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Timing chain failure on the Dodge Challenger

1M views 6K replies 443 participants last post by  Mopar Frank 
#1 · (Edited)
I have been finding many reports of the timing chain breaking on the Dodge Challenger, mostly in the 5.7L Hemi engines. The timing chain breaks in most reported instances around the 35K-40K mile range.

Once the timing chain breaks, the end result is usually the valves smacking the pistons which bend the valves, damages the pistons and leads to catastrophic engine failure. This often requires a new long block.

How many of you have had the timing chain break? How many miles on the car when when it happened? and what was your experience in getting it repaired?

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Known instances of the timing chain breaking on the 5.7L Dodge Challenger just in this forum alone in the past few months:

1. 06/27/2011 -- mileage not mentioned -- ... come to find out the timing chain broke ...

2. 07/19/2011 -- 85,000 miles -- ... and the timing chain broke...

3. 09/27/2011 -- 33,385 miles -- 2009 R/T Motor Broke

4. 11/23/2011 -- 38,000 miles -- Club member's car. Broken timing chain. Car in shop for over two months.

5. 12/07/2011 -- 34,000 miles -- I found this thread the hard way...

6. 12/19/2011 -- 22,600 miles -- 2010 Challenger - Timing Chain Breaks...

7. 01/21/2012 -- 60,000 miles -- Engine went..........

8. 02/02/2012 -- 38,000 miles -- 2009 Challenger R/T lost a second motor .. (Second occurrence. See #3 above. 4,000 miles on new motor).

9. 03/08/2012 -- 50,000 miles -- BLOWN ENGINE 50,000 miles

10. 03/23/2012 -- 14,000 miles -- ... my timing chain snapped

11. 04/04/2012 -- 53,500 miles -- My timing chain just broke today ...

12. 04/16/2012 -- 46,000 miles -- Mine is in the shop with a broken timing chain...

13. 04/27/2012 -- 31,000 miles -- My chain broke back in December of 2011 ...

14. 05/22/2012 -- 37,000 miles -- Here's another 2010 Auto R/T with a broken timing chain! ...

15. 06/13/2012 -- 40,257 miles -- I too have a broken timing chain ...

16. 06/23/2012 -- 38,485 miles -- Guess I can be added to the list ...

17. 06/26/2012 -- 38,500 miles -- Just happened last Saturday ...

18. 08/02/2012 -- 59,134 miles -- ... all of a sudden Bam the engine shuts down

19. 08/03/2012 -- 38,000 miles -- I had this happen at 38000 miles, 2010 R/T Auto

20. 08/08/2012 -- 27,000 miles -- The timing chain on my 2010 R/T just broke ...

21. 08/10/2012 -- 59,300 miles -- ... timing chain broke again. (Third occurrence. See #3 and #8 above. 16,000 miles on new motor).

22. 08/10/2012 -- 63,000 miles -- ... timing chain broke cruising at 70mph on the highway

23. 09/03/2012 -- 40,000 miles -- ... while driving to dallas my timing chain broke

24. 09/11/2012 -- 24,000 miles -- Welp - chalk up another one ... (first 2011 to be reported here)

25. 09/21/2012 -- 31,100 miles -- This just happened a few days ago ...

26. 10/10/2012 -- 42,559 miles -- Well it's looking like I'm the latest timing chain victim ...

27. 10/24/2012 -- 65,000 miles -- ... driving on the highway 65MPH and "Pop goes to weasel"

28. 11/18/2012 -- 40,000 miles -- Mine just broke...2010 mopar 10, no mods, auto ... (first to break not at highway speeds)

29. 11/19/2012 -- 39,000 miles -- just got another 2010 with 39000 in today ...

30. 12/04/2012 -- 40,000 miles -- The timing chain on my 2010 Auto RT broke last Friday ...

31. 12/09/2012 -- miles pending -- ... R/T not running at the moment timing chain broke ...

32. 12/11/2012 -- 27,000 miles -- ... cruising on the interstate at 70, MDS on, when suddenly loss of power ...

33. 01/03/2013 -- 58,000 miles -- ... the dealer has confirmed that I did have a timing chain failure.

34. 01/22/2013 -- 40,000 miles -- It has been confirmed I as well did have a broken timing chain

35. 01/22/2013 -- 43,000 miles -- 2010 R/T, 5-speed auto with mds. No mods at all.

36. 02/22/2013 -- 52,000 miles -- ... it happen to me this weekend ...

37. 04/15/2013 -- 55,000 miles -- I have now become victim to a failed timing chain

38. 04/20/2013 -- 73,000 miles -- cruising at 65 mph, in MSD, engine 'shut down'

39. 05/13/2013 -- 66,000 miles -- lost it on the interstate doing 73 in MDS

40. 05/20/2013 -- 56.616 miles -- ... on the freeway headed to work in the rain and Wham

41. 05/24/2013 -- 28,000 miles -- the chain went on the highway at 70+ mph

42. 06/07/2013 -- 88,256 miles -- ... driving down the highway heard a loud pop ...

43. 07/01/2013 -- 52,000 miles -- Timing chain broke on freeway ...

44. 07/23/2013 -- 54,057 miles -- Was in a canyon going uphill at about 55mph ... (claims MDS not engaged)

45. 07/26/2013 -- 49,000 miles -- Cruising along 65 mph engine stalled.

46. 08/10/2013 -- 22,281 miles -- I wish I found this topic sooner

47. 09/17/2013 -- 40,091 miles -- driving 74 mph in cruse control just died ...

48. 10/04/2013 -- 68,000 miles -- Add another one to the list OMG.

49. 10/22/2013 -- 89,000 miles -- Timing chain went on my 09 Challenger

50. 11/13/2013 -- 55,320 miles -- I had hoped I would never be posting this message ...

51. 11/13/2013 -- 42,342 miles -- Just got up to highway speed Bam Powerloss ...

52. 11/21/2013 -- 53,000 miles -- Add me to the list of failures ...

53. 11/27/2013 -- 73,000 miles -- I was cruising at highway speeds (70 mph), in MDS

54. Recall initiated, see below.

Remember, these reports are from this forum alone. Real world numbers are greatly increased.

The things in common when the timing chain breaks so far are:

1. MDS is activated (auto trans., so 6-speed are excluded)
2. Traveling at freeway speeds (or coming off of freeway)
3. 2009-2011 model years affected so far.
4. Limited to the 5.7L motor so far
5. Dodge Challenger only

Things ruled out thus far:

A. 6-speed manual transmissions not affected
B. Other 5.7L vehicles not affected, i.e., Charger, 300, Ram truck
C. New guide shoe (white color) has also failed (see #8 on list of failures)
D. New crate motor has also failed (see #3 and #8 on list of failures)
E. Both stock and mod cars affected
F. Both stock tune and Predator tune (with MDS turned on) affected
G. All oil change intervals affected, i.e., 3,000 miles, 5,000 miles, etc.
H. All types of oil affected, i.e., both synthetic and conventional oil

* Author's notes (last updated 10/28/13):

(1) When I created this thread, I was so taken back by a timing chain failure happening and discovering at least a half dozen similar occurrences, that I attempted to discover if anyone here had experienced a timing chain failure and what their dealership experience was. I got a lot of adverse feedback along the lines of "alarmist" and "chicken little" and other name calling, including some from dealerships and master mechanics, as can be seen in just the first few hundred posts below. Many attempted to derail this thread by taking it off-topic on many, many occasions. Some are still out there promoting denial of the issue. Still, the problem remains, it is real and it continues to plague fellow Challenger owners.

(2) The timing chain concern can be alleviated by disabling MDS (a band-aid solution not a fix). All but one recent report have shown that MDS was engaged and the car was traveling at freeway speeds. You can prevent MDS from being activated by switching into manual mode while driving on the freeway. You can read How to use the Autostick feature and manual mode here. You can also use a tuner to disable the MDS feature, but be forewarned, if the dealership discovers your use of a tuner on the car, you are in for a fight to get the repairs done under warranty.

(3) Chrysler is aware of the issue and has been monitoring this thread for some time regardless of they might tell you. In addition, many people have already telephoned customer service and have written to Chrysler directly. But, even without all of that, you don't have timing chains, tensioners, heads and short blocks rolling out of the warehouse in the numbers that they have without raising some internal red flags of a potential issue.

(4) Talks of running off to court and filing a lawsuit over this issue are misguided. Your warranty specifically states that you MUST first submit the matter to arbitration. Any lawsuit would be immediately dismissed, and now you are out the filing fees.

(5) When I first created this thread, the weekly parts demand for timing chains was at about 15. It is currently hovering around 35 at the moment.

(6) Chrysler has switched from the black tensioner and guide to white (supposedly stronger) and then to an aluminum tensioner and guide with a plastic face plate (the current part). Both black and white guides have failed. No reports of the aluminum failing yet but they are relatively new first showing up in mid-2013 R/T's.

(7) The exact cause of the timing chain failure is still unknown. In fact, it may never been known. There are just too many factors involved to isolate the problem, and if we haven't discovered the cause in over 350,000 page views, how can we expect Chrysler to? While there is a lot of speculation as to the exact cause, which seems to go round-and-round every few hundred posts, it is all just that -- speculation. What we do for for certain is that MDS is playing a part in the timing chain failures.

(8) Special shout outs to Desert Bum, Hal H, hmk123, Force10, 19johned53, and the nameless many who have helped to keep this issue real and on topic. Your comments are appreciated.

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* Author's notes (last updated 02/12/14):

Customer Satisfaction Notification P01
Engine Timing Chain and Chain Guide
Models
IMPORTANT: Some of the involved vehicles may be in dealer used vehicle inventory. Dealers should complete this repair on these vehicles before retail delivery. Dealers should also perform this repair on vehicles in for service. Involved vehicles can be determined by using the VIP inquiry process.
Subject
Repair
2009-2012 (LC) Dodge Challenger
(LD) Dodge Charger
(LX) Chrysler 300
NOTE: This recall applies only to the above vehicles equipped with a 5.7L Hemi engine (sales code EZD or EZH), automatic transmission (sales code DGJ) and rear axle ratio 3.06, 3.73 or 3.92 (sales code DMP, DME or DMH) built from August 04, 2008 through July 10, 2012 (MDH 080406 through 071008).
The engine timing chain guide on about 50,800 of the above vehicles may fracture. A fractured engine timing chain guide could cause the engine timing chain to break. A broken engine timing chain will result in severe engine damage.
The engine timing chain, timing chain tensioner and timing chain guide must be replaced.
Customer Satisfaction Notification P01 Engine Timing Chain and Chain Guide Page 2
Part Number Description
CBPRN291AA Engine Timing Chain Package
Each package contains the following components:
Quantity Description
1 Chain, Engine Timing
1 Guide, Engine Timing Chain
1 Tensioner, Engine Timing Chain
1 O-ring, Oil Pick-up Tube
1 Gasket, Engine Timing Cover
NOTE: Order two heater tube O-rings separately listed below for each repair.
Part Number Description
53013736AA O-ring, Heater Tube (order two per vehicle)
Each dealer
to whom vehicles in the recall were assigned will receive enough Engine Timing Chain Packages to service about 5% of those vehicles.

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Recall type:

Customer Satisfaction Notification - Customer Satisfaction Notifications are preventive in nature and involve warranty or customer satisfaction issues such as non-safety repairs. Chrysler will correct the problem, at no charge, even if the vehicle is out of warranty and you are not the original owner.

You can check if your vehicle is subject to the timing chain issue recall (or any other recall) by visiting the Chrysler website and entering your vehicle's VIN number. Visit: http://www.chrysler.com/en/mobile/webselfservice/

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We really want to thank everyone who wrote us, (Pietro), with their timing chain concerns. The engineering team has completed their work and the following statement has been released. If there are any questions, reach out to us on this forum as opposed to sending an email as that will be quicker.

Chrysler Group is launching a customer-service action to bolster timing-chain system durability in certain cars equipped with 5.7-liter HEMI® V-8 engines.

The decision follows an extensive investigation to determine the precise issue and appropriate remedy.
The investigation discovered the engine’s fuel-saving cylinder-deactivation technology may cause an adverse interaction with the timing-chain system. (Chrysler Group is unaware of any related injuries or accidents.) As a result, the Company will replace – at no cost to customers – the timing chains, tensioners and guides in certain vehicles built between Aug. 4, 2008 and July 10, 2012.

Affected are certain model-year 2009-2012 Dodge Charger and Chrysler 300 full-size sedans, and Dodge Challenger sport coupes. The scope is limited to vehicles equipped with 5-speed automatic transmissions and axle ratios of 3.06, 3.73 or 3.92.

Beginning this month, Chrysler Group will contact affected customers with instructions to schedule service appointments with their dealers.

Chrysler Group greatly appreciates the patience demonstrated by its customers while this issue was under investigation. The Company also values and shares the passion expressed on these pages by customers and fans alike.

Thanks,

DodgeCares
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Article: Timing Chain Failure on the Dodge Challenger – Ground Zero

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#1,950 · (Edited)
LOL This is what I was afraid of. Materials used aren't correct for the application. Looks like they replaced the guide with what looks like nylon, which might hold up a it better than that black material, which probably wasn't nylon.

What would have been a better design there would have been another roller sprocket. Oh well, poor design. Hopefully they re-engineer this set-up.
 
#1,934 ·
Sounds like that the tensioner breaks at highway speed, thus the chain has excess slack, thus it breaks at the highway speed before you hear that decell sounds that your friend heard when it was NOT running at highway speed. I'm betting on plastic being the ultimate culprit here.

Dino
 
#1,939 ·
My car went 20k between the solenoid and TC failures. I wonder if all cars with a TC failure also had the solenoid fail prior??
 
#1,944 ·
Also, when they repair a broken chain, will they usually check for the solenoid? Could it be that Hemi09Challenger's solenoid was never changed and that's why he had more than one broken engine?
 
#1,952 ·
This is GOOD INFO !!! Okay, I'm in an 09 R/T with 23,240 miles. What would y'all suggest? Go to Dodge dealer and have them check it? I HAVE the LIFETIME warranty. I just bought a Diablo but haven't even hooked it up yet. ( I just "hate" leaving the car at the dealership). Why the heck don't they have a chain set-up like the days of old? Man, a double-roller would outlast anything and that "noise" issue was BS!
 
#1,955 ·
The chain itself appeared to be in serviceable shape. Stretching it out and holding it sideways, it sagged a little morre than the new chain, but looked OK, but who knows for sure.

With the gudieshoe missing the tensioner can take up the majority of the slack, but has enough play to where you can esily move it with your fingers.

When everything is in place, guideshoe, tensioner, etc... the chain is really tight with no play whatsoever. With all the cam/crank positioning required for the VVT it would have to be, any slack would give erratic signals.

Several cars have kicked a P0016 code crank/cam positioning error, which is a VVT failure, and have had the solenoid replaced and for the most part resolved the issue. The error code has nothing to do with MDS function, but somehow I get the feeling the two systems are related more than we think.
 
#1,959 ·
Don't see how. 6 speed cars would be involved as well.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using AutoGuide.Com Free App
 
#1,962 · (Edited)
It seems there is a total slam-dunk thing that Chrysler could have done right away...that is, to introduce a revised part for that right-side chain tensioner shoe. It gets thin right at that point along its length, and that is the point that snaps through after some wear. If only that could just be beefed up so if heavy wear shows up, it can wear into the shoe over the whole length at similar depth, and that part is not going to snap in 2, because there is plenty of beef behind it along the whole part.

Naturally, that doesn't solve the issue of why it is wearing prematurely, but if you don't know, make it stronger in the meantime, right? Such a part could also be engineered to make a lot of recognizable noise if it is wearing deep (almost like brake squealers). This is something Dodge should have done at Day 1 of discovering there is an issue.
 
#1,967 ·
Incorrect oil? bad tensioner? bad tune?


Sent from my iPhone using Autoguide.com App
 
#1,968 · (Edited)
What mileage where these 6.1's?

That's not what I originally wanted to post about, but maybe there is a relation...that these tensioner shoes must have some sort of service life (granted, the difference between abnormal wear and normal wear appears to be quite dramatic and unpredictable). So is there even point where the manufacturer specifies to change them?...almost like with the importance of changing a timing belt, if one was involved? Surely they can't be "infinite wear" components, right?...and when they go, the whole engine is hanging by a thread, so I gather they are pretty important to replace after x amount of wear.
 
#1,970 ·
What mileage where these 6.1's?
That's not what I originally wanted to post about, but maybe there is a relation...that these tensioner shoes must have some sort of service life (granted, the difference between abnormal wear and normal wear appears to be quite dramatic and unpredictable). So is there even point where the manufacturer specifies to change them?...almost like with the importance of changing a timing belt, if one was involved? Surely they can't be "infinite wear" components, right?...and when they go, the whole engine is hanging by a thread, so I gather they are pretty important to replace after x amount of wear.
I imagine the engine will throw a code before the shoes wore down enough to be a problem. The resulting inspection would lead to replacement of the shoes.

Randy, the idea I see as being the best is yours that "builds" in an audible warning similar to that generated when brake shoes are about to wear out. That should be installed on "all" engines of all brands as this vvt technology and the use of plastic in the engines is now becoming normal practice.
 
#1,971 · (Edited)
She's now at 400 miles and still running great!!! No signs of oil usage, funky noises or anything else!! I found a Predator locally I'm working on getting so bye bye MDS and maybe add a mild tune.....
 
#1,981 ·
So, the manuals don't have MDS, so what is different about the way the timing chain runs against the guides in MDS vs NON MDS? Is there any non axial movemnt (side to side) involved when it goes in and out of MDS? You figure the manuals would be having this problem as well... but they aren't, at least not in moderate mileage cars.
So, I just want to figure out what is different parts wise and the way autos are different than the manuals. I figure that the manuals have the same solenoid, correct?
 
#1,982 ·
People belive there is a harmonic imbalance when mds engages. You have to think even the slightest minor abnormality can cause unnecessary wear that can lead to premature part failures.

Sent from my HTC Rezound with the AutoGuide App.
 
#1,992 ·
Yes. mine for one.. Only about 2 months old, but it has NEVER seen ECO (MDS).

I use the Auto Stick 100% of the time.
I bought a V8 because I want V8 power all the time.
None of this 4 cylinder crap for me> EVER!!!!!!!!
 
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#2,004 ·
I would bet, you could possibly see the TC/shoe issue in a log file before it pops.
It would swing timing, being unstable and show in the pid data.
Be interesting for someone to putt putt around while doing a log with mentioned broke tensioner and slack in the chain.
It may be measured, when the motor is apart with a degree wheel. See how many deg back and forth. Simulating in and out throttle, then it should match the pid log file in deg of timing.
Now we would have a base line for worn to broke tensioner. In Theory anyway.
Course as mentioned if bad enough should throw a codecrank or cam sensor.
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