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  #701 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2012, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by randycat99 View Post
I don't believe that for a second. Going WOT in full v8 mode is going to magnitudes of order more stress on the hardware. That is every bit the scenario of each cylinder containing a fully potent air charge which will resist being squeezed to 1/10 the volume and then ignited to then push down on the pistons to make the full output of the engine. That kind of load laughs at what happens in mds with the throttle barely cracked open. Not only that, but you can count on the full engine output at work on the vehicle will be drastically changing the chain speed and any involved chain tension.
If you read every post in this thread, like I have, virtually all of the failures have been at hiway speeds under MDS function. If there were any that weren't, I don't recall them.
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  #702 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2012, 12:12 PM
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randyCat99

" Going WOT in full v8 mode is going to magnitudes of order more stress on the hardware."

NOT when the crank has 4 cyls working their asses off to pull the sealed up 4 cylinders thru, imagine the stress on that crank, which gets transmitted to the cam thru a sloppy Honda mini-trail chain whose tensioner has lost it's cam chain adjuster bolt...

Also, going WOT in DZ302 TransAm SBCs, BOSS 302s, 440 Six Paks, 426 wedges & hemis, 427-435 horse BBCs, 454-450 horse BBCs NEVER BROKE a SINGLE CHAIN, NASCAR, NHRA, IHRA, SCCA, etc, all but for the oem cam sprockets that came with the nylon teeth covers, which were ALWAYS replaced with pure steel parts...Someone MAY be able to document a chain break on one of those engines, only after ventilating the pan or breaking a rod, crank, or cam ...go ahead & TRY to find ANY standard aftermarket timing sets for any of those historic musclecar engines born at Daytona & Talladega that broke & CAUSED a catastrophic failure. More rare than hen's teeth....till now....
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  #703 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2012, 12:13 PM
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dj, thanks for posting. Please keep coming here and keep us up to date with your repair and dealership experience. I love my R/T and it only has 2k so far, but it is a daily driver and I plan on having it for many years, so how this plays out will determine if I remain a MOPAR customer, as I have been a Ford guy for 30 years...
My last Ford buying experience, actually the last two, have left me feeling like I needed to go home and take a shower, whereas this Dodge purchase was smooth and pleasant. OT, sorry about that.
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  #704 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2012, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by randycat99 View Post
magnitudes of order more stress on the hardware
You mean "orders of magnitude".

I'd be a little bit more cautious about that terminology. We don't wish to create the impression of hysteria.

Every night I pray to Jesus that this problem is limited to the automatic transmission cars and the crummy MDS system. Every night I go to bed smug in the knowledge that I absolutely KNEW this MDS system was going to suck. I bought a six-speed car. I would not have bought my car if it was an automatic.

All that smarty-pants stuff aside I still do not fully understand the mechanism of failure of the timing chain. The MDS imparts some manner of "vibration" which makes the timing chain "slap" against the tensioner and that makes the chain fail prematurely? I feel like ordering up the aftermarket timing chain and slapping it in there this weekend, rather than waiting around for my engine to be reduced to a pile of scrap metal.

My heart bleeds for all of those suffering through this problem.

At my age (52) I think this would just about kill me.
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  #705 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2012, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by rdfan21 View Post
dj, thanks for posting. Please keep coming here and keep us up to date with your repair and dealership experience. I love my R/T and it only has 2k so far, but it is a daily driver and I plan on having it for many years, so how this plays out will determine if I remain a MOPAR customer, as I have been a Ford guy for 30 years...
My last Ford buying experience, actually the last two, have left me feeling like I needed to go home and take a shower, whereas this Dodge purchase was smooth and pleasant. OT, sorry about that.
After reading this thread, and the ones on the other boards, it got me pretty worked up and concerned.

My car turns 4 next Wednesday, and it has never had a warranty issue of any kind with the dealer other than the hard disc drive crapping out the first week.

I just called both of the dealers I work with, and neither of the Service Managers had heard of this problem. Hopefully they never do.
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by HemiEd View Post
If you read every post in this thread, like I have, virtually all of the failures have been at hiway speeds under MDS function. If there were any that weren't, I don't recall them.
Yes, I understand that, and I don't refute that. I only refute the notion that stress on the hardware during mds should be where you find maximum stress on the engine. That defies all logic. The very fact that it seems to preferentially occur during low stress mds operation suggests there is more going on than just the "engine stress" theory. We want to really find out what is happening, right?...or just point fingers at easy targets which will turn out to not explain anything altogether? I prefer the former.
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:32 PM
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is the '09 warranty transferable??? I really doubt, but if so: FOR TRADE, 2012 R/T with 992 miles, better than new with resonator eliminators, filtered to atmosphere crankcase ventilation system, -0- oil going into catch can. 100% damage free, could park it on Dodge lot & you'd think it was BRAND new, no front license plate drillings..

"If you read every post in this thread, like I have, virtually all of the failures have been at hiway speeds under MDS function. If there were any that weren't, I don't recall them."

EXACTLY!! MDS is causing extreme load on the "timing set"....I can't give that collection of junk the dignity of being in the same category as a real timing SET. REAL aftermarket timing sets can go 200k & will never break, but lose some tension from wear, & lose performance due to valve timing imprecision. Similar to a new set of ignition points, never as good as day 1, always deteriorating. By the time those timing sets were worn out, the entire engine is ready for the machine shop & a set of forged pistons, while doing it. Most of my cars came with forged cranks & rods so the pistons & pins were the failure points first to appear.
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by randycat99 View Post
Yes, I understand that, and I don't refute that. I only refute the notion that stress on the hardware during mds should be where you find maximum stress on the engine. That defies all logic. The very fact that it seems to preferentially occur during low stress mds operation suggests there is more going on than just the "engine stress" theory. We want to really find out what is happening, right?...or just point fingers at easy targets which will turn out to not explain anything altogether? I prefer the former.
I hear ya. Keeping the exhaust valves closed, puzzles me.

I mentioned it in the form of a question in one of my previous posts, when cruising along in mds, then needing to mash the gas for a traffic reason, stuff can act kind of strange.

I have had it do it smoothly, also with severe hesitation, and one time it went into cripple mode, where I had to pull over and restart the car.

Those events can't be good on components operating at close to their max capability.

Unlike most posters on here, one of the features I love about my car is the MDS due to the amount of highway driving.
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Holeshot View Post
is the '09 warranty transferable??? I really doubt, but if so: FOR TRADE, 2012 R/T with 992 miles, better than new with resonator eliminators, filtered to atmosphere crankcase ventilation system, -0- oil going into catch can. 100% damage free, could park it on Dodge lot & you'd think it was BRAND new, no front license plate drillings..

"If you read every post in this thread, like I have, virtually all of the failures have been at hiway speeds under MDS function. If there were any that weren't, I don't recall them."

EXACTLY!! MDS is causing extreme load on the "timing set"....I can't give that collection of junk the dignity of being in the same category as a real timing SET. REAL aftermarket timing sets can go 200k & will never break, but lose some tension from wear, & lose performance due to valve timing imprecision. Similar to a new set of ignition points, never as good as day 1, always deteriorating. By the time those timing sets were worn out, the entire engine is ready for the machine shop & a set of forged pistons, while doing it. Most of my cars came with forged cranks & rods so the pistons & pins were the failure points first to appear.
They are transferrable, but it is no longer a lifetime if I remember correctly. I think it drops down to something more standard.
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:42 PM
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Let me correct a misconception, and statement in error:

"That defies all logic."
...corrected, SHOULD read...
"That defies all CONVENTIONAL logic."

MDS is FAR FAR from conventional, 4cyls pulling one way while 4 drag like 4 UNBALANCED anchors...
That imbalance IS imparting jerky action on the cam chain, I'd put a load of cash on the theory that this would NOT be a problem with a conventional timing chain that goes on tight, stays tight with no guides or tensioners. I'd go so far as to bet my new Chally on it, if I could afford another one right now...
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