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Timing chain failure on the Dodge Challenger

1M views 6K replies 443 participants last post by  Mopar Frank 
#1 · (Edited)
I have been finding many reports of the timing chain breaking on the Dodge Challenger, mostly in the 5.7L Hemi engines. The timing chain breaks in most reported instances around the 35K-40K mile range.

Once the timing chain breaks, the end result is usually the valves smacking the pistons which bend the valves, damages the pistons and leads to catastrophic engine failure. This often requires a new long block.

How many of you have had the timing chain break? How many miles on the car when when it happened? and what was your experience in getting it repaired?

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Known instances of the timing chain breaking on the 5.7L Dodge Challenger just in this forum alone in the past few months:

1. 06/27/2011 -- mileage not mentioned -- ... come to find out the timing chain broke ...

2. 07/19/2011 -- 85,000 miles -- ... and the timing chain broke...

3. 09/27/2011 -- 33,385 miles -- 2009 R/T Motor Broke

4. 11/23/2011 -- 38,000 miles -- Club member's car. Broken timing chain. Car in shop for over two months.

5. 12/07/2011 -- 34,000 miles -- I found this thread the hard way...

6. 12/19/2011 -- 22,600 miles -- 2010 Challenger - Timing Chain Breaks...

7. 01/21/2012 -- 60,000 miles -- Engine went..........

8. 02/02/2012 -- 38,000 miles -- 2009 Challenger R/T lost a second motor .. (Second occurrence. See #3 above. 4,000 miles on new motor).

9. 03/08/2012 -- 50,000 miles -- BLOWN ENGINE 50,000 miles

10. 03/23/2012 -- 14,000 miles -- ... my timing chain snapped

11. 04/04/2012 -- 53,500 miles -- My timing chain just broke today ...

12. 04/16/2012 -- 46,000 miles -- Mine is in the shop with a broken timing chain...

13. 04/27/2012 -- 31,000 miles -- My chain broke back in December of 2011 ...

14. 05/22/2012 -- 37,000 miles -- Here's another 2010 Auto R/T with a broken timing chain! ...

15. 06/13/2012 -- 40,257 miles -- I too have a broken timing chain ...

16. 06/23/2012 -- 38,485 miles -- Guess I can be added to the list ...

17. 06/26/2012 -- 38,500 miles -- Just happened last Saturday ...

18. 08/02/2012 -- 59,134 miles -- ... all of a sudden Bam the engine shuts down

19. 08/03/2012 -- 38,000 miles -- I had this happen at 38000 miles, 2010 R/T Auto

20. 08/08/2012 -- 27,000 miles -- The timing chain on my 2010 R/T just broke ...

21. 08/10/2012 -- 59,300 miles -- ... timing chain broke again. (Third occurrence. See #3 and #8 above. 16,000 miles on new motor).

22. 08/10/2012 -- 63,000 miles -- ... timing chain broke cruising at 70mph on the highway

23. 09/03/2012 -- 40,000 miles -- ... while driving to dallas my timing chain broke

24. 09/11/2012 -- 24,000 miles -- Welp - chalk up another one ... (first 2011 to be reported here)

25. 09/21/2012 -- 31,100 miles -- This just happened a few days ago ...

26. 10/10/2012 -- 42,559 miles -- Well it's looking like I'm the latest timing chain victim ...

27. 10/24/2012 -- 65,000 miles -- ... driving on the highway 65MPH and "Pop goes to weasel"

28. 11/18/2012 -- 40,000 miles -- Mine just broke...2010 mopar 10, no mods, auto ... (first to break not at highway speeds)

29. 11/19/2012 -- 39,000 miles -- just got another 2010 with 39000 in today ...

30. 12/04/2012 -- 40,000 miles -- The timing chain on my 2010 Auto RT broke last Friday ...

31. 12/09/2012 -- miles pending -- ... R/T not running at the moment timing chain broke ...

32. 12/11/2012 -- 27,000 miles -- ... cruising on the interstate at 70, MDS on, when suddenly loss of power ...

33. 01/03/2013 -- 58,000 miles -- ... the dealer has confirmed that I did have a timing chain failure.

34. 01/22/2013 -- 40,000 miles -- It has been confirmed I as well did have a broken timing chain

35. 01/22/2013 -- 43,000 miles -- 2010 R/T, 5-speed auto with mds. No mods at all.

36. 02/22/2013 -- 52,000 miles -- ... it happen to me this weekend ...

37. 04/15/2013 -- 55,000 miles -- I have now become victim to a failed timing chain

38. 04/20/2013 -- 73,000 miles -- cruising at 65 mph, in MSD, engine 'shut down'

39. 05/13/2013 -- 66,000 miles -- lost it on the interstate doing 73 in MDS

40. 05/20/2013 -- 56.616 miles -- ... on the freeway headed to work in the rain and Wham

41. 05/24/2013 -- 28,000 miles -- the chain went on the highway at 70+ mph

42. 06/07/2013 -- 88,256 miles -- ... driving down the highway heard a loud pop ...

43. 07/01/2013 -- 52,000 miles -- Timing chain broke on freeway ...

44. 07/23/2013 -- 54,057 miles -- Was in a canyon going uphill at about 55mph ... (claims MDS not engaged)

45. 07/26/2013 -- 49,000 miles -- Cruising along 65 mph engine stalled.

46. 08/10/2013 -- 22,281 miles -- I wish I found this topic sooner

47. 09/17/2013 -- 40,091 miles -- driving 74 mph in cruse control just died ...

48. 10/04/2013 -- 68,000 miles -- Add another one to the list OMG.

49. 10/22/2013 -- 89,000 miles -- Timing chain went on my 09 Challenger

50. 11/13/2013 -- 55,320 miles -- I had hoped I would never be posting this message ...

51. 11/13/2013 -- 42,342 miles -- Just got up to highway speed Bam Powerloss ...

52. 11/21/2013 -- 53,000 miles -- Add me to the list of failures ...

53. 11/27/2013 -- 73,000 miles -- I was cruising at highway speeds (70 mph), in MDS

54. Recall initiated, see below.

Remember, these reports are from this forum alone. Real world numbers are greatly increased.

The things in common when the timing chain breaks so far are:

1. MDS is activated (auto trans., so 6-speed are excluded)
2. Traveling at freeway speeds (or coming off of freeway)
3. 2009-2011 model years affected so far.
4. Limited to the 5.7L motor so far
5. Dodge Challenger only

Things ruled out thus far:

A. 6-speed manual transmissions not affected
B. Other 5.7L vehicles not affected, i.e., Charger, 300, Ram truck
C. New guide shoe (white color) has also failed (see #8 on list of failures)
D. New crate motor has also failed (see #3 and #8 on list of failures)
E. Both stock and mod cars affected
F. Both stock tune and Predator tune (with MDS turned on) affected
G. All oil change intervals affected, i.e., 3,000 miles, 5,000 miles, etc.
H. All types of oil affected, i.e., both synthetic and conventional oil

* Author's notes (last updated 10/28/13):

(1) When I created this thread, I was so taken back by a timing chain failure happening and discovering at least a half dozen similar occurrences, that I attempted to discover if anyone here had experienced a timing chain failure and what their dealership experience was. I got a lot of adverse feedback along the lines of "alarmist" and "chicken little" and other name calling, including some from dealerships and master mechanics, as can be seen in just the first few hundred posts below. Many attempted to derail this thread by taking it off-topic on many, many occasions. Some are still out there promoting denial of the issue. Still, the problem remains, it is real and it continues to plague fellow Challenger owners.

(2) The timing chain concern can be alleviated by disabling MDS (a band-aid solution not a fix). All but one recent report have shown that MDS was engaged and the car was traveling at freeway speeds. You can prevent MDS from being activated by switching into manual mode while driving on the freeway. You can read How to use the Autostick feature and manual mode here. You can also use a tuner to disable the MDS feature, but be forewarned, if the dealership discovers your use of a tuner on the car, you are in for a fight to get the repairs done under warranty.

(3) Chrysler is aware of the issue and has been monitoring this thread for some time regardless of they might tell you. In addition, many people have already telephoned customer service and have written to Chrysler directly. But, even without all of that, you don't have timing chains, tensioners, heads and short blocks rolling out of the warehouse in the numbers that they have without raising some internal red flags of a potential issue.

(4) Talks of running off to court and filing a lawsuit over this issue are misguided. Your warranty specifically states that you MUST first submit the matter to arbitration. Any lawsuit would be immediately dismissed, and now you are out the filing fees.

(5) When I first created this thread, the weekly parts demand for timing chains was at about 15. It is currently hovering around 35 at the moment.

(6) Chrysler has switched from the black tensioner and guide to white (supposedly stronger) and then to an aluminum tensioner and guide with a plastic face plate (the current part). Both black and white guides have failed. No reports of the aluminum failing yet but they are relatively new first showing up in mid-2013 R/T's.

(7) The exact cause of the timing chain failure is still unknown. In fact, it may never been known. There are just too many factors involved to isolate the problem, and if we haven't discovered the cause in over 350,000 page views, how can we expect Chrysler to? While there is a lot of speculation as to the exact cause, which seems to go round-and-round every few hundred posts, it is all just that -- speculation. What we do for for certain is that MDS is playing a part in the timing chain failures.

(8) Special shout outs to Desert Bum, Hal H, hmk123, Force10, 19johned53, and the nameless many who have helped to keep this issue real and on topic. Your comments are appreciated.

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* Author's notes (last updated 02/12/14):

Customer Satisfaction Notification P01
Engine Timing Chain and Chain Guide
Models
IMPORTANT: Some of the involved vehicles may be in dealer used vehicle inventory. Dealers should complete this repair on these vehicles before retail delivery. Dealers should also perform this repair on vehicles in for service. Involved vehicles can be determined by using the VIP inquiry process.
Subject
Repair
2009-2012 (LC) Dodge Challenger
(LD) Dodge Charger
(LX) Chrysler 300
NOTE: This recall applies only to the above vehicles equipped with a 5.7L Hemi engine (sales code EZD or EZH), automatic transmission (sales code DGJ) and rear axle ratio 3.06, 3.73 or 3.92 (sales code DMP, DME or DMH) built from August 04, 2008 through July 10, 2012 (MDH 080406 through 071008).
The engine timing chain guide on about 50,800 of the above vehicles may fracture. A fractured engine timing chain guide could cause the engine timing chain to break. A broken engine timing chain will result in severe engine damage.
The engine timing chain, timing chain tensioner and timing chain guide must be replaced.
Customer Satisfaction Notification P01 Engine Timing Chain and Chain Guide Page 2
Part Number Description
CBPRN291AA Engine Timing Chain Package
Each package contains the following components:
Quantity Description
1 Chain, Engine Timing
1 Guide, Engine Timing Chain
1 Tensioner, Engine Timing Chain
1 O-ring, Oil Pick-up Tube
1 Gasket, Engine Timing Cover
NOTE: Order two heater tube O-rings separately listed below for each repair.
Part Number Description
53013736AA O-ring, Heater Tube (order two per vehicle)
Each dealer
to whom vehicles in the recall were assigned will receive enough Engine Timing Chain Packages to service about 5% of those vehicles.

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Recall type:

Customer Satisfaction Notification - Customer Satisfaction Notifications are preventive in nature and involve warranty or customer satisfaction issues such as non-safety repairs. Chrysler will correct the problem, at no charge, even if the vehicle is out of warranty and you are not the original owner.

You can check if your vehicle is subject to the timing chain issue recall (or any other recall) by visiting the Chrysler website and entering your vehicle's VIN number. Visit: http://www.chrysler.com/en/mobile/webselfservice/

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We really want to thank everyone who wrote us, (Pietro), with their timing chain concerns. The engineering team has completed their work and the following statement has been released. If there are any questions, reach out to us on this forum as opposed to sending an email as that will be quicker.

Chrysler Group is launching a customer-service action to bolster timing-chain system durability in certain cars equipped with 5.7-liter HEMI® V-8 engines.

The decision follows an extensive investigation to determine the precise issue and appropriate remedy.
The investigation discovered the engine’s fuel-saving cylinder-deactivation technology may cause an adverse interaction with the timing-chain system. (Chrysler Group is unaware of any related injuries or accidents.) As a result, the Company will replace – at no cost to customers – the timing chains, tensioners and guides in certain vehicles built between Aug. 4, 2008 and July 10, 2012.

Affected are certain model-year 2009-2012 Dodge Charger and Chrysler 300 full-size sedans, and Dodge Challenger sport coupes. The scope is limited to vehicles equipped with 5-speed automatic transmissions and axle ratios of 3.06, 3.73 or 3.92.

Beginning this month, Chrysler Group will contact affected customers with instructions to schedule service appointments with their dealers.

Chrysler Group greatly appreciates the patience demonstrated by its customers while this issue was under investigation. The Company also values and shares the passion expressed on these pages by customers and fans alike.

Thanks,

DodgeCares
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Article: Timing Chain Failure on the Dodge Challenger – Ground Zero

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#2,239 ·
y'all can do all the speculation you want, it will not help, after hundreds of posts they know the problem and don't care. start to put the pressure on dodge on all forums sites anywhere you can. we can post till 2020, it won't help until they feel that this will hurt possible sales. put them on notice, starting tomorrow. i plan to with the two dodge dealers that i deal with.
 
#2,243 ·
We can discuss the strategies to deal with the aftermath of a failure or to avoid one, or argue among ourselves about what to do all we want, but I think that CruzKing is right: this has gone long enough. At this point we shouldn't be speculating anymore. I just emailed Dodge and got the canned corporate response (albeit immediate and polite): they don't recognize this thread and recommend seeing a dealer if the car ever has a problem. I went ahead and bought an auto R/T in spite of the very depressing accounts and already long list of casualties (I'll drive in AutoStick exclusively until a 2013 is released or we get answers)... and I'm no troublemaker but I think we have to rock the boat in the face of such inertia.
 
#2,244 ·
We can discuss the strategies to deal with the aftermath of a failure or to avoid one, or argue among ourselves about what to do all we want, but I think we have to rock the boat in the face of such inertia.

Until safety (deaths) come into play due to this, nothing is going to happen.
Warranties will run out & the cost to Dodge is done.

With the small % of failures based on total cars sold its a miniscule problem.
We all have to realize this, dollars & the amount of actual failures will determine mfgr action if any.

So with the cost to rectify this, again based on the small % of TC failures, Dodge is just going to deal with the failures that are under warranty & just not worry about it..
 
#2,263 ·
And since you won't use Autostick, aren't you concerned about this?
 
#2,261 ·
#2,266 ·
I really have nothing of real value to add except when I test drove a new 2012 Auto R/T it seemed to stay in MDS mode most of the time and the salesdude was very proud of the fact. I asked what he knew about the timing chain issue figuring he would say he'd never heard of it, he surprised me by saying "they've been working on that and I expect the new designs will be integrated seamlessly with current production and repairs will be made to older units as needed." he also added if it were he, he'd buy a 2013 that has the latest technology and possibly some changes vs buying a 2012 new off the lot.

I was waiting to order a specific color in February 13, now after reading this thread I'm wondering if that's smart given the fact I might put 3000 miles a year on the new car since it's not my daily driver and I plan to keep it for a long time.. and I drive like a grandma so the MDS will be working hard..
 
#2,275 ·
I really have nothing of real value to add except when I test drove a new 2012 Auto R/T it seemed to stay in MDS mode most of the time and the salesdude was very proud of the fact. I asked what he knew about the timing chain issue figuring he would say he'd never heard of it, he surprised me by saying "they've been working on that and I expect the new designs will be integrated seamlessly with current production and repairs will be made to older units as needed." he also added if it were he, he'd buy a 2013 that has the latest technology and possibly some changes vs buying a 2012 new off the lot.

I was waiting to order a specific color in February 13, now after reading this thread I'm wondering if that's smart given the fact I might put 3000 miles a year on the new car since it's not my daily driver and I plan to keep it for a long time.. and I drive like a grandma so the MDS will be working hard..
I think if you drive like a Grandma you might be safe with whatever you get, it seems high speed cruising, between 70 and 80 for long periods might just be the culprit here. And I also think the fact that you said the new cars are in MDS most of the time is interesting too? That's what I keep saying is different about mine since it was worked on. Maybe Dodge thinks it's better to have MDS on more, not off more?
 
#2,270 · (Edited)
No offense to people like Brampton Builder or ResumeSpeed, but we need somebody like DodgeCares with corporate access on this forum (see ChargerForums and DodgeForum). Over a year and 230 pages of speculation (even parsed with interesting facts and ideas) and we're still in the dark, surprised when someone heard about the issue and pondering whether to buy an automatic, or a Challenger period. I brought the timing chain up to my salesman during last month's test drive too and he had no idea what I was talking about; 20 year-old kid, though, and you really can't trust that they'll tell the truth anyway.

I did buy mine in auto, only drive it in AutoStick for now, and plan to disable the MDS... but unbelievably we still don't know for sure whether that's even the solution. Beyond frustrating but we shouldn't be at each other's throats, questioning our individual car choices or MDS use: the ball is in Dodge's court.
 
#2,272 ·
My car was at exactly 30,000 mi, today! :D
 
#2,277 ·
According to that info about the newer cars being in MDS more often, could the people who have disabled MDS be causing more damage then they thought?


Sent from my iPhone using AutoGuide.com App
I can't see how driving in V8 all the time could do any harm.
 
#2,284 ·
I can't either but I just don't understand why a few owners who have had failures get the cars back and say it seems MDS is activated more often.


Sent from my iPhone using AutoGuide.com App
Probably, because, as has-been discussed, when performing the repairs the battery is disconnected which resets the car's algorithm that adapts timing and shifting to "match" driving habits.
 
#2,280 ·
I offer no solutions here just an update, I now have 56k miles on my car. It's been 10k since the TC broke and they repaired it. I gotta say I was on pins and needles for a while after I got it back. Any noise or difference in feel/ride and I would tense up and check my exit strategy.

I drive the same route at the same speeds as before with the exception that I use auto-stick on the highway. My one way trip from home to office is 260 miles(over 225 is highway). I make that trip 1 to 3 times a month, it depends on my work travel schedule.

Before, when I was traveling the Highway I would ride 78 mph @2500 rpm with the cruise on. There was definitely something going on, it was subtle but I could tell that something was happening. It didn't happen at other rates but I liked riding at 78mph. Was it the steady 2500rpm? I have no idea.

Just thought I'd check in is all.
 
#2,282 ·
Since Fupduk2 mentioned it: I am curious how many of those that had a TC failure were using the cruise control frequently.

Dodgeballz, from his earlier posts it seems like he has a 2010.
 
#2,285 ·
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there's a build difference between the Hemi they put in a manual and the one in an auto. I believe that the MDS solenoids might be missing from the manual and that's about it. The manuals don't break and this is what points to the MDS being the culprit, but beyond that we have speculated much, but know nothing for a fact.

It appears that cruising at around 70 with the cruise control on is when most failures took place, but this could be pushing things to a breaking point, not proof that it's when most or even all damage is done. And Dodge is not going to kill the MDS, they're going to tweak it, but this doesn't mean that it's the best fix. It's there to stay: they have to save face and keep meeting their mileage requirements. More 4 cylinder mode time is probably better in that perspective...

Now we're talking about more MDS use being 'better' and I think it's reaching. What we had been talking about a while back is transitions in and out of MDS feeling wrong because of the amount of vibration during those particular times. It's possible that at steady (cruise on) highway speeds, the MDS comes on and off depending on load and hits a not so sweet spot of vibration level. More speculation here, but what I'm really getting at is that we don't know what Dodge is doing (if they are doing anything) and we don't know the actual cause for the failures. More MDS seems counter-intuitive to me, though. Eventually they'll probably tweak the programming and reinforce the chain/tensioner.

If we're still in the dark in 2 years :)mah:), I should have put 40,000 miles on my car and kept it in constant V8 mode (AutoStick and tune), and should therefore be able to report on my motor's health then. Who wants to bet it'll be fine? ;) But I really, really hope that Dodge is monitoring the situation and working on a fix, though, because what happened to some cars and the uncertainty we (those not in denial) feel just ain't right.
 
#2,286 ·
Is it possible that at ~2500 RPM the Forcing Frequency of the rotating crankshaft, in the motor, is identical to the Natural Frequency of the Timing Chain?

This causes a resonant condition in the chain and the chain self destructs the same way that the Tacoma Narrows Bridge in Washington State did in the 1970's.
 
#2,337 ·
Is it possible that at ~2500 RPM the Forcing Frequency of the rotating crankshaft, in the motor, is identical to the Natural Frequency of the Timing Chain?

This causes a resonant condition in the chain and the chain self destructs the same way that the Tacoma Narrows Bridge in Washington State did in the 1970's.
. . . Actually, 1940. :)
 
#2,287 ·
We all feel vibration, especially during on/off but also when the MDS is steady on, and some more than others. My '07 Charger was way more obnoxious than my '12 Challenger, for example. Some of the vibration may be just because the motor isn't balanced as well on 4 cylinders. Combine that with the fact that the failures seem to take place at a steady and prolonged pace (highway), i.e. when a resonant condition would be given enough time to be destructive (like the bridge situation), and bear in mind that other Chrysler models with the same engines have different gearing so they run at different rpm for a given speed... and you have your theory, along with a reason why only Challengers are affected.
We know very little for a fact, though, outside of how many cars have failed and under which conditions.
 
#2,288 ·
USRWDV8
I'm wondering if since I noticed the MDS was on a great deal of time relative to what some of the earlier models and similar to the "repaired" engines, could it be as simple as at 70mph the wind, load resistance is right at the point where it wants to cycle on and off and it happens so quickly that a backlash from slack on and off snaps the chain ... and making MDS stay on more might very simply like electronically putting a stiffer spring in it to hold it on to eliminate such quick cycling that might cause a chain to snap.. is that sort of where you were going?
 
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