Timing chain failure on the Dodge Challenger - Page 242 - Dodge Challenger Forum: Challenger & SRT8 Forums
 
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#2411 (permalink) Old 12-26-2012, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by USRWDV8 View Post
Yes, Brent, I think it's helpful to compare how fast the Hemi, and only the Hemi, is made to rev at a given speed (like about 70 since that's when failures seem to occur) depending on the model. This shows to those in denial that the models that don't fail operate differently from the Challengers, be it due to gearing/tire size or MDS programming. So the "Well, the Rams or Chargers are fine" argument is hogwash. I don't recall exactly what my Charger did, but its behavior was slightly different from my Challenger (I think it was way below 2,000 @ 65, for example). That's what they call a clue.

Personally, I don't think that 2,200 is killing the motor, just that this may be the sweet spot (so to speak) for harmful resonance. It does sound like wordplay, I know.
I get what your saying and I think you understand. It's not the smoking gun but it's a clue.

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#2412 (permalink) Old 12-26-2012, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Brent60 View Post
Go back and read its a comparison of a 5.7 ram and Challenger.




No its not getting side track its people being one minded. When I brought up the RPMs it was to give some sort of actual number. Instead of the guessing that keeps going on. It's a V8 that kicks in to 4 cylinder and at 2000 RPM that can create a perfect resonance/vibration to mess things up. I don't care about your prior four cylinder cars we are talking about a challenger. Remember companies cut corners this could have been something R&D didn't catch.
Don't see any help there.

A Challenger and Charger with the same motor, same gearing, turns the same rpm. Major difference is that there appears to be many more TC's that fail in the Challenger.

I guess I'm not following your "help"

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#2413 (permalink) Old 12-26-2012, 03:38 PM
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OK so I know we have seen a report of a hemi charger tc failure in this thread but I have googled for a tc failure in the 09+ 5.7 RAMs and have found nothing. Has this happened to the rams?

Don't know if this has been covered in this thread yet. I've been following it but really don't feel like going through 244 pages to maybe find an answer

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#2414 (permalink) Old 12-26-2012, 04:26 PM
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I agree with the resonance theory to a point.
you are assuming that every one drives 70 mph,2100 rpm and that is the sweet spot for resonance
how can you eliminate all other models based on that??
the guy with the RAM lives in Texas and runs 80 all the time at 2100 rpm.
the Charger cruises at 2100 rpm at 75 mph
the 300 might be 62mph
personally driving either car Charger or Challenger I rarely cruise above 60 but thats just me.
the above numbers are for reference only. Do you know where we might be able to find the final drive ratios for the above vehicles??
it might shed some light on this issue
my point is with all the other uses of this engine noone has ever cruised at 2100 rpm long enough to blow it up?? the failures are almost non existant on other uses
there has to be some other contributing factor

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#2415 (permalink) Old 12-26-2012, 05:20 PM
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The reason I used 70 was it seemed like a usual average of these failures.

The Ram I used was a stock SLT with stock 20s and stock 3.55s.

To the guy that can't grasp the concept of resonance go Google it or take a class.

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#2416 (permalink) Old 12-26-2012, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19johned53 View Post
A Challenger and Charger with the same motor, same gearing, turns the same rpm. Major difference is that there appears to be many more TC's that fail in the Challenger.
Except that several current and previous Charger owners have stated that the MDS operated differently than their Challengers. Less often and at different engine loads/RPM. Add that to what Brent60 is saying and there is valid info there.

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#2417 (permalink) Old 12-26-2012, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent60 View Post
The reason I used 70 was it seemed like a usual average of these failures.

The Ram I used was a stock SLT with stock 20s and stock 3.55s.

To the guy that can't grasp the concept of resonance go Google it or take a class.

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Wheel size would also be critical, If somebody bought larger aftermarket wheels it would move the resonance up to a proportionately higher speed. It would be interesting to know if the people that had the broken chains all had "stock" wheels.

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#2418 (permalink) Old 12-26-2012, 05:45 PM
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Except that several current and previous Charger owners have stated that the MDS operated differently than their Challengers. Less often and at different engine loads/RPM. Add that to what Brent60 is saying and there is valid info there.


so that would make it a programming issue, not a parts issue
as the parts will obviously last over 100,00 miles based on the mileage on other applications
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#2419 (permalink) Old 12-26-2012, 05:48 PM
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I believe it's something with the tune.

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#2420 (permalink) Old 12-26-2012, 06:14 PM
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When trying to figure out why the 300, Charger and Ram are not being affected like the Challenger is, think of it this way. Take four ounces of water an fill a small size wine glass. Wet your finger and ride it around the rim of the glass to make it sing. Now, take another four ounces of water and put it into a medium size wine glass, and do it again to a large size wine glass. Now run your fingers around the rims. Three different sounds emerge. The one thing different about the 300, Charger and Ram when compared to the Challenger is height, width and weight. Small, medium and large wine glasses. The harmonics may only be affecting the Challenger because it is in that range where the 300, Charge and Ram might be high or low of the range being of a different size. That's why the harmonics theory carries the most weight, but coupled with other factors that must be present.

Now, the four factors that I outlined a few posts back, i.e., (1) an aging timing chain (40,000+ miles); (2) high RPMs (2,300-2,500 RPM range); (3) sustained RPMs (in the 2,300-2,500 RPM range); and (4) MDS engaged, will create some kind of engine harmonics that resonate throughout the engine and is what is most likely causing the timing chain to begin its fatal wobble out of control. If any of the four factors are missing, the harmonics change and thus pulls the engine out of a danger zone and harms way. There certainly can be more factors that we have not yet identified, but these are the ones known so far which have not changed for some time. Just a theory but it is the one that make the most sense so far, to me anyway. Your mileage may vary.

I'll leave it you all to come to your own conclusions.


Last edited by raVenX; 12-27-2012 at 03:47 PM.
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