: 2012 ZL-1 vs 2013 GT 500
06-28-2012, 06:40 AM
It was an interesting read and I think there is a lot of information to take away from it.
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Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!
06-28-2012, 07:13 AM
When all is said and done, the only winner is the consumer.
06-28-2012, 08:18 AM
Good comparison, although I would much prefer the GT500. Not an auto-crosser so brake fade after a few hot laps never going to be an issue for me. They never mention mods, where the GT500 is a rocketship at the drag strip with only minor changes.
Neither car suits me as a daily driver. The poor visibility out of the Camaro is terrible in traffic, while the GT500 is not really set up to be a daily driver or freeway cruiser. That live axle, so helpful at the drag strip, is a major negative in the real world.
06-28-2012, 12:22 PM
Ford Shelby GT500 vs Chevrolet Camaro ZL1! - Head 2 Head Episode 11 - YouTube
B D HEMI
06-28-2012, 01:21 PM
Excellent video !!! I would say that is as "honest" of a review as one can get ! Both cars are awesome and the challenger has some serious challenges (no pun intended) if wants to be among this company !
06-28-2012, 04:04 PM
That Shelby is just insane in a straight line :) Not a bad looker either! :)
06-29-2012, 05:06 AM
When all is said and done, the only winner is the consumer.
Yes! 662hp and fuel economy.
06-29-2012, 08:50 AM
Once I get a chance, I'll post on some of the similar design/performance cues that each of the big 3 seem to be using/should be taking away from each other.
06-29-2012, 09:11 AM
I prefer handling over straightline speed, so I'd prefer to get the ZL1 to share garage with the Challenger. But this is absolutely a great time to be a car enthusiast!
Think about it! Our cars are pushing 470 horsepower at the crank and THEY are the WUSSES?!?!?! That is insane!
I swear, my dad and I are the perfect ages as car nuts, he was in his 20s in the late 60s / early 70s and I'm in the same age group right now. Man, I can't believe the power they're putting out in Detroit!
06-29-2012, 10:53 AM
So this is seriously an exciting time for Street and Racing Technology.
Here were some key takeaways that I think can be applicable to all of the big 3.
- Brake ducts/functionality. I think the Shelby learned this the hard way based on the article (brake fade) and it is something that SRT and Dodge started to do correct starting in 2010-2011. There was a comment during one of the SRT Chat sessions about "why would we have a duct on a vehicle if it is not functional". As a result, Dodge/SRT listened and everything from a functional hood to functional brake ducts has been implemented. This is also apparent in the new 2013 Viper.
- Active Suspension. From a daily driver standpoint, an active suspension is a great improvement. It provides flexibility between road environments. All of the big 3 have this feature, although, Chevy has borrowed the Magnetic system from the Corvette. None the less, it's good to see all big 3 implement some sort of suspension system that is flexible. Granted, from a cost/maintenance perspective it is more but that's something to be expected.
- Launch Control. This is something that Dodge/SRT is catching up on but as a takeaway from the others, it is something they know they need to implement. With the amount of power that is being put down, you have to be able to control it. As mentioned, this is projected as a reality for SRT and Dodge in middle to late 2013 for the model year.
- Balance. This is something I think SRT is doing very, very well. They may not have the top tier horsepower figures running for them, but they manage to produce a very well balanced, all around, driving experience. I think this article expresses that, although you can have bragging rights for the top amount of horsepower, you still need to have overall balance in all performance arenas of the vehicle (suspension, handling, braking). Although we consistently hound Dodge for being "late to the game", we are still very assured that what they produce is very well balanced as reflected by the 2011+ model years and definitely by the release of the 2013 Viper. More importantly, Dodge/SRT is more intuned and connected with the consumer base as ever before, as exhibited by the SRT High Performance Tour, the SRT Track Experience, the SRT Call Center and the SRT Chat Sessions.
I think in the end, Dodge/SRT is moving in the right direction. We might be disappointed that the horsepower figures are not the top tier (even some were complaining that the Viper wasn't a 700hp vehicle), but really, is it only horsepower that matters? I think the Shelby here and the article critique gives us a good indicator of that when we apply it to the type of driving environment that most of the consumers will take the vehicle on, that being regular street driving with the occasional track/autocross on the weekends. In all, the projected 6.2L Supercharged hemi for the Barracuda and the hopeful 6.4L Supercharged Mopar Kit might not be the top tier in the horsepower war numbers, but it will be plenty to balance out the movement of a 4300lbs vehicle that is comfortable enough to cruise across the United States and flexible enough to perform just as well and if not better than the competition on the tracks.
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!
06-29-2012, 11:58 AM
I think the Shelby learned this the hard way based on the article (brake fade)
Not trying to pick sides, but I find it strangely odd that C/D said that the Shelby's brakes were "fade free" and know M/T says that the Shelby's breaks are its weak point. :dunno:
I think in the end, Dodge/SRT is moving in the right direction.
Yes and I know the SRT team was one of the first in line to buy the '13 GT500 and '12 ZL1 to benchmark their 6.2L SC Challenger against.
07-03-2012, 04:00 PM
Sounds like the shelby would dominate with better brakes. I wonder if the mustangs greater acceleration contributes to the brake fade. It would be interesting to know each cars speed and times between exiting and entering corners.
07-03-2012, 04:25 PM
...more importantly, Dodge/SRT is more intuned and connected with the consumer base as ever before, as exhibited by the SRT High Performance Tour, the SRT Track Experience, the SRT Call Center and the SRT Chat Sessions...
I agree with all your points on brake duct, launch control, balance, etc. However, I have to give SRT low marks on customer focus until / unless they can successfully resolve the tuning issue. In current form, SRT = Stock Restricted Tuning. Fine for stock street cars but totally uncompetitive with the tunable GM & Ford offerings. At one time, Chrysler supported their enthusiasts while the GM and Ford guys were crying foul.
From Mopar Muscle:
"...along with the more docile Super Stocks came the immensely popular Performance Clinics. Sox & Martin carried the banner for the Plymouth Division on the East Coast, while **** Landy was their West Coast counterpart for Dodge Division. Staged at dealerships, the clinics lured new customers into Plymouth and Dodge dealers by teaching basic as well as advanced drag racing techniques. The clinics covered engines, tuning, chassis prep and tuning, and driving tips, all from the well-traveled, well-schooled clinic stars-Sox & Martin. New car dealers loved the clinics, and reportedly sold thousands of cars as a direct result. The clinics also enhanced awareness of drag racing and increased attendance at local tracks. It was a win-win situation all around when the S&M hauler ramp truck and second race car on an open trailer parked in front of a local Plymouth dealer's showroom. Sox and Martin were the epitome of professionalism for a race team. They dressed in matching uniforms and handled questions with articulate aplomb, capturing legions of fans for Chrysler vehicles and Mopar Performance parts.
Chrysler's two divisions liked the race results and sales they were generating with their drag racing programs. Bolstered by this success, they placed their engineering focus on creating vehicles, parts, and support that would dominate drag racing."
Read more: Mopar Plymouth Race Car Driver Ronnie Sox - Mopar Muscle Magazine (http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/thehistoryof/mopp_0609_ronnie_sox_drag_racing/viewall.html#ixzz1zbYVU0L9)