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Timing chain failure on the Dodge Challenger

1M views 6K replies 443 participants last post by  Mopar Frank 
#1 · (Edited)
I have been finding many reports of the timing chain breaking on the Dodge Challenger, mostly in the 5.7L Hemi engines. The timing chain breaks in most reported instances around the 35K-40K mile range.

Once the timing chain breaks, the end result is usually the valves smacking the pistons which bend the valves, damages the pistons and leads to catastrophic engine failure. This often requires a new long block.

How many of you have had the timing chain break? How many miles on the car when when it happened? and what was your experience in getting it repaired?

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Known instances of the timing chain breaking on the 5.7L Dodge Challenger just in this forum alone in the past few months:

1. 06/27/2011 -- mileage not mentioned -- ... come to find out the timing chain broke ...

2. 07/19/2011 -- 85,000 miles -- ... and the timing chain broke...

3. 09/27/2011 -- 33,385 miles -- 2009 R/T Motor Broke

4. 11/23/2011 -- 38,000 miles -- Club member's car. Broken timing chain. Car in shop for over two months.

5. 12/07/2011 -- 34,000 miles -- I found this thread the hard way...

6. 12/19/2011 -- 22,600 miles -- 2010 Challenger - Timing Chain Breaks...

7. 01/21/2012 -- 60,000 miles -- Engine went..........

8. 02/02/2012 -- 38,000 miles -- 2009 Challenger R/T lost a second motor .. (Second occurrence. See #3 above. 4,000 miles on new motor).

9. 03/08/2012 -- 50,000 miles -- BLOWN ENGINE 50,000 miles

10. 03/23/2012 -- 14,000 miles -- ... my timing chain snapped

11. 04/04/2012 -- 53,500 miles -- My timing chain just broke today ...

12. 04/16/2012 -- 46,000 miles -- Mine is in the shop with a broken timing chain...

13. 04/27/2012 -- 31,000 miles -- My chain broke back in December of 2011 ...

14. 05/22/2012 -- 37,000 miles -- Here's another 2010 Auto R/T with a broken timing chain! ...

15. 06/13/2012 -- 40,257 miles -- I too have a broken timing chain ...

16. 06/23/2012 -- 38,485 miles -- Guess I can be added to the list ...

17. 06/26/2012 -- 38,500 miles -- Just happened last Saturday ...

18. 08/02/2012 -- 59,134 miles -- ... all of a sudden Bam the engine shuts down

19. 08/03/2012 -- 38,000 miles -- I had this happen at 38000 miles, 2010 R/T Auto

20. 08/08/2012 -- 27,000 miles -- The timing chain on my 2010 R/T just broke ...

21. 08/10/2012 -- 59,300 miles -- ... timing chain broke again. (Third occurrence. See #3 and #8 above. 16,000 miles on new motor).

22. 08/10/2012 -- 63,000 miles -- ... timing chain broke cruising at 70mph on the highway

23. 09/03/2012 -- 40,000 miles -- ... while driving to dallas my timing chain broke

24. 09/11/2012 -- 24,000 miles -- Welp - chalk up another one ... (first 2011 to be reported here)

25. 09/21/2012 -- 31,100 miles -- This just happened a few days ago ...

26. 10/10/2012 -- 42,559 miles -- Well it's looking like I'm the latest timing chain victim ...

27. 10/24/2012 -- 65,000 miles -- ... driving on the highway 65MPH and "Pop goes to weasel"

28. 11/18/2012 -- 40,000 miles -- Mine just broke...2010 mopar 10, no mods, auto ... (first to break not at highway speeds)

29. 11/19/2012 -- 39,000 miles -- just got another 2010 with 39000 in today ...

30. 12/04/2012 -- 40,000 miles -- The timing chain on my 2010 Auto RT broke last Friday ...

31. 12/09/2012 -- miles pending -- ... R/T not running at the moment timing chain broke ...

32. 12/11/2012 -- 27,000 miles -- ... cruising on the interstate at 70, MDS on, when suddenly loss of power ...

33. 01/03/2013 -- 58,000 miles -- ... the dealer has confirmed that I did have a timing chain failure.

34. 01/22/2013 -- 40,000 miles -- It has been confirmed I as well did have a broken timing chain

35. 01/22/2013 -- 43,000 miles -- 2010 R/T, 5-speed auto with mds. No mods at all.

36. 02/22/2013 -- 52,000 miles -- ... it happen to me this weekend ...

37. 04/15/2013 -- 55,000 miles -- I have now become victim to a failed timing chain

38. 04/20/2013 -- 73,000 miles -- cruising at 65 mph, in MSD, engine 'shut down'

39. 05/13/2013 -- 66,000 miles -- lost it on the interstate doing 73 in MDS

40. 05/20/2013 -- 56.616 miles -- ... on the freeway headed to work in the rain and Wham

41. 05/24/2013 -- 28,000 miles -- the chain went on the highway at 70+ mph

42. 06/07/2013 -- 88,256 miles -- ... driving down the highway heard a loud pop ...

43. 07/01/2013 -- 52,000 miles -- Timing chain broke on freeway ...

44. 07/23/2013 -- 54,057 miles -- Was in a canyon going uphill at about 55mph ... (claims MDS not engaged)

45. 07/26/2013 -- 49,000 miles -- Cruising along 65 mph engine stalled.

46. 08/10/2013 -- 22,281 miles -- I wish I found this topic sooner

47. 09/17/2013 -- 40,091 miles -- driving 74 mph in cruse control just died ...

48. 10/04/2013 -- 68,000 miles -- Add another one to the list OMG.

49. 10/22/2013 -- 89,000 miles -- Timing chain went on my 09 Challenger

50. 11/13/2013 -- 55,320 miles -- I had hoped I would never be posting this message ...

51. 11/13/2013 -- 42,342 miles -- Just got up to highway speed Bam Powerloss ...

52. 11/21/2013 -- 53,000 miles -- Add me to the list of failures ...

53. 11/27/2013 -- 73,000 miles -- I was cruising at highway speeds (70 mph), in MDS

54. Recall initiated, see below.

Remember, these reports are from this forum alone. Real world numbers are greatly increased.

The things in common when the timing chain breaks so far are:

1. MDS is activated (auto trans., so 6-speed are excluded)
2. Traveling at freeway speeds (or coming off of freeway)
3. 2009-2011 model years affected so far.
4. Limited to the 5.7L motor so far
5. Dodge Challenger only

Things ruled out thus far:

A. 6-speed manual transmissions not affected
B. Other 5.7L vehicles not affected, i.e., Charger, 300, Ram truck
C. New guide shoe (white color) has also failed (see #8 on list of failures)
D. New crate motor has also failed (see #3 and #8 on list of failures)
E. Both stock and mod cars affected
F. Both stock tune and Predator tune (with MDS turned on) affected
G. All oil change intervals affected, i.e., 3,000 miles, 5,000 miles, etc.
H. All types of oil affected, i.e., both synthetic and conventional oil

* Author's notes (last updated 10/28/13):

(1) When I created this thread, I was so taken back by a timing chain failure happening and discovering at least a half dozen similar occurrences, that I attempted to discover if anyone here had experienced a timing chain failure and what their dealership experience was. I got a lot of adverse feedback along the lines of "alarmist" and "chicken little" and other name calling, including some from dealerships and master mechanics, as can be seen in just the first few hundred posts below. Many attempted to derail this thread by taking it off-topic on many, many occasions. Some are still out there promoting denial of the issue. Still, the problem remains, it is real and it continues to plague fellow Challenger owners.

(2) The timing chain concern can be alleviated by disabling MDS (a band-aid solution not a fix). All but one recent report have shown that MDS was engaged and the car was traveling at freeway speeds. You can prevent MDS from being activated by switching into manual mode while driving on the freeway. You can read How to use the Autostick feature and manual mode here. You can also use a tuner to disable the MDS feature, but be forewarned, if the dealership discovers your use of a tuner on the car, you are in for a fight to get the repairs done under warranty.

(3) Chrysler is aware of the issue and has been monitoring this thread for some time regardless of they might tell you. In addition, many people have already telephoned customer service and have written to Chrysler directly. But, even without all of that, you don't have timing chains, tensioners, heads and short blocks rolling out of the warehouse in the numbers that they have without raising some internal red flags of a potential issue.

(4) Talks of running off to court and filing a lawsuit over this issue are misguided. Your warranty specifically states that you MUST first submit the matter to arbitration. Any lawsuit would be immediately dismissed, and now you are out the filing fees.

(5) When I first created this thread, the weekly parts demand for timing chains was at about 15. It is currently hovering around 35 at the moment.

(6) Chrysler has switched from the black tensioner and guide to white (supposedly stronger) and then to an aluminum tensioner and guide with a plastic face plate (the current part). Both black and white guides have failed. No reports of the aluminum failing yet but they are relatively new first showing up in mid-2013 R/T's.

(7) The exact cause of the timing chain failure is still unknown. In fact, it may never been known. There are just too many factors involved to isolate the problem, and if we haven't discovered the cause in over 350,000 page views, how can we expect Chrysler to? While there is a lot of speculation as to the exact cause, which seems to go round-and-round every few hundred posts, it is all just that -- speculation. What we do for for certain is that MDS is playing a part in the timing chain failures.

(8) Special shout outs to Desert Bum, Hal H, hmk123, Force10, 19johned53, and the nameless many who have helped to keep this issue real and on topic. Your comments are appreciated.

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* Author's notes (last updated 02/12/14):

Customer Satisfaction Notification P01
Engine Timing Chain and Chain Guide
Models
IMPORTANT: Some of the involved vehicles may be in dealer used vehicle inventory. Dealers should complete this repair on these vehicles before retail delivery. Dealers should also perform this repair on vehicles in for service. Involved vehicles can be determined by using the VIP inquiry process.
Subject
Repair
2009-2012 (LC) Dodge Challenger
(LD) Dodge Charger
(LX) Chrysler 300
NOTE: This recall applies only to the above vehicles equipped with a 5.7L Hemi engine (sales code EZD or EZH), automatic transmission (sales code DGJ) and rear axle ratio 3.06, 3.73 or 3.92 (sales code DMP, DME or DMH) built from August 04, 2008 through July 10, 2012 (MDH 080406 through 071008).
The engine timing chain guide on about 50,800 of the above vehicles may fracture. A fractured engine timing chain guide could cause the engine timing chain to break. A broken engine timing chain will result in severe engine damage.
The engine timing chain, timing chain tensioner and timing chain guide must be replaced.
Customer Satisfaction Notification P01 Engine Timing Chain and Chain Guide Page 2
Part Number Description
CBPRN291AA Engine Timing Chain Package
Each package contains the following components:
Quantity Description
1 Chain, Engine Timing
1 Guide, Engine Timing Chain
1 Tensioner, Engine Timing Chain
1 O-ring, Oil Pick-up Tube
1 Gasket, Engine Timing Cover
NOTE: Order two heater tube O-rings separately listed below for each repair.
Part Number Description
53013736AA O-ring, Heater Tube (order two per vehicle)
Each dealer
to whom vehicles in the recall were assigned will receive enough Engine Timing Chain Packages to service about 5% of those vehicles.

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Recall type:

Customer Satisfaction Notification - Customer Satisfaction Notifications are preventive in nature and involve warranty or customer satisfaction issues such as non-safety repairs. Chrysler will correct the problem, at no charge, even if the vehicle is out of warranty and you are not the original owner.

You can check if your vehicle is subject to the timing chain issue recall (or any other recall) by visiting the Chrysler website and entering your vehicle's VIN number. Visit: http://www.chrysler.com/en/mobile/webselfservice/

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We really want to thank everyone who wrote us, (Pietro), with their timing chain concerns. The engineering team has completed their work and the following statement has been released. If there are any questions, reach out to us on this forum as opposed to sending an email as that will be quicker.

Chrysler Group is launching a customer-service action to bolster timing-chain system durability in certain cars equipped with 5.7-liter HEMI® V-8 engines.

The decision follows an extensive investigation to determine the precise issue and appropriate remedy.
The investigation discovered the engine’s fuel-saving cylinder-deactivation technology may cause an adverse interaction with the timing-chain system. (Chrysler Group is unaware of any related injuries or accidents.) As a result, the Company will replace – at no cost to customers – the timing chains, tensioners and guides in certain vehicles built between Aug. 4, 2008 and July 10, 2012.

Affected are certain model-year 2009-2012 Dodge Charger and Chrysler 300 full-size sedans, and Dodge Challenger sport coupes. The scope is limited to vehicles equipped with 5-speed automatic transmissions and axle ratios of 3.06, 3.73 or 3.92.

Beginning this month, Chrysler Group will contact affected customers with instructions to schedule service appointments with their dealers.

Chrysler Group greatly appreciates the patience demonstrated by its customers while this issue was under investigation. The Company also values and shares the passion expressed on these pages by customers and fans alike.

Thanks,

DodgeCares
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Article: Timing Chain Failure on the Dodge Challenger – Ground Zero

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#2,626 ·
I think we've been around this before...yes, we know it is still a low percentage. However, for this kind of part, even "that" is abnormal. Snapping timing chains should be plain mythical, at best. They just shouldn't be happening, period. That's the weird thing about this.

No low percentage you can conjure up really gives the proper perspective on it. A topic like this shouldn't even exist (5 posts, then dead, at the most). That's where accepted norm should be on this.
THANK YOU. I can't believe this keeps coming up. 50% of cracked rocker claddings is BS, but who cares? We do love the car. But 2% or even .2% of catastrophic engine failures? I also still bought a Challenger, and an auto R/T at that, because that's what I wanted and the AutoStick exists, but this 270+ page thread didn't appear out of thin air or boredom.
 
#2,627 ·
More info from the 84, 000 mile failure:

"I drive a combination of highway & city about 50/50.
I have a Mopar CAI and Mopar cat-back exhaust.
I use a Predator tuner. In the summer I will run premium gas and tune, then revert back to stock and run regular in the winter.
I don't baby my car, nor do I put it through anything it wasn't designed to do.
I have not disabled the MDS and the car failed while cruising at highway speed.
Ther were no symptoms prior to the failure and it simply died in the same fashion as the OP's.
The dealership replaced heads, valves, chain, etc. and said they inspected pistons but found no damage. They also siad they pulled the oil pan to inspect for debri and found none.

The car has had dealership oil chages every 6000 miles (3000 for 1st change).
Anything else?
I am very curious to know if anyone has expierienced a second failure.
Also, if any of you have a proven email address to someone in Chrysler customer service, I'd like to question them on their stance going forward (ie: will they fully or partially cover a second failure once I'm out of warranty?)"
 
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#2,628 ·
#2,630 ·
Look at the first page: 30-40K may be the average, but people have broken their chains from 15K to 85K. We've investigated a lot of variables in this thread, but in the end the biggest one is the individual driver and his environment. Not having disabled the MDS doesn't mean that the car spent most of its time in that mode or in a way that caused destructive vibration and resonance.
 
#2,631 · (Edited)
84, 000 mile failure:

well you would think chains going at 15k, the car been ran hard specially coming out of MDS with lag causing vibration, causing the chain to break... seems like the chain needs to be more durable on the Auto's or the crank sprocket has moved causing the chain to stretch, either way not good!!!


The Bottom line: the Auto's are not designed properly having the MDS!!!
 
#2,641 ·
They are tough transmissions, no need to worry about that.
 
#2,640 ·
at minimum, I'm bumping my warranty up to 7yr/100K just in case this does become a problem for 2013's
down the road since my car won't be a high mileage daily driver but a weekend toy. my current car is over 2 yrs old
and I'm just under 5K. hopefully advancements have quietly occurred on the MDS related systems on these cars since the TC issue has came to light.
 
#2,642 ·
Once the 2013 tune is out we'll be able to go back to a mix of Drive and AutoStick.
 
#2,648 ·
I think I've read nearly every page on this thread once my Challenger stopped cold on the highway. All the symptoms lined up exactly with what others on this forum mentioned, and I just got the call from the dealer, broken timing chain. The best part is that I'm stranded 600 miles from home when it happened. At this point I'm still waiting to hear the details of what else was broken, if it was the tensioner.

I'll go over the details I've seen others post.

2010 R/T, 5-speed auto with mds. No mods at all. 43,000 miles. I do end up using mid grade or premium in the car for what it's worth. I do like to use the autostick a lot.

This is a daily driver for me and most of the driving is highway. I have a stretch of stop and go that I'm on a lot and at least once a week I'm in some heavy Detroit traffic. Sometimes I like to open the car up a little on the stop and go but nothing excessive.

The previous day I had a long drive from Detroit to Saint Louis. The failure happened without warning and at highway speed (60mph). I had just gotten onto the highway off the ramp and crested the top of a hill, just as I started to come down the hill I eased off the accelerator when I lost all power. I assume this is when MDS kicked on.

More details to come on what's broken. If anyone has any questions please feel free to ask.
 
#2,650 · (Edited)
I do like to use the autostick a lot.
What would you say is your percentage of AutoStick use? And is it safe to assume that you typically leave the car in Drive on the highway? Please keep us updated, and sorry to hear about your car, man. Does anyone get this sinking feeling with very new post like this?! :ugh2:

ETA: argh, too slow again...
 
#2,649 ·
Thanks for already providing so many details. And am really sorry to hear this! When you are driving the long freeway stretches, are you then usually in "D" or are you still using the autostick?
 
#2,651 ·
I'd be sinking if I had an automatic 2010 R/T, thats for sure....
 
#2,658 · (Edited)
I've been skimming this thread so forgive me for asking but is this just a 5.7 problem? Are the 6.1 and 6.4's autos in this mix as well?
The MDS models with VVT are suspect, so that leaves out the 6.1 (no MDS or VVT and an older, more solid chain). And I don't recall reports of SRTs down, but it could be that most don't have the mileage yet, or that the MDS programming is different and that saves them. Therefore so far it seems to be a 5.7 auto problem almost exclusively (raVenX keeps updating the list on page 1 and it's a great reference tool).
 
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#2,654 · (Edited)
>>>I do like to use the autostick a lot.

from dirkgently, statement he uses the paddles 50 - 50 or even close to it...
I assume "Nag1" is putting a very heavy load on this cheap timing chain specially with the MDS, on and even without the MDS, puts more of a load then say the 6 speed trans!!!


"""Sounds logical to me""""
 
#2,657 ·
>>>I do like to use the autostick a lot.

from dirkgently, statement he uses the paddles 50 - 50 or even close to it...
I assume "Nag1" is putting a very heavy load on this cheap timing chain specially with the MDS, on and even without the MDS, puts more of a load then say the 6 speed trans!!!


"""Sounds logical to me""""
In his only post DirkGently only states liking the AutoStick a lot - I think you read into it. I don't think that the transmission has anything to do with stress on the chain either. It could probably bear to be a little beefier, but as noted before the same chain seems OK in other cars. The current thinking is that the tensioner craps out and then the chain snaps. If harmonics are the cause, either a different MDS programming or a tensioner retrofit might do it. The guide shoe's material was changed, but we have seen that one fail too so that's clearly not enough.
 
#2,660 ·
If memory serves it has happened to at least one Charger. We may not know the full extent of the problem, though. But, yeah, the whole thing is puzzling.
 
#2,667 ·
From looking at this thread plus other LX sites I found a total of 5 Chargers/300s (MY 2009+) that have reported a broken chain. RavenX believes those are different failures. Those numbers do not compare with the over 30 Challenger failures. But I do think this might happen on these other LX/LD cars as well. For some reason though a lot less. So maybe under rarer circumstances this can happen on a 2009+ 300/Charger. AFAIK this has never been reported for a RAM or a Jeep GC. MDS is probably quite different there compared to the cars.

Couple of other things to keep in mind. I am sure in 2011+ cars (300 & Charger), the Pentastar has a much higher take rate than the Challenger where people want a V8 for the muscle car tradition. In 2009 they went through the bankruptcy. So not sure how many HEMI 300/Chargers they sold then and in 2010. Sure, they sell more 300s and Chargers but in 2009 and 2010 they were available with two different V6s as well.
All this is just my opinion.
 
#2,661 · (Edited)
>>>>>The MDS models with VVT are suspect, so that leaves out the 6.1 (no MDS or VVT and an older, more solid chain).


That is so true!!

now that you have reminded me about the 6.1, leaves me to one conclusion, the problem is Chrysler, should have never put out an Automatic with the MDS, and plastic tensioner!!! this car is not made and designed for it!!!


how many hi performance cars come with stick only that you know of besides camaro's ? reasons behind all this is components like the timing chains vvt and tensioner can not handle it...


Chrysler has a problem, we the people have to get together stand up for what is right and take action we have the right to do that!!! Don't listen to people when they say you can't win, thats BS!!! You need the right lawyer that is willing to fight for you and believe i have one...


***I'm already in litigation with Chrysler, but thats a different issue that i have with this car...
 
#2,662 ·
I won't blame Chrysler for the MDS as that's what many owners demand and it's a necessity in today's market environment. Hell, I even thought it was a good idea when I heard of it: it was like having my cake (a V8) and eating it (better mileage). Of course there's no free lunch and I did a 180 on this since, but it's here to stay and we're even lucky that this allows powerful V8s to be sold today.
All I would like the factory to do is come up with a fix. They probably never envisioned that this would happen during testing and they must be going over all their options to avoid a massive recall. It sucks with a capital 'S', but so far I think they've repaired all the cars under warranty. And at this point I think that the "we've never heard of such a problem" response is a line of BS, and it's OK, we know how that goes and we're grown-ups. Stuff happens. But eventually they have to make it right.
 
#2,666 · (Edited)
OK, I'm not THE authority on this or anything else Challenger, only a serial poster and known thread hijacker :)icon_biggrin:), but it seems that there's a compelling correlation between timing chain failure and MDS use. It's based on this evidence (although this is not positive proof) that I went ahead and bought an auto R/T myself. I'm hoping that it will look like Flat Top's!
Then the TC with 41,000 miles of beating the dog snot out of it with 8psi the TC looks perfect. Gears look perfect. Shoes had very little wear at all.
I could reuse it all. (wont)
Great info: MDS turned off + hard use = safe chain at the critical mileage. :thumbsup:
 
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