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Took my newly B&G tuned 392 to the track

19K views 83 replies 36 participants last post by  KJ392 
#1 · (Edited)
I installed my B&G tuned ECU in my Challenger this week. I reported my first impressions in another thread. I was real happy with the new feel of the car, but lets face it, butt dyno's lead to putting ones foot in ones mouth and the track was where I needed to go. Last year I made several runs at Empire Dragway. A member asked in my "first impressions thread what my best run was and although I didn't keep last years slips (due to major disappointment) I remembered rounding up it was 13.3@110. Today I was able to locate an email I had sent to a friend that night and it was specifically 13.297@109.39 with my seasons best 60' time of 2.165. MY freind (Heminator) also races there and he can vouch for how my car ran as he was running generally the same with his IE. To be fair, the tune is not the only new goody going to the track this year. I also added a Hopnot kit and replaced my K&N filtered stock airbox with a Airaid CAI. But, Heminator did the same and our cars have the exact same mods. He was at Empire a week ago and the Hopnot kit and CAI gave him a small improvement, he ran a 13.21 best. DA at the track was +2560 when I arrived and went down to +2230 by the time I left. My first pass resulted in me missing 3rd gear (I recovered quickly) and the end result was a 13.38@108. My second pass I tried coming out at 3600 RPM and flooring it which gave me a large amount of wheel spin (but no hop) resulted in a 13.008@111.53 with a 2.187 60ft. time. See attached slip, car #41. Third pass I decided to try the launch technique that I used last year on my best run. Do a burnout to clean the tread and leave the line at 2200 RPM, let the car bog and go. This yielded a 12.820@109.66 with a 1.961 60ft time. I knew then I was on to something as far as launch technique. On my final run, I brought the launch rpm up to 2300 RPM and this resulted in the nights best 12.753@109.89 with a 60ft time of 1.932. See attached time slip. After that, my friend with a Boss 302 traded cars with me for a couple runs and it was time to go home. There are some who might suggest that the improvement in the 60ft time was from the Hopnot kit but I would refute that. The technique that gave me my best 60ft was the bog and go technique which also gave me my best 60ft last year with no wheel hop. I only had severe wheel hop coming out hard. To be fair to hopnot, it is a great product and I can now do great burnouts with little or no hop. With drag radials, which would allow a hard launch, the hopnot would really shine. However the difference is that with the stock tune the motor bogs and before it takes off there is a noticeable lag. With the B&G tune with the TQ management removed, it bogs, but the car instantly squats and goes far quicker than with the stock tune. After that I also noticed that the bit of lag after shifts before the motor is back on full boil is gone. Empire is a sticky track and I have never barked the tires shifting into third gear on that track with a stock tune. Tonight, except for the missed shift run it barked the tires in third every time. I am going to up the launch speed up to 2400 rpm next time, because I think there is more to be had here. A couple other disadvantages is the bad air customary for that track and the fact that I am 6'4" 292lbs in a car that already too heavy. In conclusion, RB felt that 1/4 mile runs should easily improve 4 tenths with the tune. I think he hit the nail right on the head. Needless to say, I am very pleased with the results I got. Sorry for the crappy iPhone pics.
 

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#3 ·
13.297@109.39 with my seasons best 60' time of 2.165.


also added a Hopnot kit and replaced my K&N filtered stock airbox with a Airaid CAI.

resulted in a 13.008@111.53 with a 2.187 60ft. time.

yielded a 12.820@109.66 with a 1.961 60ft time.

nights best 12.753@109.89 with a 60ft time of 1.932.
.
The 13.297 @ 109 and 13.008 @ 111 give a better representation of what the tune/CAI did due to the 60fts being the same. Roughly .29 hundredths decrease. Still a few variables as we don't know if the DAs were the same between the stock run vs the CAI/tune run. The rest is hard to determine that the tune made the difference in the 60ft because the launch techniques kept changing.

Great runs!





Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app
 
#5 ·
The 13.297 @ 109 and 13.008 @ 111 give a better representation of what the tune/CAI did due to the 60fts being the same.
Not really because here is the key difference - VH was spinning like crazy on that 13.00 @ 111.53 pass with the 2.19 60' time. Last season his best 60' time of 2.165 was with almost zero wheelspin.

His best 60' times with the tune were obtained with no wheelspin and launching at 2300 RPM. Comparing his best untuned and tuned short times with no wheelspin, the tune is worth 2 tenths to 60'. And DA/temps were virtually the same - about 2200'.

And it feels that way too - it pulls much harder out of the hole. There is no throttle / TM lag so noticeable with the stock tune. It just squats down and pulls much harder off idle.

I'll hit the track soon too. My PB with all mods in place (CAI, cat-back, hop not, 180F stat) is 13.21 @ 108.57 with a 2.14 60' time. And VH and I have the same exact mods. I'm predicting 12.8x @ 110.x. Conservatively this tune is worth 4 tenths and 2 MPH.
 
#4 ·
This tune is the real deal.

I can indeed vouch for Vichammer's times. Both of us consistently have run 13.2-13.3 @ 108-109 at this track. His PB is 13.29.

And a few weeks ago I ran a 13.21 @ 108.57 with a hop not kit, CAI, cat-back, and 180F stat. That is my PB and I weigh about 210.

Last night in crappy air he ripped a 12.82 and backed it up with a 12.75 - on street tires launching with basically no wheelspin. That is a HUGE gain from a tune.

This tune is deceptive because it's so smooth - after driving mine I called Vichammer and left a PM and predicted he was going to run 13 flat - I figured 3 tenths improvement per my butt dyno. He picked up a solid 5 tenths! Wow......

This gain is a combination of throttle calibration, TM eliminination, and power gains. As RB has consistently said, the best dyno is the strip. I understand the need to obsess over dyno runs - if you want that, Jeff will repost his 447/452 with 12.1 AFR. With a dyno rental pull costing $125-$150 around here, I'm taking a pass and hitting the strip for $13 Test/Tune instead. The time slips prove it -this tune delivers the goods big time. B&G really nailed it.
 
#13 ·
2670 miles on the odometer as of today.
 
#8 · (Edited)
12.7 is impressive for a 6m. It sounds to me like some is your improved technique (on my stock 392 6m I've done 13.01 and Crankcase did 12.9 with DRs in similar air -I feel like one more run would have had me in 12.99 territory), but clearly the tune is making a difference as that is a quality time for a 6m. Nicely done.

DRs and CAI with Hop Not and BG ECM are on my list...
 
#9 ·
IMHO... I think learning the best launching technique gives the most effective results. The more bolt ons/power u add the process starts over. DRs help vastly! You get waaaay better traction which = consistent 60'.

Sent from my PG86100 using AutoGuide.Com Free App
 
#10 ·
Oh... Another thing heat kills power! Want to see a huge diff for free... Let ur engine COOL! Like ice it down... Let it sit till 120-130 Jus my .02.

Sent from my PG86100 using AutoGuide.Com Free App
 
#12 · (Edited)
Yes the improved 60' time is a huge part of it, BUT last year, I had 26 passes at Empire Dragway (1/4 mile track 60 miles away) and over 30 passes at Dunn Tire Raceway Park (1/8 mile track 5 miles away), so I assure you the low RPM bog launch and go method that yielded my best times both last year and this year were done the same. The difference again is that now the car instantly stands up and goes vs. the delay that existed with the stock tune. I did not get some epiphany between last year and this year that taught me a new way to launch, nor have I taken any driving lessons.

I'm sure some of the credit can go to the other new mod I installed since last year, the Airaid CAI which I know you are a huge fan of based on your posts in other threads I've read, but last year, I would have absolutely killed for a 12.XX time slip, especially after seeing all these A5 392 owners getting into the low 12's. No matter how I tried, I never came close. I am not a believer in butt-dyno's even though the first ride I took in my car after the PCM swap showed me instantly that the removal or TQ management changed the whole feel in a positive way, I still feel the only true validation is Track or Dyno.....period. There are other members and former members on this forum who know what I ran last year and what I ran last night because these individuals were at the track and witnessed it. Had I gone to the track once or twice last year and got in a half dozen runs, then your argument would make sense. But in reality, last year I tried every single combination of traction control settings and high and low RPM launches possible.

I have no personal interest whatsoever in pushing the B&G tune, except to share my personal experiences with the members of this community. Remember, I posted a couple days ago my first impressions, and promised I would go to the track and report my results and I would have done so whether they were good or bad. I spent almost 1400.00 for a cat back system that sounds awesome but did almost nothing for me at the track, so I'm happy about a mod that cost hundreds, not thousands that actually made a difference for me. The day I pulled out of the dealership with my brand new 392 Challenger back on 4/16/11, I had no doubt in my mind I was driving a 12 second car. I of course came to find out I was wrong then, but now I am driving a 12 second car.

Again, I stand by RB's estimate of up to 4/10's in the 1/4 only because I've lived it. Maybe the rest was because of the Airaid, who knows? Bottom line is with the exception of a very expensive PCM swap, we 2011 and 2012 owners whether they have a 5.7 or a 392 have no other options as far as a tune. Sure, I like everyone would love a hand held unit and a custom tune, but right now I am grateful for the canned tune available to us.
 
#16 ·
I want to get this mod so bad because it seems to be the only alternative to gain a little horsepower out of our cars and I really don't like being completely stock but I need to find away to do this and get another ecu for warranty purposes.


Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app
Talk to Red Barron. You will get a spare ECU with the tune installed. It takes 5 minutes to swap back to the stock ECU for dealer warranty work.
 
#15 ·
Vichammer is 100% correct.

We have the same car and the same mod list. We have both tried every conceivable combination of RPM, clutch, and ESP in order to optimize the launch on these cars. On street tires, at this track, with the same DA, both of us consistently are putting down 13.2-13.3 passes with our best launches.

Vichammer's good friend Russ, a Boss 302 owner who is a resident hot shoe and has logged a lot of track and strip time, ran VH's 392 a few times. He weighs 160 pounds and his best was a 13.19.

Vichammer's best: 13.29
Heminator's best: 13.21
Russ' best in VH's car: 13.19 (with a 1.9x 60' time)

Trust me - a 12.7-12.8 pass from our cars, at this track, in this DA, on street tires - was a complete pipe dream before the B&G tune. The B&G tune is absolutely good for 4 tenths and 2-3 MPH on the 392 M6. Simply put, it pulls harder from off-idle to redline and it doesn't lay down between shifts.

Here is an interesting point of reference. There was an untuned 392 M6 at the track the same night. This car was shod with huge 315 rag radials. He put down a 12.8 @ 107 pass -proving the launch value of drag radials. Vichammer put down a 12.75 @ 110 pass - on street tires. Look at the difference in trap speed - that says it all. Once the cars were hooked and rolling, Vichammer was running down the untuned 392 in a big way.
 
#19 ·
Will the odometer be mismatched when you swap the original/stock ECU back in (for warranty work like you said)?? If not, what would prevent me from buying this to then lie when selling my car saying it only has the original 3000 miles on it since I was using the second ECU the whole time I had the car??
 
#20 ·
ECU mileage has no impact on the odometer. It takes an act of congress to change the odometer mileage. Thanx RB

Will the odometer be mismatched when you swap the original/stock ECU back in (for warranty work like you said)?? If not, what would prevent me from buying this to then lie when selling my car saying it only has the original 3000 miles on it since I was using the second ECU the whole time I had the car??
 
#25 ·
Dont get how Everyones Times are so High?

I just breezed through all these posts and I cant figure out why everyones times are so high? I believe stock, the car should do around 12.7.
I have only been to the track 2 times my entire life and my best time on my STOCK as you can get Challenger 392 was 12.593. I think my first run ever was in the 13's and this is my first muscle car.
If anyone is in the 13's in this car I would either take it back, check your trunk for lead bricks or give it to someone who "hate to say it, can Drag it better."
I read some of you guys did 30 or more passes. I just cant believe it. I would love to see how this tune works on my car.
The things I have to know is: Are you guys using Stick or auto? Is your car empty of all garbage HP consumers? If you guys have stick would maybe explain that maybe some of you cant throw the lightning like you think. Are you calculating just the right amount of gas for your runs or at least 1/8th tank?

Anyway, not trying to make enemies and as soon as you tell someone they cant drive they puff up. Not my intention just trying to figure out if this tune is a waste of money or not because your times should be lower guys.

So, dont yell at me, lets just figure it out???
 
#26 ·
I just breezed through all these posts and I cant figure out why everyones times are so high? I believe stock, the car should do around 12.7.
I have only been to the track 2 times my entire life and my best time on my STOCK as you can get Challenger 392 was 12.593. I think my first run ever was in the 13's and this is my first muscle car.
If anyone is in the 13's in this car I would either take it back, check your trunk for lead bricks or give it to someone who "hate to say it, can Drag it better."
I read some of you guys did 30 or more passes. I just cant believe it. I would love to see how this tune works on my car.
The things I have to know is: Are you guys using Stick or auto? Is your car empty of all garbage HP consumers? If you guys have stick would maybe explain that maybe some of you cant throw the lightning like you think. Are you calculating just the right amount of gas for your runs or at least 1/8th tank?

Anyway, not trying to make enemies and as soon as you tell someone they cant drive they puff up. Not my intention just trying to figure out if this tune is a waste of money or not because your times should be lower guys.

So, dont yell at me, lets just figure it out???
you ave a timeslip of your 12.5 ??

your first 13 second run was probably due to a bad DA.

your 12.5 was probably a much improved DA.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Vichammer is dead on. An M6 392 Challenger which consistently runs in the high 12's bone stock is a factory freak or DA was negative. This is a low 13 second car all day on stock F1s. It's not nearly as quick as the A5 at the strip. The A5 picks up 2 tenths on the hole shot and a tenth every time the M6 is shifted. There's your consistent 0.5 sec delta between these two cars. And the M6 traps 2-3 MPH lower too.

High 11's is possible in a tuned A5 with DRs and a converter. That's a pipe dream with an M6. Best time I've seen for a tuned M6 with DRs (and all the other standard bolt-ons) was around 12.4. A tuned M6 with bolt-ons and 275/40 street tires is a 12.8 car in normal DA - maybe 12.6x in really good DA. A similarly equipped A5 in the same air will be knocking on 12.1x.
 
#29 ·
All SRT's have a factory breakin period of 3750 and then 7500 miles, whether it is a 6.1 or (392) 6.4 Hemi. It is normal to run low 13s until the breakin period is complete. My friend's 2011 6speed SRT didn't break into the 12s until after this breakin period on the STOCK "Factory" ECU was complete. So, I'm not that impressed with what the BG Tune allows.
What the BG Tune "only" does is bypass the factory breakin periods forcing the car to run fast before the recommended breakin period by the factory.

A well broken in 6.1 or 6.4 Hemi will post ETs into the 12s under the right conditions, and definitely on Drag Radials.
 
#31 ·
All SRT's have a factory breakin period of 3750 and then 7500 miles, whether it is a 6.1 or (392) 6.4 Hemi. It is normal to run low 13s until the breakin period is complete. My friend's 2011 6speed SRT didn't break into the 12s until after this breakin period on the STOCK "Factory" ECU was complete. So, I'm not that impressed with what the BG Tune allows.
What the BG Tune "only" does is bypass the factory breakin periods forcing the car to run fast before the recommended breakin period by the factory.

A well broken in 6.1 or 6.4 Hemi will post ETs into the 12s under the right conditions, and definitely on Drag Radials.
The B&G tune ticks all the same boxes as any normal/good tune:

  • air/fuel/spark tables optimized for higher octane and more power
  • throttle response improved
  • torque management reduced/eliminated (depends on tranny)
  • fan settings optimized for 180F stat
  • slight increase in rev limiter setting
In hot air with poor DA, it doesn't make much more power than stock (nor will any other safe tune because the AIT sensor will pull timing). In cooler air with better DA, it makes a nice power gain over stock and is good on average for 3 tenths and 2 MPH.

Yes, DRs will put a stock M6 into the 12s. There was one at the track the same night as Vichammer and he was running 12.7x @ 108.x on 305/20/20 DRs. Vichammer was running 12.7x @ 110.x on 275/40 street tires with a considerably worse 60' time. Put those same DRs on Vichammer's tuned car and it would run 12.4x @ 112.x under the same conditions/DA.
 
#33 · (Edited)
The 6 speeds also cross the traps in 4th, so that's one more shift they have to make versus the autos which finish the 1/4 mile in thrid.

LOL at Kakdiesel1, I didn't realize a member of the NHRA hall of fame graced us with his presence here on the forums, but thanks for letting us know how awesome you are...rolls eyes... Oh you can run really good times with an automatic, must be hard to hit the go pedal like you do.

Drag racing like anything takes practice, you have been doing it a while obviously, the people you rip on are probably learning the sport and their cars.
 
#35 ·
I'll agree with that Jersey and Pa's Density Altitude is anywhere for -1500 to +1500. +/- some. Where do you guys live Aspen? I'm not trying to fight with anyone. Just saying this car should run 12's all day every day wo a tune.
And EricG? If your not going to read all the posts don't embarrass yourself. I said I only drag raced twice my whole life. Maybe 6 total runs and my best was 12.593. If you want your car to go faster i would be happy to drive it for you?
 
#36 ·
Look man, I am not the person who ever flames a thread, but I gotta point a few things out. You are a new forum member who is puffing his chest out with your 12 second time slips and criticizing others who are running 13's. So far, you have not specified whether you have a A5 or a M6 but again, my firm belief is that you have an automatic. In that case, you are not an exceptional driver, but you are in fact just another face in the crowd as countless 392 Challengers with automatics run 12's all the time. We have a member who ran 12.25, another 12.28 and even another 12.33 with bone stock 392 Challengers.

Heck, there is even a forum member with a Charger Superbee (100 lbs. heavier) who ran 12.13. So again, your times are quite ordinary. Your times do not automatically make you a extraordinary talented driver, as so many other forum members have done what you have and better. The crapola you are whining about the slow time slips of 392 Challengers are the 6-speed versions. Yeah, everyone who reads these forums before they post all know of the struggle to get a 12 second time slip on a M6 392 Challenger.

I for one have a M6 392, and as an experienced drag racer for over 25 years, my best run in +2000DA was 13.19. A friend who is a professional drag racer was able to get it down to 13.09 in my car. For me, it took a tune, better tires and a Hopnot kit to get it down to 12.75. The same night I accomplished that, there was a guy with a almost brand new Challenger 392 A5 running 12.58. It is what is is, the automatic cars run far quicker at the track then the manuals. Again, you are new here but you need to learn the difference as it is huge. Your times are nothing but average, PERIOD! Go back and start reading the other posts in this forum and learn things like the effects of DA and M6 vs A5 and then maybe your posts will be taken more seriously, and your criticism of others mainly the M6 owners stuck in the 13's will be something you will know you were way off base about.
 
#38 ·
Hell in good air I ran 12:46 bone stock leaving all my nannies on, not a whole lot of skill other than holding rpms at 1000 and smashing the gas pedal on green then steering the car down the track.
 
#39 ·
Haha



You motor heads all the same. I thought this post was about a tuned car getting 13's and should be getting lower. I never puffed my chest out And as a matter of fact called you guys out and knew some one would think I'm bragging. Sure as heck your puffing your chest bragging how long you have raced.
The fact is you all have a car right out a dealership with little bolt on trinkets here and there. I have no experience as I stated and I only drag raced 2 times. Instead of PMSing teach the new guy. I can bring some cranberry juice next post? It seems your manual is slower.,why you bought a slower car to drag race I have no idea? Did someone tell you driving stick is more manly? I did get that a lot at the track. Funny how they were behind me too. Just watched Pinks and a guy just lost $10,000 because he missed 3rd. A5, A6 who even cares what that means as long as you know how to use it. Did Cole Trickle know anything about cars?
 
#44 ·
back on topic, last weekend a friend had his yellow jacket at the strip and best he could get was a 13.0 something. The 6spds are difficult to get down the track.

Getting into the 12.7-8 range is doing pretty good from what we have seen. Add drag radials, etc. it will get better, but stock is tough.
 
#46 ·
I have a lot of respect for the 6-speed drivers. I've driven automatics and sticks at the track on radials. With the auto, there was about 2 seconds of medium concentration to get it off the line, then it was foot down, keep it straight for the rest of the run. With the stick, I'd call it downright stressful. One false move off the line and it's a blown run. I couldn't relax until after I hit 3rd.

Maybe with sticky tires, a 4500 rpm launch, and full on speed shifts could close the gap. But breaking stuff gets mighty expensive...
 
#47 ·
Maybe with sticky tires, a 4500 rpm launch, and full on speed shifts could close the gap. But breaking stuff gets mighty expensive...
I just think that it's the more intrusive application of torque management that keeps the 6spds from being great drag strip performers.

With the automatic, most of the variables that happen during the shift are managed by the PCM/ECU -- meaning computer, not driver. As such, Chrysler engineers are able to use these stable and repeatable variables when programming the automatic's tune. Torque Management (TM) application can be as aggressive as programming will allow.

However, with the "TRUELY" manual shifter, all shifting variables derive from "human" factors that no "cheap" computer can predict. (Evidence? Autos receive cylinder deactivation, 6spd cannot due to unstable shifting variables.) With the 6spds, Chrysler dialed in alot of TM to manage and mitigate most of these "human" factors in its quest, amongst other things, to preserve the reliabilty of their product. On the bright side, this reduces or prevents unnecessary drivetrain breakage and failures; however (on the not-so-bright side) this prevents maximum performance.

Though I don't know what the TM thresholds between the auto and 6spds are, I bet it's safe to say that the auto is capable of receiving the least amount. And it is probably also safe to say that anytime an engine isn't capable of applying its full power (or force --- torque) over another, that it won't be able to perform as well --> Which results in slower acceleration results.

Bottom line, give the 6spds their full power potential then let's see what happens.
 
#48 ·
On the toque management issue I believe that is why we can turn it off. There is no doubt 6speeds have a harder time getting the car down the track but it is mostly a driver issue at launch (I know it is for me) and then the actual time it takes to physically shift the gears unless you can do it w/o the clutch (I will not risk the learning curve).
 
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