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Timing chain failure on the Dodge Challenger

1M views 6K replies 443 participants last post by  Mopar Frank 
#1 · (Edited)
I have been finding many reports of the timing chain breaking on the Dodge Challenger, mostly in the 5.7L Hemi engines. The timing chain breaks in most reported instances around the 35K-40K mile range.

Once the timing chain breaks, the end result is usually the valves smacking the pistons which bend the valves, damages the pistons and leads to catastrophic engine failure. This often requires a new long block.

How many of you have had the timing chain break? How many miles on the car when when it happened? and what was your experience in getting it repaired?

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Known instances of the timing chain breaking on the 5.7L Dodge Challenger just in this forum alone in the past few months:

1. 06/27/2011 -- mileage not mentioned -- ... come to find out the timing chain broke ...

2. 07/19/2011 -- 85,000 miles -- ... and the timing chain broke...

3. 09/27/2011 -- 33,385 miles -- 2009 R/T Motor Broke

4. 11/23/2011 -- 38,000 miles -- Club member's car. Broken timing chain. Car in shop for over two months.

5. 12/07/2011 -- 34,000 miles -- I found this thread the hard way...

6. 12/19/2011 -- 22,600 miles -- 2010 Challenger - Timing Chain Breaks...

7. 01/21/2012 -- 60,000 miles -- Engine went..........

8. 02/02/2012 -- 38,000 miles -- 2009 Challenger R/T lost a second motor .. (Second occurrence. See #3 above. 4,000 miles on new motor).

9. 03/08/2012 -- 50,000 miles -- BLOWN ENGINE 50,000 miles

10. 03/23/2012 -- 14,000 miles -- ... my timing chain snapped

11. 04/04/2012 -- 53,500 miles -- My timing chain just broke today ...

12. 04/16/2012 -- 46,000 miles -- Mine is in the shop with a broken timing chain...

13. 04/27/2012 -- 31,000 miles -- My chain broke back in December of 2011 ...

14. 05/22/2012 -- 37,000 miles -- Here's another 2010 Auto R/T with a broken timing chain! ...

15. 06/13/2012 -- 40,257 miles -- I too have a broken timing chain ...

16. 06/23/2012 -- 38,485 miles -- Guess I can be added to the list ...

17. 06/26/2012 -- 38,500 miles -- Just happened last Saturday ...

18. 08/02/2012 -- 59,134 miles -- ... all of a sudden Bam the engine shuts down

19. 08/03/2012 -- 38,000 miles -- I had this happen at 38000 miles, 2010 R/T Auto

20. 08/08/2012 -- 27,000 miles -- The timing chain on my 2010 R/T just broke ...

21. 08/10/2012 -- 59,300 miles -- ... timing chain broke again. (Third occurrence. See #3 and #8 above. 16,000 miles on new motor).

22. 08/10/2012 -- 63,000 miles -- ... timing chain broke cruising at 70mph on the highway

23. 09/03/2012 -- 40,000 miles -- ... while driving to dallas my timing chain broke

24. 09/11/2012 -- 24,000 miles -- Welp - chalk up another one ... (first 2011 to be reported here)

25. 09/21/2012 -- 31,100 miles -- This just happened a few days ago ...

26. 10/10/2012 -- 42,559 miles -- Well it's looking like I'm the latest timing chain victim ...

27. 10/24/2012 -- 65,000 miles -- ... driving on the highway 65MPH and "Pop goes to weasel"

28. 11/18/2012 -- 40,000 miles -- Mine just broke...2010 mopar 10, no mods, auto ... (first to break not at highway speeds)

29. 11/19/2012 -- 39,000 miles -- just got another 2010 with 39000 in today ...

30. 12/04/2012 -- 40,000 miles -- The timing chain on my 2010 Auto RT broke last Friday ...

31. 12/09/2012 -- miles pending -- ... R/T not running at the moment timing chain broke ...

32. 12/11/2012 -- 27,000 miles -- ... cruising on the interstate at 70, MDS on, when suddenly loss of power ...

33. 01/03/2013 -- 58,000 miles -- ... the dealer has confirmed that I did have a timing chain failure.

34. 01/22/2013 -- 40,000 miles -- It has been confirmed I as well did have a broken timing chain

35. 01/22/2013 -- 43,000 miles -- 2010 R/T, 5-speed auto with mds. No mods at all.

36. 02/22/2013 -- 52,000 miles -- ... it happen to me this weekend ...

37. 04/15/2013 -- 55,000 miles -- I have now become victim to a failed timing chain

38. 04/20/2013 -- 73,000 miles -- cruising at 65 mph, in MSD, engine 'shut down'

39. 05/13/2013 -- 66,000 miles -- lost it on the interstate doing 73 in MDS

40. 05/20/2013 -- 56.616 miles -- ... on the freeway headed to work in the rain and Wham

41. 05/24/2013 -- 28,000 miles -- the chain went on the highway at 70+ mph

42. 06/07/2013 -- 88,256 miles -- ... driving down the highway heard a loud pop ...

43. 07/01/2013 -- 52,000 miles -- Timing chain broke on freeway ...

44. 07/23/2013 -- 54,057 miles -- Was in a canyon going uphill at about 55mph ... (claims MDS not engaged)

45. 07/26/2013 -- 49,000 miles -- Cruising along 65 mph engine stalled.

46. 08/10/2013 -- 22,281 miles -- I wish I found this topic sooner

47. 09/17/2013 -- 40,091 miles -- driving 74 mph in cruse control just died ...

48. 10/04/2013 -- 68,000 miles -- Add another one to the list OMG.

49. 10/22/2013 -- 89,000 miles -- Timing chain went on my 09 Challenger

50. 11/13/2013 -- 55,320 miles -- I had hoped I would never be posting this message ...

51. 11/13/2013 -- 42,342 miles -- Just got up to highway speed Bam Powerloss ...

52. 11/21/2013 -- 53,000 miles -- Add me to the list of failures ...

53. 11/27/2013 -- 73,000 miles -- I was cruising at highway speeds (70 mph), in MDS

54. Recall initiated, see below.

Remember, these reports are from this forum alone. Real world numbers are greatly increased.

The things in common when the timing chain breaks so far are:

1. MDS is activated (auto trans., so 6-speed are excluded)
2. Traveling at freeway speeds (or coming off of freeway)
3. 2009-2011 model years affected so far.
4. Limited to the 5.7L motor so far
5. Dodge Challenger only

Things ruled out thus far:

A. 6-speed manual transmissions not affected
B. Other 5.7L vehicles not affected, i.e., Charger, 300, Ram truck
C. New guide shoe (white color) has also failed (see #8 on list of failures)
D. New crate motor has also failed (see #3 and #8 on list of failures)
E. Both stock and mod cars affected
F. Both stock tune and Predator tune (with MDS turned on) affected
G. All oil change intervals affected, i.e., 3,000 miles, 5,000 miles, etc.
H. All types of oil affected, i.e., both synthetic and conventional oil

* Author's notes (last updated 10/28/13):

(1) When I created this thread, I was so taken back by a timing chain failure happening and discovering at least a half dozen similar occurrences, that I attempted to discover if anyone here had experienced a timing chain failure and what their dealership experience was. I got a lot of adverse feedback along the lines of "alarmist" and "chicken little" and other name calling, including some from dealerships and master mechanics, as can be seen in just the first few hundred posts below. Many attempted to derail this thread by taking it off-topic on many, many occasions. Some are still out there promoting denial of the issue. Still, the problem remains, it is real and it continues to plague fellow Challenger owners.

(2) The timing chain concern can be alleviated by disabling MDS (a band-aid solution not a fix). All but one recent report have shown that MDS was engaged and the car was traveling at freeway speeds. You can prevent MDS from being activated by switching into manual mode while driving on the freeway. You can read How to use the Autostick feature and manual mode here. You can also use a tuner to disable the MDS feature, but be forewarned, if the dealership discovers your use of a tuner on the car, you are in for a fight to get the repairs done under warranty.

(3) Chrysler is aware of the issue and has been monitoring this thread for some time regardless of they might tell you. In addition, many people have already telephoned customer service and have written to Chrysler directly. But, even without all of that, you don't have timing chains, tensioners, heads and short blocks rolling out of the warehouse in the numbers that they have without raising some internal red flags of a potential issue.

(4) Talks of running off to court and filing a lawsuit over this issue are misguided. Your warranty specifically states that you MUST first submit the matter to arbitration. Any lawsuit would be immediately dismissed, and now you are out the filing fees.

(5) When I first created this thread, the weekly parts demand for timing chains was at about 15. It is currently hovering around 35 at the moment.

(6) Chrysler has switched from the black tensioner and guide to white (supposedly stronger) and then to an aluminum tensioner and guide with a plastic face plate (the current part). Both black and white guides have failed. No reports of the aluminum failing yet but they are relatively new first showing up in mid-2013 R/T's.

(7) The exact cause of the timing chain failure is still unknown. In fact, it may never been known. There are just too many factors involved to isolate the problem, and if we haven't discovered the cause in over 350,000 page views, how can we expect Chrysler to? While there is a lot of speculation as to the exact cause, which seems to go round-and-round every few hundred posts, it is all just that -- speculation. What we do for for certain is that MDS is playing a part in the timing chain failures.

(8) Special shout outs to Desert Bum, Hal H, hmk123, Force10, 19johned53, and the nameless many who have helped to keep this issue real and on topic. Your comments are appreciated.

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* Author's notes (last updated 02/12/14):

Customer Satisfaction Notification P01
Engine Timing Chain and Chain Guide
Models
IMPORTANT: Some of the involved vehicles may be in dealer used vehicle inventory. Dealers should complete this repair on these vehicles before retail delivery. Dealers should also perform this repair on vehicles in for service. Involved vehicles can be determined by using the VIP inquiry process.
Subject
Repair
2009-2012 (LC) Dodge Challenger
(LD) Dodge Charger
(LX) Chrysler 300
NOTE: This recall applies only to the above vehicles equipped with a 5.7L Hemi engine (sales code EZD or EZH), automatic transmission (sales code DGJ) and rear axle ratio 3.06, 3.73 or 3.92 (sales code DMP, DME or DMH) built from August 04, 2008 through July 10, 2012 (MDH 080406 through 071008).
The engine timing chain guide on about 50,800 of the above vehicles may fracture. A fractured engine timing chain guide could cause the engine timing chain to break. A broken engine timing chain will result in severe engine damage.
The engine timing chain, timing chain tensioner and timing chain guide must be replaced.
Customer Satisfaction Notification P01 Engine Timing Chain and Chain Guide Page 2
Part Number Description
CBPRN291AA Engine Timing Chain Package
Each package contains the following components:
Quantity Description
1 Chain, Engine Timing
1 Guide, Engine Timing Chain
1 Tensioner, Engine Timing Chain
1 O-ring, Oil Pick-up Tube
1 Gasket, Engine Timing Cover
NOTE: Order two heater tube O-rings separately listed below for each repair.
Part Number Description
53013736AA O-ring, Heater Tube (order two per vehicle)
Each dealer
to whom vehicles in the recall were assigned will receive enough Engine Timing Chain Packages to service about 5% of those vehicles.

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Recall type:

Customer Satisfaction Notification - Customer Satisfaction Notifications are preventive in nature and involve warranty or customer satisfaction issues such as non-safety repairs. Chrysler will correct the problem, at no charge, even if the vehicle is out of warranty and you are not the original owner.

You can check if your vehicle is subject to the timing chain issue recall (or any other recall) by visiting the Chrysler website and entering your vehicle's VIN number. Visit: http://www.chrysler.com/en/mobile/webselfservice/

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We really want to thank everyone who wrote us, (Pietro), with their timing chain concerns. The engineering team has completed their work and the following statement has been released. If there are any questions, reach out to us on this forum as opposed to sending an email as that will be quicker.

Chrysler Group is launching a customer-service action to bolster timing-chain system durability in certain cars equipped with 5.7-liter HEMI® V-8 engines.

The decision follows an extensive investigation to determine the precise issue and appropriate remedy.
The investigation discovered the engine’s fuel-saving cylinder-deactivation technology may cause an adverse interaction with the timing-chain system. (Chrysler Group is unaware of any related injuries or accidents.) As a result, the Company will replace – at no cost to customers – the timing chains, tensioners and guides in certain vehicles built between Aug. 4, 2008 and July 10, 2012.

Affected are certain model-year 2009-2012 Dodge Charger and Chrysler 300 full-size sedans, and Dodge Challenger sport coupes. The scope is limited to vehicles equipped with 5-speed automatic transmissions and axle ratios of 3.06, 3.73 or 3.92.

Beginning this month, Chrysler Group will contact affected customers with instructions to schedule service appointments with their dealers.

Chrysler Group greatly appreciates the patience demonstrated by its customers while this issue was under investigation. The Company also values and shares the passion expressed on these pages by customers and fans alike.

Thanks,

DodgeCares
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Article: Timing Chain Failure on the Dodge Challenger – Ground Zero

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#2,522 ·
I will respond to these 2 questions and walk away from this thread

I did not take it as being blamed, I would really like to see one and be able to go thru the tear down, 30+ years of drag and circle track racing, I have a keen sense when inspecting broken engines, have blown more than my share of high end exotic engines

Most dealer's techs don't care about the why as much as the what do I need to do to fix it, dealers technicians and i do not blame them, get paid to fix and get back on the road, not to play engineer

And before you ***** about technician in general, consider their lifespan, they normally work for near minimum wage for 3 to 4 years, usually have 2 years of college and spend approx 5 to 7ks in tools a year, by the time there 40 they better be in a management position because their backs and hands are worn out

I think somebody that's very knowledgeable going thru a proper race engine style tear down could significantly assist in determining the thru condition of the failure

Luke
 
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#2,526 ·
+1

Totally agree with you and I, too, welcome Luke's insight. I have a good relationship with my service advisor and the dealership has provided me great service over the years. Sometimes it also depends on how you as the customer approach them. My dealership has been family owned since 1875. I don't agree with everything they do but they obviously must be doing something right after being in business for so long.

I think what makes this thread so argumentative is that yes, on the one hand the listed occurrences seem still low in the grand scheme of things. Yet the reports indicate that at least a certain number of people seem to get this from just driving at highway speeds. And that just shouldn’t happen…
 
#2,527 ·
+1

Totally agree with you and I, too, welcome Luke's insight. I have a good relationship with my service advisor and the dealership has provided me great service over the years. Sometimes it also depends on how you as the customer approach them. My dealership has been family owned since 1875. I don't agree with everything they do but they obviously must be doing something right after being in business for so long.

I think what makes this thread so argumentative is that yes, on the one hand the listed occurrences seem still low in the grand scheme of things. Yet the reports indicate that at least a certain number of people seem to get this from just driving at highway speeds. And that just shouldn’t happen…
It just shouldn't be happening period........so we should all just move forward to try and find a resolution and we should all appreciate everyone's input....because eventually that input will be the answer.
 
#2,528 · (Edited)
Steve, you are saying that the mechanic that works at a Chrysler dealership that tears down motors, transmissions, brake systems, works for a little over minimum wage and spends 5-7 thousand dollars a year on tools? And they do this for approx 4 years?

And he might be the one that going to change my timing chain, pistons, and see that the valve train and heads are reassembled to factory spec?
 
#2,530 · (Edited)
Steve, you are saying that the mechanic that works at a Chrysler dealership that tears down motors, transmissions, brake systems, works for a little over minimum wage and spends 5-7 thousand dollars a year on tools? And they do this for approx 4 years?

And he might be the one that going to change my timing chain, pistons, and see that the valve train and heads are reassembled to factory spec?
In Canada it is a 4 year apprenticeship....includes lots of schooling to become a full fledged mechanic and you start with low wages and move up as time progresses and then there is always tons more training every year to keep up with all the current technology as it evolves. In the first 4 years you do all the crap work......to earn your place.
 
#2,529 ·
What he is saying is that they start out not making much money and by the time they finally make a decent living the job has started to have an impact on their health. And I am sure many start out at smaller shops that pay less. I understood it as a comment about the industry, not dealerships of a specific manufacturer.
 
#2,541 ·
The shop foreman (close friend of mine) at my dealer says he has not seen a broken timing belt....The 5.7 MDS has been around for over 7 years now....lot of 1st generation cars turning 150,000+ miles w/o issue....I bet this was maybe a run of bad parts that maybe effected a small percentage of the cars made....if it were a major problem there would be many more incidents...think of the trans leak on the 05/06 cars...affected almost everyone over time..
 
#2,542 ·
The shop foreman (close friend of mine) at my dealer says he has not seen a broken timing belt....The 5.7 MDS has been around for over 7 years now....lot of 1st generation cars turning 150,000+ miles w/o issue....I bet this was maybe a run of bad parts that maybe effected a small percentage of the cars made....if it were a major problem there would be many more incidents...think of the trans leak on the 05/06 cars...affected almost everyone over time..
That is exactly correct^^^. And the problem is that only the "Challengers" seem to be affected. That's why we're leaning toward a "tuning" issue with the Challenger model as the root issue.

Can't be a bad batch of chains either because it's affecting the 2009 thru 2011 models.
 
#2,543 · (Edited)
And round and round we go again... Was bound to happen with so many pages: people miss that their points were already addressed and dismissed long ago.

What this or that tech, or even service manager, saw or is allowed to talk about is irrelevant. Most also deny knowledge of rocker claddings cracking and the guy who sold me my Charger didn't know it had MDS: people's opinions are largely worthless because they are not all-seeing or dedicated enough to research what they sell or service. "It's been known to happen" must be trained out of people as a response to a customer because it gives them a case. So they just go, "Huh. Never saw that before". True or not doesn't matter.

And we're not talking about Hemis, just the ones on the automatic Challengers, post '09, and over about 14,000 miles. Even Luke is coming around on that, it seems. We're not looking at a widespread issue either (so far!), but neither is it negligible enough to brush off. Timing chains don't break; one is freaky, but 33 times? Come on now. Wait until Challengers start having some miles on them. They don't get driven like Chargers and those that do, like the last one with 58K miles in 2 years... guess what happened.
 
#2,545 ·
Last information I was told by my friend is that there was an update to the tension-er and that the oil control valve came with star instructions to remove the upper screen before installing new part. Both of us have Challengers and are hopeing that a final solution will come from Chrysler soon.
 
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#2,546 ·
The vids were an interesting watch. I'm wondering if the inside of my engine looks like that, with the carbon. I know I got some sloppy soot accumulation on my exhaust tips.

The camera guy also noted funny looking coolant. I don't know what to make of that. Maybe the coolant did go funky by something done during the car ownership, or maybe coolant is bound to get contaminated with who knows what when you tear an engine down? Anybody want to weigh-in on that?
Carbon build up can result from:

*low quality (low detergent level) fuels
*low octane fuel = more timing retard - can contribute to carbon build up
*driving conditions (short trips / stop & go driving w/o engine warming up)
*heavy throttle in city driving

There's been instances of sludgy coolant tanks sporadically turning up (less in the recent year) with new cars that have been posted on the forums when owners noticed that.
 
#2,547 · (Edited)
I've put about 4500 miles on her since the TC broke and all is still well so far. I have been running the Predator with stock tune, MDS off, transmission shifts firmed up, and 10% throttle boost. Only down about 1 mpg from when MDS was active. Much better driving and the exhaust sounds so much better staying in all 8 cylinders!!
 
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#2,558 ·
The more I read about this motor the more discouraged I get. How can this 5.7 hemi have this many issues and now a carbon buildup issue with low mileage, sludgy coolant and a bicycle chain to boot. I'm starting to believe that when Chrysler was going bankrupt in 2009 they purchased cheaper parts and materials and decided to use them until they got back on track, hence the 09 and 10's failing.


Sent from my iPhone using AutoGuide.com App

Lol....Its not funny but in a way it kinda is.Im thinking more and more about a 6.1 myself..Hemi-Orange of course
 
#2,556 · (Edited)
Luke, in your opinion is this a troublesome engine?


Sent from my iPhone using AutoGuide.com App

no, i own 3 of them, they friggin rock!!!!!!!!!!!

you could'nt give me a 4.6 of 5.4 or a F...d diesel..................

in 6 years i have been here, we have replace a total of 6 5.7L hemi's, 3 in the same police car, 2 were severely sludged up, one had drop a valve, on a couple of year models, 07'isssh had a valve spring breaking issue, usually causing a mil lamp and engine misfire, replace 2 springs and never see again

we sell upwards of 250 vehicles a month, we do tremedous business locally and internet base, we have a good feel for what is happening around us

our 2.7L from years pass are terrible engines in my mind, our new 3.6L even with a few cylinder head issues we have seen are very good engines, our drivetrains are quite good

the issues with chrysler from the early 2000's, overall quality wasnt that great, our fit and finish was poor at best, however in the last 3 to 4 years, now that we have gotten rid of Benz, and our engineers are allowed to do what they want and do best, we are seeing some the best quality and vehicles we have ever had....

our trucks, our suvs and the overall quality of our vehicles in general is improved to world class level

i would put our GC against any luxury suv's, our new Rams against any trucks.....

are we perfect, heck NO, but right now there is a true feeling at Chrysler of wanting to build cars and trucks, the way we should do it,

there is a real feeling of wanting and doing our best to build vehicles that anyone would want to dream about and drive.....something that for years was completely gone at Chrysler!!!!!

Luke Vigneault
vice president fixed operations
 
#2,553 · (Edited)
carbon buildup happens in all engines, some more than others!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the hemi's and our diesels are some of the best engines in the world, do not paint brush in a wide stroke, go to any other brand forums and you will see plenty of bitching about their stuff.....

when i move to NC and back into a chrysler dealer after almost 7 years i was shocked on how few diesel injectors and diesel parts we stock, simply was no need to..................

Luke
 
#2,557 ·
I agree that it is a smooth running motor, I just don't understand why the cheaper materials such as guides and thin chains used on a powerful hemi and why the need for a catch can on a advanced motor such as this.


Sent from my iPhone using AutoGuide.com App

in real world application, no one designs or builds anything with the intention to have it failed, however even with best intentions, sometime, suppliers, vendors fall short, employees do the same, and something you designed and tested does very well and when actually use in a daily basis application develops an issue that no one anticipated

Luke
 
#2,561 ·
As I was leaving the gym last night, I saw the owner of this pcp RT classic in the parking lot leaving at the same time. I asked him if he had an auto or 6 speed. He had an auto. Said he'd never heard of this forum or the TC problem. So I informed him on the forum and this thread. He said he was about 46k miles in and didnt even know how to use autostick. He didnt seem the least bit concerned. Didnt even know what MDS is or how to know if it was on or not. I have been using autostick primarily myself lately but I wish I had his peace of mind.
 
#2,563 ·
My current clients own a GC SRT8. I haven't driven it yet, but I checked it out and talked to their car guy as it was being being detailed. Compared the fit and finish to the Audi Q7 that it replaced. I'll take the SRT8 any day, and no one is complaining about the cojones or handling, but some details are so-so. No idea about the reliability and probably won't know from that particular vehicle as they change cars every two years.
 
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