Tuner and bolt ons, what gains? - Dodge Challenger Forum: Challenger & SRT8 Forums
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#1 (permalink) Old 10-06-2012, 11:46 AM
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Tuner and bolt ons, what gains?

Lots of you 392 owners have done bolt on mods. How much more HP gains would you achieve if you could tune? I read a few times on here, that our cars are actually detuned from factory... I've read that just by tuning alone we could wake up another 30+HP. Is that true? If so, why would people be wanting a supercharger when it only gains them another 50HP? I could see it if we had the internals that could hold up to 600+ HP.. then we could boost a lot more than the current levels, and the natural option would be SCing.

What are say, 3 bolt ons to achieve maximum HP, other than a supercharger, and what would the average HP gaines be on the 392? Sounds like a tuner is going to be available soon... so would like to know my options. I may trade in for the SCed version.. or keep depends on what the #s are, and if the internals are forged on the factory superchared 6.2

Thanks for the info

Jimmy
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#2 (permalink) Old 10-07-2012, 09:27 AM
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A CAI, ported TB, cat-back exhaust, and a B&G tune will net you on average 3-4 tenths in the 1/4-mile in decent air. Without the tune to permanently alter the air/fuel/spark tables, bolt-ons are worthless on a 392, as the PCM will quickly 'unlearn' them. Gains on the dyno are temperature dependent - the hotter the weather, the smaller the gains over stock.

A properly set-up supercharger will generally add more than 50 HP, but the real story behind forced induction is the TQ curve. The average torque gains are very large and over the entire RPM band - and that's what accelerates the car, as opposed to just looking at peak HP gains. Traction issues notwithstanding, I would never expect bolt-ons/tune to keep up with a supercharged 392.

2011 SRT8 392 IE #88 DWB: M6, 430N, Group II, Mopar Appearance Package
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#3 (permalink) Old 10-07-2012, 06:59 PM
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Thanks for the reply.
What kind of torque gains would be realized from a tune and bolt ons VS a tune and supercharged? I know your gonna get a lot more from supercharger, but if your limited to how much you can boost, is it really worth it? I know your gonna get a lot more than 50 HP from a SC, but just like Arrington is doing, not boosting past 550 HP. They know the internals/tranny can't handle it... This is where I come to the thought that, even at 525 HP from tune and bolt ons VS a tune and supercharger 550 HP. Is it worth it? What would the gains be in tenths in the quarter from people that have a super charged 550 HP? Is there a big difference? Not meaning to be a pain in the butt, just want to find out the direction I'll be heading. From what you stated above, we can be under 12 seconds with a tune and the bolt ons. We talking 11.9X ? What for the supercharged in a safe HP range to 555 or whatever people are getting? Maybe 11.6?

Last edited by conceptmachine; 10-07-2012 at 07:03 PM.
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#4 (permalink) Old 10-07-2012, 08:19 PM
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I think your a bit confused..the 550hp you keep bring up is at the wheels (600+ crank hp), but the 525hp you mention is something you won't see at the wheels with out going further than bolt ons. With a tune, exhaust, cai, headers, etc..you MAY see 450rwhp..that's still a big gap. The supercharged 392s should be able to hit low 11s..there are just not enough supercharged 392s out there to fall into the hands of a driver that can hit a low 11

2009 Dodge Challenger R/T A5

SRT8 Brembos, JBA shorties, JBA catless mids, 3" MBRP catback, k&n drop-in filter (with the stock box), 3200 FTI TC, MTCM, canned DS 91oct tune, and 275/40/17 MT ET's

1/4 mile PB 12.390@108.78
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#5 (permalink) Old 10-07-2012, 08:27 PM
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What you need to ask yourself is what are you doing this for? Do you want to be faster in the quarter mile? Then go for a super charger. You can tune all you want, and add all the mods you want to increase the amount of air in the motor, but you'll never increase how much suction the motor is doing naturally. Doesn't matter how much tuning you do. That's why forced induction is so amazing, it's not just giving more air, it's forcing more air into the motor. At 14.7 pounds of boost from a super charger you've doubled atmospheric pressure in the motor so thats 470 hp x 2. The only reason we typically build up the internals of a motor is to keep the motor from falling apart when the parts designed for 470 hp meet that 940 hp, there's only so far the manufacturers designed this motor stock to go in the aspect of power generation. One reason tuning is so important is to bypass the fact that you'd have to design your power increase in so many different aspects so as not to have the computer counter your power adder just to save the motor. It's like keeping the computer on the same page as the parts that make up the motor. With more air from a supercharger or turbo comes more heat in the cylinders which leads to detonation, you can either raise the octane to avoid detonation or wait for the knock censors to say back down timing(good bye to your power) to save the motor. Anyways back to the quarter mile deal, if you want to be faster you need faster power, a supercharger is big on the power because it's almost instant power because it's forcing more air in, without it, your induction is regular and you're only increasing the air volume in the motor by maybe 10% or 20% your best bet on gains is about 100 hp. That's assuming you buy mods that were designed to work with one another. Lots of people follow a popular misconception that adding mods and calculating the increased horsepower is just a matter of adding the gains of each mod together for example intake(8hp) and exhaust(20hp) oh I must have 28 horsepower in gains! EGGHHHH wrong. That's assuming each mod was designed to work with the other, which is more than likely not the case half the time. Sometimes though it's not just about over all gains, more often than not it's about that power curve. Some modding will increase the point at which the power curve begins. Tune and bolt ons you could be under the 12 mark for sure, but with tuning, mods, and a supercharger you could be in the 10's lol. Hell for quarter mile you're better off just doing a wet shot of nitrous on a separate fuel system.

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#6 (permalink) Old 10-07-2012, 10:18 PM
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Nicely wrote up fellas. Thank you....
Since I am not going to be a tracky, I wanted to get the 0-60 time under 4. seconds . Traction is going to be the main issue... tires and traction control are key here. Looking forward to seeing the numbers from the new 6.2! I hope they forge the internals!
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#7 (permalink) Old 10-08-2012, 11:05 AM
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I hope there will be a 6.2 lol. 6.2 sounds like a bored out 6.1
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#8 (permalink) Old 10-08-2012, 05:01 PM
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Thats exactly what it will be a bored out 6.1
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#9 (permalink) Old 10-08-2012, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris1992 View Post
I think your a bit confused..the 550hp you keep bring up is at the wheels (600+ crank hp), but the 525hp you mention is something you won't see at the wheels with out going further than bolt ons. With a tune, exhaust, cai, headers, etc..you MAY see 450rwhp..that's still a big gap. The supercharged 392s should be able to hit low 11s..there are just not enough supercharged 392s out there to fall into the hands of a driver that can hit a low 11
So what are SCed 392s running for 1/4 times, anyone know?
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#10 (permalink) Old 10-08-2012, 10:24 PM
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Check out the 392 timeslip thread, but I believe the fastest was 11.63 or so.
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