Hi all,

I'm pretty sure I may have posted on this site a long time ago in the 2008 SRT section. At that time I was planning on buying a new SRT. Funny how life can get in the way some times eh?:p

Anyway, I just sold off my 87 Porsche 930 and that gave me a little cash to look around for a decent muscle car. I've always wanted a Challenger but never could afford it. I stumbled on this. What he's asking for this car is rediculously low since it is a 73 R/T clone with a 440 transplant. I'm not saying till it's in my garage. :D

http://www.alliedtechnologysystems.com/pics/chally1.jpg

http://www.alliedtechnologysystems.com/pics/chally2.jpg

http://www.alliedtechnologysystems.com/pics/chally3.jpg

I'll be the first to admit that I know very little about muscle cars. Especially Mopars. Now the gentleman that owns the car says the car was originally a 318 car and the previous owner was attempting to sqeeze whatever he could out of the 318. This guy said he had acquired a 440, trans, driveshaft and rear end from a '71 Challenger that was parked and was hit from behind thus totalling the '71. The guy seems really honest and straight forward. In my 44 years on this planet I'm pretty good at detecting when someone is trying to BS me.

So, I noticed elsewhere in this forum that Dodge didn't offer a 440 option on '71 cars. Is that correct? Could it be that this guy may have his years crossed? How can I tell if the motor, trans and rear end are a matched set as he claims? Is there a way to tell what year they were manufactured?

Also, what is an 8 3/4 Sure-Grip rear end? Is it junk or is it what would have normally been paired on a '71 440 drive train?

Sorry for so many questions but I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on this car and it can be quite scary when you have little to no clue what you are getting ready to buy. The car is so clean and the seller is so willing to talk about the car that I suppose he could be making an honest mistake about the year Challenger he got the drivetrain from.

Here is his add;

This 1973 Challenger R/T 440 Magnum is a car that Dodge should have produced. 1971 was the last year for factory installed 426 Hemi and 440 6-Pack engines, the last year for the E-body Convertible and there were no factory produced R/T, With all of that being said, this 1973 Challenger was restored as a car that I feel should have been produced by the factory.
With a Hemi & 440 6-Pack Cuda’s and Challengers bringing ever rising prices, it is hard to say what this car will be worth in the future.

Options on the car are the following:
Power Steering
Power Brakes
Black Bucket Seat Interior
Slap Stick Console Automatic Shifter
R/T Side and Hood Stripes
15” rally wheels
1971 440 Magnum 375 HP Non-Numbers Matching motor (Originally a Small Block)
727 Automatic Transmission
8¾ sure-grip rear end w/355:1 ratio

Looks like a good car. I wouldn't worry too much about the year of things. If the engine run good and goes like a raped ape it all you need. The 71 he was talking about probably had multiple engine swaps as well. No way a 6 pack R/T is being parted out now a days. I would be most concerned with the body, previous rust issues? drive trains are cheap. Bodies not so much. The 8 3/4 is the factory rear in your car, probably just swapped pumpkins (gears).

He claims the body has zero bondo and no evidence of rust. He also states that the original factory undercoating is there. Suspension has been gone through, interior and headliner have been pretty much replaced except for the rear seat which he says looks like it was never used.

Over all the car looks to be clean and that's all I'm really after. I could care less about numbers matching. Been down that road with the Porsche I just sold. Nice car but I couldn't drive it as much as I wanted for fear of racking up the mileage and destroying the resale value. I want something I can take out and abuse on a regular basis. :-) I was just wondering if this is a truck motor cause he says it has 375HP instead of the 390HP of the '70 440 Challenger.

She looks really great. And the price is waaaaaay right! I'll post that when the title is in my hand. You are not going to believe what I paid for this car. For once in my life I appear to have been in the right place at the right time.

I'd say buy it. If there is really no rust and it's restored very nicely, It's probably worth it regardless of the engine.

You can always work the engine (cam, carbs, etc.) if you need more power.

He claims the body has zero bondo and no evidence of rust. He also states that the original factory undercoating is there. Suspension has been gone through, interior and headliner have been pretty much replaced except for the rear seat which he says looks like it was never used.

Over all the car looks to be clean and that's all I'm really after. I could care less about numbers matching. Been down that road with the Porsche I just sold. Nice car but I couldn't drive it as much as I wanted for fear of racking up the mileage and destroying the resale value. I want something I can take out and abuse on a regular basis. :-) I was just wondering if this is a truck motor cause he says it has 375HP instead of the 390HP of the '70 440 Challenger.

She looks really great. And the price is waaaaaay right! I'll post that when the title is in my hand. You are not going to believe what I paid for this car. For once in my life I appear to have been in the right place at the right time.

Barnanimal, timing is everything :stickpoke: it sounds to me that you made the purchase if so congrats if not send me a pm ? :bigthumb: I wouldn't worry about the motor the 440 is strong pulling motor, find out what gears they have installed I assume a 3.91 the 8 3/4 is easy to work on.
PULL THE TRIGGER AND POST SOME PICS :icon_cheers:

It's 3.55 gears. Not too bad I suppose.:icon_confused: Like I said. I'm not a hot rod guy. Been driving imports all my life. It only took 44 years for me to see the light!:)

It's 3.55 gears. Not too bad I suppose.:icon_confused: Like I said. I'm not a hot rod guy. Been driving imports all my life. It only took 44 years for me to see the light!:)

Hey that a good allaround gear enough kick to play on the street but still let you take to the highway and cruise ask the person if they have book or anything to document what has been done and what parts have been put on the car so that if you need to do anything down the road at least you have an idea of what was done and whats in the car. I know from selling my older cars I always give the information to the buyer it helps. :bigthumb:

DOH! Nevermind. CarFax won't see any VIN before 1981. Not enough coffee yet this morning.

The main thing to check is the bottom frame rails.
Also where the firewall meets the frame.
If you don't buy it, I will !

OK, Dodge offered engines all the way from the 225 slant six to the 426 Hemi in the '71 Challenger. Indeed the 440 was offered. To clarify the HP numbers you are questioning, the 440-4bbl. car was rated stock at 375 HP. The 440-6pack was rated stock at 390. I doubt any 440 offered in their truck line was more than 330 HP because of different camshaft profiles and even heads. The truck engines produced probably as much torque because of the hauling/pulling duties they were intended for. If the car is clean, and at a good price, matching numbers or whatnot would be secondary to me.

Jack

OK, Dodge offered engines all the way from the 225 slant six to the 426 Hemi in the '71 Challenger. Indeed the 440 was offered. To clarify the HP numbers you are questioning, the 440-4bbl. car was rated stock at 375 HP. The 440-6pack was rated stock at 390. I doubt any 440 offered in their truck line was more than 330 HP because of different camshaft profiles and even heads. The truck engines produced probably as much torque because of the hauling/pulling duties they were intended for. If the car is clean, and at a good price, matching numbers or whatnot would be secondary to me.

Jack

Cool. Thanks!

It has an Edelbrock 650 CFM carb on it. I suppose that's a four barrel? I took a look at Edlebrock's site but there's not much info on it. Not that a dummy like me can decipher anyway. Is there a better choice for this car? Edelbrock.com - Carburetors & Accessories - Thunder Series AVS® Carburetors (http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/carbs_acc/thunder.shtml)

That '73 had factory Air Conditioning. Looks like a nice clone. Clones give you more bang for the buck and you can do what you want with out worrying about affecting collectors value.....GO GET IT!

That '73 had factory Air Conditioning. Looks like a nice clone. Clones give you more bang for the buck and you can do what you want with out worrying about affecting collectors value.....GO GET IT!

Exactly. All the stars are lining up. It's exactly what I'm looking for. Big block, better than decent condition and I can drive the wheels off of it without worrying about it. The A/C isn't installed but he is including it along with rear air shocks that he took off as well as a brand new factory/OEM guage cluster/panel that has zero miles on it. Installation of the A/C will be a good project. If I can install an A/C system on an '87 Porsche 930 the Challenger should be a piece of cake. The 930 had about 60' of lines that had to be routed back to front, left to right. Talk about a PITA! I'd be a fool to pass it up I think at this point. Trigger pulled! Just waiting on a bill of sale and a copy of the title before I send the funds.

I look forward to hanging around here and appreciate all the insight. Eventually I'd like to squeeze 500+ hp out of her down the road so I'm sure you'll be seeing more of me.

Thanks a bunch fellas! I'm so stoked! Been a long time since I felt like a kid in a candy store. I didn't even feel this good when I bought my 930 6 years ago.

You can do a web search for a tool called decode.exe. It can be used to run the VIN and tell you all about the car as it was stock. Looks decent, if the price is good and body frame is solid I would jump on it if you can?

Bondo is easy to find, use a soft rubber magnet along the body, any place it does not stick is plastic.

8 3/4 is fine for a auto big block, 3.55 is great all around gears too.

Any more pics of her? Inside etc...

You can do a web search for a tool called decode.exe. It can be used to run the VIN and tell you all about the car as it was stock. Looks decent, if the price is good and body frame is solid I would jump on it if you can?

Bondo is easy to find, use a soft rubber magnet along the body, any place it does not stick is plastic.

8 3/4 is fine for a auto big block, 3.55 is great all around gears too.

Any more pics of her? Inside etc...

I'm waiting on more pics. The car is 1100 miles away so a personal inspection is not possible. Even a PPI won't tell me too much unless the mechanic is well educated on '73 Challengers. I may set one up just in case. I can see by the motor compartment that the guy really took care of the car and kept up with maintenence so I have to have a little trust that the guy is being honest. As I've mentioned before he's seems on the up and up and is a real nice guy. I used to sell cars for a living. I can tell when someone is trying to be evasive. He certainly is not. For the price I can accept that I might have some things that need immediate attention.

73's weren't offered with a big block. 340 was the optional mill for the Rallye (A57 package) option otherwise the standard was the 318. Rallye cars didn't get the six banger, it wasn't an option. There were no six pack cars after 72 and very few in that year as the option was discontinued and only a few snuck out of the factory so for all practicle purposes 71 was the last six pack year.

An 8/34 is the right rear end for this car but in 73 they were typically a 323 ratio not 355. It's called a "pumpkin" or "jackpot" and they are easy to swap out as you don't have to pull the whole axle assembly.

The car looks nice but from a purist standpoint he mixed up the graphics: if you want it to look more like a 71 get rid of the gills on the side (these are 73/74 Rallye pieces) or get rid of the 71 side stripes. If you don't care either way that's fine to, just be aware some folks will "snipe" you at a show.

The block should be stamped along the bottom rail with numbers. These can be used to confirm build date of the engine. There are also stamps on the raised pad next to the distributor. If it was an original HP it will usually be stamped as such. There are other stamps for undersize bearings, things like that. The transmission will also be stamped and the two should match if they came out of the same car. Heads are also stamped as are most major components and there are code books available to lay it all out for you.

Assuming the body is solid and the assembly work well done what you have is a nice driver to have fun with. It has no collector value. Aftermarket parts are readily available for these cars but because Challengers are popular the body panels can command a higher price in some instances, but you should have no difficulties with any of the mechanicals.

If you like the car and it's solid buy it and drive it.

73's weren't offered with a big block. 340 was the optional mill for the Rallye (A57 package) option otherwise the standard was the 318. Rallye cars didn't get the six banger, it wasn't an option. There were no six pack cars after 72 and very few in that year as the option was discontinued and only a few snuck out of the factory so for all practicle purposes 71 was the last six pack year.

An 8/34 is the right rear end for this car but in 73 they were typically a 323 ratio not 355. It's called a "pumpkin" or "jackpot" and they are easy to swap out as you don't have to pull the whole axle assembly.

The car looks nice but from a purist standpoint he mixed up the graphics: if you want it to look more like a 71 get rid of the gills on the side (these are 73/74 Rallye pieces) or get rid of the 71 side stripes. If you don't care either way that's fine to, just be aware some folks will "snipe" you at a show.

The block should be stamped along the bottom rail with numbers. These can be used to confirm build date of the engine. There are also stamps on the raised pad next to the distributor. If it was an original HP it will usually be stamped as such. There are other stamps for undersize bearings, things like that. The transmission will also be stamped and the two should match if they came out of the same car. Heads are also stamped as are most major components and there are code books available to lay it all out for you.

Assuming the body is solid and the assembly work well done what you have is a nice driver to have fun with. It has no collector value. Aftermarket parts are readily available for these cars but because Challengers are popular the body panels can command a higher price in some instances, but you should have no difficulties with any of the mechanicals.

If you like the car and it's solid buy it and drive it.

Yup, I'm aware that the purists will snipe me. No big deal to me. I could care less.

This is what he gave me for the motor. Is this a 440HP motor?

B/RB Engine Block Casting Numbers

2536 430 440 RB 66-72

B/RB Mopar Head Casting Numbers
Casting# c.c. Application Intake Exhaust
3462 346 79.5 71 Late Model 383 / 440 2.08" 1.74"

B/RB Intake Manifold Casting Numbers
2951 736 70-71 440 4bbl

Engine Bore Stroke Horsepower Torque Compression Carb

440 ci 4.320 3.750 370/4600 480/3200 9.50:1 1X4

I won a numbers R/T convertible, and never look down at cloned models. You have what you own. Value is much higher on original, but you end up never changing it out. I'd love
to have a standard shift and better brakes, but the car shows so much better with the
original equipment. 440cid can easily be modified for more power, std. 8 3/4" with 3.55
is what I have. Not great on gas, but is a good compromise. Dana better for strip, depends if you're looking for driver. Nice car, I'd put all '71 trim on it along with interior.
Hate seeing '70 models with newer mirrors though. There alot of aftermarket parts coming avaliable, from modern suspensions, trannys,brakes, that could be future projects for your Chally.

Post the first 7 digits of your Vin..

Example.. JH24JOB Is a Challenger, Highend, with a 340 Six Pack.. I owned one, so i memorized it.. LOL.. There will also hopefully be a fender tag on it in the engine compartment with the options listed.. Nice to have..

3.55 gears are way better for cruising than 3.91s.. 3.91's will put you at like 3200 cruising on the interstate at 75.. it's awful.. However, if it's just for the track, they are nice!

I would take it to a body shop to check for bondo.. They use a magnet and some thin paper or plastic to see where it is. There is BONDO on there, trust me, it's just a matter of if it's thick to repair a dent or just to smooth out the sheetmetal for final paint. Metal is never perfect, it always has waves and bondo is the amazing substance to make it look PERFECT... Main place that gets repaired is just behind the rear tires.. Water sits in there and rusts them thru.. Patches are very common there.

You can tell a lot by driving the car.. See if it wanders while you drive.. If it does the Caster is off.. A lot of time these cars sag over time with their unibody and need to be put on a rack and bent back into stock parameters.

Does it pop or make noises under heavy breaking or turns? If not, thats good.. Your bushings are still in fine shape..

On acceleration does it make a thump? Or is it nice an smooth with good pops when floored? Check Tranny Rubber if it's thumping.. They deteriorate over time..

The SureGrip 8-3/4 will get out of tune or wear over the years.. If you notice any type of light harmonic or vibration at certain speeds.. Get it looked it.. They use shims to put them back into stock specs and will cure this problem.

Last thing is I hope it has the Rallye Dash with the Tach on it.. This is the better dash and is what they put on performance Challengers.. The tach is a piece of junk and breaks a lot, but it's nice..

Does it have a slapstick automatic or is it on the Tree? It's supposed to be on the floor for performance..

Good Luck! I never got to own a big block and I hope to own one at some point.

Well, he sent some horrible pics. Low resolution and very grainy. There is rust next to the exhaust on the right side, on the trunk hinge, looked to be rust on the trunk lip on the back side of the weather stripping, the rear seat is not like new but pretty well used.

Hmmm, looks like he is being a little dishonest. I specifically asked if there was any rust at all on the car and I was told, "no!" I asked about the interior and dash and he said it was perfect. The dash has a split in it and the rear seat looks well used. Almost neglected. Then again the pics are crap.

I'm concerned about rust. Where are the biggest rust problem areas on these cars? Window trim, rocker panels, fenders?

I'm thinking about passing this one up since he lied to me. I don't do business with people who lie. It would have been better for him to tell me the truth so I can make a decision. I have not signed a Bill of Sale just yet. He says he'll send better pics and he didn't answer my questions about rust in the last e-mail. Not feeling good on this one unfortunatley. We'll see when the new pics get here if they ever do. He seems to like to take his sweet time.

Please upload the pictures.. We can give you the dirt!

I forgot.. they also rust right behind the hinges on the drivers side.. If you pull the plastic panel off the left side near the brake.. check behind it for where water will leak thru the window.

Also, the pan of the trunk is famous for rust as well as the panel just behind the rear window in the corners...

Rear Quarters as I said before are almost always replaced at some point..

If he's being sneaky then screw it.. Go to your local mopar club and get to know them.. Someone will have something you want there and hopefully they will be dead honest with you. If not, they can help you find what you want. These cars are almost 40 years old, they will not be perfect unless someone does a frame off resto and is a fanatic. If it's been driven, all these problems are going to be there.

Sorry fellas I just backed out. There is a huge split in the dash and there are rust bubbles on the car. If any of you were looking for a deal and were willing to work on the car to get it right here's the link. 1973 Dodge Challenger R/T 440 Magnum For Sale (http://www.oldride.com/classic_cars/685661.html)

I was going to pay about $800.00 less than what he was asking. I'm not going to fool with rust on a car nor am I going to take a chance that the car is ok after he evaded my questions concerning the true condition of the car. These things might not be a big deal to some of you. It is a good price but I'm not in a position right now to take on rust repiars and a new paint job. I've got my eye on a few other cars anyway. None with these issues thus far.

you did the right thing there... That car isn't worth it.. It's not accurate in any way shape or form and is only desirable to someone wants those items on a car.. Resale is awful for that..

Unless your Chip Foose or a car god that can make it flawless..

You should be able to find a 70-71 RT that needs some work for about that much..

Guess the old adage rings true. "If it seems to good to be true it probably is."

I was going to remove the RT decals from the car anyway and get it back to true '73 looks. One other thing I noticed is that the D O D G E emblem is not on the front lip of the hood.

One of these days. Man, I was right there because he told me there was no rust. I just wanted to verify with pics and when he sent bigger better pics the rust was there. Not cool. I almost lost another car that is pristine. It ain't no Mopar but it is nice. I can drop a 396 stroker into it at a later date. I'd rather have a pristine, solid body and chassis over drive train.

Here's a link for those who are interested. Don't kill me. I know it's a Chevy. But, just as the Challengers, Cudas and Chargers were banging the streets in my neighborhood when I was a kid so were these. And they looked just like this too. So, I bought it because it reminds me of the good old days long gone. Classical Gas Motors specializing in the sale and purchase of Classic Cars, Muscle Cars, Streetrod and Special Interest Cars (http://www.classicalgasmotors.com/cars/0879/0879.htm) It's a beautiful car. The entire car has been restored. Underneath as well.

OK, Dodge offered engines all the way from the 225 slant six to the 426 Hemi in the '71 Challenger. Indeed the 440 was offered. To clarify the HP numbers you are questioning, the 440-4bbl. car was rated stock at 375 HP. The 440-6pack was rated stock at 390. I doubt any 440 offered in their truck line was more than 330 HP because of different camshaft profiles and even heads. The truck engines produced probably as much torque because of the hauling/pulling duties they were intended for. If the car is clean, and at a good price, matching numbers or whatnot would be secondary to me.

Jack
The 71 only came as a 6 pack. no 4 barrel

I won a numbers R/T convertible, and never look down at cloned models. You have what you own. Value is much higher on original, but you end up never changing it out. I'd love
to have a standard shift and better brakes, but the car shows so much better with the
original equipment. 440cid can easily be modified for more power, std. 8 3/4" with 3.55
is what I have. Not great on gas, but is a good compromise. Dana better for strip, depends if you're looking for driver. Nice car, I'd put all '71 trim on it along with interior.
Hate seeing '70 models with newer mirrors though. There alot of aftermarket parts coming avaliable, from modern suspensions, trannys,brakes, that could be future projects for your Chally.

Hey Which R/T rag did you win? Not the Pink one from Edmonton was it? Ok read your post. it was not. The pink 70 R/T rag was a 440 6 pack 4 speed 4.10 dana super track pack car Shaker to boot. unbelievable car 1 of 1 without a doubt

Post the first 7 digits of your Vin..

Example.. JH24JOB Is a Challenger, Highend, with a 340 Six Pack.. I owned one, so i memorized it.. LOL.. There will also hopefully be a fender tag on it in the engine compartment with the options listed.. Nice to have..

3.55 gears are way better for cruising than 3.91s.. 3.91's will put you at like 3200 cruising on the interstate at 75.. it's awful.. However, if it's just for the track, they are nice!

I would take it to a body shop to check for bondo.. They use a magnet and some thin paper or plastic to see where it is. There is BONDO on there, trust me, it's just a matter of if it's thick to repair a dent or just to smooth out the sheetmetal for final paint. Metal is never perfect, it always has waves and bondo is the amazing substance to make it look PERFECT... Main place that gets repaired is just behind the rear tires.. Water sits in there and rusts them thru.. Patches are very common there.

You can tell a lot by driving the car.. See if it wanders while you drive.. If it does the Caster is off.. A lot of time these cars sag over time with their unibody and need to be put on a rack and bent back into stock parameters.

Does it pop or make noises under heavy breaking or turns? If not, thats good.. Your bushings are still in fine shape..

On acceleration does it make a thump? Or is it nice an smooth with good pops when floored? Check Tranny Rubber if it's thumping.. They deteriorate over time..

The SureGrip 8-3/4 will get out of tune or wear over the years.. If you notice any type of light harmonic or vibration at certain speeds.. Get it looked it.. They use shims to put them back into stock specs and will cure this problem.

Last thing is I hope it has the Rallye Dash with the Tach on it.. This is the better dash and is what they put on performance Challengers.. The tach is a piece of junk and breaks a lot, but it's nice..

Does it have a slapstick automatic or is it on the Tree? It's supposed to be on the floor for performance..

Good Luck! I never got to own a big block and I hope to own one at some point.

JH23JOB I know you meant to say. I used to memorize the whole vin for my e bodies.

oops.. your right on that one.. JH23.. my fingers get clumsy sometimes!

Yep rust in the rear and trunks rusted out on many I have seen. Sucks we was not honest with you, outside and engine bay looked ok

Ya know a few comments guys!

I am about 50, been building engines did a type 4 VW for my dad when in sucked a valve back in 74, built 100s on engines, own a lot of cars. Most everyone you talk to, and many of you know this are such BSers!

Seems everyone knows someone or had a hemi, 440 6 pack, or they BS and tell you what is in their engine, who did the trans etc. All crap in like 90% of the time!

Only way except pure documented cars is to know the source directly or do it your seld right?

I build all my own engines, trans, dif, suspension etc. Now for our modern stuff, we do have some good vendors here too. But for the most part I bet if you bought that thing and tore that 440 apart and the trans you would see all CRAP parts, done wrong, poor clearnaces out of spec etc.

So that being said, if you can get a ride for a great price and know you need to do a complete go through even if it looks OK on the outside. But you have to start with a decent body and if it cost more decnet interior is a plus too.

Sorry it did not pan out! People suck not all, but most..

Yep rust in the rear and trunks rusted out on many I have seen. Sucks we was not honest with you, outside and engine bay looked ok

I build all my own engines, trans, dif, suspension etc. Now for our modern stuff, we do have some good vendors here too. But for the most part I bet if you bought that thing and tore that 440 apart and the trans you would see all CRAP parts, done wrong, poor clearnaces out of spec etc.

So that being said, if you can get a ride for a great price and know you need to do a complete go through even if it looks OK on the outside. But you have to start with a decent body and if it cost more decnet interior is a plus too.

Sorry it did not pan out! People suck not all, but most..

I agree and that's why I'm going with the Nova. The guy actually powder coated the frame and all suspension pieces during the restoration. That tells me right there that the guy cares about the quality of work on the body and interior. Sure, it has an inferior motor but I would rather have a good chassis, body and interior before a good motor anyday. You get what you pay for if you know what you are looking for.

Get this, this guy waited almost 24 hours before sending a reply this morning after I informed him that i will pass on the car yesterday. His reply was that there is no rust on the car. It's laughable unless he sent me old pics for some reason. Here are a few of the pics. What do you guys think? Rust or not?

Look at the trunk opening lip at the far left of this pic. RUST? Hard to tell but it looks like it to me. At the versy least this area of the car is neglected.
http://www.alliedtechnologysystems.com/pics/rust1.jpg

I suppose that the trunk hinge just has reddish brown paint that somehow found it's way there mysteriously. Not that big of a deal but still.
http://www.alliedtechnologysystems.com/pics/rust2.jpg

RUST on the rear valance just to the right of the exhaust. If that isn't rust I don't know what rust is.
http://www.alliedtechnologysystems.com/pics/rust3.jpg

Deal killer number one. Rust under the surface of the paint on the rocker panel bubbling up ready to pop like a festering boil of money.
http://www.alliedtechnologysystems.com/pics/rust4.jpg

He told me the rear seat was like new and never used. Look at how "UNUSED" the rear seat really is.
http://www.alliedtechnologysystems.com/pics/rust5.jpg

Deal Killer number 2. Huge split across the dash and smaller split just to the right near the speaker. He certainly didn't volunteer that when I asked him about the dash and the interior. He left me to figure it out on my own.
http://www.alliedtechnologysystems.com/pics/rust6.jpg

I know that many here might look at the price of this car and see something they can work with. I can't right now. I don't think it is a hugely bad car but it does need work. Is the price he asking fair for what it is? To me no but maybe someone here that knows how to do the work might think so. If I were a bodywork/painter guy I would probably jump on it and save a ton of money. For me though it would cost me another 15k to have someone else fix the emerging rust issues.

I'd personally be willing to pay him 13K cash tomorrow for the car, delivered. Not a penny more. It is an unrestored, incorrect daily driver that needs work.

yeah.. I agree with Tracknoob.. it probably needs about 10g in paint and body +mechanical.

That rusted hinge shows that it rusted thru that back panel behind the window.. This is very normal area.. I would love to see what that paint is really covering up.. What I find kind of disturbing is his pictures make the car look almost pink and in other pictures it is red.