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180 ° t-stat

10K views 63 replies 20 participants last post by  mikeychallenger 
#1 ·
Curious. If you put a 180° t-stat in challenger and do not have a programmer what can happen? Any benefits or loses?
 
#2 ·
It definately won't hurt it and I think it'll still keep temps between 183-190 while on the highway but once you sit in traffic for a while and it starts heatsoaking you won't have your custom fan settings to cool it back down real quick. Not sure when the low and high fans kick on from the factory. Someone correct me if I am wrong but pretty sure that's how it'll work.
 
#3 ·
Indeed you will run cooler, but the temp can and will still spike when you are stopped in traffic and especially if you have the A/C on. There really is no downside to running it, it's just better(cooler at all times) with a tuner and lowered fan settings.
 
#8 · (Edited)
So a $35 dollar mod that keeps the engine typically 15 degrees or more cooler and to help prevent heatsoak during cruising and also helps keep peak HP up by not robbing any when heatsoak happens. Prolongs engine life and is the number 1 mod for drag racers. Sure, it's a waste of money... :notallthere:
 
#9 ·
I've seen where some say it throws a CEL, while others don't when installed without a tuner....
 
#10 ·
While some people do get codes, I think that's because they do not use the Jet 180. I've never heard of someone throwing a code with the JET, it initially spikes close to 190 degrees before it settles back down into the 185 range.

As far as less heat, I haven't experienced that. Keep in mind, the engine warms up to almost 190 at exactly the same rate as the stock t-stat which is plenty warm enough for the car's climate control system to make heat.
 
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#14 ·
well that's a lot of passionate comments on a $35 add on

i have mine that i put on for the summer and for thus the track days i spend driving my beast up to 140 mph from 4500 to 6500rpm, oil blasting at 270 deg and water temp thus tapping into the 215/225 deg constantly with the 180 deg tstat

in this above config the engine keeps within the 215/220 deg operating range and you have no risk of overheating, the manifold is nice and warm not hot, you pick more HP on the track and when u do civil driving u have an engine running oil temp at 190/200 deg and it is fine

then winter comes and the 180 deg stat in New York City for me is a big no no
way too cold and not needed so revert to stock

180 t-stat is for tuned car; i have three tunes to choose from depending on what i do with the car and what racing gas i use

if u have no tune, by all means the t-stat is a waste of money and time; the stock does very well but if you live in hot Texas, Arizona, Florida and the south in general, the T stat won't kill ur engine and if u drive the car hard it will be needed but yet again u need to adjust the fan kick off temps; north of Atlanta i don't see the need

i ran my T stat 180 w/o tunes; it was ok but i was running the engine too cool and was enriching the mix by tricking the PCM in making it believe the engine was in warm up mode; not something i wanted to continue to do

so here it is

my experience and conclusions on the matter

keep cool; the winter is coming around

XOXO

lol

ODP
 
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#16 ·
well that's a lot of passionate comments on a $35 add on

i have mine that i put on for the summer and for thus the track days i spend driving my beast up to 140 mph from 4500 to 6500rpm, oil blasting at 270 deg and water temp thus tapping into the 215/225 deg constantly with the 180 deg tstat

in this above config the engine keeps within the 215/220 deg operating range and you have no risk of overheating, the manifold is nice and warm not hot, you pick more HP on the track and when u do civil driving u have an engine running oil temp at 190/200 deg and it is fine

then winter comes and the 180 deg stat in New York City for me is a big no no
way too cold and not needed so revert to stock

180 t-stat is for tuned car; i have three tunes to choose from depending on what i do with the car and what racing gas i use

if u have no tune, by all means the t-stat is a waste of money and time; the stock does very well but if you live in hot Texas, Arizona, Florida and the south in general, the T stat won't kill ur engine and if u drive the car hard it will be needed but yet again u need to adjust the fan kick off temps; north of Atlanta i don't see the need

i ran my T stat 180 w/o tunes; it was ok but i was running the engine too cool and was enriching the mix by tricking the PCM in making it believe the engine was in warm up mode; not something i wanted to continue to do

so here it is

my experience and conclusions on the matter

keep cool; the winter is coming around

XOXO

lol

ODP
Actually I'm pretty sure our cars jump over to the hotter coolant open-loop fuel tables even with the Jet 180, this came up over on the LX forums back in the day and I remember reading it. I would be interested in learning a little more about this though.

It should also be noted that people have been running cooler tstats in these modern Hemis for about 10 years now, and I don't think I've ever read about someone saying their cooler tstat caused them a problem.

Agree with O-Racing... In Texas, I run the 180 stat year round. I have 180 stats in all three of my hemis but only lower the fans in the SRT for racing. The two jeeps benefit as long as you're rolling which is 90% of the toime.
Cooler head temps = less detonation. Biggest problem with the 93 octane tunes is finding good enough gas that won't cause KNKs. Thousands of tunned challengers trying to combat a few ST KNKs. Cooler temps is one of the best ways to do it so you don't have to run as much octane booster, meth or pull timing. Cooler engine = cooler intake charge. Cooler air = more power. Physics 101. Drag racers run fans to cool them down between runs for a reason...
Engine at 220 degrees heat soaks the under hood components much more than one running 190 or 195 thus heating up your AIT and intake manifold. ECU won't advance as much timing if your IAT and intake temps are high. Hemis hate heat and really lay over when hot. That is why everyone does as much as possible to help them run cooler.
Factory has higher stats for emission BS. Hotter gasses burn more and leave less of a carbon footprint. If concerned about your carbon footprint, should of bought a Prius.
In this case I would be more inclined to believe the drag racing community more than an article or two.
Great points KJ, and with my car running at about 190 most of the time, I feel like it's the perfect temp for both optimal operating temps and maintained performance. If you've ever raced your car around with the stock tstat in it and launched the car at 225-230 degrees coolant temp, well it's much less potent...it's a night and day difference at 180-190.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Agree with O-Racing... In Texas, I run the 180 stat year round. I have 180 stats in all three of my hemis but only lower the fans in the SRT for racing. The two jeeps benefit as long as you're rolling which is 90% of the toime.
Cooler head temps = less detonation. Biggest problem with the 93 octane tunes is finding good enough gas that won't cause KNKs. Thousands of tunned challengers trying to combat a few ST KNKs. Cooler temps is one of the best ways to do it so you don't have to run as much octane booster, meth or pull timing. Cooler engine = cooler intake charge. Cooler air = more power. Physics 101. Drag racers run fans to cool them down between runs for a reason...
Engine at 220 degrees heat soaks the under hood components much more than one running 190 or 195 thus heating up your AIT and intake manifold. ECU won't advance as much timing if your IAT and intake temps are high. Hemis hate heat and really lay over when hot. That is why everyone does as much as possible to help them run cooler.
Factory has higher stats for emission BS. Hotter gasses burn more and leave less of a carbon footprint. If concerned about your carbon footprint, should of bought a Prius.
In this case I would be more inclined to believe the drag racing community more than an article or two.
 
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#17 ·
Ya I understand the fact cooler temps are better my car does feel sportier on cool morning then 104-105 mid day temps. Just was curious if it would help keeping engine cooler. On my car I have noticed running to wally world then back home maybe 6-7 miles this thing is really warm. I made the mistake of checking catch can wow hot, hot, hot. Thanks everyone for your input.
 
#19 ·
People get codes with 180 stat only during the winter, only because the engine does not warm up fast enough during the winter months!
190 stat seems to be the sweat spot!!
Maybe you guys can help me out with understanding this - I'm a novice at this.

I thought a t-stat wouldn't make a difference in how fast the engine warms up. I always thought it was kind of a tipping point - once the engine hits ~180 (or 190, etc. - whatever the t-stat is made for) it opens to allow the coolant to pass into the system.

So, if I had two hypothetical exact same cars, but one with a 180 t-stat in 10 degree weather and another with a 200 t-stat (for example) in 10 degree weather, will not both engines warm up to 180 degrees in the same amount of time, irregardless of tstat? For the 200 degree t-stat, it's just going to let the engine continue to warm 20 degrees more before opening? Or are the CEL codes mentioned due more for the tune where the fans are kicking in at a much lower temperatures than stock, which is going to delay the engine warming up quick enough in cold weather?

Thanks for any light you guys can shed on this, trying to learn so I can be a bit more informed and knowledgable on how these cars work.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Only in the summertime in my experience. Especially if you are using the a/c.

I'm not saying it's the same in the spring/fall, but in the winter time mine does stay in the 190s all the time.
 
#21 ·
Tstat alone, it will just let coolant pass through sooner. You'll get cooler operating temperatures while moving on the highway.
 
#25 · (Edited)
I have a million dollar question here see if you can give me an proper answer:

Why would a tune help to cool the engine, is it the fan speed that you can set with a tune?

from what I understand by reading about the T stat is A engine with a with A 180 or 190 Tstat and no tune is better off with the stock 203 stat true?
 
#26 ·
It's the temperature at which the fans come on that you can adjust, not the speed the fan spins at.

You are better off with the cooler stat, even without a tune, but there will be some times when the temperature gets back up to the stock values, mainly during the summer and when you run the a/c.
 
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#28 ·
While driving back from Florida yesterday, the temps outside were 101 degrees and my temp gauge was reading a steady 219-221 degrees. I plan on installing the 180 t-stat later on.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Definitely NOT a waste of money. Car runs better with it, with fans settings lowered, the car runs at a near 190.F all the time. Anything over 200.F and the power drops off. Heck, even the Camaro / Vette engines come with a factory 187.F tstat. Why ours come with a 203.F tstat, who knows, maybe for emissions reasons.
It sure as heck isn't for performance :lol:
 
#30 ·
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#31 ·
There are two types of thermostats on the market--wax pill and spring controlled. A wax pill thermostat (such as those manufactured by Jet Performance) uses wax, melting at a specific temperature, to control the flow valve. Not only is this type more accurate, but slightly more expensive. A spring controlled thermostat (such as your common Stant) uses a coiled spring, controlling the valve as the spring expands and contracts. Regardless, both designs do incorporate a steam hole, which does allow a very small amount of coolant to bypass even when closed.

Regardless of the design, the valve remains closed until the pre-calibrated temperature is reached. Once at this pre-calibrated temperature, the flow valve begins to open. If the outside operating temperature is very cold, the valve may barely open (or not at all). If the outside operating temperature is very hot, the valve may run fully open, at which the cooling system is performing at its maximum effort. If the combination of engine heat and/or outside temperature exceeds the capability of the cooling system, the engine coolant temperature will continue to rise. Note, the thermostat has absolutely no effect on cooling system performance, it only regulates the temperature within its capability. I've even seen folks completely remove the thermostat, and still have overheating issues because the cooling system capability was exceeded (resultant of other cooling system issues).

The thermostat will affect the heating system. The heater is nothing more than a small radiator (referred to as a heater core) with a fan blowing the heat into the cabin, using engine coolant as the heat source. If the engine operates at a cooler temperature, so does the heater core, thus reducing your heating capability.

With this said, changing your thermostat to a lower temperature will not provide any noticeable hp gain in itself. With an associated tune, you can run hotter cylinder temperatures and more ignition timing, which "may" net a few additional hp, but at the expense of higher emissions, possibly reduced fuel economy, and increased cylinder wear.

I've attached a graph I've had for about 15 years. I can't remember the university that executed the study, but it shows the relation between cylinder wear and engine operating temperature. FYI, most pre-EFI engines ran 180° engine operating temperatures, then slowly transitioned to 195° then 210-215° as engine technology and EFI controls advanced.
 

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#32 ·
Well I guess the good news is that even with a Jet 180, you are in the ideal range! With the stock tstat, you are off the chart.

Other good news is that graph pre-dates modern synthetic oils which surely help, and at least for us SRT guys, our piston oil squirters kind of drive oil temperatures up to where you never have to worry about flashing the oil(212+). Even on a 5.7 though, I wouldn't sweat it.
 
#38 ·
"Heat soak", another term thrown around here like it's some sort of plague. Guys, all engines heat up, and when they do the air in the engine compartment does as well. It doesn't matter what thermostat you run, the engine bay will heat up, thus reducing the intake air density (if pulling from an under-hood source). This is further exacerbated when the engine is shut off and the air remains stagnant with no form of cooling. If you are experiencing noticeably degraded performance when hot, install a cold air induction system. This will draw in cool, dense, air (in comparison the the under-hood air) for the intake charge. Furthermore, installing ceramic coated headers will further help with under-hood thermal control (and add hp). As cool as the stainless headers look, they emit a lot of heat. Another solution is wrapping the headers or manifolds (not recommended), however moisture will trap and result in corrosion.

Heat soak really doesn't become a problem until you experience vapor lock. Vapor lock results when the fuel essentially boils in the fuel line, creating vapor. Once this happens, the engine will become difficult (if not impossible) to start until the line is cleared and liquid fuel circulates through the line. With fuel injection, the fuel is under constant high pressure during operation, thus preventing vapor lock. Once the engine is shut off, vapor lock is possible. On our Challengers (and nearly every electronic fuel injected engine out there), the fuel pump momentarily pressurizes before starting to pressurize the line and prime the engine for starting (like pumping the pedal on a carbureted engine before starting). With carbureted engines, the problem is more frequent, as the fuel can boil in the carburetor fuel bowl and fuel lines because of the low operating fuel pressure. FWIW, I recently had my black 2014 Challenger R/T classic at Edwards AFB (Mojave Desert) for two weeks, with temperatures between 100-110° the entire time, and it performed flawlessly. Same goes for my 1978 Trans Am and 1973 Thunderbird, both carbureted and both daily driven in central California with temperatures as high as 115°...no heat soak, no vapor lock.

With this said, heat soak is a problem that really isn't a problem with modern cars. Every manufacturer tests their engines and vehicles in extreme climates before production, usually far beyond the normal operating conditions most would endure, and in my opinion Dodge did well with their R&D.

Now if you want heat soak, try flying a mechanically fuel injected, reciprocating engine, airplane in the hottest part of summer in Florida and try re-starting it after sitting on the ground in between a flights.
 
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#40 · (Edited)
It's like these guys don't think the Chrysler engineers don't test anything. Bet the new Hellcat has a 195+ degree thermostat and it'll make plety of power with it.

They just want to believe all the snake oil salesmen that are selling them a $5 thermostat for $20+ is going to do something MAGICAL. Same with CAI's, air filters, spark plugs, wires, coils,.......
 
#44 ·
Heat soak might be less of a factor in other engines, but in the 6.1 is NOT a thing of fiction. It is something that has been experienced by countless others, and common knowledge among those who tune these cars. Running at 215 - 220+ F my car felt like a slug compared to the present 190.F. Your opinion on the matter does not override real life results.

And btw, I don't know what engine you have in your vette, but GM's LS3 has a 187.F tstat from the factory. They are stamped 86.C.
 
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