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Timing chain failure on the Dodge Challenger

1M views 6K replies 443 participants last post by  Mopar Frank 
#1 · (Edited)
I have been finding many reports of the timing chain breaking on the Dodge Challenger, mostly in the 5.7L Hemi engines. The timing chain breaks in most reported instances around the 35K-40K mile range.

Once the timing chain breaks, the end result is usually the valves smacking the pistons which bend the valves, damages the pistons and leads to catastrophic engine failure. This often requires a new long block.

How many of you have had the timing chain break? How many miles on the car when when it happened? and what was your experience in getting it repaired?

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Known instances of the timing chain breaking on the 5.7L Dodge Challenger just in this forum alone in the past few months:

1. 06/27/2011 -- mileage not mentioned -- ... come to find out the timing chain broke ...

2. 07/19/2011 -- 85,000 miles -- ... and the timing chain broke...

3. 09/27/2011 -- 33,385 miles -- 2009 R/T Motor Broke

4. 11/23/2011 -- 38,000 miles -- Club member's car. Broken timing chain. Car in shop for over two months.

5. 12/07/2011 -- 34,000 miles -- I found this thread the hard way...

6. 12/19/2011 -- 22,600 miles -- 2010 Challenger - Timing Chain Breaks...

7. 01/21/2012 -- 60,000 miles -- Engine went..........

8. 02/02/2012 -- 38,000 miles -- 2009 Challenger R/T lost a second motor .. (Second occurrence. See #3 above. 4,000 miles on new motor).

9. 03/08/2012 -- 50,000 miles -- BLOWN ENGINE 50,000 miles

10. 03/23/2012 -- 14,000 miles -- ... my timing chain snapped

11. 04/04/2012 -- 53,500 miles -- My timing chain just broke today ...

12. 04/16/2012 -- 46,000 miles -- Mine is in the shop with a broken timing chain...

13. 04/27/2012 -- 31,000 miles -- My chain broke back in December of 2011 ...

14. 05/22/2012 -- 37,000 miles -- Here's another 2010 Auto R/T with a broken timing chain! ...

15. 06/13/2012 -- 40,257 miles -- I too have a broken timing chain ...

16. 06/23/2012 -- 38,485 miles -- Guess I can be added to the list ...

17. 06/26/2012 -- 38,500 miles -- Just happened last Saturday ...

18. 08/02/2012 -- 59,134 miles -- ... all of a sudden Bam the engine shuts down

19. 08/03/2012 -- 38,000 miles -- I had this happen at 38000 miles, 2010 R/T Auto

20. 08/08/2012 -- 27,000 miles -- The timing chain on my 2010 R/T just broke ...

21. 08/10/2012 -- 59,300 miles -- ... timing chain broke again. (Third occurrence. See #3 and #8 above. 16,000 miles on new motor).

22. 08/10/2012 -- 63,000 miles -- ... timing chain broke cruising at 70mph on the highway

23. 09/03/2012 -- 40,000 miles -- ... while driving to dallas my timing chain broke

24. 09/11/2012 -- 24,000 miles -- Welp - chalk up another one ... (first 2011 to be reported here)

25. 09/21/2012 -- 31,100 miles -- This just happened a few days ago ...

26. 10/10/2012 -- 42,559 miles -- Well it's looking like I'm the latest timing chain victim ...

27. 10/24/2012 -- 65,000 miles -- ... driving on the highway 65MPH and "Pop goes to weasel"

28. 11/18/2012 -- 40,000 miles -- Mine just broke...2010 mopar 10, no mods, auto ... (first to break not at highway speeds)

29. 11/19/2012 -- 39,000 miles -- just got another 2010 with 39000 in today ...

30. 12/04/2012 -- 40,000 miles -- The timing chain on my 2010 Auto RT broke last Friday ...

31. 12/09/2012 -- miles pending -- ... R/T not running at the moment timing chain broke ...

32. 12/11/2012 -- 27,000 miles -- ... cruising on the interstate at 70, MDS on, when suddenly loss of power ...

33. 01/03/2013 -- 58,000 miles -- ... the dealer has confirmed that I did have a timing chain failure.

34. 01/22/2013 -- 40,000 miles -- It has been confirmed I as well did have a broken timing chain

35. 01/22/2013 -- 43,000 miles -- 2010 R/T, 5-speed auto with mds. No mods at all.

36. 02/22/2013 -- 52,000 miles -- ... it happen to me this weekend ...

37. 04/15/2013 -- 55,000 miles -- I have now become victim to a failed timing chain

38. 04/20/2013 -- 73,000 miles -- cruising at 65 mph, in MSD, engine 'shut down'

39. 05/13/2013 -- 66,000 miles -- lost it on the interstate doing 73 in MDS

40. 05/20/2013 -- 56.616 miles -- ... on the freeway headed to work in the rain and Wham

41. 05/24/2013 -- 28,000 miles -- the chain went on the highway at 70+ mph

42. 06/07/2013 -- 88,256 miles -- ... driving down the highway heard a loud pop ...

43. 07/01/2013 -- 52,000 miles -- Timing chain broke on freeway ...

44. 07/23/2013 -- 54,057 miles -- Was in a canyon going uphill at about 55mph ... (claims MDS not engaged)

45. 07/26/2013 -- 49,000 miles -- Cruising along 65 mph engine stalled.

46. 08/10/2013 -- 22,281 miles -- I wish I found this topic sooner

47. 09/17/2013 -- 40,091 miles -- driving 74 mph in cruse control just died ...

48. 10/04/2013 -- 68,000 miles -- Add another one to the list OMG.

49. 10/22/2013 -- 89,000 miles -- Timing chain went on my 09 Challenger

50. 11/13/2013 -- 55,320 miles -- I had hoped I would never be posting this message ...

51. 11/13/2013 -- 42,342 miles -- Just got up to highway speed Bam Powerloss ...

52. 11/21/2013 -- 53,000 miles -- Add me to the list of failures ...

53. 11/27/2013 -- 73,000 miles -- I was cruising at highway speeds (70 mph), in MDS

54. Recall initiated, see below.

Remember, these reports are from this forum alone. Real world numbers are greatly increased.

The things in common when the timing chain breaks so far are:

1. MDS is activated (auto trans., so 6-speed are excluded)
2. Traveling at freeway speeds (or coming off of freeway)
3. 2009-2011 model years affected so far.
4. Limited to the 5.7L motor so far
5. Dodge Challenger only

Things ruled out thus far:

A. 6-speed manual transmissions not affected
B. Other 5.7L vehicles not affected, i.e., Charger, 300, Ram truck
C. New guide shoe (white color) has also failed (see #8 on list of failures)
D. New crate motor has also failed (see #3 and #8 on list of failures)
E. Both stock and mod cars affected
F. Both stock tune and Predator tune (with MDS turned on) affected
G. All oil change intervals affected, i.e., 3,000 miles, 5,000 miles, etc.
H. All types of oil affected, i.e., both synthetic and conventional oil

* Author's notes (last updated 10/28/13):

(1) When I created this thread, I was so taken back by a timing chain failure happening and discovering at least a half dozen similar occurrences, that I attempted to discover if anyone here had experienced a timing chain failure and what their dealership experience was. I got a lot of adverse feedback along the lines of "alarmist" and "chicken little" and other name calling, including some from dealerships and master mechanics, as can be seen in just the first few hundred posts below. Many attempted to derail this thread by taking it off-topic on many, many occasions. Some are still out there promoting denial of the issue. Still, the problem remains, it is real and it continues to plague fellow Challenger owners.

(2) The timing chain concern can be alleviated by disabling MDS (a band-aid solution not a fix). All but one recent report have shown that MDS was engaged and the car was traveling at freeway speeds. You can prevent MDS from being activated by switching into manual mode while driving on the freeway. You can read How to use the Autostick feature and manual mode here. You can also use a tuner to disable the MDS feature, but be forewarned, if the dealership discovers your use of a tuner on the car, you are in for a fight to get the repairs done under warranty.

(3) Chrysler is aware of the issue and has been monitoring this thread for some time regardless of they might tell you. In addition, many people have already telephoned customer service and have written to Chrysler directly. But, even without all of that, you don't have timing chains, tensioners, heads and short blocks rolling out of the warehouse in the numbers that they have without raising some internal red flags of a potential issue.

(4) Talks of running off to court and filing a lawsuit over this issue are misguided. Your warranty specifically states that you MUST first submit the matter to arbitration. Any lawsuit would be immediately dismissed, and now you are out the filing fees.

(5) When I first created this thread, the weekly parts demand for timing chains was at about 15. It is currently hovering around 35 at the moment.

(6) Chrysler has switched from the black tensioner and guide to white (supposedly stronger) and then to an aluminum tensioner and guide with a plastic face plate (the current part). Both black and white guides have failed. No reports of the aluminum failing yet but they are relatively new first showing up in mid-2013 R/T's.

(7) The exact cause of the timing chain failure is still unknown. In fact, it may never been known. There are just too many factors involved to isolate the problem, and if we haven't discovered the cause in over 350,000 page views, how can we expect Chrysler to? While there is a lot of speculation as to the exact cause, which seems to go round-and-round every few hundred posts, it is all just that -- speculation. What we do for for certain is that MDS is playing a part in the timing chain failures.

(8) Special shout outs to Desert Bum, Hal H, hmk123, Force10, 19johned53, and the nameless many who have helped to keep this issue real and on topic. Your comments are appreciated.

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* Author's notes (last updated 02/12/14):

Customer Satisfaction Notification P01
Engine Timing Chain and Chain Guide
Models
IMPORTANT: Some of the involved vehicles may be in dealer used vehicle inventory. Dealers should complete this repair on these vehicles before retail delivery. Dealers should also perform this repair on vehicles in for service. Involved vehicles can be determined by using the VIP inquiry process.
Subject
Repair
2009-2012 (LC) Dodge Challenger
(LD) Dodge Charger
(LX) Chrysler 300
NOTE: This recall applies only to the above vehicles equipped with a 5.7L Hemi engine (sales code EZD or EZH), automatic transmission (sales code DGJ) and rear axle ratio 3.06, 3.73 or 3.92 (sales code DMP, DME or DMH) built from August 04, 2008 through July 10, 2012 (MDH 080406 through 071008).
The engine timing chain guide on about 50,800 of the above vehicles may fracture. A fractured engine timing chain guide could cause the engine timing chain to break. A broken engine timing chain will result in severe engine damage.
The engine timing chain, timing chain tensioner and timing chain guide must be replaced.
Customer Satisfaction Notification P01 Engine Timing Chain and Chain Guide Page 2
Part Number Description
CBPRN291AA Engine Timing Chain Package
Each package contains the following components:
Quantity Description
1 Chain, Engine Timing
1 Guide, Engine Timing Chain
1 Tensioner, Engine Timing Chain
1 O-ring, Oil Pick-up Tube
1 Gasket, Engine Timing Cover
NOTE: Order two heater tube O-rings separately listed below for each repair.
Part Number Description
53013736AA O-ring, Heater Tube (order two per vehicle)
Each dealer
to whom vehicles in the recall were assigned will receive enough Engine Timing Chain Packages to service about 5% of those vehicles.

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Recall type:

Customer Satisfaction Notification - Customer Satisfaction Notifications are preventive in nature and involve warranty or customer satisfaction issues such as non-safety repairs. Chrysler will correct the problem, at no charge, even if the vehicle is out of warranty and you are not the original owner.

You can check if your vehicle is subject to the timing chain issue recall (or any other recall) by visiting the Chrysler website and entering your vehicle's VIN number. Visit: http://www.chrysler.com/en/mobile/webselfservice/

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We really want to thank everyone who wrote us, (Pietro), with their timing chain concerns. The engineering team has completed their work and the following statement has been released. If there are any questions, reach out to us on this forum as opposed to sending an email as that will be quicker.

Chrysler Group is launching a customer-service action to bolster timing-chain system durability in certain cars equipped with 5.7-liter HEMI® V-8 engines.

The decision follows an extensive investigation to determine the precise issue and appropriate remedy.
The investigation discovered the engine’s fuel-saving cylinder-deactivation technology may cause an adverse interaction with the timing-chain system. (Chrysler Group is unaware of any related injuries or accidents.) As a result, the Company will replace – at no cost to customers – the timing chains, tensioners and guides in certain vehicles built between Aug. 4, 2008 and July 10, 2012.

Affected are certain model-year 2009-2012 Dodge Charger and Chrysler 300 full-size sedans, and Dodge Challenger sport coupes. The scope is limited to vehicles equipped with 5-speed automatic transmissions and axle ratios of 3.06, 3.73 or 3.92.

Beginning this month, Chrysler Group will contact affected customers with instructions to schedule service appointments with their dealers.

Chrysler Group greatly appreciates the patience demonstrated by its customers while this issue was under investigation. The Company also values and shares the passion expressed on these pages by customers and fans alike.

Thanks,

DodgeCares
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Article: Timing Chain Failure on the Dodge Challenger – Ground Zero

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#2,473 ·
I'm thinking that electronic transmissions have been "by-wire" even before throttle-by-wire started popping up everywhere. Hence it is purely up to the programming as far as what is accepted as a valid input for a particular state of operation. It made sense to me that new rules are in effect, but probably a lot of people don't even realize things are different behind the mechanical control that they can touch.

Anybody ever recall all those Star Trek episodes where the helm never responds at the particular moment that would have been really useful? I guess nobody ever expected it would become more than just a convenient plot device. ;)
 
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#2,475 ·
I'm thinking that electronic transmissions have been "by-wire" even before throttle-by-wire started popping up everywhere. Hence it is purely up to the programming as far as what is accepted as a valid input for a particular state of operation. It made sense to me that new rules are in effect, but probably a lot of people don't even realize things are different behind the mechanical control that they can touch.
I assume when the rest of the line gets the 8 speed they too will have that knob on the dash that the Ram will have instead of traditional shifter. I heard but forgot why the console shifter could not be used for the 8 speeds.
 
#2,476 ·
Im in the market for a 13 rt automatic and this is starting to scare me. I think it pretty safe to say that mds seems to be the major factor in this tc issue. So...how do you turn mds off? Ive seen some posts about predator? A tuner? Diablo? What are these? Im not the most knowledgeable car guy so any kniwledge is good knowledge. Also, does disabling or turning off mds void warranty?
 
#2,482 ·
same here. I have asked at least 4 service managers at Dodge dealers (DFW area) their knowledge and they say they have not seen any failures. I went a step further I personally know Service Directors at a Chevy dealer and one from a Ford dealer... they haven't even heard of a possible timing chain/MDS issue and believe me if they thought there was an issue with a competitors vehicle they'd be the first to yell it from the mountain tops so the issue must be somewhat limited and that's the reason for all of the speculation, what causes this and why so limited of occurrence?

I asked about disabling the MDS with a tune and was told without a doubt, if you do ...no more warranty on that engine and if we're guessing wrong and disabling the MDS with a tune does not cure the cause of this problem you just pitched out your financial protection and the repair bill will be on you. ... sounds like a dilemma unless you are willing to buy a manual shift car and even that has lately came up as not a guarantee that the TC is safe.

if I decide to buy (probably will) I'll just make sure and get an extended warranty, care for the car meticulously by maintaining it by the book, drive it and monitor for proactive, concrete information that may be of real help just in case the issue turns out to be more widespread..
 
#2,484 ·
If I wanted an automatic, I would not hesitate to buy a new one as the drivetrain warranty will cover you if this becomes an issue. Also it has been stated throughout this thread, that by merely going to sport shift into fifth gear disables MDS, so you don't need a tuner to disable it it that is your goal. I WOULD be cautious tho in buying a used high mileage automatic tho most are still under drivetrain warranty which seems to be repairing the ones that have had this failure.
 
#2,487 ·
I think my path is going to be disabling MDS with the Trinity and getting the timing components inspected every 24,000 miles. That's basically an inspection every two years for me.
 
#2,488 ·
^^^ Haven't decided on the exact mileage, but it's also my plan.
 
#2,489 ·
RSCARAWA & Hal H, thanks for the info on the 8-speeds. I'll have to track down and re-read that article I saw regarding the Rams. There was some reason mentioned why they could not use a traditional shifter for the 8-speeds. But I'm glad it won't affect the rest of the line.

For Luke or anyone else who has put lots of miles on their auto RT, every time I'm convinced to go ahead and get an auto for my daily driver, another TC failure crops up and I postpone, hoping Chrysler will speak up. Obviously that's not going to happen. I've waited long enough. So my last concern is with what some have mentioned about auto's with lots of mileage getting noisy and having a lag when coming out of MDS. Any input as to how annoying any of this is or if it's a real concern at all. Thanks much.
 
#2,490 ·
That's what really irritates me on this situation. Challenger owners either have to "pay" for a TC "inspection", or possibly void the warranty by using a tuner to disable the MDS.

Don't start on the "I'll remove the tune before I go to the dealer" crap. The last thing on your mind when a car breaks down somewhere or nowhere, is putting the stock tune back in. Besides, handhelds can't take the temp extremes, so keeping it in the car is not a good option.

If the failure rate is really as low as some have stated, and Chrysler knows about it, then Chrysler should put in a new crate motor, not let the dealer that your stuck at try and rebuild the motor.

If the failure rate is as high as some have stated, and Chrysler knows about it, then Chrysler should establish some sort of "inspection/repair" at no cost. The problem with this is the legal eagles and the bean counters.

Why spend money if a product hasn't failed, and if you "inspect" it and it passes now, but fails later, then Chrysler is open for potential legal actions.

Unfortunately in this day and age, legal advice is usually: "say nothing and do nothing". Take responsibility for nothing.

Chrysler is doing a fantastic job of staying "mum". It's not a conspiracy, just a layer of management that looks at failures/costs, then gets the corporate legal teams advice.........which is say nothing, do nothing until it breaks.

Look at the price increase on the new TC/tensioner assy. It was posted that it's taken a dramatic jump lately?? Wonder why??

I'll bet $10 that some bean counters saw an increase in useage, and thought, here's a part(S) that can be at a better profit margin...................................because useage is up, and folks have to have it. Great thinking ain't it.

Great way to treat customers too. That'll build a lifetime loyal to the brand customer base. LOL
 
#2,497 ·
I've had a bad lag coming out of MDS a couple of times, once when the car was still quite new. It seems to only happen when I tromp the throttle at just the wrong moment.
 
#2,498 ·
On my Charger the lag was at its worst when accelerating from a few seconds of engine braking, like at the apex of a downhill onramp I take. It's like the engine did not want to go back to V8 mode: lag, vibration, and resistance, all with a low-pitch fluttering sound in the exhaust... sweet! :ugh2:
 
#2,500 ·
update from 162 of 500

Bradd D:

I didnt hear a noise like card in spoke, only heard rubbing or grinding sound very similar to water pump bearing going bad.

ANYWAY car fixed now, ended up being warranty thank God. 10 valves replaced and now Im driving it in autostick as much as practical to keep it out of MDS. Next time I hear the noise Im ordering a new timing chain, better than paying for heads rebuilt.

:11:
 
#2,501 ·
How long of a warning noise did you get before catastrophe? Are we talking about long enough for you to respond to it or about as long as the thought "that's a weird sound" to come to mind?
 
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#2,505 · (Edited)
So to me the most interesting case was HEMI09ChallengerR/T with his 3 failures. Didn’t his first TC break at only 4000 miles? I assume something about his long commute did trigger it. As far as I remember he got a new engine block every time. I guess the big question is: would he have had the same failure in another R/T or is there a variation in production here that only shows up in some cars? When they rebuilt his engine, what did stay the same that could have an impact? And will others who had this happen and keep the same driving pattern see another failure?
 
#2,506 ·
So to me the most interesting case was HEMI09ChallengerR/T with his 3 failures. Didn’t his first TC break at only 4000 miles? I assume something about his long commute did trigger it. As far as I remember he got a new engine block every time. I guess the big question is: would he have had the same failure in another R/T or is there a variation in production here that only shows up in some cars? When they rebuilt his engine, what did stay the same that could have an impact? And will others who had this happen and keep the same driving pattern see another failure?
Two questions I have for HEMI09ChallengerR/T are, do you do a lot of freeway driving, and do you have a favorite speed you set the car to when you put it in cruise control on the freeway? Thanks
 
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#2,521 ·
Luke, I have a 2010 RT-C automatic and will likely change out the TC for an aftermarket piece at some future point for piece of mind. I don't see how MDS has anything to do with TC failures and discount any harmonics theory.
Is your recommendation, even with the rare incidence of failures, to disable MDS?
 
#2,516 ·
You will have to buy an older used Srt8, as the new ones come with MDS or assume the problem has been addressed and solved with a software update...Good luck with that..
 
#2,534 ·
It might have been addressed.......

“It will be going into 4-cyl. mode more often because the engine is so big,” Ralph Gilles, president and CEO of SRT (Street and Racing Technologies), tells Ward’s at a media event here.

“On the freeway, if you set cruise control at 70 mph (113 km/h), you’ll be in 4-cyl. mode indefinitely, even up hills. It’s that good now,” he says.
 
#2,519 · (Edited)
one poster complained that only heads/and or valves had been replaced with marks on the piston tops and he had a secondary problem and expected it..I'm pretty sure I remember it that way.. and service after a potential problem is a very real concern even though a dealer offered a 7yr/100K mile powertrain warranty at no extra cost to me.
 
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