What cold air intake do you use? What is the best one to buy and how much power difference did you see? Please help me pick !!!!!

Very happy with my K&n it had a nice sound and increased throttle response

I've tried a few, and I have seen little power gains at all maybe 1-4 hp which is nothing, you could lose that to the temperature going up 5 degrees. So you take your pick, really at this point with how the computer is, you won't really see much of a gain. Sound might change though. Like all air flow modifiers if you only get one, you're probably not going to see any change at all. You see the air flow has to be opened up throughout, meaning headers, full exhaust system, cold air intake, etc. Otherwise you're just continuing to bottleneck your car. I just took a rounded chunk of metal piping, cut a wider hole where the stock intake went, and threw it in. Didn't see any power gains or losses, so I'm truly not convinced they'll change anything but looks. The powder coated intake piping does look nice right now. :)

The Airaid people were always nice to deal with, worked well for me.

this is what happens when people do not actively participate on ChallengerTalk for weeks or months - or in the OP's case, an entire year.

then, when they need a question answered, they come start threads like this.

i would suggest doing a search in this section on intakes - you'll get 8-12 threads that will pop up instantly.

read through them and make your decision......

Cervini's ram air because it gets rid of the ugly rug under the hood. 2nd choice would be the Mopar one just for the looks.

this is what happens when people do not actively participate on ChallengerTalk for weeks or months - or in the OP's case, an entire year.

then, when they need a question answered, they come start threads like this.

i would suggest doing a search in this section on intakes - you'll get 8-12 threads that will pop up instantly.

read through them and make your decision......

I agree with Litos, use the search function and you will find a plethora of information pertaining to CAIs, especially since they are the most talked about subject on here, with exhaust and catch cans coming in 2nd and 3rd.

That said, the Legmaker is tried and true design, made of carbon fiber, which yields one of the best, if not, THE best results in terms of real world HP and TQ.

Personally I can't justify buying a CAI since my air intake setup works fine for a daily driver. However, if I had to choose one it would be the LM1 AirHammer, or the LM Frankenstein IV. AFE Stage II receives top praise too.

Good luck!

Lots of good choices out there, the best performing intakes, and our biggest sellers are our Speedlogix Carbon Intake (dyno proven 11rwhp) or the LMI fender mount.
SX Intake
Speedlogix Carbon Fiber Cold Air Intake Kit 11-12 Challenger, Charger, 300 392/6.4L (http://www.speedlogixstore.com/product_p/sx-cai-cf-392.htm)

LMI Fender Mount
LMI Fender Mount Cold Air Intake 11-12 Challenger, Charger, 300 392/6.4L (http://www.speedlogixstore.com/product_p/lmi-392-f.htm)

You can see these and other options from K&N, Mopar and AFE among others here
392 Hemi V8 (http://www.speedlogixstore.com/category_s/23731.htm)

Let us know how we can help

Thanks for the help eveyone. I think that I will go with one from speedlogix when I decide (STR8U thanks). As far as other threads about CAI's I apreciate your feedback about reading other peoples but I see I'm not the only one still creating new ones at this point.

Thanks for the help eveyone. I think that I will go with one from speedlogix when I decide. As far as other posts threads about CAI's I apreciate your feedback about reading other thread,s but I see I'm not the only one still creating new one at this point.

absolutely. This is a living thread. With so many changes and options there is nothing wrong with you asking. If I went by researching older threads I would prob make a bad choice. 392 mods are fairly new.....so keep asking and adding new threads. :respect:

Thanks for the help eveyone. I think that I will go with one from speedlogix when I decide (STR8U thanks). As far as other threads about CAI's I apreciate your feedback about reading other peoples but I see I'm not the only one still creating new ones at this point.
might as well get the Zoomers exhaust from them as well lol.

and the catch can and the strut bar.

you'll be good for a long time with that...

Your 392's stock air intake essentially is a CAI. Aside from looking cool and slightly modifying the sound, an aftermarket CAI really won't do much for you. A better bet would be to spend your $300-$400 on a bigger throttle body. It will yield performance improvements you can actually measure and feel.

- Rob

^^^^^ HAHAHA !!!!

you told a guy to not spend $300-400 on a quality intake, but then back it up by saying he needs to get a TB instead !?!?

awesome...........

Just installed an Airaid CAI. Looks good and sounds good although not a much as I was expecting. Throttle response seems quicker but I think its mostly the sound. Bottom line...for $130 shipped (auto anything coupon and $50 off from airaid) I'm thrilled as long as I am not losing any power!

OK..now getting my Litos:soapbox: Flame suit on!! :icon_flaming::icon_flaming::icon_flaming::icon_flaming::ico n_flaming::icon_flaming:

^^^^^ HAHAHA !!!!

you told a guy to not spend $300-400 on a quality intake, but then back it up by saying he needs to get a TB instead !?!?

awesome...........

I'm not sure I get your point, but I have both a Mopar CAI and a Fastman 85mm TB, and the TB by far yields more tangible results. The CAI really does nothing performance-wise, whereas the TB improves throttle response to a large degree. All I was suggesting was that if he was going to spend $300-$400, he would be best served buying the throttle-body.

I chose to go with the Mopar CAI. Looks great, nice sound and droped my 0-60 time about a half a second.

I'm not sure I get your point, but I have both a Mopar CAI and a Fastman 85mm TB, and the TB by far yields more tangible results. The CAI really does nothing performance-wise, whereas the TB improves throttle response to a large degree. All I was suggesting was that if he was going to spend $300-$400, he would be best served buying the throttle-body.


so where are you getting your tangible results? butt dyno? I gained 11 rwhp with my cai and did a dyno to show before/after. doubt a ported throtle body will give those results and yes I have had a few ported throtle bodies on my cars. most I ever got from a throtle body was 3-4 rwhp

You will experience some feel with a tb, meaning increased throttle response, but a good cai will out gain a throttle body every time, both are great mods, but the cai will show ou more real hp gains.

I see alot of CAI for sale in the parts for sale section. Almost one per day of all different sorts.

Almost all of them go something like this "blank 392 CAI FS hardly used for one week"

Most are for sale at half price. This kinda tells me that alot of people buy them and aren't happy with them for the 392 probably cuz there isn't too much difference from the stock one.

Just my $.02 from what I noticed.....

^^^^^ HAHAHA !!!!

you told a guy to not spend $300-400 on a quality intake, but then back it up by saying he needs to get a TB instead !?!?

awesome...........

Was just about to say that!

I see alot of CAI for sale in the parts for sale section. Almost one per day of all different sorts.

Almost all of them go something like this "blank 392 CAI FS hardly used for one week"

Most are for sale at half price. This kinda tells me that alot of people buy them and aren't happy with them for the 392 probably cuz there isn't too much difference from the stock one.

Just my $.02 from what I noticed.....

The stock does produce a smoother throttle transition than a short air intake.

Keeping the intake stock, you won't lose power on the low end because of the higher intake temperatures a short CAI will produce in idle / stop n go driving. However, the gains from 4800 to 6400 in torque are quite substantial (20 lb/ft rwtq at 4,800 rpm) for the 392 that offset the low end loses.

Focus on the torque gains the short CAI produces.

Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app

I'm not sure I get your point,
let me help.

please refer to post#17, 18 and 20.

Lots of good choices out there, the best performing intakes, and our biggest sellers are our Speedlogix Carbon Intake (dyno proven 11rwhp) or the LMI fender mount.
SX Intake
Speedlogix Carbon Fiber Cold Air Intake Kit 11-12 Challenger, Charger, 300 392/6.4L (http://www.speedlogixstore.com/product_p/sx-cai-cf-392.htm)

LMI Fender Mount
LMI Fender Mount Cold Air Intake 11-12 Challenger, Charger, 300 392/6.4L (http://www.speedlogixstore.com/product_p/lmi-392-f.htm)

You can see these and other options from K&N, Mopar and AFE among others here
392 Hemi V8 (http://www.speedlogixstore.com/category_s/23731.htm)

Let us know how we can help

Your aFe magnum force stage 2 is stated to produce 18 more max horsepower. How does it compare to the other 2 you have listed for me? If the stock intake is as good as people are saying what about just a high flow filter?

Your aFe magnum force stage 2 is stated to produce 18 more max horsepower. How does it compare to the other 2 you have listed for me? If the stock intake is as good as people are saying what about just a high flow filter?

The stock intake is very good, however, the CAI is better for performance because it sucks in MORE air into your intake. More air = more power. Throwing a high flow panel filter in your stock air box will not do anything in terms of HP. In fact, there was a study done recently showing a Mustang GT with and without the high flow filter. It lost 4hp or so with the drop in filter. High flow panel filters don't flow that much better than stock to warrant any sig. HP gains. CAIs(some not all) have been proven to add 8-11rwhp. That's a nice bump from just an intake system.

For a stock or mainly stock application I would stick with the OEM filter. I would only consider the drop in filter if you don't want to keep buying air filters. That being said, in my experience the OEM filter is much smoother, and performs better than a K&N drop in.

...droped my 0-60 time about a half a second.

1/2 a second???

It must have been soaked in liquid N2O...

1/2 a second???

It must have been soaked in liquid N2O...
WOW! half a second.....I have to agree with the N20.

its engine bay decoration with a little extra sound. I owned Air Raid bought it at a very reasonable price say $170 about 10 months ago....Sold it for $100 after I scored a Mopar for $175. The Mopar unit is a better fitting unit but its not worth $400 bucks....for the price...Airaid works perfect....Keep your airbox, don't sell it you never know when you will change your mind and reinstall it. Best bet buy one "like new" used unit from a forum member...

its engine bay decoration with a little extra sound. I owned Air Raid bought it at a very reasonable price say $170 about 10 months ago....Sold it for $100 after I scored a Mopar for $175. The Mopar unit is a better fitting unit but its not worth $400 bucks....for the price...Airaid works perfect....Keep your airbox, don't sell it you never know when you will change your mind and reinstall it. Best bet buy one "like new" used unit from a forum member...

I have an AirAid on mine. Curious, How is the MOPAR CAI a better fit?? The AirAid fits pretty good!

I have an AirAid on mine. Curious, How is the MOPAR CAI a better fit?? The AirAid fits pretty good!
there was another thread floating around here last week where 2 or 3 or 4 forum members were having issues with the filter banging up against the hood or something like that.

Airraid had to send some extra or new peices or something.

i feel bad for the guy above you though - he paid almost $500 for an intake that "now works" HAHA !!!!

i paid $250 for my legmaker that ALWAYS works and has been proven to work the best for over 5 or 6 years.....

What do you guys think of the Cervini setup that makes the hood scoops functional??

I did a search back to when they first came out on the market for the 5.7's and some Cervini rep said they were going to get dyno results....but they never posted them. It just looks like a neat piece that would draw in cooler air than what you'd find under-hood....but I'd rather not debate about that, just your overall opinion on it would be fine.

there was another thread floating around here last week where 2 or 3 or 4 forum members were having issues with the filter banging up against the hood or something like that.

Airraid had to send some extra or new peices or something.

i feel bad for the guy above you though - he paid almost $500 for an intake that "now works" HAHA !!!!

i paid $250 for my legmaker that ALWAYS works and has been proven to work the best for over 5 or 6 years.....

Oh, OK, Thanks!

What do you guys think of the Cervini setup that makes the hood scoops functional??

... It just looks like a neat piece that would draw in cooler air than what you'd find under-hood....but I'd rather not debate about that, just your overall opinion on it would be fine.

I have it and I like it. I'm not a big believer in the "Ram Air" concept and don't intend to get into CAI or RAM AIR argument, they've both been played out on this forum time and time again. Having said that, the Cervini's add a little coolness factor to to under-the-hood. It does a better job of isolating the filter in a box rather than with a piece of sheet metal. It eliminates the blanket under the hood and can be easily painted or custom painted, adding some more cool (not literally cool) factor.

Now, here is my concern about the Cervini's setup. The filter inside the box pushes into the opening on the box. Because the filter fits into, rather than over, the tube on the filter has to be a reduced size. The opening from the filter is 72.4mm according to my calipers so you are reducing the intake opening form 80mm down to 72 ish.

How much is this going to effect performance? Probably not much on a fairly stock car. Since I'm running forced induction I am going to do some modifying of the Cervini's setup to eliminate this reduction in intake size.

The Cervinis set-up does look interesting. Too bad there wasn't a before/after dyno. I've been on the fence for a while now on which CAI to get.... Wish one of their reps would shed some light on their product...


Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app

The Cervinis set-up does look interesting. Too bad there wasn't a before/after dyno. I've been on the fence for a while now on which CAI to get.... Wish one of their reps would shed some light on their product...
Exactly how I feel about it....It kinda makes you think there's a reason they (Cervini) didn't supply a before/after dyno test....

BTW R/T_6Speed - Love your ride! If I would have held onto my R/T, I would have set mine up very simular to yours. Thanks for the input on the Cervini setup!

Thanks GS! Really I'm not sure any of the CAI's are going to make much difference. Claims are easy to make but when you're talking 5-8 hp on a dyno to me that can be attributed to any # of transient conditions. If I had it to do all over again I would have probably went with the Speedlogix hood with the big scoop. If nothing else it would serve as a nice heat vent in the staging lanes.

^^^^^ HAHAHA !!!!

you told a guy to not spend $300-400 on a quality intake, but then back it up by saying he needs to get a TB instead !?!?

awesome...........

Ah, the Internet Forum Bully... Such a cunning and savage beast that hides behind a keyboard in the dark to vent the frustrations he cannot cure in real life. And to see him hunt in packs no less, with his equally brave cohorts DADSTOY and 2BLU4U, like a bunch of scrappy dogs!

Unfortunately, unlike most of your victims around here, I come armed with facts. So sit back, read carefully and allow your rage to boil over.

For starters, you will notice in my original post I made no mention of BHP gains in regards to CAIs vs. a modded TB. That's because horsepower is often of secondary concern in modifying a performance car's intake and exhaust systems. What is of much more importance than a miserable few extra ponies that can be gained by a CAI, is improved DRIVEABILITY across the powerband that a quality TB can offer. Throttle response and sensitivity are the biggest benefits that a ported or oversized TB will yield, and these are MUCH more noticeable in average driving than the paltry addition of a CAI's 2-10 BHP gain, which you can't even quantify with a butt dyno on a 470hp car, and is even disputable on a proper shop dyno. Let's say you dynoed your CAI modded car on Tuesday at 3:00PM at 80 degrees and 70% humidity and gained 11 BHP as you claim. Guess what? By 10:30PM at 50 degrees and 80%, your results will be totally different. So how can YOU qualify these supposed gains?

Secondly, the entire principle of maximizing power and drivability through modding the intake system on a performance car equates directly to the efficiency of the intake in terms of the VENTURI EFFECT. Putting the math and science aside, as I'm sure those studies were not your strong suit before you dropped out of high school, the Venturi Effect is an aerodynamic principle, used by aerospace engineers for decades, that proves that increased air speed creates low pressure when said air is accelerated from a large air space through a narrowing chamber. This effect was first incorporated into automotive use in the late 1970s by creating Ground Effects on Formula 1 cars by adding skirted, narrowing chamber bottoms to the cars. These chambers created a low pressure zone under the car as the air accelerated beneath it, making the air rushing over the car's bodywork much heavier, resulting in increased downforce. What is interesting is that the faster you go in such a car, the more it sticks to the ground.

How does any of this scary Venturi Effect stuff relate to a CAI and a throttle body, you are undoubtedly asking out loud in your basement room of your mom’s house? Well, let me edumakate you. A Venturi Effect is created by having a large source of air funneled into an increasingly narrowing chamber as previously stated. Of particular importance is that you have the largest chamber placed just before the constriction begins. Think of the throttle body as the large chamber, and the intake beyond it as the narrowing chamber. The larger the throttle body bore, the greater the Venturi Effect. The resulting Venturi Effect accelerates air more quickly into the intake where it can be more efficiently ignited with the fuel in the combustion chambers to create power. Much like in the case of ground effect on Formula 1 cars where the faster you go, the more the car sticks to the ground via increased downforce, the same applies here: the wider the TB bore is the quicker the air can rush in, creating more power across the entire rev range.

Thirdly and finally, since the 392’s STOCK intake is already an enclosed cold air intake that draws air from the very same from the source as your aftermarket CAI, the temperature of the air is essentially the same. The volume of air entering the air hose leading to the throttle body is, in fact, slightly increased due to a larger surface on the aftermarket CAI's filter element, but this increased airflow is virtually moot if the throttle body is smaller (stock 80mm vs. 84-90mm aftermarket) as a bottleneck of air is created in this case BEFORE induction occurs, thus limiting a CAI's effectiveness.

So there you have it. Some actual science to refute your knowledge obviously gleaned by listening to what other idiots around internet forums have told you in the past. This is science that I learned through two higher degrees and two years spent professionally racing Formula Renault racecars in Europe, dealing with and learning from engineers and mechanics that are now working in the highest forms of motorsport including ALMS, Indycar and Formula 1. I stand by my assertion that a ported throttle body is a sound investment for a 392, and will yield TANGIBLE results, as opposed to results you can’t feel, and can barely measure.

Now go back to torturing small animals, and having your mom cook your meatloaf for you.

Cheers,

Rob

Back on topic to the ops original question of which CAI.

For a true cold air intake, stick with the stock airbox or get the LMI Carbon fiber True Cold Air intake.

For short air intakes: aFe Stage II, Airaid, Speedlogix Intake, Legmaker Frankentake IV, K&N. For the most part, all have similar torque gains from 4800-6400 rpm.

From a pure cost perspective, you can get an Airaid non-oil filter intake on AutoAnything for $137 after discount, free shipping, and $50 mail in rebate.

Pros
- Short intakes have proven a 15-20 lbs/ft rwtq increases from 4800-6400 rpm as tested by individual forum members
- Short intakes have improved 1/4mi times by 1-2 tenths (depends on vehicle weight too) as independently tested by forum members.

Cons
- Short intakes lose power due to higher intake temperatures during idle and stop n go driving. This was confirmed by a Charger forum member that tested the Airaid vs the Stock box. It sat idle for 5 minutes and the end result was: short intake 175 deg F, stock intake 150 deg F in 100 deg F ambient temps. It took the short intake 2 minutes to reach 110 deg F and 5 minutes for the stock to reach 110 deg F. All of that said, the stock air box had a 10-25 deg F cooler air advantage over the short intake for the first 35 seconds as calculated out.



Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app

On a related tangent, a true, properly designed ram-air system actually does outperform a conventional CAI.

On the same 5.7 Ram at the same track on the same day, the Vararam intake consistently outperformed the Ramhammer intake by 0.15 sec and 1.5 MPH (3 runs each, PCM reset between runs). And here's the kicker - the 60' and 660' times for both intakes were virtually identical. ALL of the gains from the Vararam occurred between 660' and 1320'. So this particular ram-air design absolutely works; I can't speak to the efficacy of any other designs, only the Vararam.

I chose to go with the Mopar CAI. Looks great, nice sound and droped my 0-60 time about a half a second.

Man! I gotta get one of these babies!

Lets not forget the Airaid $50 rebate. With auto anything comes to $127 delivered. Can't beat that deal.....so I went with it. Now waiting on my fastman ported TB to arrive. B&G tune, cai, ported tb and speedlogix/zoomers cat back......I think l am going to feel a big difference with all these working together.

I stand by my assertion that a ported throttle body is a sound investment for a 392
no one is saying a TB is not beneficial for the 392, but thanks for playing the game anyways.

what you said is to save the $300-400 and NOT get an intake and then spend that money on a TB.

so all that gibberish you posted in that post is completely useless and irrelevent.

NO ONE is going to NOT buy an intake and just get a TB - because that's stupid (see the posts i was referring to)

so you raced Renaults for 2 years in a different country !?!?

cool - that's probably the main reason why you're wrong about simple mods for a HEMI.

and having your mom cook your meatloaf for you.

aawww yes, the fall back post for someone that completely lacks weaponry....

"mom's house blah blah blah"

"basement, blah blah blah"

"did your mom wash your clothes blah blah blah"

i have a 100lb wife cooking in the kitchen - when was the last time your wife weighed 100lbs................................

I love this forum! I'm turning the TV off. The Olympics can wait. This is just way too entertaining. And it happens all the time!

Behave guys! :)

All of the data, etc, blah blah blah aside, here's the long and short of it all if you're looking to improve upon the stock 392 airbox.

1. Legmaker Fender Pull Intake (long pull)
2. Speedlogix, Legmaker Frank IV
3. Airaid, aFe Stage II
4. Mopar, K&N

The Stock Air Box
As mentioned, the stock box is already a "cold air intake" and it seals to the lower, triangular fender air hole. By design, you could just get an AEM dryflow filter (non-oiled) or a K&N Drop-in filter. Here are the stock air box specs:

- OEM Filter: Dust Capacity 759,(@ 487cfm), 731cfm max airflow, 98.5% efficiency @ 2.0 in H20; filter surface area 83.8125 sq/in.
- Lower air hole: 15 sq/in
- Intake tube: 12.56 sq/in (4" diameter - 101mm).
- Throttle Body: 7.78 sq/in (3.1496" diameter - 80mm)
- Post throttle body: 7.78 sq/in (3.1496" diameter - 80mm), further reduces

http://dodgeforum.com/forum/members/badstratrt-albums-dodgeforum-com-drives-the-new-2011-dodge-charger-challenger-durango-and-journey-picture24360-the-engine-of-the-2011-dodge-challenger-srt8-392.jpg

Deciding Air Intakes/Changes to OEM

When deciding on an alternative to the stock OEM setup, we have to show that the aftermarket will be an improvement over stock.

Filter Surface Area - Restriction
- The stock OEM is 83.8125 sq/in.
- K&N is 127 sq/in
- Mopar TBD
- Speedlogix and Airaid are 176 sq/in
- S&B Reverse Cone 9" filter is 177 sq/in

Induction Tube/Filter - Restriction/Venturi Effect
- OEM goes from 15 (triangle seal) to 12.56 (round 4" tube) to 7.78 sq/in (throttle body)
- Speedlogix and Airaid reduce from 28.26 (6" filter bell) to 12.56 (round 4" tube) to 7.78 sq/in (throttle body)
- K&N reduce from 28.26 (6" inner filter bell) to 12.56 (round 4" tube) to 7.78 sq/in (throttle body)
- Legmaker Frank IV from 33.17 (6.5" inner filter bell) to 12.56 (round 4" tube) to 7.78 sq/in (throttle body)
- Legmaker True CAI from 33.17 (6.5" inner filter fell) to 12.56 (round 4" tube) to 7.78 sq/in (throttle body)

Heat/Intake Air Temperatures - Closest to ambient as possible
- OEM Seals to the lower fender well
- Legmaker True CAI puts the filter in the fender well
- Others are heatshielded or open element filters

Gains - Torque/HP
- Short intake 1/4mi is good for roughly a 0.1s reduction and 1-2 mph increase.
- Short intakes produce roughly 15-20 lbs/ft rwtq between 4800-6400 rpm. The torque power band also broadens by 500-600 rpm to the right and 250-300rpms to the left.

Maintenance - Time reduction
- The stock OEM filter maintenence is by far the quickest since it is disposable.
- Benefits of a dry filter aftermarket are purely seen from a cost perspective.

Driveability Improvements
- The stock box has a very smooth transition being a sealed cold air setup
- Short intakes will intially lag from start, throttle response will improve from less restriction

Goals
- Bragging rights
- Engine bling
- Driveability improvements

Drop-In Filters

K&N Filter - Drop-in oiled stock replacement - $40.00-50.00

- A K&N Drop-in filter element has a flow of 780 cfm @ 1.5 in H20 vs the stock OEM which is 731 cfm @ 2.0 in H20.
- 332.4 grams @ 240 cfm for course dust vs the stock 759 unknown @ 489 cfm.
- K&N efficiency 98.66% (course dust) vs stock of 98.5% (unknown test dust)
- filter surface area 83.8125 sq/in for both K&N and stock.

Overall, it seems like the K&N is better, however, the data still has too many unknowns to make a solid determination that it is better than stock. From a cost standpoint, replacement OEM filters range from $25-35. A recharge oil kit costs between $15-25.

http://www.pfyc.com/mm5/graphics/new/cr3004.jpg



Short Air Intakes
Pros
- Gains - The short intake designs on the 392 (Speedlogix, Airaid, Legmaker Frankentake IV, aFe Stage II, K&N) are putting down very similar performance # increases especially from 4800-6400 rpm (when the active intake manifold switches to the short runner valve). The 392 Legmaker True CAI Fender Pull has yet to have a posted dyno result / track result.

- Torque Gains - A majority of the dynos have shown between 10-20 RWTQ gains in the midrange once the active manifold kicks in. In the past many were skeptical of "overstated" gains, however, the gains seen on the 392 represent data pulled from independent user testing with various short intake designs.

- 1/4mi improvement imes - the short intakes are good for about a tenth of a second decrease and a 1-2mph trap speed increase.


Cons
- Low Power Loss (only applicable to short intakes) - You will lose some power down low during idle / stop n go driving due to higher than stock intake air temperatures (IATs) - approximately 15-20 deg F higher than stock (as tested in 90 deg F ambient by the Dodge Charger Forum and monitoring IATs with the 8.4in touchscreen).

- Filter maintenance - oiled filters require a reoiling kit and time.

Overall
Both stock and aftermarket will see similar just above ambient IATs while moving. While moving, with similar IATs, you'll get the stated torque gains listed above during WOT. In the 1/4mi run, what you lose down low from higher IATs in the initial 1/8th mile, the short intake makes up for in the 1/8th to 1/4mi finish. So for example, a loss of a tenth in the initial 1/8th, but a gain of 2 tenths in the 1/4mi for an overall gain of a tenth. For filter maintenance, you can get one that doesn't require oil (usually synthetic fibers). Plastic, Rubber, and Carbon fiber are the proven materials to mitigate heat issues with the IAT sensor.

Long Air Intakes

Legmaker Fender Pull - Carbon Fiber - $374.88 - S&B 8-layer cotton oiled filter
Your best performance option. It retains all of the features of the stock element without loss and improves upon them with a larger filter surface area, and filter placement in the ambient air pocket in the fender well. The downside is filter maintenance.
http://a248.e.akamai.net/origin-cdn.volusion.com/gtmo2.k7dxd/v/vspfiles/photos/LMI-392-F-3.jpg


Speedlogix Short Air Intake - Carbon Fiber - $249.88 - S&B 8-layer cotton oiled filter
http://a248.e.akamai.net/origin-cdn.volusion.com/gtmo2.k7dxd/v/vspfiles/photos/SX-CAI-CF-392-4.jpg?1338901416

Legmaker 392 Frankentake IV - Carbon Fiber - $249.99 - S&B 8-layer cotton oiled filter
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee215/GodsRodsHEMI/2011%20Challenger%20IE%20%200925/IMG_3620.jpg

Airaid 392 Intake - $137 (autoanything.com with $50 Airaid mail-in rebate) - Synthamax no-oil reusable filter
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/3678/airaid.jpg

K&N 392 Intake - $291.85 - cotton oiled filter
http://www.knfilters.com/images/l/63-1565_Eng1.jpg

no one is saying a TB is not beneficial for the 392, but thanks for playing the game anyways.

what you said is to save the $300-400 and NOT get an intake and then spend that money on a TB.

so all that gibberish you posted in that post is completely useless and irrelevent.

NO ONE is going to NOT buy an intake and just get a TB - because that's stupid (see the posts i was referring to)

so you raced Renaults for 2 years in a different country !?!?

cool - that's probably the main reason why you're wrong about simple mods for a HEMI.


aawww yes, the fall back post for someone that completely lacks weaponry....

"mom's house blah blah blah"

"basement, blah blah blah"

"did your mom wash your clothes blah blah blah"

i have a 100lb wife cooking in the kitchen - when was the last time your wife weighed 100lbs................................

Litos, don't lower yourself by responding to a guy who resorts to name-calling, & reveals his blatant insecurities by listing his unimpressive educational background & what he considers accomplishments!

Thank You rayzazoo for the informative and on topic post.

Great summary Ray!

Thank You rayzazoo for the informative and on topic post.
X3....great info. Thanks Rayzazoo for posting.

Thanks Rayzazoo, what a great and informative post!!!

Ray, you are the CAI guru here, no doubt about it. After reading all the posts I decided to stick with my 6.1 airbox with stock filter and the 392 sensor swap. I like having that smooth power delivery, especially at low speeds. I immediately felt more low end torque aftering axing the K&N filter. My setup is best for daily driving. However, I was wanting the most HP, and raced my car, I would get the LM1 Frankenstein IV or the LM1 true CAI.

If you want a real gain get a tuned ECU. 3-5 tenths drop in ET and a fun factor that is unmatched by anything in its price range!


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wow, lots of "information" in this thread. I am sorry I have been MIA for a while. I'm am going to put my two cents into the discussion though.....

I have seen 22 horsepower at the tires from a CAI and a ported Tb on a 6.4
Last week we swapped a ported TB on the dyno and back to back pulls it made 8-12 horsepower and torque everywhere and the AFR leaned out.....meaning it was working. That was a 6.1 mind you.

Now the thing none of you want to hear.....

After testing about 15 6.4 cars on the dyno in the last 6 months, you can mod them every which way from Sunday.....they LEARN THEIR WAY OUT OF IT by the time the drive cycle is complete and the trims are mature.

The only way to get a 6.4 car to make power and keep making power is to tune it. Sorry folks.....it is a FACT. Don't believe me, pull your battery ground at the track and let the car sit 30 minutes then make your next pass. There will be a .2 reward for your efffort, if you can drive and hook anyway :)

That is the reason to have a B&G tune.

wow, lots of "information" in this thread. I am sorry I have been MIA for a while. I'm am going to put my two cents into the discussion though.....

I have seen 22 horsepower at the tires from a CAI and a ported Tb on a 6.4
Last week we swapped a ported TB on the dyno and back to back pulls it made 8-12 horsepower and torque everywhere and the AFR leaned out.....meaning it was working. That was a 6.1 mind you.

Now the thing none of you want to hear.....

After testing about 15 6.4 cars on the dyno in the last 6 months, you can mod them every which way from Sunday.....they LEARN THEIR WAY OUT OF IT by the time the drive cycle is complete and the trims are mature.

The only way to get a 6.4 car to make power and keep making power is to tune it. Sorry folks.....it is a FACT. Don't believe me, pull your battery ground at the track and let the car sit 30 minutes then make your next pass. There will be a .2 reward for your efffort, if you can drive and hook anyway :)

Very interesting...& informative info Brian!
So does that mean if you install just a CAI that for argument sake, adds 11hp as measured on dyno at time of installation, as soon as our 392's "learn their way out," that additional 11hp is gone??

Very interesting...& informative info Brian!
So does that mean if you install just a CAI that for argument sake, adds 11hp as measured on dyno at time of installation, as soon as our 392's "learn their way out," that additional 11hp is gone??

That seems to be the case. 3 times now I have brought a 392 back in and dyno'd it after 100 miles. Same weather conditions, same correction factors, same results. They learn their way out of it. Pull the battery cable, let it sit a half hour, power restored

That seems to be the case. 3 times now I have brought a 392 back in and dyno'd it after 100 miles. Same weather conditions, same correction factors, same results. They learn their way out of it. Pull the battery cable, let it sit a half hour, power restored

Wow! That is bizarre! Cant believe no one revealed this before now. Saves me some $$!

wow, lots of "information" in this thread. I am sorry I have been MIA for a while. I'm am going to put my two cents into the discussion though.....

I have seen 22 horsepower at the tires from a CAI and a ported Tb on a 6.4
Last week we swapped a ported TB on the dyno and back to back pulls it made 8-12 horsepower and torque everywhere and the AFR leaned out.....meaning it was working. That was a 6.1 mind you.

Now the thing none of you want to hear.....

After testing about 15 6.4 cars on the dyno in the last 6 months, you can mod them every which way from Sunday.....they LEARN THEIR WAY OUT OF IT by the time the drive cycle is complete and the trims are mature.

The only way to get a 6.4 car to make power and keep making power is to tune it. Sorry folks.....it is a FACT. Don't believe me, pull your battery ground at the track and let the car sit 30 minutes then make your next pass. There will be a .2 reward for your efffort, if you can drive and hook anyway :)

Thank you for passing this information along, as I expected all along there will be little to no gains without a tune. The proof is in the top times posted by 392s in this forum, the cars running the top times of 12:20s-12:30s (without a converter) have one thing in common they were stock, the modded cars seem to be running slower. I am however interested a bit more in the pulling of the battery ground cable at the strip. I have read information on this forum that pulling the no.2 fuse offers similar results, have you found this to be the case with the 392 as well?

I'm curious to see how the Legmaker Fender Pull Intake performs as it mimics a stock intake setup with just a larger filter and a smoother intake tract.

Brian, do you have any dynos/tests conducted with that intake?


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That seems to be the case. 3 times now I have brought a 392 back in and dyno'd it after 100 miles. Same weather conditions, same correction factors, same results. They learn their way out of it. Pull the battery cable, let it sit a half hour, power restored

This has a lot to do with the PCM recording long term fuel adaptives and the hotter than stock IATs in idle/stop n go driving. Pulling fuse #2 or disconnecting the negative battery cable clears the long term fuel trim which would explain the regain of power after the fact.

Even so, after pulling the negative cable and resetting the PCM, is there a recorded dyno gain over stock? If so, then it might just be a matter of utilizing a fender pull instead of a short ram.

I think this would be even more reason to see how the Legmaker Fender Pull performs especially in the 4800-6400rpm band.




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Pulling fuse #2 or disconnecting the negative battery cable clears the long term fuel trim
is that what pulling fuse #2 ultimately does ??

.......resets long term fuel trims ??

i thought it was more to do with transmission/shifting properties.

if so, why would anyone disconnect the battery in the trunk for 30 minutes as opposed to pulling a fuse under the hood for about 30 seconds ??

explain the connection there ??

is that what pulling fuse #2 ultimately does ??

.......resets long term fuel trims ??

i thought it was more to do with transmission/shifting properties.

if so, why would anyone disconnect the battery in the trunk for 30 minutes as opposed to pulling a fuse under the hood for about 30 seconds ??

explain the connection there ??

I believe pulling "fuse 2" essentially kills power to the computers allowing them to reset back to defaults. Pretty much the same thing as disconnecting the battery cable. Who really knows though? hehe

I think pulling fuse 2 allows the SRT to fall into a dream state allowing it to dream about the race track and when she awakes. She wants it all! Then after a 100 miles she realizes she isn't on the track and just on some'ol street and gets depressed. :(

I believe pulling "fuse 2" essentially kills power to the computers allowing them to reset back to defaults. Pretty much the same thing as disconnecting the battery cable. Who really knows though? hehe
yeah, hopefully someone can chime in.

I think pulling fuse 2 allows the SRT to fall into a dream state allowing it to dream about the race track and when she awakes. She wants it all! Then after a 100 miles she realizes she isn't on the track and just on some'ol street and gets depressed. :(
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I don't mess with the fuses. Pull the battery cable.

We are in the middle of moving shops but ill dig up stuff in a bit to post more info

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wow, lots of "information" in this thread. I am sorry I have been MIA for a while. I'm am going to put my two cents into the discussion though.....

I have seen 22 horsepower at the tires from a CAI and a ported Tb on a 6.4
Last week we swapped a ported TB on the dyno and back to back pulls it made 8-12 horsepower and torque everywhere and the AFR leaned out.....meaning it was working. That was a 6.1 mind you.

Now the thing none of you want to hear.....

After testing about 15 6.4 cars on the dyno in the last 6 months, you can mod them every which way from Sunday.....they LEARN THEIR WAY OUT OF IT by the time the drive cycle is complete and the trims are mature.

The only way to get a 6.4 car to make power and keep making power is to tune it. Sorry folks.....it is a FACT. Don't believe me, pull your battery ground at the track and let the car sit 30 minutes then make your next pass. There will be a .2 reward for your efffort, if you can drive and hook anyway :)

I guess it is a good thing that I have seven (5-2011, 2-2012 all for Challenger R/T's and SRT-8's) un-sold instock prepped ECU's waiting at B&G for customer VIN and tune specs. They can ship to you as early as tomorrow! Email me at at sroos@srtllc.net (sroos@srtllc.net) to get yours on order.

I believe pulling "fuse 2" essentially kills power to the computers allowing them to reset back to defaults. Pretty much the same thing as disconnecting the battery cable. Who really knows though? hehe

I think pulling fuse 2 allows the SRT to fall into a dream state allowing it to dream about the race track and when she awakes. She wants it all! Then after a 100 miles she realizes she isn't on the track and just on some'ol street and gets depressed. :(

That really about sums it up. Fuse #2 is the fuse that controls power to the PCM.

Post #2 of the attached link explains it in better detail.
http://www.lxforums.com/board/f246/fuel-trims-understanding-them-st-lt-218400/

The memory that stores the long term adaptives is similar to a watch memory. So long as it's receiving power, it'll keep the stored values, for example a time set for an alarm. As soon as there is no power, the values will get reset. This is what the fuse 2 or negative battery cable disconnect does to the PCM.

The memory for short term adaptives is similar to computer cache. It is only powered by the battery while the engine is running and resets with every new engine start.

Killing power by either the fuse pull or disconnecting the battery cable will reset the long term adaptives.

This goes back to the granny analogy. Your Challenger is going to mimic your driving style and a majority of Challenger drivers use it on the streets, in stop n go traffic, as opposed to the occasional weekend track race.


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On dyno pulls, one thing I'd like to see is the starting IAT reading rather than the ambient air temperature reading since that is what the PCM is using for its air density calculation.

Perhaps we could hook up a diagnostic reader or if a new Charger can verify the starting IAT with their performance pages prior to the dyno run for each intake setup.

This could help reduce the effects of the PCM pulling timing or at least pulling similar timing for both setups.

For example, let the engine warm up and test the stock setup on the dyno with a starting IAT of 150 deg F in 95 deg F ambient, similar to what we would see in the real world. This could be achieved by letting the car idle and then putting it up on the dyno. Then do the same for the aftermarket intake and record the results. That way, everything else as far as gains would only be an improvement over the worst case scenario.


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That really about sums it up. Fuse #2 is the fuse that controls power to the PCM.

Post #2 of the attached link explains it in better detail.
Fuel Trims and understanding them ST & LT (http://www.lxforums.com/board/f246/fuel-trims-understanding-them-st-lt-218400/)

The memory that stores the long term adaptives is similar to a watch memory. So long as it's receiving power, it'll keep the stored values, for example a time set for an alarm. As soon as there is no power, the values will get reset. This is what the fuse 2 or negative battery cable disconnect does to the PCM.

The memory for short term adaptives is similar to computer cache. It is only powered by the battery while the engine is running and resets with every new engine start.

Killing power by either the fuse pull or disconnecting the battery cable will reset the long term adaptives.

This goes back to the granny analogy. Your Challenger is going to mimic your driving style and a majority of Challenger drivers use it on the streets, in stop n go traffic, as opposed to the occasional weekend track race.


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so there's no real rhyme or reason why you personally pull the fuse and other's pull the battery cable ??

doesn't seem like it....looks like they both do the same thing...

funny thing is, its only part throttle that is effected by the adaptives. Once WoT throttle, the A/F is a set parameter. Now not sure about the TCM side though.

The car is always trying to seek that 14.7 during part throttle. I think the only thing it seems to effect is the TCM and the throttle position sensor.

funny thing is, its only part throttle that is effected by the adaptives. Once WoT throttle, the A/F is a set parameter. Now not sure about the TCM side though.

The car is always trying to seek that 14.7 during part throttle. I think the only thing it seems to effect is the TCM and the throttle position sensor.

Wrong. Dyno a car that's matured then pull the battery cable. Wot afr moves by .5 in most cases. I'm not guessing here. I've seen it car after car. I have almost 40 dyno runs for my car alone

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Wrong. Dyno a car that's matured then pull the battery cable. Wot afr moves by .5 in most cases. I'm not guessing here. I've seen it car after car. I have almost 40 dyno runs for my car alone

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which direction does it move? leaner side?

which direction does it move? leaner side?

Lean

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so there's no real rhyme or reason why you personally pull the fuse and other's pull the battery cable ??

doesn't seem like it....looks like they both do the same thing...

Hehe, except if you pull the negative batt cable, you're also resetting all of your favorite tunes on the radio.


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funny thing is, its only part throttle that is effected by the adaptives. Once WoT throttle, the A/F is a set parameter. Now not sure about the TCM side though.

The car is always trying to seek that 14.7 during part throttle. I think the only thing it seems to effect is the TCM and the throttle position sensor.

Long term fuel trim (+/- 33%) will still affect WOT (open loop).


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Hehe, except if you pull the negative batt cable, you're also resetting all of your favorite tunes on the radio.


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lol - that doesn't effect me too much.

i got one radio station, but i have over 400 songs on the HDD :D

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I have to laugh ever time I see that. I owned one of those, it was a upgrade from a Ti-99 :)

The only way to get a 6.4 car to make power and keep making power is to tune it. Sorry folks.....it is a FACT. Don't believe me, pull your battery ground at the track and let the car sit 30 minutes then make your next pass. There will be a .2 reward for your efffort, if you can drive and hook anyway :)

Brian,
If my 2011 392 has the B&G tune, is it still advantageous to pull the negative battery cable at the track and let it sit for half an hour or does that advice only apply to the factory tune? Thanks, and it's great to see you back and posting.

Hehe, except if you pull the negative batt cable, you're also resetting all of your favorite tunes on the radio.


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Actually, it doesn't. Mine was pulled for approx 3 hrs....radio stations were retained.

The only way to get a 6.4 car to make power and keep making power is to tune it. Sorry folks.....it is a FACT. Don't believe me, pull your battery ground at the track and let the car sit 30 minutes then make your next pass. There will be a .2 reward for your efffort, if you can drive and hook anyway :)[/QUOTE]

Does this do the same thing as pulling the #2 fuse?

The only way to get a 6.4 car to make power and keep making power is to tune it. Sorry folks.....it is a FACT. Don't believe me, pull your battery ground at the track and let the car sit 30 minutes then make your next pass. There will be a .2 reward for your efffort, if you can drive and hook anyway :)

Does this do the same thing as pulling the #2 fuse?[/QUOTE]

No, the tune takes away torque management. Fuse #2 just resets the PCM and long term fuel adaptives.


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If you want a real gain get a tuned ECU. 3-5 tenths drop in ET and a fun factor that is unmatched by anything in its price range!


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So what happens when I take my car in for service, can the dealer detect the tune and flash over it thus wasting my $$$ or do I retain my stock ECU and swap it in when I need to go in for service?

I live in Canada so no moss magnuson act to protect me.

So what happens when I take my car in for service, can the dealer detect the tune and flash over it thus wasting my $$$ or do I retain my stock ECU and swap it in when I need to go in for service?

I live in Canada so no moss magnuson act to protect me.

The dealer will definitely detect a tune and would flash it back. However if you can get your ECU tune file saved you can change it back to stock before taking it in, then flashing it again to the performance tune.

Now if you went in for a oil change or warranty work not related to the engine I'm sure you can tell them to leave it alone but they might notate a tune on your service records or something.

The dealer will definitely detect a tune and would flash it back. However if you can get your ECU tune file saved you can change it back to stock before taking it in, then flashing it again to the performance tune.

And hence why Dodge locked the PCM for warranty claims in the first place.


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So what happens when I take my car in for service, can the dealer detect the tune and flash over it thus wasting my $$$ or do I retain my stock ECU and swap it in when I need to go in for service?

I live in Canada so no moss magnuson act to protect me.
it's a doubel edged sword.

(1) you can either leave the tuned ECU in and they find out about it - they will flash your car back to stock settings and immediately crush your warranty

(2) you can swap the stock ECU back in, but now the miles on your car and the miles on your ECU will be COMPLETELY different - they will immediatley crush your warranty

pick your poison - rayzazoo has a good point above ^^^^^^^^

The dealer will definitely detect a tune and would flash it back. However if you can get your ECU tune file saved you can change it back to stock before taking it in, then flashing it again to the performance tune.

Now if you went in for a oil change or warranty work not related to the engine I'm sure you can tell them to leave it alone but they might notate a tune on your service records or something.

If we are talking about the 2011 and up cars how would we re-flash an untunable ECU? Seems to swap back and forth would be the best option.

Not to derail this thread, and hopefully get it back on track but my plans are not to tune and do a few subtle bolt-ons. I might even go all Mopar just to ensure no issues if any warranty work would need to happen.

I'd like to think most CIAs, including the Mopar brand are pretty equivalent?

So here's a little more on the stock 392 setup.

It turns out there is a plastic heat barrier below the triangular hole that separates the driver side fender compartment from the main engine bay (something that wasn't on 2010 and previous models). There is also a plastic barrier that extends the metal fender with the hole to the back of the head light ballast. Essentially, everything below the lower triangular hole is sealed off from the engine bay.

Add this with the sealed stock airbox and well, I just can't see much improvement over the stock box. Perhaps a larger filter that sits in the fender but other than that...

Anyhow, more to come with temp testing once my wireless OBDII reader gets in.

The picture below shows the plastic barrier. To orient yourself, the bottom of the picture is the brake duct. Looking toward the right is the plastic barrier that separates the engine bay from the fender well.

If anything, I could see an air hole to the outside (or a brake duct removal) happening to allow more air in but the stock setup is really hitting the ball out of the park right now.




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