From what i have seen the chain will break one side of the link and cut into the guide until it splits and then the chain fails completely. Once guide splits it falls apart allowing chain to bounce around and fail.
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My auto 2010 RT Classic hovers around 2000 RPM at 70 MPH.
See it does seem a bit high which could cause extra vibrations and wear.
There is a definite difference in tunes between the Ram and Challenger having a 100-200rpm difference at 70... It would be nice if we could get the info for a 2010 300/Charger at 70. I may be way off but could be onto something. I own a six speed but would like to help you guys someway.
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have to verify same engine, trans, rear end ratio to be an even comparison. I would think they would be the same unless they are slipping the convertor which would kill mileage
2000 rpm would not be considered "extremely high" for an engine...otherwise there would be no way we could have a redline all the way out to 5800 rpm. 2000 is nothing for these engines, even indefinite running on a hwy.
Getting much below 2000 rpm is getting a bit low in rpm for 4-cylinder operation for any significant engine load, though. That would be from the power pulses in time getting too coarse and introducing elevated NVH to the system.
It's not that I really needed 370 hp...but having 150+ hp riding shotgun at a moment's bidding w/o a 6000 rpm moonshot is what makes me feel like I'm in the right car for me. The roar of a v8 seals the deal!
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Last edited by randycat99; 12-25-2012 at 05:49 PM.
2010 Ram 1500, 5.7 with MDS
5th gear, 70mph @ ~1900 RPM (need to double check with my friend on this)
It just seems the Auto R/T's are running extremely high RPMs at 70
1900 RPM @ 70 is not extremely high or even high IMO. Yes, 6th gear @ 70 is 1600ish with a 6 speed because of 5th and 6th being overdrives but 2000 is nothing.
Just for comparison sake and more data.
2010 R/T Classic with TP (3.90 gears)
6th gear, 70mph @ 1680 RPM
2010 Ram 1500, 5.7 with MDS
5th gear, 70mph @ ~1900 RPM (need to double check with my friend on this)
It just seems the Auto R/T's are running extremely high RPMs at 70
At the Spring Fest 4 event (March 2009), I happened to run into an engineer who helped design the Challenger and in discussing the pros and cons of what I liked and disliked about the car, the only thing negative I could say about the car was to explain that the 5-speed auto really needed an extra gear up top, i.e., a 6-speed auto. I further explained that I was running at 2,300 RPMs at 75 mph which seemed, to me at least, to be excessively high in our modern age. Running at a sustained 2,300-2,500 RPMs is a killer for these new modern engines. The 6-speed Challenger runs at about 1,800 RPM at about 75 mph with its sixth gear. Us automatic owners don't have the luxury of shifting into another gear after 5th, and therein lies the main different why the 6-speeds are not being affected by the timing chain failure. I have withheld what I thought was the cause, but I believe the high and sustained RPMs are complicated when MDS is engaged causing a vibration which sets an aging and stretched timing chain in motion to wobble out of control and thus break. These four factors, an aging chain (40,000+ miles), high and sustained RPMs with MDS engaged is what I believe will doom the engine. Up at highway speeds and left there for a while, I believe that an aging chain (which stretches over time) will begin to wobble and flex out of control and thus breaking and then taking out the tensioner as the broken timing chain whips around on its last revolution.
Now whether harmonics is what helps the timing chain begin its fatal wobble has yet to be determined, but what is certain, is that an aging timing chain left to sustained highway speed above 2,200 RPM will kill this engine within a few short hours of driving.
I have a early 2009 R/T 5.7 auto (built Jan. 2009). I currently have 66,000 miles on the car. When I first discovered these failures and created this thread I was uncertain as to the cause. Using a club member who only put highway miles on his car (often 4 hours at a time), I used him to get information. He suffered a timing chain failure and I began to think that maybe cruise control has something to do with it. After his engine was repaired he continued with his extensive highway driving but without cruise control. He suffered a second engine failure, so I ruled that out as a possible cause. Since my car hit 40,000 miles (the red zone), I have been driving in manual mode whenever I hit the freeway, and he has too. No failures yet.
I wouldn't expect everyone to agree with the above, but there is a way to test it out for yourself if you have a R/T auto. Hit the freeway in full auto mode, get your speed up to 70-75 mph and hold it there for a bit. Take note of the sound of the engine. Now, shift into manual mode (move the shifter to the right) and pay attention to the change in sound (frequency) and vibration of the engine. It is a lot less, a lot smoother and the vibration disappears.
I have absolutely no doubt that I can put my car in full auto mode (with 66,000 miles on the speedometer), hit the freeway, and head for Las Vegas a few hundred miles away and would not make it back without suffering a timing chain failure. My timing chain is aged, stretched, and ripe for failure if left to slap around with MDS engaged.
After all of the input I have received from people affected by this problem since I created this thread, this is the conclusion that I have come to based on all of the facts that are currently available. Of course, this is just my opinion. Only time will tell.
Caveat: If you chose to drive on the highway in manual mode, please be aware that the stopping distance of the car is greatly increased. You will not have the transmission to help you slow down during abrupt braking. Much like having a 6-speed, pushing in the clutch and slamming on the brakes. The transmission in manual mode cannot act fast enough to follow you down in gears for an abrupt stop. In fact, it will pretty much be no help at all. For simple hard or aggressive braking, like going into a turn, the transmission, in manual mode, will gear down with your braking, just not for abrupt stopping. You might want to test it out for yourself so that no surprises come your way.
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Last edited by raVenX; 12-25-2012 at 07:17 PM.
The Following User Says Thank You to raVenX For This Useful Post:
Okay play with the words how you will. You guys are missing the point. A dodge Ram same engine, 5 speed, 3.55 rear and running in ECO mode is not working as hard as an Automatic Challenger.
*edit*After reading RavenXs post I'm sure that I'm onto something now, thank you raven.
10 Ram = 1750 RPM at 70 w/ 3.55s
10 Challenger = 1950-2000 RPM at 70 w/ 3.06s. That 200-250 RPM can make a difference. EXTREME or not you can't ignore it.
This problem isn't happening with the Ram's so something is going right in its workings.
At the Spring Fest 4 event (March 2009), I happened to run into an engineer who helped design the Challenger and in discussing the pros and cons of what I liked and disliked about the car, the only thing negative I could say about the car was to explain that the 5-speed auto really needed an extra gear up top, i.e., a 6-speed auto. I further explained that I was running at 2,300 RPMs at 75 mph which seemed, to me at least, to be excessively high in our modern age. Running at a sustained 2,300-2,500 RPMs is a killer for these new modern engines. The 6-speed Challenger runs at about 1,800 RPM at about 75 mph with its sixth gear. Us automatic owners don't have the luxury of shifting into another gear after 5th, and therein lies the main different why the 6-speeds are not being affected by the timing chain failure. I have withheld what I thought was the cause, but I believe the high and sustained RPMs are complicated when MDS is engaged causing a vibration which sets an aging and stretched timing chain in motion to wobble out of control and thus break. These four factors, an aging chain (40,000+ miles), high and sustained RPMs with MDS engaged is what I believe will doom the engine. Up at highway speeds and left there for a while, I believe that an aging chain (which stretches over time) will begin to wobble and flex out of control and thus breaking and then taking out the tensioner as the broken timing chain whips around on its last revolution.
Now whether harmonics is what helps the timing chain begin its fatal wobble has yet to be determined, but what is certain, is that an aging timing chain left to sustained highway speed above 2,200 RPM will kill this engine within a few short hours of driving.
I have a early 2009 R/T 5.7 auto (built Jan. 2009). I currently have 66,000 miles on the car. When I first discovered these failures and created this thread I was uncertain as to the cause. Using a club member who only put highway miles on his car (often 4 hours at a time), I used him to get information. He suffered a timing chain failure and I began to think that maybe cruise control has something to do with it. After his engine was repaired he continued with his extensive highway driving but without cruise control. He suffered a second engine failure, so I ruled that out as a possible cause. Since my car hit 40,000 miles (the red zone), I have been driving in manual mode whenever I hit the freeway, and he has too. No failures yet.
I wouldn't expect everyone to agree with the above, but there is a way to test it out for yourself if you have a R/T auto. Hit the freeway in full auto mode, get your speed up to 70-75 mph and hold it there for a bit. Take note of the sound of the engine. Now, shift into manual mode (move the shifter to the right) and pay attention to the change in sound (frequency) and vibration of the engine. It is a lot less, a lot smoother and the vibration disappears.
I have absolutely no doubt that I can put my car in full auto mode (with 66,000 miles on the speedometer), hit the freeway, and head for Las Vegas a few hundred miles away and would not make it back without suffering a timing chain failure. My timing chain is aged, stretched, and ripe for failure if left to slap around with MDS engaged.
After all of the input I have received from people affected by this problem since I created this thread, this is the conclusion that I have come to based on all of the facts that are currently available. Of course, this is just my opinion. Only time will tell.
Caveat: If you chose to drive on the highway in manual mode, please be aware that the stopping distance of the car is greatly increased. You will not have the transmission to help you slow down during abrupt braking. Much like having a 6-speed, pushing in the clutch and slamming on the brakes. The transmission in manual mode cannot act fast enough to follow you down in gears for an abrupt stop. In fact, it will pretty much be no help at all. For simple hard or aggressive braking, like going into a turn, the transmission, in manual mode, will gear down with your braking, just not for abrupt stopping. You might want to test it out for yourself so that no surprises come your way.
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I agree.
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