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6-speed transmission woes, car at dealership

17K views 70 replies 26 participants last post by  Roody 
#1 ·
Long story short: my Challenger's transmission has never been super-smooth, and things seem to be getting worse. I test-drove 4 other Challengers before buying mine and figured maybe the transmission needed to be "worn in" or was just not fully warmed up when I test drove the one I purchased, but the problems I've been experiencing (listed below) have gotten worse since I brought it home. In short, shifts are pretty rough, some worse than others, and it began to concern me to the point of needing to bring it in to get looked at. The car now has ~13,500 miles on it and is at the dealership until further notice. The symptoms it was displaying were:

-Roughness moving the gearshift into 1st/2nd, especially when cold (feels as if you have to really force it...almost as if there's rocks in the way of the direction it's supposed to go)
-Rough 2-3 shift
-3-2 downshift feels awful (again, extremely rough and the transmission is reluctant to do as you want it to)
-4-5 upshift occasionally is reluctant to let you into 5th

For the most part these issues are amplified when the transmission is not sufficiently warmed up, and even then they're concerning. None of this makes the car undriveable, but it makes it unpleasant and sometimes it feels as if you're forcing it beyond its will do go from gear to gear, almost as if something is on the verge of breaking.

Recently these issues got to the point that I felt it had to be looked at by Dodge. Dropped the car off at my dealership this morning and just spoke to somebody there regarding the situation.

Somebody in the service department drove the car around and felt the same things I was describing, calling them "definite irregularities" and noting that they need to look into getting it fixed. Supposedly they have sent an email to Chrysler (FCA?) and are waiting to hear back as to if there is a TSB or other common repair out there for these issues. They didn't have a timeframe to get it sorted out, but the lady in the service department that I spoke with said they will likely be dropping the transmission tomorrow morning and then opening it up to assess "internal issues." Glad I have a warranty, that's for sure.

I'm hoping to know more by tomorrow afternoon. Updates to come.
 
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#2 ·
#3 ·
This has been a HUGE ISSUE!!!!

Do not let Dodge tell you that, "that is normal". Here is the Dodge Star Case # from 2009. You will find threads all over the internet on how Dodge basically put glue instead of grease in assembly. Here's the case and simply pick any forum or search engine and search for Tremec 6-speed issues and you will have months of reading dis-pleasure. This issue cost me over 5k last year. Make them fix it.

Dodge Star Case # S1021000004 or K38556860

Vehicle Issue Trans is hard to shift into gear.
Year 2009
Model LC - CHALLENGER
Engine 6.1L SRT HEMI (SMPI) V8, 5.7L HEMI VCT, 5.7L HEMI VCT
MDS (EZD)
System or Component;Gear
Driver Input / Vehicle Operation; Shifting

Case Verification; Vehicle affected is the LC Challenger equipped with a manual
transmission. It may be difficult to shift in and out of gear.

Recommendation ;Repair this condition by removing the transmission, cleaning the
transmission input shaft splines and the clutch hub splines, regreasing,
and putting all the same parts back together. No parts need to be replaced because clutch disc wear or shaft/hub spline wear are not contributing factors.
The clutch should be removed from the flywheel to properly clean
the clutch splines, because it is not possible to thoroughly clean
the clutch splines otherwise. Do not use harsh spray solvents
(brake clean, etc.) on the clutch discs... care must be taken to
keep cleaning solvents away from the clutch friction material.
Mineral spirits or similar will get the job done. Both of the clutch
hub splines and transmission input shaft splines must be
carefully cleaned. When applying the grease for reassembly, the
entire exposed length of the clutch hub splines (both discs) and
the entire length of the input shaft should be lightly coated with
the P/N 05083150AA grease, spread evenly on all splines
without excess. The flywheel does not need to be removed for
this repair. New clutch pressure plate to flywheel bolts P/N
06508880AA (quantity 6) must be used.
 
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#4 ·
I guess I'm lucky. Mine is smooth as butter. Even at 15 degrees F, without warming up, it slips right into every gear. Great tranny. I've had many standard shifts, and driven many more. This is one my favorites.

If yours was bad from day one, perhaps someone did you the favor of ruining all the synchronizing gears for you before you picked it up.


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#5 ·
Thanks for the responses.

iamawild1 - didn't find anything on that link

swiftjr - sounds like a horror story. You paid out of pocket for the repairs, or did you still have a warranty? How about timeframe on getting the car back?

Trainmaster - definitely lucky, there's a lot of people having issues with the 6-speed, and it's not just Challengers. Same tranny in the Camaros and they're having problems too.
 
#7 ·
LONG Story.

With the moral being, if it is not directly warrantied by Dodge, DO NOT buy a 3rd party warranty. Although I had the Dodge Star case information, the adjuster blamed it on the throw-out bearing and said it was not covered because it was part of the clutch. So my 3k warranty was pretty much useless. So originally it was going to be 3800.00 for the tranny and clutch. BUT, you can no longer get the crappy brass syncos, so that was another 1500.00 to upgrade to carbon fiber. All out of pocket, and over 6 weeks to go through the whole pathetic process. I got a great deal on my Challenger (7k under KBB), and I am getting buried in it, so I figured it was a good investment. It is night and day over stock, and I haven't missed a shift since.
 
#6 ·
3/24 update:

Called the dealership around 2 PM to see if they had any info (if they had heard back from Dodge; if they had started work on the car) and got an "all representatives are busy" message. Strange. Called back around 2:30 and was told the service writer working on my car was out to lunch and would call me in a half hour. 4 PM, still no call, so I called them again...what can I say, I'm impatient...

The lady I spoke with who's handling my case (who is very nice, I must add) told me they have yet to hear back from Dodge and didn't have time to start work on my car today due to them finishing up another vehicle that their service guy who specializes in transmissions was working on.

Early in the conversation she tells me it will likely be there 5-6 days...then later on says they'll probably have it for over a week. So the saga continues. Just wish they had a loaner they could have given me...guess I'll be taking them up on the Enterprise rental deal...
 
#8 ·
Update from yesterday 3/25:

-Transmission is apart
-Parts are on order
-5th gear is "shot" and being replaced
-Planetary assemblies on 2nd/3rd were overly worn and being replaced
-Dealer is expecting to have the car until Tuesday/Wednesday of next week (I have a rental Journey SXT through the Enterprise which the dealership pays for)
 
#12 ·
. . . -Planetary assemblies on 2nd/3rd were overly worn and being replaced . . .
I didn't think there are planetary assemblies in the manual transmission. As far as I know you have a main shaft with gears and a secondary shaft with gears. Planetary assemblies are usually found in an automatic transmission.

Maybe they meant synchronizer assemblies.
 
#9 ·
That doesn't say much for the quality of that tranny. I hope you get it back soon & don't have any more problems.
 
#11 ·
All I have heard is the manual tranny IS pretty reliable. My '13 RTC shifts great... only has 11k miles on it though.

I know a handful of RT and SRT manual folks and none have reported issues. Varying model years too.
 
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#13 ·
The issues are spotty, but if you search there's a ton of them out there. Camaro guys with the 6-speed (same TR6060) are supposedly experiencing the same issues.

I didn't think there are planetary assemblies in the manual transmission. As far as I know you have a main shaft with gears and a secondary shaft with gears. Planetary assemblies are usually found in an automatic transmission.

Maybe they meant synchronizer assemblies.
I was just relaying exactly what the service writer told me via phone yesterday... :guiness:
 
#17 ·
There have been a few with QC issues.

Another member I know on this forum Gunslinger, got a new '11 SRT - had shifting issues and when it was torn down (with just a couple thousand miles) they replaced the shift rods and a couple of other internals due to things not being right.

Ever since, his works as it should.

I just had the Star Case (mines an early '09) done at the beginning of March '15 and it shifts smoother and effortlessly than ever before. I thought the intermittent clutch "hanging/sticking" was the main issue...but it was affecting shift smoothness as well.
 
#20 ·
So to make a long and utterly frustrating story short, I was given entirely incorrect information all week. It turns out that they had been telling me about a Wrangler that was having its transmission repaired, meanwhile my Challenger was sitting there at the dealership basically untouched.

They told me that they didn't find anything wrong with the transmission, even despite my very specific explanations and telling them that it's worse now than it was when I bought it. They said that since they didn't have another vehicle to compare it to, they couldn't do anything about it.

Needless to say, I'm pissed...I took the car back with the condition that they'll take it right back in if anything gets worse. It's one thing to have a dealer's service center tell you they can't find anything wrong because they can't drive it back-to-back with another Challenger to see if there's any difference in the feel of the shifts, but it's another to have been lied to all week. The car was there from 7:30AM Monday to 2:00PM Friday, I had to beg them for updates, and then when it's within a couple hours of service closing, they tell me the car is "done" and I can pick it up...and "oh, by the way, it wasn't your car we were working on even when we said we were working on it, so it's just been sitting here most of the week while we tell you it's being worked on." Not happy, but it's not the end of the world.
 
#22 ·
Just to update...
Car just crossed 25,000 miles this weekend (car is 1 year & 2 months old). Transmission goes from being smooth with an occasional hiccup to plain old fighting back. Twice in the last 2 days has it entirely bounced me out of 2nd on its on will, and it continues to hate the 3-2 downshift and occasionally the 4-5 upshift. I plan on installing the Barton shifter (hoping it will help fix these problems) but want Dodge to at least have on file that there's a problem with my car's transmission (this will be trip #3 to service for the trans) in case something worse happens internally. There's also a loud clunking noise that has developed from the left rear of the car, but that's another thing that needs assessing.

Called the dealer 4 times today to schedule service, and it went to voicemail every time.

To be continued...
 
#23 ·
My 2015 SRT transmission is starting to tick me off. Rowing through the gears racing the car, first to second is perfect, second to third is a 50/50 chance it will grind. All of the other gears are fine. I've installed the Barton short shifter hoping it would correct it but not as of yet. I don't know what to do. Do I tell the dealer that the transmission grinds going into 3rd gear at high rpm? Are they going to tell me that I'm abusing the car?

R.K.
 
#24 ·
Keep us posted is you get it looked at. Seems like it's very hit-or-miss with Dodge/FCA, some people are getting help and others are left to deal with an imperfect transmission and the phrase "sorry, we can't replicate the problem you're describing" ringing in their head.
 
#26 ·
I would not put an aftermarket shifter on it. Dodge will immediately point to it and claim it's the cause of everything!
 
#27 ·
Just an update--

2nd gear seems to have gotten worse. Anytime I go from neutral straight into 2nd it feels as if it doesn't want to slot in properly, and makes it extremely difficult to get into gear. 1-2 shifts can be the same. The gate itself doesn't seem to be clearly defined (whereas the others are), and while it's easy to find where 2nd gear is supposed to be it feels like you have to roughly pull it into 2nd itself. 3-2 downshifts remain almost undoable, i.e. rough and as if there is something "in the way," preventing trans from being able to properly slot into 2nd gear.

Furthermore, it is on a continually increasing basis that when the shifter is fully in the 2nd gear gate, it acts as if the car is in neutral. The gearshift is entirely in its proper spot as if you should be fully in 2nd, but letting out the clutch results in the RPMs climbing and there being no forward action. This occurs mostly when going from 1st to 2nd but a few times has happened when going from neutral to 2nd. It's happened a few times that were extremely inopportune, but luckily none of which have been in would-be dangerous situations.

Yesterday the trans grinded going into 2nd gear for the first time. I accelerated from a stop in 1st, pushed the clutch in, pulled the gearshift into 2nd, and got a massive grinding sound and vibration from the shifter. I had not yet let out the clutch and put it back into first as I was only doing about 7 MPH. This is the first time this has happened.

The 4-5 upshift remains an inconsistent problem. Occasionally it will bounce me out of 5th gear; there seems to be no rhyme or reason as to how/when this happens.

I understand that while these issues with the transmission do not happen every time, it is easy enough to feel how bad 2nd gear feels. The car has also developed a loud clunk in the left-rear suspension going over bumps/potholes, unrelated but noticeable. That on top of the UConnect issue that it's having is all coming together to result in a fair level of frustration.

I have an appointment for Monday for an oil change and also for the transmission to be looked at again, as well as for the clunk and UConnect issues. This will be the 4th time I have brought it in with the trans as a concern [not the 3rd as I said in a post above, I found records of another time it was brought in for this], with them having addressed the problem three of the four times, telling me they "can not replicate the issue." Their exact words once we're "we don't have another Challenger to compare it to."

If they fail to remedy any of this I plan to bring the car to another dealership for service. I'll cross that bridge if/when the time comes. But if it gets to that point and another dealer can't fix anything, I'll be heavily researching Connecticut's Lemon Law. For the time being, I plan on documenting everything here.
 
#28 ·
Based on your description, I had an idea. What if the skip shift on your car is broken or only partly working. Then at times when the car is trying to lock you out from second gear, the gate is only partially blocking second gear and you're able to get past it? If it's a flaky skip shift, I wonder if a skip shift eliminator would solve the problem???

Mike
 
#30 ·
Not sure. It feels more mechanical than anything, especially considering the gate of the same gear isn't smooth feeling. I wouldn't rule out it being the skip-shift mechanism, but am reluctant to install a skip-shift eliminator (which I have sitting on my desk) until the dealership has addressed the issue.


it sounds like you have significant synchronizer issues - the grinding going into gear and having it kick back out are bad signs.

There might be other internal parts that have issues as well. This may have been exacerbated by what sounds like a dragging clutch - this would put more wear & tear on the synchros, shift and select rails.
Some others suggested synchros as well.
 
#29 ·
it sounds like you have significant synchronizer issues - the grinding going into gear and having it kick back out are bad signs.

There might be other internal parts that have issues as well. This may have been exacerbated by what sounds like a dragging clutch - this would put more wear & tear on the synchros, shift and select rails.
 
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#31 ·
Are you rev matching when going from 3-2? Before my wife loosened up my synchro's the only way I could comfortably go into 2 at any speed above 10mph was to rev match. I could force it and listen to it catch up but I didnt like that feeling.

I also read this from the beginning and the whole shifting when cold problem is normal from what I understand. Has something to do with the hydraulic clutch fluid. Someone correct me if im wrong please.
 
#33 ·
I'm sure it would not make a difference to you folks with newer cars, but just as another data point.......My shifts were always pretty good, little notchiness when cold, etc. but while it was at the dealer for something else, I had them change the lube in the gearbox.

Nothing fancy, just whatever Dodge recommends.

The first 2 days I thought I'd made a terrible mistake and the previous owner must have had Royal Purple or Quantum Blue or something in there. Shifts were stiff and horrible...like rowing through porridge.

After a total of about 50 miles, it loosened right up and shifts even better than before. Wonder if it took that long for the new lube to work its way in, or thin out somewhat? I have no idea.

It did make me a believer of these folks that say moving to a high end, premium fluid feel a definite improvement though. If I can feel this much difference just from replacing 5 year old fluid with whatever Dodge is using now, then that premium stuff probably shows a huge improvement.

Now that the dealership was kind enough to loosen up the drain and fill plugs for me :) maybe I'll try it.
 
#34 ·
I'm sure it would not make a difference to you folks with newer cars, but just as another data point.......My shifts were always pretty good, little notchiness when cold, etc. but while it was at the dealer for something else, I had them change the lube in the gearbox.
Good to know (& thank you for the info) but this should not be something to worry about with a one-year-old car unless the trans was built a long time before it was installed by Dodge
 
#35 ·
For those interested, I was able to grab a quick video depicting part of the transmission issue. This was done stationary going from neutral to 2nd. Here's my description that I posted with the video itself, hopefully summarizing the issue: "As you go into the gate for 2nd and pull down into the gear, it hits a "wall" as I've been calling it, and then there's still another bit you have to pull it for it to be fully in gear. It is easy to mistake the "wall" for it being in gear, but releasing the clutch results in the car acting as if it's in neutral. You do have to apply some extra pressure to get it past the "wall" itself but it's in gear once you do so. This problem occurs regularly when going from neutral to 2nd, occasionally when going from 1st to 2nd, and has made 3-2 downshifts feel as if they're on the verge of breaking the transmission (forcing me to avoid the 3-2 downshift altogether)."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNhDLkrpt7g&feature=youtu.be


Car was dropped off at the dealership this morning.
 
#38 ·
I've had a lot of the same issues since my 2013 was new. Repeated trips to my dealer have resulted in the standard responses, but no resolution. People suggest that I take my car to another dealer, but we don't have many FCA dealers left in these parts, and word on the street is that the service departments at the other Dodge dealers here are even WORSE than mine. But if I don't get this fixed soon, I'll have to give them a try regardless. I feel like a dog chasing his tail.

Well, thanks for detailing your situation, and please keep us updated.
 
#39 ·
My 14 M6 will get that 2nd gear wall you describe occasionally but as far as all of your other issues, no way, mine shifts extremely smooth and easy up or down. I say you need a transmission so I guess find another dealer to look at it. Popping out of gear should never happen ever but not sure if something in the shifter or adjustment could cause that, but guessing that is transmission internal, synchros? I agree with the poster saying not to install an aftermarket shifter, that will almost certainly doom your chances of getting anything fixed in this particular case. I'm thinking that 2009 bulletin will not apply to your car anyway as I would assume the splines on our cars were correctly lubricated. But shifting issues can be traced to clutch issues and these are heavy dual disc clutches on these cars so a good clean realease is crucial. Dealer will have to check everything Stay on them.


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