for you, but with it being motor problems I would go a step above your selling dealer and open a case with Chrysler.

I have only heard the lifters making noise once on this car so it may have been the filter allowing the oil to leak down. When the Charger made the noise it had been sitting for 18-20 hours without being cranked. I parked it for almost 24 hours and no noise was heard. The only thing I like about the Challenger over the Charger is the body, the manual tranny and the 3.92 gears. The Charger suite our needs better with 2 teenagers in the backseat.

J Willis R/T13
01-22-2014, 02:02 PM
I have read several places using 5w30 will not allow the MDS to work probably. I used Mobil 1 5w30 in my Challenger since 6speed cars don't have MDS and it worked fine. Of course a month after that is when I found out my engine was doomed. I will we switching to Mobil 1 on my next oil change but not sure which viscosity as of now.

Yahooligan
01-22-2014, 02:14 PM
I have read several places using 5w30 will not allow the MDS to work probably. I used Mobil 1 5w30 in my Challenger since 6speed cars don't have MDS and it worked fine. Of course a month after that is when I found out my engine was doomed. I will we switching to Mobil 1 on my next oil change but not sure which viscosity as of now.

I wouldn't think 5w30 would cause any issues with VCT/VVT, which the non-MDS 5.7 and 6.4 have, so I'd be surprised if the oil was at fault. That said, VCT/VVT is hydraulically-actuated so if not operating properly then I suppose it's possible something could happen to the lifters but I don't know.

The lifters are the same for the 5.7 and 6.4, so they're fine with whatever viscosity oil is called for, be it 5w20 or 0w40.

Hope you get it fixed once and for all!

SlowSRT8
01-23-2014, 06:19 PM
Update on mine...
Lifters failed in cylinders 5&7.
No lifter bore damage to the block and cam is fine. Should have the repairs finished up tomorrow. I'm glad I have a good dealership to work with in my area. ;)
Talked to Missy at SRT today and the lifters are being sent in to them to see if they can determine why they failed.

Dale


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stevec3201
01-24-2014, 02:39 AM
Update on mine...
Lifters failed in cylinders 5&7.
No lifter bore damage to the block and cam is fine. Should have the repairs finished up tomorrow. I'm glad I have a good dealership to work with in my area. ;)
Talked to Missy at SRT today and the lifters are being sent in to them to see if they can determine why they failed.

Dale


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Glad it's getting fixed. Did the engine show any problems while under load? Mine is pretty "ticky" too, but under load it sounds and performs excellent. I change the oil every 3K miles. Mob 1.

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SlowSRT8
01-25-2014, 02:24 PM
Glad it's getting fixed. Did the engine show any problems while under load? Mine is pretty "ticky" too, but under load it sounds and performs excellent. I change the oil every 3K miles. Mob 1.

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Yes it showed problems under load and at idle. It ran like it was running on 4-5 cylinders. Sounded like an old singer sewing machine but louder...lol
Picked the car up today and drove it back home about 200 miles and seems to be running ok but you can still here a lite ticking under load on the highway.

I am going to drive it a few days and see if I can still hear anything.
If so I will fix it all in June-July when I tear the engine down to install the pistons and rods. That is if David Weber ever gives me a price on them..lol


Dale


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SlowSRT8
03-20-2014, 11:02 AM
Well mine is back in the shop one more time....about 8xx miles on it now.....

This is the third time. The 2010 SRT8 never had these kind of issues...lol

I think the 2014 SRT8 hates me..

Maybe I should have drive it like I was 18 years old again and just beat the h... Out of it!! Lol

Dale


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Moonblink
03-21-2014, 12:29 PM
Contact Dodge customer support and request that a case be opened regarding your issue. I was have all kinds of problems with my brand new 2013 Challenger. I wont bore you with all the details but after I get dodge involved the dealer started handling my issues with more care.


1. CEL code pointed at transmission 500 miles old.
2. CEL same problem 700 miles old (replaced throttle body inside tranny)
3. Drive shaft shaking violently from day one progressive getting worse
4. Dealer said drive shaft bolts loose and never were torqued at the factory and just re-tighten them.
5. Sharking get even worse
6. Dealer blames it on my aftermarket exhaust.
7. I pitch a fit
8. I get the general manager involved
9. he freaks out
10. A new drive shaft, bearings, and one use blots were ordered..... wait what?!?!? one time use bolts? You mean the same ones you just re-tightened last time?
11. I pitch another fit
12. The general manager makes sure everything is done correctly
13. So far so good.
14. knock on wood.


The Dealer could care less about your problem. Get Dodge involved, pitch a fit in a professional and calm way, post your problems on social media, facebook, twitter, write your own blog, and tell them about it.

I told them that I was a professional reviewer and get paid to write technology reviews.... That made them shit.