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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2011, 05:02 PM
ragtop4spto6spd?'s Avatar
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Yeah, I guess you have (but then I learned from the best, Chicago style).
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Old 09-27-2011, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ragtop4spto6spd? View Post
Sounds like there are potential fluids and parts issues that can occur, but did I just arrive from Mars? Does any car buff with an automatic bounce his car hard off the parking pall when parking, or peg the pall on a steep hill BEFORE applying parking brake? Does any car buff with a manual park against the transmission first, before applying parking brake? On Mars, we turn the car off in neutral, or in gear with clutch depressed, and then shift to neutral, AND THEN apply parking brake, AND THEN put car in gear as the last step. I put mine in second, not first. Also, we ALWAYS turn wheels to curb when curb is present, and when given a choice, park against wheel stop on the downhill side. When starting, we depress clutch AND shift to neutral, start car, then shift to first or reverse, as applicable.

I guess this comes from driving cranky vintage manual cars. Not saying this would have solved everyone's problems, especially those finding gunk inside, but there ARE procedures that are common sense based on the various laws of physics. Sorry, not meaning to sound smug, just adhering to physics.

It sounds as though you might be directing your comments towards me.

Let me clarify. The binding of these transmissions is difficult to diagnose because in "normal" usage it can take days or weeks to have the probblem crop up. The problem can and does happen when the vecicle is operated in the manner you describe. It is simply difficult to get anyone, other than someone else it has happend to, to belive you.
The roll trick does not need to be violent, it only takes a slight incline and a little pressure to make it happen. This is the best way to determine if it is indeed the disc sticking to the input shaft. and a very reliable way to get the car to "act-up" for the mechanic that is attempting to diagnose it.

Your mileage may vary.

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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2011, 05:29 PM
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No, really no disrespect meant and I was really only addressing the entire 5 pages of posts in total, no single post. I admit that I am not among the best shifters, and not among the best mechanics here either. I am not implying there were not mechanical problems. But when taken in total, the 5 pages of posts contained a number of parking/driving habits I had been trained to avoid. Long ago, I also frequently drove a fisheries truck carrying a couple thousand gallons of water and fish. When you have that riding behind you, you learn some serious rules about braking, parking, turning around on hills, etc. You know who would probably know best, those who learned truck driving in the military. They are serious about their rules.

Good luck to everyone, maybe this spawns some more discussion on parking tips we all can use. I've driven 4000 pound cars for 35 years. A world of difference from lightweights. My friend had his manual '72 Trans Am roll down a hill from a parking spot many years ago and crash. These kind of things get you thinking.
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Old 09-27-2011, 06:22 PM
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The parking brakes in these cars sucks, or at least mine does. Even on small inclines car still moves after applying hard parking brake. I am always extra careful when taking my foot of the normal brake to leave it in 1st gear as the car moves a bit.
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Old 09-27-2011, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ragtop4spto6spd? View Post
Good luck to everyone, maybe this spawns some more discussion on parking tips we all can use.

This thread has nothing what so ever do do with parking. It is stricly focused on the Tremec's knack for hanging up in certain situations.

Using "bad parking habits" (your definition and, I agree, bad..) can duplicate the issue and assist fellow owners in convincing their dealers that they have a legitimate problem......That is all.

By the way I only have 37 years behind the wheel so I am only one skip ahead of you.
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Old 09-27-2011, 08:36 PM
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So I'm respectfully still having problems determining if you are saying the transmission has an inherent weakness, where operational procedures such as taking care in parking properly actually would help (as in, doctor it hurts when I do this, and the doctor replies, well don't do that), or if you are saying a likely failure can happen regardless, and once this problem appears, pulling the transmission down and opening it up is an absolute necessity, but likely leads to a complete fix. I take it you are saying the latter, since you are also saying the thread has nothing whatsoever to do with parking. I'm still with the earlier poster, I'll keep folks' hands off my transmission as long as I can. I take it you are saying, my transmission has an equal chance of failing in this manner, whether or not I repeatedly park the car pinned against the transmission (and shift linkage through the powertrain) or not, before I apply parking brake.

I don't want to split hairs against the mechanical advice that several posters do need here on this thread, and if you say parking methods are actually off-topic, I've already said enough to let people contemplate their own parking habits.
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:08 PM
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It's not a weakness, it relates to the input shaft not being properly cleaned and lubricated before the transmission is originally installed in the vehicle. My bet is that the transmission gets coated with some sort of rust inhibitor after it is assembled to protect it in storage and shipment. This coating was/is not being properly removed from the input shaft before the transmission gets stuffed into the vehicle. The transmission does not have any internal issues that I am aware of and the issue is strictly related to the clutch disc hubs (dual disc) hanging up on dirty/sticky/dry input shaft splines.


The "jarring" that takes place when the vehicle is rocked when in gear at a stop multiplies the lockup probability.

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Old 09-28-2011, 12:02 AM
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OP - Best of luck with the repairs...hopefully all goes smoothly and they put it back together better than the assembly line did...
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 09-28-2011, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by cruiserdan View Post
It's not a weakness, it relates to the input shaft not being properly cleaned and lubricated before the transmission is originally installed in the vehicle. My bet is that the transmission gets coated with some sort of rust inhibitor after it is assembled to protect it in storage and shipment. This coating was/is not being properly removed from the input shaft before the transmission gets stuffed into the vehicle. The transmission does not have any internal issues that I am aware of and the issue is strictly related to the clutch disc hubs (dual disc) hanging up on dirty/sticky/dry input shaft splines.

The "jarring" that takes place when the vehicle is rocked when in gear at a stop multiplies the lockup probability.
I agree Dan, there is no weakness. I knew absolutely nothing about transmissions, clutches, shifters a few months ago except how to drive a stick. It's what I learned on 30+ years ago, and what I prefer to drive.

I drive my car every day and know it better than anybody, and I definitely consider not being able to remove the shifter from one gear to put in a lower gear because of traffic changes a problem that is not due to "poor parking habits". That is how far my problems had progressed before my dealership told Chrysler enough is enough, we have to do something, and they did exactly what the Star case called for and nothing more. They also didn't find anything out of the ordinary but still cleaned and replaced the grease.

The best explanation I found from all of my searching was this:

Between 23 splines and double clutch, and the possiblity they were still using higher heat Viper grease (apparently the high heat grease and the grease isn't efficient at the lower temps the Challenger operates at), all those surfaces and close tolerances make it wear forever, but bind VERY esaily. Also when you DO take to a dealer, referance that star center number, as that was put in the system by NAME CONFIDENTIAL, as he has worked on Vipers for years, the other LC car and KNOWS the tranny clutch setup. If your dealer has never serviced Vipers, they are lost on 6-speeds.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 09-28-2011, 03:36 PM
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Ok, let me try this one more time. Val, I understand you had a problem while driving, I assume others did too. That's significant and I sympathize, but allow me to drop that part out of consideration for a moment, because a part of this problem, as listed on THIS thread, IS related to parking, as others have explained.

Cruiserdan's own quote is, "The "jarring" that takes place when the vehicle is rocked when in gear at a stop multiplies the lockup probability." I applaud him and others helping to define this problem, especially when many dealers are not familiar enough with the car to track this down themselves. But given Cruiserdan's own quote, I view it as more important to operate MY Challenger the way I was taught to operate all vehicles. I enjoy the vehicle and drive it more agressively when I choose, but if I am given the option of two different ways to handle the car that are all the same to me, I'll handle any given car to put less stress on it. Maybe that's why my Dodges last between 150K to 240k miles.

Until Dodge recalls all our manual Challengers to do the cleaning and lubrication fix upfront for all of us, I'll USE Dan's advice, and continue to park to lessen the "jarring that takes place when the vehicle is rocked when in gear at a stop", as I have done all my years of driving manuals. I'm not here to argue. If it makes anyone feel better to say this is not about parking, I'll concede. Whatever suits you. But I will also take Dan's own advice, park the proper way by the book to keep stress off the gears as much as possbile (except I learned while researching this that parking in reverse or even first is recommended over 2nd, which I had used).

Sheesh. Anyway, I do appreciate the advice, I learned from it which is my purpose here, and I just might avoid visiting the shop with this problem (unless it hits me enroute, like it did Val).
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