So I was looking at HHP racing's' site. They have a Cam Phase Limiter and claim 30 hp ( 22 corrected ) with tuning. Was the tuning to just remove the CEL or was it a full tune?

I am wondering if the limiter really does give the ~22 rwhp they claim ( yes every car is diff, results vary ) but it just seems you could be putting down some pretty nice numbers if you had a CAI variant, cat back/mids/SRT headers, full tune and the limiter.

I am just wondering about that tune to get those numbers.

anyone have just the limiter installed?

The real point of the limiter is to let you put a cam in without worrying about grenading your engine when a valve smashes into your piston. I doubt anyone has bought JUST the limiter without putting in the cam.

Would be nice if one day we could control this via the computer, like the old honda vtec stuff. They could tune all kinds of things regarding their engines at home.

it was installed in my car with just the phasser and did pick up that hp/tg gains....the tunning is yes for the cel and it did run a full point leaner... we did the cam later and pick up a bunch more power but that did take some tunning and if you guys have any other qustions just let me know...................john

John, just the phase limiter added HP or was it the tune itself. I'm just trying to digest how the limiter alone added the HP. Not saying not true, I just don't know how or why for the claim.
FT

John, just the phase limiter added HP or was it the tune itself. I'm just trying to digest how the limiter alone added the HP. Not saying not true, I just don't know how or why for the claim.
FT
it was from the phase limiter,it was just a tad lean so we just added some fuel...i think you get more power because of less retard on the cam timing.but for the corect anwser you might want to ask josh at hhp....john

Thanks 6speedrt, I understand the retard in timing, but that's not at wot though, I don't think. I just can't wrap my head around it. I got to give him a call, curious I am.
FlatTop

it was from the phase limiter,it was just a tad lean so we just added some fuel...i think you get more power because of less retard on the cam timing.but for the corect anwser you might want to ask josh at hhp....john
That's correct. The cam phaser allows you to adjust the timing beyond the stock set up. So, once you have it installed, you can add adjust your timing and use octane to prevent the engine knock/ping. Basically, your going beyond the timing specs of the factory setup which is limited by the piston/valve clearance. The cam phaser gives you more room. Really though, they are meant for adding a high performance cam.

I think there is some confusion as to this intent of this product. Unlike VTEC equiped Hondas, our cars with VCT cannot have the mechanical cam timing adjusted electronically except by the stock computer. Hondas you can plug in a controller and adjust the amount of cam advance/retard and when it comes on/turns off.

This limits the valve lift options on aftermarket cams. Install a hot cam and the computer has no way of knowing that the valve is open higher and for longer durations. So we get that lovely contact between valve and piston. This limiter will cut down the amount of advance/retard that the cam will cycle through (limited down to 14 crank degrees). You are sacrificing an amount of timing adjustment, but for the benefit of higher lift & longer duration.

I would have to imagine that installing this on a stock VCT cam could yield the sacrifice of the timing limitation, and none of the benefit of higher lift/duration. Since there is less timing retard I also assume that it could help pick up some power as well since it would be the same as mechanically advancing the timing. Guess the dyno will have to tell, theories are always good until test time!

To my understanding, if using the comp cams cam phase limiter you cannot degree the cam as the computer is going to do it for you. If you use the comp cams cam locks then you degree the cam as you would a normal adjustable cam gear, but use locks instead of tightening the sprocket adjustment bolts.

This brings up the question of what are you going to use your car for? turbo? supercharger? all motor street? all motor drag? grocery getter? all this will depect what cam combo/limiter/locks will work for you.:hat:

That's correct. The cam phaser allows you to adjust the timing beyond the stock set up. So, once you have it installed, you can add adjust your timing and use octane to prevent the engine knock/ping. Basically, your going beyond the timing specs of the factory setup which is limited by the piston/valve clearance. The cam phaser gives you more room. Really though, they are meant for adding a high performance cam.

Not sure where your getting your information, But the Phase LIMITER will not let you go past the stock numbers, rather it restricts the cam timing so that you maintain Valve to Piston clearence with a high lift cam.

To the point of using Tuning to adjust this You CAN, the point is computer programing is never 100% all the time, it would take only a fraction of a second to mash up your valves or more. LOCKING the cam timing out with the Phase Limiter is the answer.

Or Chrysler could have designed the engines properly in the first place, with valve relief notches in the pistons big enough to eliminate any possibility of valve to piston contact.

Way to go again, Chrysler "engineers", if that's what you people call yourselves.:headbang:

Or Chrysler could have designed the engines properly in the first place, with valve relief notches in the pistons big enough to eliminate any possibility of valve to piston contact.

Way to go again, Chrysler "engineers", if that's what you people call yourselves.:headbang:

So, does that mean someone could just get new pistons made and not need the phaser then? seems like if that were the case it would have been the cheaper thing to do rather than develop the phaser limiter.

VVT was developed for economy more than anything else. So no matter what cam you put in you would still need to control the cam with some type of limitations even with stock cams no matter if there where valve relief or not.

You Do Know we are talking about HEMI Engines!!!
Dome Pistons 10.5 / 1 Compression.

It would be a waste to design pistons for a stock motor just for the chance someone wants to run a high lift cam.


I think There is a need to get some education on the VVT system before you think about working around it.


Although it Does work to help fuel economy, the real benefit is that the Timing is adjusted Throughout the power Band to generate the best performance (POWER) at any given point .

The 60s engine builders would have loved to have such a system on their engines. (set timing at Idle then only have Vacume advance, How Arcaic is that, VVT to the Rescue)


The Process is a marvel of modern Technology, not to be taken lightly.


An $80 Phase limiter is a much better option than Installing new Pistons and all that would go along with it.

Having done the complete change over to New Ported Heads, 274 VVt Cam and 6.1 intake, I would recomend based on my experiance AND what i can tell from Johns at HHP, Going with Just the New Cam and Phase Limiter. That is where the Gain is made, the other components come into play at much higher RPMs than the Stock Block can handle.

If on the other Hand you want to go all out and Beef-up the Bottom end with Forged components, then your getting Forced Induction power along with Longevity.

I am getting 400 RWHP on my 2010 5.7 below 6000rpms there is more but I am not willing to risk the Cast Crank and Rods at that level.

Trust me unless you need the seat of the pants feeling of a 1000HP engine, you would be happy with the gains.

The Pull from 3000 to 5700 is just incredable.

Here are some Links to my project:

https://picasaweb.google.com/Baskettmail/CAMMY201057HEMIPROJECT?authuser=0&feat=directlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/Baskettmail/CHALLENGEITCAMPROJECT?authuser=0&feat=directlink

Latest Video, STill working to get a lower lopy Idle but not to bad!!:

https://picasaweb.google.com/Baskettmail/2010Challenger57NewCAM?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCN6Rq52lk6v_IA&feat=directlink

speaking about ported eagle heads and a vvt forged bottom end
heres ported heads and forged stroker motor from hhp/bes

john

John,

How did the Heads perform on your Engine

John,

How did the Heads perform on your Engine
we just dynoed it today after we installed the heads.we pick up a nother 25hp and 25tq in the heat.it was close to 100 here............john

Absolutely no way I will believe that a phase limiter added any hp. Sorry, I guess I am the bad guy.

How many cam phaser limiters can I use, and are there diminishing gains with the use of each additional limiter?

Do they need to be grounded?

Absolutely no way I will believe that a phase limiter added any hp. Sorry, I guess I am the bad guy.

I agree. In the old days we advance or retard the cam to move the horsepower and torque around. I'd moved the power and up or down. I believe vvt was implemented to advance the cam at low rom to get more power down low and then advance it up high to get more power up top.

The valve reliefs are made as small as possible for compression and weight (deeper reliefs mean u need thicker piston tops to maintain structural integrity).

So u can't put a bigger cam in or you'll kiss the piston.

So you restrict the cam timing so u can put a bigger cam in and not kiss the piston.

So it only goes to follow that just adding the limiter and not a bigger cam and you'll lose power wherever you limited It.

its a fact.it works and you do see gains..............john

Absolutely no way I will believe that a phase limiter added any hp. Sorry, I guess I am the bad guy.

Mr. Bad Guy - What do you know anyways!?!? Go back to building non-VVT 5.7 motors that run 10.99@122 in 2800DA....

In simple form if you just add the limiter to a stock cam, I'm betting it would be $100 earring for the camgear (useless). If you put in a aftermarket cam it might do some good then, but only in conjunction with the cam. Seems to me that the thing would need be sold with a custom cam to be used only with it. I think it would defeat the point of certain cam profiles by limiting the advance/retard. If they ever get involved with electronically controlling the cam (like in VTEC honda motors) I will consider messing with the timing. Until then no cam earings for me!