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Car in dealership for odd issue

26K views 81 replies 19 participants last post by  djpiezo 
#1 ·
I have waited about 5 days to confirm the problem before I took it in, but basically this is the issue

On early morning cold start, the car will start up, and immediately turn off after RPMs rev for a second

On second attempt it will Always start up like a champ, no issues at all, like nothing ever happened.

Car drives perfectly, can turn it on and off during the day with no issues, but sure enough the following morning when trying to start it up , it will turn off immediately and then start up right after like all was well.

I replicated this issue 5 days in a row since we had cold(ish) mornings of about 45 or so degrees .

Car does not throw up any error codes, and dealership found absolutely nothing wrong . I'm leaving it overnight and they will hook it up when trying to start it up in the morning

Really strange, what do you guys think?
 
#2 ·
Battery maybe?
 
#3 ·
Could be I guess, battery seemed fine .
The strange thing is that once it fails to start once , it will ALWAYS start up the second time without a single issue and be fine during the day until it's left to sleep in the cold for another 12 hours or so.
 
#4 ·
Doesnt sound like a battery issue... if it was it wouldnt turn over or on 2nd attempt would prob start clicking. Is this u in the car starting? Or remote start activation? Sounds like some type of fail during a vehicle diagnostic check. Crankshaft position sensor.. vehicle passlocks...cracked circuit boards are nutorious for temp change issues. Honestly it could be a multitude of things hopefully the dealer can replicate the issue and diagnose it. I hate when they say, "i cant get it to do what you are saying".... and then just joyride around in your car pretending they are working.
 
#6 ·
Well see what they say, It's 100% re-produceable , and like I said , it is just on the first start (same thing happens with remote start) on 2nd start it always works perfectly with no issues , like there's no problem at all
 
#7 ·
Sounds like the old WIN module failure. Some WIN modules had to be replaced because they would shut the car off after 2-3 seconds, thinking you just started it with an invalid FOB. The symptoms you describe (even the good 2nd start) are symptoms of the WIN module going bad. The WIN module is the module that connects to the start button behind the dash. Other symptoms of the WIN module going bad are occasional "key FOB not detected", dead dash (no idiot lights), crank for 20 seconds and no start, and even dying while driving but that's more rare. Another thing that points to WIN module is if you had a bad sensor or other engine related problem, you'd get a trouble code. The WIN module is not linked to the PCM trouble code system so when it goes bad, it typically doesn't produce a trouble code.

Mike
 
#8 ·
I guess that's possible, but besides the instant shut-down on cold starts, I have not really experienced any of the other symptoms. Key fob is always detected, no codes at all, dash is fine .
Well see what they say
 
#9 ·
Well of course dealership can't recreate the issue
I pick up the car , and get out this morning 34 degrees outside, a nice and cold start - and car starts like a champ . No problem at all
Really odd , I guess I'll just have to keep on monitoring situation and see if it happens again . I get if a strange fluke happens once , but not 5 times in a row and then disappears .
 
#11 ·
Take out the push-button start and use the key for a few mornings???
 
#12 ·
Not an option on a 15
And again, it always starts on 2nd attempt
Now seems like problem is resolved so ...... just a phantom ?:)
 
#13 ·
2nd day in a row - cold start and car starts up like it's nobody's business .
For now , I'll have to just mark it down as a week long fluke , and hope the problem does not return.
 
#14 ·
So a little update
After the issue happening consistently for a week, It has only happened once in past 2 weeks (and tempertures have been colder)
Car runs fine, no issues at all
Really strange , I guess I can pretty much say the problem just came and went on it's own .
 
#15 ·
Maybe a fuel problem? Fuel pump not turning on right away, engine dies but pump finally turns on right afterwards allowing start-up #2 to work problem free?
 
#37 ·
Do you top off your tank when filling, or stop after the first auto shutoff? There has been talk of this problem being related to the tank being overfilled and fuel washing into the evap canister lines.

Mike
That's a good point Mike. I had my 06 300c did the dying thing after filling up then restart and every thing was fine. They (Chrysler ) did a recall it was a bad roll over valve in the gas tank. They replaced the gas tank and no more problems. I also had a problem 1 time with the win module. I got the fob not recognized and car would not start with the push button. I pulled the button out and started it with the key. Dealer told me they had some win modules that were bad. There were no codes so they told me if it did it again they would put a new module in. That was over a year ago and it has not done it again.
 
#19 ·
So after the problem happened sporadically here and there, I took a chance and took it to the dealer and thankfully they managed to re-create it .

The problem is that it only happens on cold starts (after the car naps for an extended period of time) and even then , a week can go by without the issue occurring. So it could have been there for over a week without the problem ever happening

Luckily after the car spent the night at the dealership they managed to re-create it , while it was hooked up to sensors .

As of now the dealership is just totally baffled and so is Chrysler . No codes are showing up , no obvious errors, as if the car just turned itself off, and on a 2nd attempt always turns itself right on like nothing ever happened.
They are opening a star center case and trying to get some Chrysler engineers involved to see if they can nail this thing down .

Just completely strange - does not seem to be effecting anything else (at least as far as I can tell by driving the car)
 
#21 ·
Nope and can happen with both fobs and using both remote start and regular push button start
Car starts and immediatly dies
it ALWAYS starts perfectly and runs great on 2nd attempt
The issue itself happens on average now, maybe once every week or so
 
#22 ·
So after the issue returned for 2 days straight, car is back in the dealership . Even though, I'm a bit upset that problem is there with a brand new car, I'm not really upset with the dealership .Especially since once you re-create the problem. the car needs to sit there cold for half a day to even have a chance of re-creating it again .
The fact that there are no codes, and no frame of reference with pre-15 Challengers, just makes it more difficult .
I did talk for a while with the service manager and two of the techs and both suspected an electronic gilitch or programming issue much more than a mechanical problem.
Well see what happens- star center case has been opened .
 
#24 ·
Sorry to hear you are experiencing an issue with your new vehicle. Please keep us posted on the dealer's final assessment.
 
#23 ·
I am not a mechanic, but I like a good mystery so I'll through out my guess... As the car sits, the pressure in the fuel line drops because of a small leak in a check valve or something in the fuel pump is letting fuel leak back into the tank. When you start the car, there is a drop in pressure that causes the car to shut off. Restart the car and you are on your way. Or if there is a sensor that monitors fuel pressure, that could be bad. This might be an interesting test if you have two days to try it. Start the car, let it fail off, then don't restart the car. Let it sit for another day and try it again. I wonder if it will have the same failure the second day.
 
#25 ·
I may do that
I would assume a condition like that could possibly throw up a code, wouldn't it?
 
#27 ·
I have a 15 SRT and mine is doing the same thing, the only difference I only drive mine on the weekends. I had other things to do this weekend so I didn't try starting it. I also checked mine both times and it says no codes found. I was planning on taking it into the dealer latter this week or next. PM your dealer info and I will do the same when I take mine in.
 
#28 ·
I was wondering when the issue would come up for someone else.
Sorry you are experiencing it as well, but in a way it's nice to know it's not a strange isolated incident .
 
#29 ·
So a little update
Car has been in dealership now for 4 days (they are giving me a rental today), Star Center is apparently having the dealer try various things .
The issue is of course that every time something changes, you have to wait around 12 hours to see if there was any effect , so this could be time consuming .
Hope they nail this down, I can see how it can be a pain to figure out exactly . The one thing i find really strange is that this got past QC . I assume that at some point in the car's life , between leaving the factory and getting to me, someone must have cold started it and noticed "hey this is not normal"
 
#30 ·
Stantz,
How many miles due you have? Mine started around 300 miles and I have a little under 500. I plan on checking mine Friday morning when it warms up in AZ it should be in the high 70's. Then Saturday the temp drops and will start it that evening, will send feed back after testing.
 
#31 ·
Currently 1200 miles on car
I noticed the problem pretty much immediately
How many times have you managed to recreate it so far?
 
#32 ·
Stantz,
Sorry haven't had a chance to check to see if mine is still stalling on start up. We welcomed our second granddaughter this week and she had a few issues and had to go to NICU. She went home and everything is good now. I haven't started mine for 18 days, plan on starting it tonight and see what happens. Have they found anything on yours?
 
#33 ·
First off congrats ! , I had a daughter born this june who had to spend her first week in the NICU (not fun for anyone)
Car has now been there for a full week, neither dealership or star center can figure what's going on
should be getting an update today
 
#34 ·
So apparently , Chrysler had the dealership tech try to chase down various things, including an exhaust leak, software problems, etc - all of which turned out to be negative . Next is fuel pump / line , so it's another day at dealership.
The actual tech suspected fuel system (pump or line) for a while but apparently the folks at Star Center made him try everything else under the sun before
 
#35 ·
In the old days when we had real mechanics, not techs this would have been diagnosed and repaired in a day, two at most. First thing should have been was a pressure gauge on the fuel line to see if it holds or bleeds down.
 
#36 ·
Isn't it a bit messed up ? I understand having to follow specific procedure so that If issue is identified it can be deployed as a fix across network of dealerships. But star center just seems to use the local dealership tech a puppet

Perform A, if does not work , perform B, C , D etc etc

And of course since this is an intermittent issue that happens only on cold starts, it can easily take 24 hours to confirm whether a fix resolved the problem.

I just hope they do nail it down and get it resolved for both myself and anyone else experiencing the same problem
 
#39 ·
I still have a similar problem with my car, except when I attempt to crank it after the start/stall, it just spins over. I have to cycle the start button a couple times and it fires right up like nothing happened.

And in defense of dealer technicians (because I used to be one...) They want to fix your car. They want to find weird problems like this. They also want to get paid.

The service manager at a dealership has the authority to pay only a couple hours of diagnostic time under warranty before they have to get approval from a regional manager. Having been a dealer tech, I got screwed on crap like that more than a few times.

If you want the regional manager to approve more time, you damn well better have gone through all the steps recommended by STAR. Otherwise it won't happen.

For me personally, I got tired of calling them primarily because they do have you run down every single possible cause. The diagnostic steps are usually fool proof and they will eventually find the problem but I got tired of wasting my time.

So having said all that, go easy on the techs. They just want to get paid for their time.
 
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#40 ·
I'm sure they do, and as annoyed as I initially was with the situation (having a 2 month old car , spend 2 weeks in a dealership). I'm still confident that they will track it down . This is not a little hard to notice rattle, or some sort of subjective "it drives kinda weird" problem.
It's been re-created by the dealership multiple times, both them and Chrysler are completely aware of what's going on
At this point I'm just really curious to see what the cause is , and take my baby back home
 
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