Dodge & the Dodge Challenger come 2013. Where will they be? [Archive] - Dodge Challenger Forum: Challenger & SRT8 Forums

: Dodge & the Dodge Challenger come 2013. Where will they be?


DODGE HOLIDAY
02-27-2011, 08:00 PM
Okay. I tried to get someone else to start this thread a couple of times. No takers it seems. Let me see if I can write this simple enough for everyone to understand including myself. Where's my Webster's Dictionary?

The purpose of this thread is to use it as a time capsule of sorts. We'll be able to look back on this thread almost 2-years from today, and use the comments to see who had the most insight and wisdom into what would happen specificially 2-years down the road.

The hard question is as follows: Where will Dodge, the Dodge Challenger, our fuel situation, and this country be come January 2013?

Look into your imaginary crystal ball and put down in as many words as you like on what you visualize. This is NOT a debate thread so please only one observation post! If you don't agree with someone's thoughts you can chastise them for it in 2-years :) .

"The state of the USA economy (including Canada's) in the next couple of years will play a big part on whether or not musclecars will continue to be produced. Fuel costs will be a significant part of the equation. Reading through other posts on this forum, some say the Challenger will be here for years to come. Others say it won't."

What you say?

itzrick
02-27-2011, 08:06 PM
The US goverment has tried for years to kill the fun cars. I think in 2 years they will finally get their way and all cars will suck.

dodgeboy90501
02-27-2011, 08:12 PM
My prediction is that the Challenger will be around for MY2013, but might not be around for 2014 as it is not slated to go past this point. As per Chrysler's 5 year plan.

Jiu Jitsu Jon
02-27-2011, 08:30 PM
There will still be musclecars, the majority of cars made by all manufacturers are not powerful V-8s, they are 4 and 6 cylinder cars. The big 3 don't sell tons of their of their most powerful models, those are a small percentage and barely affect their CAFE ratings.

CodeBlue
02-27-2011, 09:51 PM
I think that the car will still be around, and it will offer the same trims as those that are currently offered (V6, RT, SRT). They may do some tweaking for each model year but it will still be around.

Rpaulg87
02-27-2011, 09:56 PM
If I recall, the bill or w\e dosen't effect current model cars....only newer design cars....all the "new" designs or "refreshes" have to meet the new EPA standards...I could be wrong though, but that's what I remember, so the Challenger wouldn't technically be effected, but naturally no one is going to want it if Obama makes gas 5$ a gallon, we're going to have a mad max on our hands with post apocalyptic bad ass muscle cars if this guy continues :O, so silly to "force" a nation based on freedom to change, the government was never supposed to have this much impact on this crap.

AK907
02-28-2011, 12:16 AM
H2 or more commonly known as Hydrogen. Green Power GWE :)

MoparOhio
02-28-2011, 04:13 AM
For 2013 I believe the Challenger will still be around. I think in the future if gas prices continue to stay high and the CAFE numbers get more stringent Chrysler might just offer a twin turbo V6 and not V8s. After 2014 MY it is anyones guess. Sales will probably be the determining factor.

huggytree
02-28-2011, 04:17 AM
2013 will be the final year for the Challenger

gas will be $6 a gallon

the last 2011 IE will be delivered to the person who ordered it in Sept 2010

the economy will be the same (9% unemployment)

Rpaulg87
02-28-2011, 05:35 AM
2013 will be the final year for the Challenger

gas will be $6 a gallon

the last 2011 IE will be delivered to the person who ordered it in Sept 2010

the economy will be the same (9% unemployment)
So how was your trip to the future and back with Dr. Brown in the Delorean? Did you see some serious **** when you hit 88?

Desertdawg
02-28-2011, 05:37 AM
The Challenger is a timeless design. The only thing Dodge needs to do to keep it viable is shed about 500 lbs. For this day and age its just a heavy car.

DODGE HOLIDAY
02-28-2011, 06:00 AM
Call me doom & gloom but this is how I view the next 2-years. Regular unleaded fuel hits $5.00 a gallon the summer of 2011 and stays there until 2012 where it climbs to $6.99. Remains in this area through January 2013. Premium goes from $5.85 in 2011 to $7.85 by 2012. All gas guzzler cars including the big engine Challengers languish on dealer lots beginning with 2012 models. By 2013 the only thing selling anywhere is small-engine fuel-efficient models and even they're having a hard time due to the worsening economy. The middle east situation is much more intense than 2011. By 2013 Dodge axes the Challenger and Chevrolet cuts the Camaro. Only Ford is bold enough to continue building the Mustang 'though in new 4-cylinder models only.

Mark052
02-28-2011, 07:25 AM
Call me doom & gloom but this is how I view the next 2-years. Regular unleaded fuel hits $5.00 a gallon the summer of 2011 and stays there until 2012 where it climbs to $6.99. Remains in this area through January 2013. Premium goes from $5.85 in 2011 to $7.85 by 2012. All gas guzzler cars including the big engine Challengers languish on dealer lots beginning with 2012 models. By 2013 the only thing selling anywhere is small-engine fuel-efficient models and even they're having a hard time due to the worsening economy. The middle east situation is much more intense than 2011. By 2013 Dodge axes the Challenger and Chevrolet cuts the Camaro. Only Ford is bold enough to continue building the Mustang 'though in new 4-cylinder models only.

Mustang as a 4 cylinder car.......reminds me of the early and mid 80's. History may repeat itself once again. Though if I recall, the 4 cylinder SVO performance wasn't too shabby for the time period.:thumbsup: I can still remember the 4 cylinder turbo going vroooom, vrooom, LOL:jester:

My prediction** for the Challenger is that it will end production by 2014. If it were to survive beyond that, it definitely would need to lose weight, but then it would most likely need to be built on a different platform. So Chrysler/Fiat would have to develop a new platform for it (doubtful due to $$) or downsize/restyle it onto a current one. If they did that, then it wouldn't be the same Challenger (in name only, remember the small sized Charger and Challenger from the 80's?):disgust: It's pretty much a niche car that will be killed off for money reasons: fuel prices+limited sales+lack of R&D $$ invested.
The new Chrysler/Fiat needs to survive on more fuel efficient/alternative fuel cars that appeal to the masses, not a niche market. Like they say "Follow the money". Though a 6 cylinder turbo could be a game changer.:browsmiley:

**I've been known to be wrong more times than I care to remember, LOL

JonW
02-28-2011, 08:13 AM
Most car manufacturers take 5 to 6 years to amortize the cost of their expenses for a new car. That puts the Challenger at the end of it's run in 2013 or 2014. This is not a high-volume car, so I don't anticipate many changes between now and the end of the run. Maybe a few tweaks here and there, especially if something can be done to shave weight and/or improve fuel economy. One salvation we have is that Dodge can spread any tooling costs for new drivetrain components over the entire LX line and maybe over into the Jeep line as well. That bodes well for more fuel efficient engines and transmissions. Sheet metal will not change during the Challenger's model run.

My prediction: in 2014 gas will be $6.00 a gallon. 93 octane will be gone. All but the most exotic performance cars will be tuned for 87 or maybe 89 octane. The Feds will mandate CAFE at 42 MPG or higher. Turbo V6s will be much more mainstream. V8-powered performance cars will be rare as manufacturers scramble to meet the new CAFE requirements. Future performance cars will not include a V8 in product planning, except in the case of very high end cars such as the top-tier Corvettes. The merger with Chrysler and Fiat will not prove to add a huge amount of profit to Chrysler's bottom line, and given that younger buyers have already shunned 2-door cars, Dodge will not be able to make a case for a new Challenger. The nameplate will be dropped.

BPAG
02-28-2011, 08:43 AM
If the Mayan's are correct, we won't have to worry about anything on January 2013.

troyus
02-28-2011, 08:59 AM
My guess is the Challenger is replaced with a 'cuda which will be more in line with the design brief of the new Mustang.

runner2go
02-28-2011, 10:00 AM
H2 or more commonly known as Hydrogen. Green Power GWE :)
What is the #1 Green House catalyst... http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shruggy.gif
CO2 = nope :disgust:
Methane = nope :disgust:
Water Vapor = Ding Ding Ding... We have a Winner!!!! http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/boogie.gif



If they were really convinced we were all going to die from global warming... they would NOT be promoting a way to spew more water vapor into the atmosphere. But alas we all know it has nothing to do with actual destruction... and everything to do with POWER.

1BAD383
02-28-2011, 10:04 AM
I think that the Challenger will be a 5 year run which will make the 2012 Challengers the last ones. Just like the Challengers from 1970 thru 1974. A 5 year run.

SRT8Tech
02-28-2011, 10:15 AM
Challenger will be gone in 2012 possibly to 2013. I started a thread a while back about an SRT engineer stating that the Challenger will stop production in a few years. Who knows what will take its place, CUDA, very slight possibility but who knows what the hell this company is thinking. Im hearing of a "MOPAR 11" car now and what was that roller skate Fiat Mopar 10 looking thing?? They are lost and dont know what to do. :) If they make a "Mopar 11" it sure will piss the people off that got the Mopar 10s because they were supposed to be a limited car. Making a Mopar 11 will just kill that whole idea. So, in the end, I still think the Challenger will be gone in a few years. Is that a bad thing for us, naahhhh, just makes us guys that have a Challenger have something a bit more rare.

gman123
02-28-2011, 10:41 AM
In 2013, no telling what's in store....
My thoughts, a V6 version and will have some weight shed off.

By then, they should be able to squeeze quite a bit of HP out of a V6.
My wife's G37 couple pushes out 328HP.

I don't foresee Chrysler repeating what they did to the Challenger in 1978-1983.

On the plus side, the MPG will be better.
On the downside, we would miss the torque found from a nice HEMI V8.

cannonballcobb
02-28-2011, 10:59 AM
Here she is, all new for 2013.
http://www.adclassix.com/images/78dodgechallengergtcoupe.jpg

2ndgen
02-28-2011, 11:21 AM
Here she is, all new for 2013.


Yep. 29/40 MPG. Not bad. Just fugly. :)

Why have we gone so far backwards in MPG since then?

My guess for 2013, assuming there are no major world-changing events before then, things will remain pretty much the same as they are going now.
- gas will probably hit $5, then dip back down to a "low" $4. (They do this to ease the consumers into it.)
- the private central bank is printing money--minimum wage will *have* to go up w/the inflation, a $40k car loan will become cheaper to pay back
- food prices go up with oil prices--all the agriculture is dependent on gas: milk may hit $4/gal
- Dodge (w/Ralph Gilles) will continue the Challenger, even if the exact same as 2011MY, and even if it means relegating to Viper sales numbers and hiking the price. At least it shares a production line w/two other models as opposed to the Viper, so I don't think it's in danger of getting cancelled unless the 300 and Charger also get cancelled.

TB3
02-28-2011, 02:22 PM
Here she is, all new for 2013.
http://www.adclassix.com/images/78dodgechallengergtcoupe.jpg

Ow!! Just snorted beer out my nose on this one... Unfortunately I Had to live thought this the first time.

gman123
02-28-2011, 02:34 PM
check this out.
http://www.productioncars.com/send_file.php/ad_dodge_challenger_1980_black_silver.jpg

Torred Chally Man
02-28-2011, 02:45 PM
The Challenger will be smaller and lighter. Twin turbo v-6's and regular v-6's will power them. Sergio Marchione will buy a suit.

Justinivor
02-28-2011, 02:45 PM
I 2nd what 2ndgen wrote,

The Challenger is not a top seller, but they're not slouching, and have a shared platform. Supercharging a V6 is a big investment for Chrysler, they don't have one, so it'll take a few years before engineers are confident enough to convince management to pull the trigger and phase out the Hemi's. The later also has to overcome consumer love for the big engine since that is what really sells the car.

Gas can only sell at what the market will allow, given that we have a pretty hefty supply, regardless what the "peak-oil" alarmists say. $7 gas is not viable, demand will plummet, and losing profit will keep prices in the same cycle of up a $1 a year, then down half, and so on, just enough to keep up with mpg creep.

smitman
02-28-2011, 02:54 PM
For 2013 Dodge will have a Trans Am model for the Challenger/Cuda, along with a supercharged 392 to go against The ZL-1, and the GT 500. Possibly about 625 HP. The Cuda will be based on the Challenger platform, only with new sheetmetal. Can't wait.....

waumo
02-28-2011, 02:54 PM
There will be an IE or FE 426 Challenger and if I'm not dead, I will have one.

homerzeppelin
02-28-2011, 04:42 PM
Inflation starts rearing its head, and we're all making more money and spending more money, so the $4.50 a gallon doesn't seem too bad.

The Challenger is still around and has nearly identical interior to the Charger and 300, but now it is:
SE = Pentistar w/ multiair @ 320HP $29,000 base price and 32 MPG with the 8 speed auto.
R/T = turbo (twin?) Pentistar with the multiair @ 400+HP and 28MPG with the 8 speed auto or 6 speed manual @ $33,000 base price
SRT = 426 HEMI @ 540HP and 22 MPG with 5 speed or 6 speed auto @ $60,000 base price

They will announce that it is the last year for the Challenger and they will sell like hot cakes. They will have special editions like the "Daytona" Chargers, with runs of many high impact colors.

The next year, we'll see a surprise...The Challenger may have been killed...but a very familiar car emerges...the Cuda based of the same platform...slightly different body panels (retro styled...not the imaginary futuristic retro camaro style), with a very Cuda Hood, front fascia and grill, and rear end.

cannonballcobb
02-28-2011, 04:49 PM
and we're all making more money

Oh man, I sure hope you're right...:indifferent:

homerzeppelin
02-28-2011, 04:59 PM
Oh man, I sure hope you're right...:indifferent:

Well, at an average :cowtounge:

Justinec101
02-28-2011, 06:09 PM
2013:

I will actually have a Challenger.

Gas will be in the $3.00 - $4.00 range.

The 2013 Challenger will be the last year for the current design. It will have an 8 speed automatic. It will have LED tail lights like the Charger. The V6 will be making 325hp and get better gas mileage. There will be a Challenger with the 2013 Viper engine, whatever that may be. The R/T will see a boost in HP (possibly for 2012). The SRT may crack 500hp.

The sky will not fall.

Jack09
02-28-2011, 06:18 PM
The Cajun Nostradamus predicts this:

The Challenger will end production in 2013 mid-year
The first year SRT8's (2008) and R/T's (2009) will be coveted
A pound of good boudin will always exceed the cost of a gallon of premium


Jacques

gman123
02-28-2011, 06:54 PM
The Cajun Nostradamus predicts this:

The Challenger will end production in 2013 mid-year
The first year SRT8's (2008) and R/T's (2009) will be coveted
A pound of good boudin will always exceed the cost of a gallon of premium


Jacques

I really like boudin, had the last time that I was in N'awlins for Mardi Gras.
Also enjoy a good king cake :jester:

fupduk2
02-28-2011, 07:07 PM
What is the #1 Green House catalyst... http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shruggy.gif
CO2 = nope :disgust:
Methane = nope :disgust:
Water Vapor = Ding Ding Ding... We have a Winner!!!! http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/boogie.gif



If they were really convinced we were all going to die from global warming... they would NOT be promoting a way to spew more water vapor into the atmosphere. But alas we all know it has nothing to do with actual destruction... and everything to do with POWER.

If you get your water from where they have been fracking for natural gas you'll have the new high octane fuel.

Reach
02-28-2011, 07:31 PM
My predictions:

Chrysler will still owe the US government $$.
Little FIATs will be popular with the "in" crowd and selling well.
A "GRT" edition Challenger will have a turbo V-6 mated to an electric motor producing a combined 400+ horsepower and torque and getting 30 mpg. There's lots of room for batteries in the trunk (though the extra weight will hurt track times).
Unemployment will still be above 7%
Gas will be $3.35 a gallon, after climbing to $4.50 in 2011 and falling to $2.50 in 2012.
Canada will continue to be our biggest and best trading partner.
.
.
.
And I will have my R/T paid off, but will still be deciding on what should be my first mod...

CupnBuckit
02-28-2011, 07:44 PM
I believe the sky is the limit for the folks at Dodge. I believe that the engineers at Chrysler are thinking more why not, instead of why so. The 392 is a real acheivement for Chrysler, because it increases displacement and fuel economy in automatic Challengers. I can see this trend growing in the future.

I can see the modern muscle car going hybrid in the next several years. Why? Battery technology. The achilles heal of the electric car. I believe that Challengers will plug into the wall much like electric vehicles do. This is because the majority of people's daily driving is within 40 miles of their homes. Also perhaps electric technology could help with off-the-line acceleration due to high potentional in the torque arena.

I believe that the majority of modifications in generation 4 hemi's are going to be revolving around increased power and effeciency.

I think the new selling point to the next generation Mopar is exactly what makes up the current selling point of today's Mopar. More effeciency, reliability, and most important... more power.:thumbsup:

JeffsGonePlumCrazy
02-28-2011, 08:13 PM
If you get your water from where they have been fracking for natural gas you'll have the new high octane fuel.
Ha Ha mother frackers they de-gas our mines from the surface, and I have even been around fault areas or slip areas where sand from fracking has worked thru some of the gaps and piled up on the footwall (floor). They are contaminating eveything these days from water to mines lol. Back to the topic tho everybody knows that there wont be a challenger past the year 2012 due to Jesus return in a Rolls Royce Silver Cloud, he will be mad at its poor fuel economy and thus eleminate all big unefficient cars and the challenger will be replaced with the "new for 2013" OMNI it is slated to get a shaker hood the challenger never got and have a 426cc hemi 3 cylinder rated at 42.5HP with a turbo srt-3 to be built in 2014 as a 2013 model rated at 50.0hp. As long as Shelby whores out the GLH name again I dont really care I'd hit it.

noz34me
03-01-2011, 05:55 AM
check this out.
http://www.productioncars.com/send_file.php/ad_dodge_challenger_1980_black_silver.jpg

Exterior is a dog, but it does have FULL ANALOG INSTRUMENTATION!

noz34me
03-01-2011, 05:57 AM
Dodge will most certainly be around at least until 1/3/2014 because that's when my bumper to bumper warranty expires. I'm sure they wouldn't want to disappoint me.

StealthChallenger
03-01-2011, 12:06 PM
"It's the last of the V-8s" - Mad Max

With the Obama administration's moratorium on off shore drilling, and the fact that we are not allowed to explore for oil in Alaska, we will see gas prices hit an all time high. Did you know Alaska would be the eighth largest oil producer in the world if we could drill there? It's our oil. Let's go get it instead of giving money to enemies of the United States in the Middle East. Obama did say he wanted to bankrupt the coal industry, so there you go. Ironically, Government Motors (GM) is pushing the electric Volt, which gets its power from coal burning power plants :) Unfortunately, we are becoming even more dependent on foreign energy sources. The tougher EPA standards based on global warming propaganda do not help the situation and will force automobile manufacturers to downsize cubic inches and come out with more cracker boxes to average out their fleet's mileage. Wasn't it global cooling forty years ago? Over the next five years, we will see a lot of turbo/supercharged four/six cylinder engines hitting the market as well as electric vehicles. The V8 muscle car's days are numbered. We may even see a rebirth of the four banger turbo Mustang SVO if it is still around. By 2020, this liberal utopian vision will have us driving Smart cars, eating celery instead of french fries, and be taxing us even more. Be sure to order your Trabant soon. Happy days are here again!

corn619
03-01-2011, 12:14 PM
2013? They'll still be around granted fuel doesn't skyrocket to unheard of prices. Even if the prices do get crazy it still might around. 2014? Look for the car in the history books.

StealthChallenger
03-01-2011, 12:20 PM
My bumper sticker :)
Google Image Result for http://www.rightreborn.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/green_is_the_new_red_bumper_sticker-p128830723255697866trl0_400.jpg (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.rightreborn.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/green_is_the_new_red_bumper_sticker-p128830723255697866trl0_400.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.rightreborn.com/2009/04/25/green-synonymous-with-communism/&usg=__rCpp7tTGg2M00ZD5kkfGxYNJayA=&h=400&w=400&sz=15&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=kOK5k7ocEDSCWM:&tbnh=155&tbnw=155&ei=5FRtTeCHMoHEcLCA2eIG&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgreen%2Bis%2Bthe%2Bnew%2Bred%2Bsticker%26um%3D1 %26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Den%26biw%3D116 7%26bih%3D611%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=322&oei=5FRtTeCHMoHEcLCA2eIG&page=1&ndsp=17&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0&tx=99&ty=86)

Hal H
03-01-2011, 12:33 PM
Yep. 29/40 MPG. Not bad. Just fugly. :)

Why have we gone so far backwards in MPG since then?

My guess for 2013, assuming there are no major world-changing events before then, things will remain pretty much the same as they are going now.
- gas will probably hit $5, then dip back down to a "low" $4. (They do this to ease the consumers into it.)


The ramp-up in gasoline prices in the early 80s (remember when it broke the $1/gal barrier then? Required new fuel dispenser pumps made the relative price of gasoline higher than what it is today adjusted for inflation.

After that initial rise, consumers gravitated toward smaller cars with 4 and 6cyl power.

As wages rose, the "tolerance" level of gasoline prices by consumers increased, and buyers gravitated toward larger cars and V8 power again.

From the late 80s/early 90s going forward the rise in popularity of SUVs and pickups (and relatively cheap gasoline) the makers focused on larger vehicles, as consumers weren't as focused on MPG ratings as the late 70s/early 80s were. From that point onward, trucks outsell passenger vehicles in sheer quantity...US automakers weren't going to invest the effort in high MPG cars if the buyers went for something else.

Also, today's vehicles carry more safety equipment (multiple airbags) and stiffer body structures and in turn, larger engines to provide performance with all that additional mass to haul around.

Johnman
03-01-2011, 02:56 PM
In 2013, Chrysler will discontinue the gas-guzzling SRT8 model and introduce a new turbocharged 4-cylinder model, the FRT4 (Fiat Racing Technology). The exhaust note will be hilarious.

homerzeppelin
03-01-2011, 03:06 PM
In 2013, Chrysler will discontinue the gas-guzzling SRT8 model and introduce a new turbocharged 4-cylinder model, the FRT4 (Fiat Racing Technology). The exhaust note will be hilarious.

I think it will be Fiat Automotive Racing Technology, or the F.A.R.T.

rumpass
03-01-2011, 03:19 PM
When 2013 rolls around I'll still be waitng for my 2011 GWE 392 that my dealer promised me he was getting in a...... "couple of days."

nyca
03-01-2011, 06:29 PM
Not to get into politics, but the truth is that you won't know which way this is going to go - until after the 2012 US elections.

Working stiff
03-01-2011, 07:17 PM
Hopefully they will end out the Challenger with an SRT-10
Available in any color offered previously, with shaker hood as an option as well
There already putting the V-10 in (it fits? and I don’t believe they would sell enough to affect any emission restrictions the feds come up with,
:bigthumb:
That’s when I sell my 09-srt
Wishful thinking

Heywood
03-01-2011, 09:30 PM
I think it will be Fiat Automotive Racing Technology, or the F.A.R.T.

Fix It Again Tony

2ndgen
03-01-2011, 09:32 PM
Not to get into politics, but the truth is that you won't know which way this is going to go - until after the 2012 US elections.

Since when has an election in a puppet government ever made a difference?
:)

nyca
03-04-2011, 06:19 PM
Because whomever wins the election, controls the EPA. And the EPA essentially controls what kind of cars and trucks can be made and sold.

2ndgen
03-04-2011, 08:27 PM
Okay, in the abstract, yes. Whomever is elected is the public avatar for the myriad backers that put him there and they control via him everything he "controls".

sunger
10-23-2011, 10:12 AM
The baby-boomers will continue to love the big engine muscle, and production will continue through 2014. Gas prices will also continue to rise, but it depends on what party keeps or takes control of the White house. If Democrats remain, octane will drop to 91 in all states, and corn will be used. Electric vehicles, eventhough they are very limited, will be pushed. as will everything green. If Republicans take charge, the octane will still go to 91, but no corn additive. Additionally, there will be a chance of drilling in Alaska, but even with that possibility, the prices should be in the mid $5.00 range. Without Alaskan and off shore oil, shortages are a huge concern. Arabic countries will not change the way they have been for thousands of years, regardless of who the dictator is, and that directly affects our supply.
I agree that 4 and 6 cyl, lighter cars are on the horizon. A turbo will be the performance booster for the young at heart.
There will only be a few models of big, heavy cars and personal trucks available shortly after 2014, and probably made by Ford, the most balanced manufacturer.
I will buy a 2013 supercharged 392 challenger when they come out in 2013, but if not, I will grab a Boss Mustang. Both are great cars.

Jorge83
10-23-2011, 11:29 AM
If I recall, the bill or w\e dosen't effect current model cars....only newer design cars....all the "new" designs or "refreshes" have to meet the new EPA standards...I could be wrong though, but that's what I remember, so the Challenger wouldn't technically be effected, but naturally no one is going to want it if Obama makes gas 5$ a gallon, we're going to have a mad max on our hands with post apocalyptic bad ass muscle cars if this guy continues :O, so silly to "force" a nation based on freedom to change, the government was never supposed to have this much impact on this crap.

Barry: She sips nitro... with Phase 4 heads! 600 horsepower through the wheels! She's meanness set to music and the ***** is born to run!

Goose: He's in a coma man!

HAHAHAHA :devil:

DODGE HOLIDAY
11-23-2011, 02:48 PM
Decided to toss this lingering thread back in the microwave as we're getting closer to the 2013 order date. So far industry wide, it looks like as the economy continues to stinketh, the Big 3 unveil even hotter models inspite of such. That be good news!

2008_orange
11-23-2011, 03:05 PM
Battery technology. The achilles heal of the electric car.

:lol:

hahaha

Johnman
11-23-2011, 05:00 PM
With the new 650hp Shelby Mustang due in 2013 and the ZL1 Camaro in 2012, the imminent demise of the muscle car has been exaggerated. Bad news is that the Challenger will likely not even try to compete in the new ponycar major leagues. Hopefully it will still survive though cause I will want to update mine in a year or two. And 470hp should be enough for me.

JohnnyQuaaludes
11-23-2011, 06:13 PM
2012 is going to be a bad year for the autos
GM stock is down from around $40 to around $21
Ford from $19 too around $9 ashare
Fiat Lost lots of dollars(and got downgraded again} and Chrysler will not go public.
Think 2013 will be the last year for the Challenger,will get mine in late aug,Better buying the car off of the lot since it will be cheaper then ordering one.............JQ

MoparOhio
11-24-2011, 05:00 AM
Quite honestly it all depends on the economy and the price of gasoline how the Big Three do. Chrysler has room for increased sales, Ford should hold about flat, GM could go either way.

Ironside
11-24-2011, 12:06 PM
It's our oil. Let's go get it instead of giving money to enemies of the United States in the Middle East.

You DO realize that the largest supplier of oil and petrolium products to the United States is Canada right? ...Mexico being the second largest.

I'm not saying that there isn't ANY oil coming from the middle east, but clearly the majority of these products do not come from "enemies" of the U.S. (unless you guys are still mad at us for Celine Dion??) :bigthumb:

JohnnyQuaaludes
11-24-2011, 05:39 PM
Economy will suck in 2012 and nobody will hire till there is someone new in the whitehouse.I am sure most worry about their Jobs and house payments more then
looking to buy a new car.
Myself I don't have that problem and hoping there will be other colors for the 2013s when I buy my next RT in Aug........................JQ

pdx.challenger
11-24-2011, 09:37 PM
You DO realize that the largest supplier of oil and petrolium products to the United States is Canada right? ...Mexico being the second largest.

I'm not saying that there isn't ANY oil coming from the middle east, but clearly the majority of these products do not come from "enemies" of the U.S. (unless you guys are still mad at us for Celine Dion??) :bigthumb:

Additionally, the "enemy" Saudis, on several occasions, have worked behind the scenes assisting America in the Middle East. While not confidential information, it's kept very low profile, so as to not cause issues with their neighbors.

ND RAM
11-26-2011, 08:43 PM
Wow. Alot of gloom and doom Challenger owners here, geuss it's not just you Huggy...

Anyway in 2013:

The Challenger will be unchanged from 2012 with maybe a slight tweak or two. 2014 will hold a redesign and either the 426 HEMI or a S/C 392. My money is actually on the 426 at this point as I think it makes more sense from a marketing standpoint. Gas will be around $3.5-4, depending on the 2012 elections but Obama will more than likely be a 1 term president. The Charger will also have an option for a 6-spd manual by 2013 if for nothing more than to grasp that slight mpg advantage. Fiat will have figured out the CAFE standards since they split SRT off as it's own brand. And lastly, in 2013 everyone will still be having this discussion that the world is coming to an end and all the cool cars have already been made.

TaylorSF
11-28-2011, 08:09 PM
There will be:
Base Challenger V6 Coupe- 320HP, 35 MPG Highway, 29,999$
Challenger R/T 5.7 Hemi evolved to- 400HP, 30mpg Highway, 34,999$
Challenger SRT Hemi evolved to 500HP, 35 mpg Highway, 47,999$

Costs to develop a supercharged factory option V6 or 5.7 will lead to refinement of current platforms instead.

The Shelby and ZL1 killer option will be pursued with a SC 6.4, not a 7.0L/426.

Although awesome crate engines and "dealer installed" options will be available.

Each of the above models will have a curb weight 211 pounds less than they weight now.

The Challenger T/A SRT will be a supercharged 6.4L with 670HP, and extreme lightening measures. At 59,999. The lack of A/C, sound deadening, insulation, Nav, radio, etc. will help with both the weight and keeping it under 60K. It will be the performer we want, but a miserable daily driver.

Consumers will pay the government a "gas guzzler" tax of 1000$ for every L above 4.0L of displacement. 5.7=1700$, 6.4L=2400$. Engines above 4.0L with forced induction will pay an additional 1000$ charge.

Mid grade gas will be 4.40 a gallon. 91/93 octane will be 5$.

The Mustang GT 5.0 will be at 450 HP. It will MSRP less than an RT.
There will be an extreme lightened Boss version of it with 470 HP and a 12mo warranty.
The will offer a 5.0 GT Mach1-Bullit S/C version at 500HP.
The Shelby will be at 700HP seconds after the SRT T/A hits the dealers.
But their big seller will be 400HP ecoboost coupes.


The Camaro SS will be at 470 HP, and 400 pounds lighter, and 39,999.
The ZL1 will be slightly upgraded at 60K and 600HP.
The best bang for the buck will the the Z28, a S/C version of the SS engine with lightening and handling upgrades. At 50K and a weight on par with a Mustang GT, 510 HP, and full daily driveability.

Government pressure for lowering speed limits, penalty taxes, etc. combined with sheer greed of most dealerships will turn off most buyers. It will be like 1970/1971, the peak year or two of our modern muscle car era. Performance will start to drop for non-engineering reasons, and 2017 will be much like 1975. THE END.

Between 2013 and 2017 will see warranty voiding for computer recorded illegal speeds and "abusive use." A couple models will be last gasp hold outs in this period, like the SD Pontiacs.

dvsrt8
11-28-2011, 09:12 PM
Well, we already have the ZL1 Camaro with 580hp, the 2013 Shelby Mustang with 650hp and the Nissan GTR as a 2013 with 545hp. Seems that as long as there are people wanting to spend $50K-$60K or more on performance cars the manufactures will build them, especially since now they are just revisions of current vehicles they already paid to design and build. Even these high performance vehicles are getting excellent fuel economy and emit little pollution given their performance capabilities. At 12,000 miles driven per year average (probably high for all Challengers) and an average of 15mpg (city-highway combined) thats about 800 gallons per year. 800 times $3.50 = $2,800. 800 times $4.50 = $3,600. 800 times $5.00 = $4,000. Would you sell or park your Challenger if it cost you $800 or $1,200 more per year? $66 to $100 pre per month? I think it would hurt the aftermarket parts sales more. It's the Honda Civic driver who has to spend a few hundred more per year that gets the most upset when fuel prices go up. Car people like us who enjoy performance cars always find a way to justify what we spend for our "fun".

5-years down the road you will see high performance hybrid performance cars with smaller gas engined supplemented by high torque electric motors at each wheel to achieve superior performance figures while being extrmely thrifty on the amount of fuel they use. Best of both worlds as far as fuel use goes but high performance hybrid technology will certainly drive up vehicle prices.

trev
11-28-2011, 10:49 PM
who cares baby!>!>?!?!?!

sex muscle cars rock nrolll yeahahaha;dslfma;bihrea'vna

nakita7
11-29-2011, 10:46 PM
Ask yourself this...

If there is a 'gas shortage', then why even develop muscle cars and then push them to over 600HP?

Common sense would dictate that they will be gone...but as most intelligent people know, common sense gets thrown out the window in today's society. In answer to your original question, it's a double-edged sword. No easy answer.

ChallengerPhil
11-30-2011, 07:14 AM
New ones will be gone, but I haven't seen any laws requiring even the oldest most obnoxious muscle cars crushed.... well ok there was that time in the 90's when California went nuts crushing everything in site that didn't pass emissions. Didn't Car Craft have a 67 Camaro project like that? They saved it from the crusher, fixed it up, it passed emissions?


Anyway. it was funny reading this thread from the beginning. back in feb, a few people were certain we'd be at $5-6 gas. we're it $3.09 here in SE WI. Stil lcould go up though.... it always does.

None of these cars will all of a sudden not be on the streets, but new cars will just be a combination of power, better MPG. The technology is here now to make a decent fast car. The late 70's and early 80's were dead until FI hit the modern muscle. Ford's FI system for the Mustang, GM's TPI.... that started it all back up to where we are now. Factory off the show room floor cars with 550+ hp.... who the hell would have thought that in say, 1979? or 1989? or 1999!!!!

We may see a dip back into the 400HP range with powerful V6's in smaller sports car packages, but It's not ALL going the way of the electric car.

Desertdawg
11-30-2011, 10:11 AM
but It's not ALL going the way of the electric car.

There will be apps for sound. A electric car sitting at a light, select your sound and you could have sound of an Top Fuel Dragster, or driving through on a country road you select FI engine sound LOL

I'm glad I enjoyed the real deal growing up in the 60's and 70s with cammed cars and cheap gas.

Another couple billion people in the world all wanting to drive like us. We just have to go with the flow. In the end we will still find enjoyment, maybe just a slight bit different.

The HP muscle cars as we know today will be the novelty for weekend driving. So, enjoy what you have to select from today. This time around, we will be seeing drastic changes by 2015 and there will be no turning back.

:icon_cheers::icon_cheers:

Doozle
11-30-2011, 04:32 PM
FWIW, I predict that the Challenger will be around at least until 2015. I say that because that's the last year before the US Govt. mandated C.A.F.E. (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) standards kick in. The current edition of the Challenger "could" be here longer "IF" Dodge sells tons of those new Fiat 500's. In fact I hope Dodge/Fiat sell the hell out of all the small cars they've got in order that our beloved Challenger & the other Mopar performance vehicles will still be built.
I'd also like to see either a hybrid or totally electric version of the Challenger be built. If this is where we may all be heading, I at least want to do it in style. Apologies if this comes across as automotively sacrilegious its just as long as the Challenger is still built I think its a huge win for us performance car loving fans. Just some random thoughts FWIW!

JeffsGonePlumCrazy
11-30-2011, 07:16 PM
The 392 will be supercharged, but a hp too late and a dollar to much, with only 530hp, folks will once again laugh at us, but we will look cooler while they are laughing at us. j/k. Hopefully a T/A, Boss response car will be built, chevy will prob have a z28 using the zr1 suspension. More than likey we will get a wheel and stripe package car with an exclusive serialized dash plaque instead and we will be in awe. Who needs real upgrades, when you got decals booyah. If they make a As Seen On TV Bedazzler Edition, I want number 1 for sure. I might have to talk to Bob Fredrick and see if he can pull some strings.

pdx.challenger
11-30-2011, 07:25 PM
The 392 will be supercharged, but a hp too late and a dollar to much, with only 530hp, folks will once again laugh at us, but we will look cooler while they are laughing at us. j/k. Hopefully a T/A, Boss response car will be built, chevy will prob have a z28 using the zr1 suspension. More than likey we will get a wheel and stripe package car with an exclusive serialized dash plaque instead and we will be in awe. Who needs real upgrades, when you got decals booyah. If they make a As Seen On TV Bedazzler Edition, I want number 1 for sure. I might have to talk to Bob Fredrick and see if he can pull some strings.

Yeah, we can get stimulated again, like we did over the "Kowalski Edition".
:banana:

plumcrazydaytona
11-30-2011, 09:32 PM
Supercharged will be a 6.2 L !!

moparman243
12-01-2011, 02:20 PM
Well if you ask me, I don't want to see any of the modern muscle cars go; especially the Challenger. It's happened to all great muscle cars of the past, though, and we still tear up the streets getting 8 mpg even though they stopped production 40 years ago. The 392 is bigger louder and stronger than any other challenger yet, and even the R/T is bad ass so in my opinion, if you really don't want them to go, buy one right now and keep it. Let it become a classic, grow old with it, and it will seem like Dodge never stopped giving to you.

Charliepfe
12-01-2011, 02:47 PM
And I will always have my baby!!!

elie
12-01-2011, 03:05 PM
There is only one thing who decide if a muscle or any car will stay or stop production:
This thing is made by you! If you and lot of people keep buying Dodge Challenger it will stay till 2020 and even more, they will provide too many engines and they will reduce the weight and all other stuff as long as it is selling.

10ChallSRT8
12-01-2011, 03:40 PM
According to Nostradamus (http://www.nostradamuspredictions.org/nostradamus-2012), 2012 will be the last model year... we'll all be burnt to a crisp in 2013.

elie
12-01-2011, 04:01 PM
According to Nostradamus (http://www.nostradamuspredictions.org/nostradamus-2012), 2012 will be the last model year... we'll all be burnt to a crisp in 2013.
Always there have been such predictions, I remember very well year 2000 :)
They said it will be the last day... bla bla bla
We are still living healthy :)
We will still live and we'll update this thread in 2012 and 2013 then in 2014 ;)

pdx.challenger
12-01-2011, 04:22 PM
Always there have been such predictions, I remember very well year 2000 :)
They said it will be the last day... bla bla bla
We are still living healthy :)
We will still live and we'll update this thread in 2012 and 2013 then in 2014 ;)

Yeah, but the Mayans have determined that we shall all perish on December 21, 2012. The upside to this is that I won't be buying Christmas gifts next year!
:scatter:

elie
12-01-2011, 04:43 PM
Yeah, but the Mayans have determined that we shall all perish on December 21, 2012. The upside to this is that I won't be buying Christmas gifts next year!
:scatter:
I usually buy Christmas gifts before 21st :(
Nice one pdx.challenger

TommyGNR
12-01-2011, 04:57 PM
Their will be plenty of gas and Dodge will still be selling Challengers.
Shale Oil and fracking is going to make the USA the worlds largest oil producer in 5 years.
Direct Injection and higher compression ratios are going to make V8's common place.

10ChallSRT8
12-01-2011, 05:03 PM
Yeah, but the Mayans have determined that we shall all perish on December 21, 2012. The upside to this is that I won't be buying Christmas gifts next year!
:scatter:

I'll hold off Christmas shopping till Saturday, 22 Dec 2012... maybe buy the 2013 Challenger :)

pdx.challenger
12-01-2011, 05:13 PM
I'll hold off Christmas shopping till Saturday, 22 Dec 2012... maybe buy the 2013 Challenger :)

Buy the Challenger, even if you can't afford it, on the 20th & drive the hell out of it. Buy the gifts on the 22nd & worry about the car payments. :icon_wink:

PRoBLeMz
12-01-2011, 05:28 PM
2016 will be the end.... of high horse cars. Treehuggers got something in the works.... need to start buying up guns also.

elie
12-02-2011, 03:32 AM
Buy the Challenger, even if you can't afford it, on the 20th & drive the hell out of it. Buy the gifts on the 22nd & worry about the car payments. :icon_wink:
If he can't afford the Challenger why don't he ask Santa Clause? :) :)
He is waiting for our queries!
SANTA, I WANT AN S/C FOR MY 392 PLEASE!!!!!

pdx.challenger
12-02-2011, 03:44 AM
If he can't afford the Challenger why don't he ask Santa Clause? :) :)
He is waiting for our queries!
SANTA, I WANT AN S/C FOR MY 392 PLEASE!!!!!

Because it'll be just before Christmas 2012 & we're not gonna make it. Santa (kids, cover your eyes) is gonna go up in flames on the 21st with the rest of us. :flame:

elie
12-02-2011, 04:28 AM
Because it'll be just before Christmas 2012 & we're not gonna make it. Santa (kids, cover your eyes) is gonna go up in flames on the 21st with the rest of us. :flame:
It will be damn so hot by that time :)
Summer on December :) :)

I will reply on this thread on January 2013 ;)

ChallengerPhil
12-02-2011, 04:33 AM
Their will be plenty of gas and Dodge will still be selling Challengers.
Shale Oil and fracking is going to make the USA the worlds largest oil producer in 5 years.
Direct Injection and higher compression ratios are going to make V8's common place.

Environmentalists and the left will make sure these things never happen.

Heck I'd love to see it happen.... move to South Dakota and setup shop there!

Doozle
12-02-2011, 06:03 PM
According to Nostradamus (http://www.nostradamuspredictions.org/nostradamus-2012), 2012 will be the last model year... we'll all be burnt to a crisp in 2013.

Nistradamus was on crack. Do not, repeat do not go out and do something fiscally irresponsible like maxing out your credit cards beyond their max by buying everyone down @ your friendlily local gas & sip a round or two. You will live to regret it! :read::grim:

Cuda Cliff
12-02-2011, 07:14 PM
MY PREDICTION .....Gas will be an average of $5.00 a gallon and those Challenger Owners with the V-6 engines (Flex Fuel) will be able to use up to 80% Ethanol and will only have to pay $1.00 a gallon and will continue to drive! .......The Hemi Challenger Owners will have to pay about $7.00 or more a gallon and only the RICH ones will be able to drive (Every other Weekend) :yikes:

:saythat:


Ok ..... We will see! :42:

Chally2010
12-02-2011, 10:04 PM
The future of the Challenger and US economy...I don't know about the US economy we have to spend less than we take in taxes..that said here is my shot at what we can expect regarding the Challenger. Everybody seems to think it is going to be "forced" out of existance and I disagree. When Chrysler went through the bankruptcy they were able to start over with "NO" debt....just pay back the money given them by the Govt. bailout .... that is much less then the debt they were able to do away with. The Challenger will survive until Dodge decides to make their new muscle car competitive with the Mustang and Camero. Challenger wil always be the best looking but when it becomes all about performance the Cuda will be redesigned, lighter than the Challenger but with equal or better HP than Ford. Dodge really doesn't care about Chevy, do as well as Ford and Dodge will make money. I think the big year, change over year from Challenger to Cuda for speed will be 2015 or 2016. Not sure if the Challenger will end production that year since it is built on the same platform as the Charger and the Chrysler 300. I will still be driving and keeping my Challenger....best looking car ever made and the fastest car I ever owned!:)

TommyGNR
12-03-2011, 06:37 AM
Environmentalists and the left will make sure these things never happen.

Heck I'd love to see it happen.... move to South Dakota and setup shop there!

They cant stop this. The majority of the shale formations are on private land(you dont need government approval to start drilling). Many rigs are have allready been setup. Its why the unemployment rate is so low in North Dakota. I saw a story that McDonalds's is offering people a $500 signing bonus to work there because they cant find anybody.
Peak oil is a load of B.S being fed by tree huggers who want us to give up on oil and commodity traders who want to pump the price up by convincing people we are running out.

Desertdawg
12-03-2011, 06:36 PM
They cant stop this. The majority of the shale formations are on private land(you dont need government approval to start drilling). Many rigs are have allready been setup. Its why the unemployment rate is so low in North Dakota. I saw a story that McDonalds's is offering people a $500 signing bonus to work there because they cant find anybody.
Peak oil is a load of B.S being fed by tree huggers who want us to give up on oil and commodity traders who want to pump the price up by convincing people we are running out.

Don't be too set on that belief. The problem is another couple billion people wanting the same life style as the good ole USA.

Here's a little slide chart that may change your thinking.

Powering the Earth - CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2009/environment/energy/)

Up to now we have consumed the majority of the worlds oil to satisfy ours growth. Now do you really think the other 5 billion people on this planet will let us be the only energy hogs?????
Just move the slider and see how insignificant we will become???

elie
12-03-2011, 09:41 PM
I know there is so many pollution especially with the growth of population all around the world. The solution will be to use more the hybrid cars and to plant more trees :)

TenguJOSH
12-04-2011, 02:36 PM
End of 2012-2013 is the Challenger's last stand. Most dealerships say so, and its not exactly a top seller. The fact that Dodge is dealing out Orange Crush as a color for 2012 and the Yellow Jacket SRT just kind of seems like a last ditch effort to make its mark. The originals ran 4 years, so at this point the Challenger is over-staying its welcome. We have the last muscle car as far as looks go. Hang on to em!

robo5555
12-04-2011, 08:01 PM
Invest in oil!

Hal H
12-04-2011, 08:30 PM
End of 2012-2013 is the Challenger's last stand. Most dealerships say so, and its not exactly a top seller. The fact that Dodge is dealing out Orange Crush as a color for 2012 and the Yellow Jacket SRT just kind of seems like a last ditch effort to make its mark. The originals ran 4 years, so at this point the Challenger is over-staying its welcome. We have the last muscle car as far as looks go. Hang on to em!

A $30-$50 2-door car is going to be a discretionary purchase. More buyers are going for the $15-20k segment in economy cars in recent years.

In light of the economy and buyer's behavior, sales have been going strong considering all the factors and this isn't a first-time buyer type of car. Its more of a specialty / niche market and you can only expect so much in sales vs. a 4 door 4/6cyl car at a lower price.

When the Challenger was announced in '06 and went into production in early '08, the economy was running at a higher pace...by '09, it was a very different story with unemployment, credit getting tight and the recession continuing for 2 years plus by that point.

The depressed housing market and employment market have been putting a damper on a lot of discretionary purchases vs. a necessity type of expenditure...

pdx.challenger
12-04-2011, 08:43 PM
How is a Challenger not a necessity?
:burnout::burnout:

elie
12-04-2011, 09:03 PM
End of 2012-2013 is the Challenger's last stand. Most dealerships say so, and its not exactly a top seller. The fact that Dodge is dealing out Orange Crush as a color for 2012 and the Yellow Jacket SRT just kind of seems like a last ditch effort to make its mark. The originals ran 4 years, so at this point the Challenger is over-staying its welcome. We have the last muscle car as far as looks go. Hang on to em!
So I will be lucky to have mine in couple of days ;)

TommyGNR
12-05-2011, 06:26 AM
:ugh2:End of 2012-2013 is the Challenger's last stand. Most dealerships say so, and its not exactly a top seller. The fact that Dodge is dealing out Orange Crush as a color for 2012 and the Yellow Jacket SRT just kind of seems like a last ditch effort to make its mark. The originals ran 4 years, so at this point the Challenger is over-staying its welcome. We have the last muscle car as far as looks go. Hang on to em!
Nov '11 Challenger sales are up 20% over last year. YTD Challenger sales are up 8% over last year. The car has sold more units every year of its existence. Dodge will be building Challengers well past 2013 because they are makeing Dodge $$$

Doozle
12-05-2011, 06:35 AM
I think it must be a regional thing if the Challenger isn't selling in your area as the dealerships in H town seem to move them as fast as they come in. While @ the dealership this past Saturday I got to test drive a new 2012. Now my 10 SRT8 only has 4,000 miles, it's not daily driven. I'm thinking to myself, "wow, my car is fairly low mileage". He then tells me that they have several customers who're trading in their SRT8's with only 1,100 miles on them. Basically they're trading in and getting the new model every year. My response was, man you lose so much money doing that (trading in each year) & he said they're not too concerned about it & they can afford it (must be nice). So while some people grumble about whether they should get the R/T or SRT8, or if a preowned 1 owner SRT8 is a better deal then a new 2012 R/T, & is a Hurst limited edition Challenger is really worth the extra $$$, there are those "fortunate individuals" who're buying all they can & trading back a short time later.
One other thing to consider here is the factory up in Brampton, Ontario, makes many more SE Challengers then SRT8's but all of them are moving off dealer lots, just some are moving faster then others. The 2012 SRT8 that I test drove while my car was having a SES light resolved had two previous prospectives who dropped oot @ the last moment. So @ least in H town the Challengers are selling well. Oh & do try to take into account the good deals on 1 owner preowned R/T & SRT8's & how quickly they move off the lots because they're priced "right"!

cmtoth
12-12-2011, 07:51 AM
Environmentalists and the left will make sure these things never happen.

Heck I'd love to see it happen.... move to South Dakota and setup shop there!

I love to camp, fish, and hike(so I guess I appreciate our environment) and I'd love to see natural gas extraction grow albeit in a safe way that takes human health and our surrounding environment into account.

I also lean left politically/economically(think 1980s era Republican), yet drive a HEMI Durango and Ford Mustang(V8)...

Greyhound
12-12-2011, 08:46 AM
I also lean left politically/economically(think 1980s era Republican)...

??????????

pdx.challenger
12-12-2011, 09:12 AM
??????????

It means he's slightly a democrat. :icon_biggrin:

stamatz
12-12-2011, 09:14 AM
Vaporized!!!!

According to some, the world will end on December 21st, 2012.

So 2013 will never come....lol

pdx.challenger
12-12-2011, 09:16 AM
Vaporized!!!!

According to some, the world will end on December 21st, 2012.

So 2013 will never come....lol

As I've mentioned previously, I'm just glad it's before Christmas because I won't be buying gifts now. :woot:

Doozle
12-13-2011, 06:20 AM
Re: The end of the world (as we know it) DEC 21, 2012.

This is just a public service reminder not to go out and maximize the spending limit on your credit cards in anticipation of this event (LOL). Please try to show a little bit of fiscal self restraint by not going out and partying like a rock star with no thought or care about what happens when 2013 does in fact occur. Doing so would show gross financial negligence on your part & the rest of us don't feel like picking up your tab any longer.
In short, the Mayans were & will be proven once and for all to be "way off base" in regards to this prediction. Just thought y'all would want to know. But just in case I am wrong, let me be the 1st to say, so long and thanks for all the fish!
:SM127:

pdx.challenger
12-13-2011, 06:50 AM
Re: The end of the world (as we know it) DEC 21, 2012.

This is just a public service reminder not to go out and maximize the spending limit on your credit cards in anticipation of this event (LOL). Please try to show a little bit of fiscal self restraint by not going out and partying like a rock star with no thought or care about what happens when 2013 does in fact occur. Doing so would show gross financial negligence on your part & the rest of us don't feel like picking up your tab any longer.

The flip side of this, is that the world could end & we'll have deprived ourselves of partying like a rock star. :rocker:

In short, the Mayans were & will be proven once and for all to be "way off base" in regards to this prediction. Just thought y'all would want to know. But just in case I am wrong, let me be the 1st to say, so long and thanks for all the fish!
:SM127:

You're talking about my (sorta) people. :bandit:

Actually, the Mayans didn't say anything. It's due to this fact, that modern archeologists have interpreted this to mean the end of time. ;)

mrbill340
12-30-2011, 07:55 AM
I do find it alarming that no updates have been done to the front and rear of the car?? Their are changes that can be made similar to the 71,72,73,74 Challengers that would evolve the styling without changing the dimensions of the overall car....?? No changes you can really put your finger on since 2008 ??? I don't know but it looks to me like the company doesn't want to spend any money on this vehicle. Not a good indicator of the future for the Challenger, unless they are really concentrating on the rest of the company. I hope that's the case.....but doubtful.

pdx.challenger
12-30-2011, 08:00 AM
I do find it alarming that no updates have been done to the front and rear of the car?? Their are changes that can be made similar to the 71,72,73,74 Challengers that would evolve the styling without changing the dimensions of the overall car....?? No changes you can really put your finger on since 2008 ??? I don't know but it looks to me like the company doesn't want to spend any money on this vehicle. Not a good indicator of the future for the Challenger, unless they are really concentrating on the rest of the company. I hope that's the case.....but doubtful.

2014MY will be the final year... or halfway through the 2013MY if Mayan archeologists have their way. :icon_wink:

mrbill340
12-30-2011, 08:57 AM
Not comfortable with the way Dodge won't spend any money on styling changes to the Challenger!! Don't get me wrong it's a beautiful car, but no changes since 2008, really?? They could evolve styling without changing the body style, similar to the 71,72,73,74 Challengers that would freshen and update styling while staying true to Challenger's roots!! Hope i'm wrong!!....but?? OK Dodge what's up????????

robroy
12-30-2011, 09:04 AM
Tell me when you see a 1974 next to a 1971 that you would rather have a 1974... Really?

JS23V0B
12-30-2011, 12:09 PM
70 was the best year, 71 was ok, after that they got butt ugly. I'm glad that dodge left this version unaltered.

btcaub
12-30-2011, 12:58 PM
2014MY will be the final year... or halfway through the 2013MY if Mayan archeologists have their way. :icon_wink:

I remember when Dodge was touting the last year of the Viper...now a new one is coming

And the Durango that had its last year and disappeared for a year....

And Jeep would never make a 4 door wrangler or pick up version....

:icon_wink:

pdx.challenger
12-30-2011, 01:33 PM
I remember when Dodge was touting the last year of the Viper...now a new one is coming

And the Durango that had its last year and disappeared for a year....

And Jeep would never make a 4 door wrangler or pick up version....

:icon_wink:

I'm referring to my conclusion, which I've previously mentioned in other threads, that the Challenger as we know it today will end with the 2014MY. :yesnod:

mgnorth
12-30-2011, 02:42 PM
I'm referring to my conclusion, which I've previously mentioned in other threads, that the Challenger as we know it today will end with the 2014MY. :yesnod:

They may or may not use the name again, but the retro style is all or nothing. The 1970 Challenger is (in my opinion, but I think many agree) by far the best of the original looks. They did such a good job capturing the character of the original that there is no good way to evolve it. Basically the choice now is make it less retro, or follow the design through the 70s, or drop the name, or make it totally different. Out of all these choices, I think dropping the name is where it will and should go. If they do that, I expect the Cuda will resurface. I know there is an issue with the Cuda name, but $$ will fix that, or they could go back to Barracuda.
On a side note, the old AMC Javelins looked really nice. It would not hurt my feelings to see something based on that.

JohnnyQuaaludes
12-30-2011, 05:21 PM
As I said you will see a Chevy Firebird or Chevy GTO before you will see a Cuda.............JQ

Turbozcs2003
12-31-2011, 02:50 PM
So current 300 and charger end also in 2014?

What are they going to build to make up for the yearly 37,000 Challenger units?



I'm referring to my conclusion, which I've previously mentioned in other threads, that the Challenger as we know it today will end with the 2014MY. :yesnod:

pdx.challenger
12-31-2011, 05:21 PM
So current 300 and charger end also in 2014?

What are they going to build to make up for the yearly 37,000 Challenger units?

I have no idea about the 300 & Charger. They're a totally different situation, because they're built for a mass market, not a niche market.

I believe that there will be a new & smaller platform car that'll probably borrow another name from the past.

elie
12-31-2011, 06:18 PM
70 was the best year, 71 was ok, after that they got butt ugly. I'm glad that dodge left this version unaltered.
I agree with you. 1970 was the best year for Challenger.
Even it was better than the 1971.

StealthChallenger
01-01-2012, 06:29 AM
70 Challenger was the best of the Dodges, and the 71 Cuda was the best of the Plymouths in terms of styling. IMO, as long as the Charger/300 continue to be produced, which is VERY likely, there will always be room in the line up for a coupe. I hear the Charger/300 eventually will move to an updated E platform around 2015 MY. The car is supposed to get smaller. Thus, the current platform which the Challenger uses will be phased out. The car has really no where to go except a completely new design on a new, smaller platform. This could be a VERY good thing, but I am skeptical. After driving an Audi the other day and talking to the salesman, there is a move away from V-8 power happening throughout many companies Audi included who are now dropping their 4.2 V-8 from the line in favor of a 3.0 Supercharged 6 cylinder. Gilles has even hinted this is where the industry is headed. Fear not, performance of the S/C 6s and turbo 4s actually rival those of some V-8s. Problem is they sound like crap. If they could make a 6 sound like an eight with the same performance, I'd drive one. Until then, I'll enjoy getting my 17 mpg average.

btcaub
01-01-2012, 02:28 PM
As I said you will see a Chevy Firebird or Chevy GTO before you will see a Cuda.............JQ

Interesting, since you can get both, wondering when that 'Cuda's comin? ;)

http://www.pontiacpedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Bandit-Trans-Am-014.jpg

http://www.pontiacpedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Bandit-Trans-Am-17.jpg

http://wot.motortrend.com/files/2011/11/2011-SEMA-Chevy-Camaro-Pontiac-GTO-Conversion-Front-Three-Quarter-1024x640.jpg

:banger:

pdx.challenger
01-01-2012, 02:37 PM
Interesting, since you can get both, wondering when that 'Cuda's comin? ;)

http://www.pontiacpedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Bandit-Trans-Am-014.jpg

http://www.pontiacpedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Bandit-Trans-Am-17.jpg

:banger:

I must admit that if Pontiac would've survived & built this Trans Am, that's the route I may have gone. :SM120:

P.S. Do you know who built this version?

Hal H
01-01-2012, 05:05 PM
I must admit that if Pontiac would've survived & built this Trans Am, that's the route I may have gone. :SM120:

P.S. Do you know who built this version?

This outfit is called the Trans Am Depot - their concepts:

7T7 Trans Am (like your images)
6T9 Trans Am
6T9 Goat (GTO)

crow
01-01-2012, 05:27 PM
I must admit that if Pontiac would've survived & built this Trans Am, that's the route I may have gone. :SM120:

P.S. Do you know who built this version?

http://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f51/camaro-conversions-58328/

JohnnyQuaaludes
01-01-2012, 06:29 PM
I rather wait for the 2015 or 2016 Fiat 500 Challenger with 123 HP and shaker hood and 1969 Daytona rear wing.(and if we are lucky maybe a few decals baby}....
I hear it will be as fast as a 1995 Ford Escort...........JQ

mgnorth
01-01-2012, 06:37 PM
I rather wait for the 2015 or 2016 Fiat 500 Challenger with 123 HP and shaker hood and 1969 Daytona rear wing.(and if we are lucky maybe a few decals baby}....
I hear it will be as fast as a 1995 Ford Escort...........JQ
That won't happen until the Firebird based on the Volt comes out.
Oh - never mind - you can already get one!

golphin
01-01-2012, 06:45 PM
They killed the V-8 muscle cars in the 70's and they started a come back in the 80's. I bought a new Z28 in 86 and it could not hold a candle to the 2012 Challenger RT I bought a few weeks ago. Maybe in looks but not in performance, or anything else. There will always be a market for these cars no matter what gas cost.

runner2go
01-01-2012, 10:45 PM
I rather wait for the 2015 or 2016 Fiat 500 Challenger with 123 HP and shaker hood and 1969 Daytona rear wing.
(and if we are lucky maybe a few decals baby}....
I hear it will be as fast as a 1995 Ford Escort...........JQ

Wooohooo! :ack:

JohnnyQuaaludes
01-02-2012, 08:11 AM
Yep thats the Pink car I want
The Fiat challenger with shaker hood.(I think the Decal is a option}................JQ

High Rise Torker
01-02-2012, 09:46 AM
I rather wait for the 2015 or 2016 Fiat 500 Challenger with 123 HP and shaker hood and 1969 Daytona rear wing.(and if we are lucky maybe a few decals baby}....
I hear it will be as fast as a 1995 Ford Escort...........JQ

Ahh your a dreamer Johhny. Its gonna be a 1.9 77hp Hemi with an air grabber to help it out.

MoparOhio
01-02-2012, 10:33 AM
They did change the lower air dam from a smile to a frown just like from '70 to '71... quite a few people on this forum complained about that tiny, tiny change. If you ask me it is perfect just the way it is. They have made a ton of tweaks to handling, the 6.4 engine, the Pentastar V6 and some minor tweaks to packaging so to say it is unchanged since 2008 is a little misleading. Have they don't a lot? No. There is a profit level to this low volume car and I don't think any major changes will allow them to make money on it. THey already said the Charger interior won't be coming for the CHallenger due to cost. My guess is that 2014 will be the last year of the Challenger as we see it. I was hoping they would LED the tail lights like the Charger has but that remains to be seen if they will do that. I wouldn't be surprised if the Challenger name is discontinued for 2015 and beyond as they will probably have another different Coupe. To me the Challenger is what we see... not a different body style.

JohnnyQuaaludes
01-02-2012, 11:38 AM
Ahh your a dreamer Johhny. Its gonna be a 1.9 77hp Hemi with an air grabber to help it out.


Sorry I screwed up
The 123 HP is for the SRT
The 1.9 77Hp is for the RT,I will not be able to afford the Fiat Challenger SRT.
But I will get the RT.................JQ

High Rise Torker
01-02-2012, 11:51 AM
Sorry I screwed up
The 123 HP is for the SRT
The 1.9 77Hp is for the RT,I will not be able to afford the Fiat Challenger SRT.
But I will get the RT.................JQ


I'll be stuck with the dual hampster powered SE. :cheers:

Doozle
01-03-2012, 07:50 AM
Not comfortable with the way Dodge won't spend any money on styling changes to the Challenger!! Don't get me wrong it's a beautiful car, but no changes since 2008, really?? They could evolve styling without changing the body style, similar to the 71,72,73,74 Challengers that would freshen and update styling while staying true to Challenger's roots!! Hope i'm wrong!!....but?? OK Dodge what's up????????

Actually the changes are there you just have to know what to look for. For example, in 2009 the addition of "Torred" as a color option on the entire Challenger line up. In 2010 more color options (B5 Blue, Detonator Yellow, Plum Crazy Purple & Furious Fuchsia) became available through out the year. 2011 (IE's) have the the lower fascia turned upside down for a more "menacing look" as opposed to the 08-10 "smiling" lower fascia. Also the Challenger's central grill area is pained either blue or white depending on the car's body color. The Mopar 10 Challengers (available in 11) came with a "black" central grill surrounding area as standard. SRT 8 rear spoilers are now painted in body color matching paint vs just being a "flat black" like the 08-10 SRT8's were. The Challenger's interior gets a modest "refreshing" where its needed the most through out the cabin. If it helps, I agree with you that the changes made on the Challenger from 08-12 can be seen as "evolutionary" vs "revolutionary" and I think that's how it'll play out until the Challengers demise in 2015.
Take a look @ the original Dodge Challenger from 70-74, body wise nothing really changed at all as the body shape remained essentially the same. Looks wise, all the changes were minor enhancements or additions & deletions in various trim styles. I'm not going to weigh in on which year car had the better looks as that's a completely subjective viewpoint, but what y'all need to focus on here is the fact that the 70's Dodge Challenger remained the same car body style wise during its 1st generation run. In 75 the Challenger was put to rest due to declining sales and Dodge not willing to spend the necessary capital redesigning an increasingly unpopular car.
I think Dodge's management is right on the money by not spending huge amounts of money on redesigning a car that needs no improvement in looks. Besides given the past 70's Challenger scenario, what would you change the current Challenger to look like? A new millennia Chrysler Cordoba perhaps or a new generation 80's Dodge Mirada, etc? See it easier said then done when it comes to redesigning a car's looks. For everyone of you who wants, feels or needs a Challenger redesign there are @ least 10-20 or more who like the car as it is albeit with a bit of "freshening" as moves through its automotive product life cycle gracefully!
Now as the 74's looks compared to the 1st , the best, original Dodge Challenger of 1970, I know deep down that "IF" the engine options had remained the same throughout the Dodge Challenger's 70-74 run, the looks disparity issues wouldn't even be mentioned or debated today. Mopar fanatics weren't so upset about the increasingly perceived "ugliness" of the Challengers as they were about the decreasing performance engine options that were available to them as the 70's moved along. A lot changes happened to the auto industry in those 4 years & the Challenger like most other car makes & models suffered as well to the point of cancellation!

mrbill340
01-04-2012, 11:03 AM
I have a little more faith in Dodge's design team than you i guess. Look at what they have done with the Charger, Chrysler 200, Chrysler 300, 2013 Dodge Dart. I really don't think they would all of a sudden forget how to style a car....You can't stay stuck in a groove, you have to evolve. Or like it looks like they are doing, let it stay till sales die out and kill it....reality sucks...

mrbill340
01-04-2012, 11:26 AM
I guess you should read my post again, it says nothing about changing the body style. Which is how the 1970 through 1974 body stayed (the same!!). Same dimensions every year. Only the grill, tail lights, and interior changed.Engines changed because of emissions, we don't have that problem. Engines are now more powerful then they were in those days. I know i have owned each one, and still own a 1972 Cuda' 340 with a pistol grip 4-speed..As for those who never want things to change, they have 5 years of Challengers "being the same" to choose from. They will have no shortage of the same car, there are plenty out there. Maybe take a look at the "Saleen Challenger" not a drastic change, tastefully done.

Charliepfe
01-04-2012, 12:57 PM
Well said leave the body alone I love it!!

Doozle
01-05-2012, 07:17 AM
I have a little more faith in Dodge's design team than you i guess. Look at what they have done with the Charger, Chrysler 200, Chrysler 300, 2013 Dodge Dart. I really don't think they would all of a sudden forget how to style a car....You can't stay stuck in a groove, you have to evolve. Or like it looks like they are doing, let it stay till sales die out and kill it....reality sucks...

I hear you but you're missing the point which is what exactly would you change the body style too? As i stated earlier the 70-74 1st Gen Challenger remained the same throughout its product life. So there isn't any precedence for a changed body style to begin with. So what you're talking about is boldly going in a style direction that's never been attempted or seen before. That's a pretty risky move considering its your core fan base that has made the car a winner sales wise right from the start. By doing so you run the risk of alienating the majority of your hard core fan base in the process. Next you'll find forum pages such as this filled with with questions such as, "why did they change this or that?" or (my favorite question) "what was Dodge thinking & did thinking even enter into their decision process when they knowingly considered this?" Also you need to think way down the line future wise when auto enthusiasts begin restoring these cars, what will make it that much easier to find the right parts? So as of now the only visible external changes to the Challenger are 1) the upside down lower fascia grill & the redesigned front air spoiler (2011 - ????, big wup. Now try to find car parts that are specific to your year car model only? Yes they can be had but parts like this always go for a premium because the sellers know if you really want (or need) that part you'll be willing to pay whatever to get it. So if your planning to do a "concourse" restoration of a Challenger, well you know what you'll be doing in order to achieve this goal, " paying through the nose to get the specific parts you need". The early to mid 70's (with 1973 being the worst) were a prime example of this way of thinking. Many subtle exterior changes were made to each & every model across the whole line up. Yes the car buying public gets all twitterpaited when this happens but its a huge tooling cost that the car manufacturers have to incur in order to accomplish this. Given the harsh economic realities of the car company bail outs, it would amount to financial suicide for them to change things "on a whim".
Lastly, there are many examples of car makers & makes where the car itself did not noticeably change throughout its life. In fact most of your European & Japanese car makers hardly if ever change their cars body style but when they chose to do so its usually after 8-10 years. Just look at the VW Bettle, that car was built pretty much the same for 40 or so years. Many forum posters on here feel the Dodge Challenger will only be built until the 2014 model year, a scant 2 more years. I however being more optimistic then most feel the Challenger will be around through all the way up to & including the 2015 model year. We're talking 2-3 year tops, so ask yourself this question: knowing what I've just said, do you think it makes any sense for Dodge to attempt a major body restyle when only 2 or 3 years are left in the Challengers product life?
You want change for the Challenger how about an 8 speed "performance"automatic transmission, an all wheel drive version, a factory built & warrantied supercharger under the hood, larger displacement engines (426, 440)? Just try and keep the car looking the way it is and make the changes where they'll really count, under your right foot & on the pavement blasting down a concrete slap!
:bigthumb:

pdx.challenger
01-05-2012, 07:58 AM
I hear you but you're missing the point which is what exactly would you change the body style too? As i stated earlier the 70-74 1st Gen Challenger remained the same throughout its product life. So there isn't any precedence for a changed body style to begin with.

You're wrong. There's the '78-'83 Challenger, which is on what the new model will based. :lol:

RoostKing
01-05-2012, 08:23 AM
Well said and I agree, they could do minor updates to the body, keep updating the drivetrain(426!!!) suspension and interior. Sales of the Challenger are increasing year over year, they must be doing something right! Could be better of course.

ChallengerPhil
01-05-2012, 08:44 AM
Considering the point behind the Challenger, why would we even consider them restyling it? To what? The style of the Challenger as it sits right now is it's VERY DEFINITION. The Challenger did not go on other than the Mistu-model. Other cars continued, the Mustang, the Camaro, the Corvette. The Challenger morph with the rest of them.

The point of the Challenger, is the clock stopped.

Chassis and drivetrain upgrades are all it needs, with possibly minor interior updates, like color choices. You mess with exterior updates, or an overall design change and it's no longer retro muscle.

MoparOhio
01-05-2012, 09:02 AM
No car will live forever unchanged though. The next Gen Charger/300 will move to another platform so the Challenger or Challenger replacement will as well.

The Beetle is a bad example because the 1940 - 70s the Auto world was not as competitive as it is today. The Beetle was sold as a bare bones transportation vehicle as generic as possible and was sold around the globe. Heck, it didn't even have a heater! They made money on it because it was bare bones so costs were low and they built millions and millions of them. The only reason it went away in the US is because it wouldn't meet stronger emission testing.

The New Beetle, Chevrolet PTCruiser wanna be and PTCruiser went unchanged and sales eventually fell off a cliff.

mrbill340
01-05-2012, 10:52 AM
I will repeat "don't change the body" is this clear to all??? Have you all owned Challengers from 1970 thru 1974?? "THEY NEVER CHANGED THE BODY" is this clear?? I don't call minor tweak's to front grille area and Tail lights "major redesign". Understand!!! I have owned every year of the old Challengers 1970,71,72,73,74, "the Body never Changed"!! We got that straight?? OK here we go slowly-"the only cosmetic changes were to the grill and tail lights", not the body.OK?? I don't think Dodge would ruin the car with small changes to the grill and rear tail lights!! I think it would "Refresh the car" Those who aren't familiar with old challengers go pull up some pictures from each year and look at them. I liked them all!! Every year!! To continue the Challenger after 1974 the body would need to change due to safety issues,and the new shock absorbing bumpers being used!! That's why the later years had the rubber bumper guards!! But due to emissions controls(which killed horsepower), and insurance regulations (higher premiums for muscle cars)which help lead to poor sales for the Challenger, rather then spend millions on a body change(gamble)Dodge killed it!!! So with that said i still believe they can vary the grill, tail lights, tweak the interior (dash)to be more "retro" to improve on the great car they have!! What the hell, Dodge can partner with the after market (for quality control) and offer a "Shaker Hood"!! Why not??? ........Peace!!

mgnorth
01-05-2012, 11:38 AM
I will repeat "don't change the body" is this clear to all??? Have you all owned Challengers from 1970 thru 1974?? "THEY NEVER CHANGED THE BODY" is this clear?? I don't call minor tweak's to front grille area and Tail lights "major redesign". Understand!!! I have owned every year of the old Challengers 1970,71,72,73,74, "the Body never Changed"!! We got that straight?? OK here we go slowly-"the only cosmetic changes were to the grill and tail lights", not the body.OK?? I don't think Dodge would ruin the car with small changes to the grill and rear tail lights!! I think it would "Refresh the car" Those who aren't familiar with old challengers go pull up some pictures from each year and look at them. I liked them all!! Every year!! To continue the Challenger after 1974 the body would need to change due to safety issues,and the new shock absorbing bumpers being used!! That's why the later years had the rubber bumper guards!! But due to emissions controls(which killed horsepower), and insurance regulations (higher premiums for muscle cars)which help lead to poor sales for the Challenger, rather then spend millions on a body change(gamble)Dodge killed it!!! So with that said i still believe they can vary the grill, tail lights, tweak the interior (dash)to be more "retro" to improve on the great car they have!! What the hell, Dodge can partner with the after market (for quality control) and offer a "Shaker Hood"!! Why not??? ........Peace!!

So - let me get this straight - you are saying they changed it every year?
:)

NaturallyWicky
01-05-2012, 12:04 PM
I wouldn't be against some new transmissions, as much as I like the 5G-Tronic, I think adding a few extra gears might make the daily drivers among us even happier. But then again theres a reason the AMG side of Mercedes still liked this 5 speed with it's high torque capacity :bigthumb:

I would also like to see some added luxury in the back. The existing AC is awesome, but as my 11-year old nephew pointed out...there's no where for him to charge his iPod, except by me running it through the center console. Reclining seats in the back would also be nice, maybe eat a bit away from that massive trunk and find another inch or so for the legroom would be nice.

But honestly, I'm still loving my Challenger and if Ralph Gilles showed up at my door asking me what I'd change, I'd be hard pressed to think of anything drastic. Some refinement wouldn't go amiss, but I see nothing wrong with the car thus far.

Styling wise I wouldn't change anything. I wasn't around when these cars were burning rubber between lights with the best from GM and Ford, but today I think it is certainly the best looking "retro" muscle car money can buy. They kept the true spirit of usability rather than making these cars smaller, rougher, and more like track cars than daily drivers - like many of the rivals have done.

But yea, you cant fix perfection :bigthumb:

ND RAM
01-05-2012, 03:19 PM
OK here we go slowly-"the only cosmetic changes were to the grill and tail lights", not the body.OK??

:nono:You forgot the fact that the much cooler 70/71 sidemarkers were replaced in 72 with the corporate side markers that went on everything. Yes I know that's not a major change but they did also change the front grill, rear taillights (and obviously the taillight panel as well), plus the added 5-mph bumperettes. Again none of this was huge stuff but the model was also late to the party being that it only debuted in 1970 when the Mustang and Camaro both had huge head starts with building their reputations. Had the Challenger been first during the last muscle car war then I have no doubts that it too would have survived the test of time and remained in continuous production. Change HAS to come in order for the car to survive. Many of us don't like it but it is a necessity. No matter how much better you make the car beneath the wrapper people will still associate it with their first contact with that model. Take a look at the Dodge Ram. When the 1st Gen. body was released in 1972 it was a major change for Dodge and they sold well. The next completely new Ram was in 1994, 22 years later. Now, I personally love all of the generations of the Ram but just look at the sales numbers.

The redesigned 1994 Ram was a sales success, with sales rocketing from 100,000 units in 1993 to 240,000 in 1994, 280,000 in 1995, and nearly 400,000 in 1996. That year, it was prominently featured as the hero vehicle in the film Twister (http://www.challengertalk.com/wiki/Twister_(1996_film)). Sales of this generation peaked at just over 400,000 in 1999 before declining against the redesigned Ford (http://www.challengertalk.com/wiki/Ford_Motor_Company) and GM (http://www.challengertalk.com/wiki/General_Motors) trucks. By 2001, Ram sales figures were below those of Ford and Chevy trucks.

If there is no change, no improvement, public opinion (sales) will decline when all the models that are in the same segment are willing to take the risk and move forward.

Justinivor
01-05-2012, 03:25 PM
Given that Chrysler has made a significant investment in the L-type platforms, I doubt anything in the next few years with the current models will be drastically changed. It's conceivable that a platform change may occur in 5+ years, maybe, depending on profits. For now, any change we see, especially regarding the Challenger, will be subtle, or at least not radical.

As has be speculated in several threads now, and based on major car show concepts, the hope is that an all aluminum 426 is on the menu for the next top-of-the-line Challenger. Now the trick is emissions and fuel economy; yes most gearheads don't care about mileage, but the figures will have to manage around 13/19 to be viable. You can bet that if a 426 is planned, a new tranny and drive train will be necessary (8 gears for the auto if possible), including any fuel saver/MDS tech that the engineers can throw at it.

Cost for the 426 will have to be under 60K.

StealthChallenger
01-05-2012, 03:54 PM
Ralph Gilles said back in 2010 that the current LX platform our cars are based on had about another 5 model years left, which would bring the Challenger in its current form to model year 2014. Then the platform would be replaced with a smaller one, which would undoubtedly kill the car OR bring about a restyle/new model.

See video here. There are two parts:

MotoMan - The Muscle Car Future of Ralph Gilles Part One - YouTube

StealthChallenger
01-05-2012, 03:56 PM
Ralph Gilles said back in 2010 that the current LX platform our cars are based on had about another 5 model years left, which would bring the Challenger in its current form to model year 2014. Then the platform would be replaced with a smaller one, which would undoubtedly kill the car OR bring about a restyle/new model.

See video here. There are two parts:

MotoMan - The Muscle Car Future of Ralph Gilles Part One - YouTube

Justinivor
01-05-2012, 04:05 PM
A smaller platform would be nice, if that is the case. What platform would they use? To make the Challenger a viable production vehicle, it has to share its platform with the Charger and the 300. If Chrysler/Fiat uses a smaller platform, it would necessitate splitting the production lines or re-tasking them in some manner; that's big $$.

Doozle
01-06-2012, 07:13 AM
Nobody in their right mind even counts the 78-82 Dodge Challenger as a part of this group. They are seen as an abomination, bastardization of the Challenger name. The only thing the two cars even share are the "Challenger" script logos on the front fenders. If it makes you feel better call it a Mitsubishi "Galant" or a Plymouth "Saporro", just don't call it a Dodge Challenger. Consider this, when was the last time you saw any of the above vehicles on the road? There see, out of sight out of mind!

runner2go
01-06-2012, 09:28 AM
:nono:You forgot the fact that the much cooler 70/71 sidemarkers were replaced in 72 with the corporate side markers that went on everything. Yes I know that's not a major change but they did also change the front grill, rear taillights (and obviously the taillight panel as well), plus the added 5-mph bumperettes. Again none of this was huge stuff but the model was also late to the party being that it only debuted in 1970 when the Mustang and Camaro both had huge head starts with building their reputations. Had the Challenger been first during the last muscle car war then I have no doubts that it too would have survived the test of time and remained in continuous production. Change HAS to come in order for the car to survive. Many of us don't like it but it is a necessity. No matter how much better you make the car beneath the wrapper people will still associate it with their first contact with that model. Take a look at the Dodge Ram. When the 1st Gen. body was released in 1972 it was a major change for Dodge and they sold well. The next completely new Ram was in 1994, 22 years later. Now, I personally love all of the generations of the Ram but just look at the sales numbers.



If there is no change, no improvement, public opinion (sales) will decline when all the models that are in the same segment are willing to take the risk and move forward.
Not all change is good change...
If they had left the 70 run all 4 years untouched except for bumpers they would have sold more. None of the changes they made back in the 70s were excepted very well at the time. But back then car makers always changed something, even if only grill or tail lights, every year. The 73-74 were nearly the same, ony because the 74s were basically left over 73's

Moving to your truck example...
The 94 Ram & the 1st gen Durango were big hits & still selling well when they decided to change them into big ugly monsters. The Ram survived in its new ugly form becuase people need trucks & it has a better interior. The new Durango was so ugly it eventualy died... I've yet to meet someone who likes the gen2 over the gen1

So change is not always good...
the new pussified 300 is not beating the sales figures of the car it replaced either.

MoparOhio
01-06-2012, 09:48 AM
The reason the 1994 RAM and beyond sold so well is that the previous generation was so far obsolete compared to Ford and Chevy only die hards bought it. It was an antique being sold as new and not competitive at all.

The LX platform will go away in 2015 when the Charger/300 move to a new platform. Who knows if the Challenger will live beyond that as is. They cannot deny that a performance 2 door should be in the Dodge lineup... I doubt that the Challenger will live more than a year after the Charger/300 moves to the new platform.

mgnorth
01-07-2012, 11:20 AM
Not all change is good change...
If they had left the 70 run all 4 years untouched except for bumpers they would have sold more. None of the changes they made back in the 70s were excepted very well at the time. But back then car makers always changed something, even if only grill or tail lights, every year. The 73-74 were nearly the same, ony because the 74s were basically left over 73's

Moving to your truck example...
The 94 Ram & the 1st gen Durango were big hits & still selling well when they decided to change them into big ugly monsters. The Ram survived in its new ugly form becuase people need trucks & it has a better interior. The new Durango was so ugly it eventualy died... I've yet to meet someone who likes the gen2 over the gen1

So change is not always good...
the new pussified 300 is not beating the sales figures of the car it replaced either.

I totally agree that not all change is good - which is why I think they have a problem now. They got it right - so much so that any changes would just be for the sake of change (IMO).
The statement about the 70s may not be true though - back then it was normal and expected that you could tell one year from another somehow - everyone changed something (even if minor, it was visible). You can tell looking at almost any car what year it is if you know what to look for. In some cases, that meant changes that were not better (or sometimes even as good) but I doubt they could have gotten away with 4 years without appearance changes back then.

JeffsGonePlumCrazy
01-07-2012, 06:28 PM
Chrysler needs to make an answer to the ecoboost f150, make a ram with a twin turbo 3.6 pentastar. The ecoboost trucks are selling like hotcakes every other one I see seems like has it. In doing this they can trickle down this engine into the L platform cars, imagine these cars with the 8 speed and a light aluminum twin turbo v6. This would open up a whole market of buyers, I believe it would blow sales up for them with an engine with good power, exceptional fuel economy, thats what people want. Chrysler could also use it in the GC and Durango. The Ram is a good looking truck, but for stole the show with its new line up of engines. Ford also spreads the ecoboost engine around as well, the Taurus SHO, Flex, and the F150. Make it around 380hp 420tq and watch sales pour in.

ND RAM
01-08-2012, 08:18 AM
Not all change is good change...
If they had left the 70 run all 4 years untouched except for bumpers they would have sold more. None of the changes they made back in the 70s were excepted very well at the time. But back then car makers always changed something, even if only grill or tail lights, every year. The 73-74 were nearly the same, ony because the 74s were basically left over 73's

Moving to your truck example...
The 94 Ram & the 1st gen Durango were big hits & still selling well when they decided to change them into big ugly monsters. The Ram survived in its new ugly form becuase people need trucks & it has a better interior. The new Durango was so ugly it eventualy died... I've yet to meet someone who likes the gen2 over the gen1

So change is not always good...
the new pussified 300 is not beating the sales figures of the car it replaced either.

I understand and fully agree that not all change is good, even if necessary. As for the Gen. 1 Challenger I actually think that the "changes" helped to keep what modest sales Dodge could muster alive. The big engines were gone and the Raylle was a modestly successful seller during the insurance crackdown. Plus some of the changes were federal mandates (see 5-mph bumperettes).

I am completely with you on the Durango. I loved the first Gen Durango (even if not quite as good as the Ram Charger) but the Gen. 2 Durango (now mercifully deceased) was butt ugly with lines only a brick mason could love. The Ram survived (and even thrived) despite the facelift because of the technology, not just based on it's looks. When someone looks and sees a Gen. 3 Ram the first thing that always comes to mind is "HEMI". How many people still remember the "That thing got a HEMI?" commercials?:bigthumb: The Gen. 2 Rams do look better IMO (the current Ram is a beautiful step in the right direction though) but there is no denying that the Gen. 3 Rams are a whole lot faster. Even the Gen. 3 Rams had a minor facelift in 06 with the addition of what I refer to as the "Freightliner lights".

That new "pussified" 300 is beating the recent sales numbers for the last 300 model, even if it is not beating the peak sales numbers for the last car. The 300 remained untouched for long enough that sales grew stagnate. Why buy a new 300 when there are a million nice used 300s for thousands cheaper that look feel and drive exactly the same? The new 300's interior will have a lot to do with it's success plus the current design really isn't that far from its predecessor. Also with the 2011 300's remember that MY '11 was a short year with production beginning late and being affected bye the pigmant shortage thanks to the Asian tsunami. 6% might not seem like much but it is huge for a volume car like the 300 for Chrysler or the Charger is for Dodge.

Sales figures from July 2011.

Chrysler Brand

Chrysler brand sales increased 5 percent in July, driven by sales of the all-new Chrysler 300 full-size sedan and the new Chrysler 200 mid-size sedan. Sales of the Chrysler 200, star of the award-winning “Born of Fire” Super Bowl commercial, increased 111 percent in July compared with sales a year ago by the model’s previous generation. Sales of the Chrysler 300 were up 6 percent in July, compared to the same month a year ago. Chrysler brand car sales – combined sales of the Chrysler 200 and the Chrysler 300 – increased 66 percent in July compared with the same month in 2010.

http://media.chrysler.com/newsrelease.do;jsessionid=68A9C1211BB873D405F79A5648447213?&id=11225&mid=2

runner2go
01-08-2012, 09:12 PM
I understand and fully agree that not all change is good, even if necessary. As for the Gen. 1 Challenger I actually think that the "changes" helped to keep what modest sales Dodge could muster alive. The big engines were gone and the Raylle was a modestly successful seller during the insurance crackdown. Plus some of the changes were federal mandates (see 5-mph bumperettes).

I am completely with you on the Durango. I loved the first Gen Durango (even if not quite as good as the Ram Charger) but the Gen. 2 Durango (now mercifully deceased) was butt ugly with lines only a brick mason could love. The Ram survived (and even thrived) despite the facelift because of the technology, not just based on it's looks. When someone looks and sees a Gen. 3 Ram the first thing that always comes to mind is "HEMI". How many people still remember the "That thing got a HEMI?" commercials?:bigthumb: The Gen. 2 Rams do look better IMO (the current Ram is a beautiful step in the right direction though) but there is no denying that the Gen. 3 Rams are a whole lot faster. Even the Gen. 3 Rams had a minor facelift in 06 with the addition of what I refer to as the "Freightliner lights".

That new "pussified" 300 is beating the recent sales numbers for the last 300 model, even if it is not beating the peak sales numbers for the last car. The 300 remained untouched for long enough that sales grew stagnate. Why buy a new 300 when there are a million nice used 300s for thousands cheaper that look feel and drive exactly the same? The new 300's interior will have a lot to do with it's success plus the current design really isn't that far from its predecessor. Also with the 2011 300's remember that MY '11 was a short year with production beginning late and being affected bye the pigmant shortage thanks to the Asian tsunami. 6% might not seem like much but it is huge for a volume car like the 300 for Chrysler or the Charger is for Dodge.

Sales figures from July 2011.



http://media.chrysler.com/newsrelease.do;jsessionid=68A9C1211BB873D405F79A5648447213?&id=11225&mid=2

You can not compare dec 2010 sales with dec 2011 on the 300
There were NO 300's on the lots in dec 2010... just left overs
Our 3 closest Chrysler dealers around here had 1 300 between them the whole month.
They ran out Oct-Nov time frame.... can't sell what you don't have.

If people really liked the new 300 dec 2011 sales should have slaughtered the bare lot dec 2010 sales.
That didn't happen...

pdx.challenger
01-08-2012, 10:29 PM
Nobody in their right mind even counts the 78-82 Dodge Challenger as a part of this group. They are seen as an abomination, bastardization of the Challenger name. The only thing the two cars even share are the "Challenger" script logos on the front fenders. If it makes you feel better call it a Mitsubishi "Galant" or a Plymouth "Saporro", just don't call it a Dodge Challenger. Consider this, when was the last time you saw any of the above vehicles on the road? There see, out of sight out of mind!

If you're this bothered by the '78-'82 Challenger having no relation to the '70-'74 models, you're going to be sorely disappointed in 2015MY. :weird:

RoostKing
01-09-2012, 04:36 AM
If you're this bothered by the '78-'82 Challenger having no relation to the '70-'74 models, you're going to be sorely disappointed in 2015MY. :weird:

Do you have some information, or are you just speculating?

pdx.challenger
01-09-2012, 06:18 AM
Do you have some information, or are you just speculating?

It's my conclusion based on personal research... which compared to many opinions, at least it's based on something. :read: :thinkerg: :D

EDIT: It appears my research may be correct: http://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f5/baraccuda-replace-challenger-2014-a-71109/#post977179

ND RAM
01-09-2012, 07:10 AM
You can not compare dec 2010 sales with dec 2011 on the 300
There were NO 300's on the lots in dec 2010... just left overs
Our 3 closest Chrysler dealers around here had 1 300 between them the whole month.
They ran out Oct-Nov time frame.... can't sell what you don't have.

If people really liked the new 300 dec 2011 sales should have slaughtered the bare lot dec 2010 sales.
That didn't happen...

That's not December 10/11 data, it is July 10/11 data, somewhat old but both cars were fully stocked. Nice to see you didn't actually click the link before dismissing the data offered.

Chrysler Group LLC U.S. Sales Summary Thru July 2011

Doozle
01-10-2012, 06:50 AM
Rumors are that, nothing but rumors until otherwise proven to be true. As for the 2nd gen Challenger version, having one show up to a car show is like having that red headed step child showing up at your family reunion, its a shoestring relationship at best. As for the "rumored" Barracuda, well as long as it looks like an updated version of the car we all know & love, you wont hear me complain. However if its some heretofore new design that no one's seen or its got Valiant lines (yuk), you won't have to worry about me crying sacrilege as there will plenty of Mopar faithful doing more then I ever could in that dept!

MoparOhio
01-11-2012, 04:04 AM
In the auto industry most rumors have some truth to them. Whatever happens it takes 24+ months from start to finish so whatever they have planned is already in motion and is half complete.

fradaj
01-11-2012, 03:44 PM
Isn't the 392 Challenger supposed to get the Supercharger in 2013?

rumpass
01-11-2012, 03:51 PM
Isn't the 392 Challenger supposed to get the Supercharger in 2013?

Thats starting to seem unlikely at this point....but who knows :)