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Audio, Video and other Car Electronics Anything that pertains to the interior electronics modifications such as stereos, A/V, lighting...not exclusive to the Challenger please feel free to share

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Old 11-11-2012, 02:43 PM
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Subwoofer swap

I have a 2012 RT with SGII. How much power is going to the stock sub and would that be enough to power a 10" sub in a box behind the back seat? Any recommendations? Thanks
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Old 11-11-2012, 04:26 PM
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I would think not but I'm not 100%..
ceri is a big audio guy he might know.. What kinda sub / watts / ohms


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Old 11-11-2012, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by AFDoc View Post
I have a 2012 RT with SGII. How much power is going to the stock sub and would that be enough to power a 10" sub in a box behind the back seat? Any recommendations? Thanks
I don't know the exact wattage going to the stock sub, but it's inadequate for an aftermarket subwoofer. I'd recommend one of two things. If you want easy, buy an amplified sub system, like a bazooka tube or an infinity basslink.

Those will get you a little something extra on the bottom end and aren't that difficult to install yourself.

If you want a more robust bottom end (even if you don't want a trunk pounder), then you'll want to step up to an aftermarket mono amplifier and a component sub. The breadth of options there is too big to handle in a forum post. If you don't want to dig in and do a lot of research then I'd recommend running out to your local car audio dealers and listening to some in a demo room. Then talk to a salesman (or better yet an installer) about what you're looking for. If you do want to dig in and do a lot of research then you'll want to register at a few car audio specific forums and then keep an eye on some of the favorite subs of the public. Read through user signatures and google their equipment. Read, read, read.

If you have any specific questions regarding the install or box design I'll be happy to help. I just wrapped up my sub install this evening, and my frontstage will be in the mail on Monday.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:42 PM
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Thanks Ceri. What I don't want to do is go through all the machinations/converter/cost of adding an amped sub coming off the stock wires and then run into problems. I thought if the stock amp was pushing enough for a 10" it would be straight-foward to connect the stock wires and run. If not, I think I'll stick with what I have. Thanks.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:36 PM
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You can do it, but it won't be what you're looking for, and you'll more than likely blow your new 10" sub by underpowering it. That's not set in stone, but as for what is relevant to you, I'd say don't do it. If you can find a small power requirement sub with a high sensitivity rating, you can give it a shot. You'd probably want to look to home audio for that. Aftermarket car audio subs usually have power ratings of at least 200 watts RMS, and sensitivity ratings under 90 db 1w/1m. They'll play on 40 watts RMS, but they won't get loud enough to make it worth the effort. Your stock 6x9s in the doors will play louder than the new sub because they have a higher sensitivity rating. I don't know what it is, but oem speakers always have a high sensitivity. Power handling, enclosure, and sensitivity are related through something called Hoffman's Iron Law of loudspeakers (if you're interested in reading into it).
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:28 PM
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I don't think he will blow it, he would have to get a seriously clipped signal from the stock amp to do so, which I doubt it could get. I'd say it's worth his effort to see if he can accomplish his goal. You also need to take into consideration it will be ran IB, so that greatly increases efficiency. There should be a breakdown of what the BA amplifier puts out exactly somewhere.
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Old 11-12-2012, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by the727kid View Post
I don't think he will blow it, he would have to get a seriously clipped signal from the stock amp to do so, which I doubt it could get. I'd say it's worth his effort to see if he can accomplish his goal. You also need to take into consideration it will be ran IB, so that greatly increases efficiency. There should be a breakdown of what the BA amplifier puts out exactly somewhere.
It's worth a shot if he's got a little cash, and doesn't mind possibly adding a small mono amp down the road if it doesn't work out that well on stock amp. I just think that the stock 6x9 door speakers are going to put out more output than a sub on tiny power. It's a question of sensitivity. Unless someone can find a sub rated 95+ db 1W/1m that is. Maybe a home audio sub. Something like this Goldwood with ~91 db efficiency and only 100 watt RMS handling would be a cheap enough sub to experiment with. Infinity make high sensitivity subs. If I had a stock sub channel I might play around with it.

There's no independent adjustment on the stock sub is there? He wouldn't be able to level match it other than boosting the bass through the EQ and then the 6x9s get involved too.

Warning: Technical. My point about blowing it is that in order to get it loud enough to compete with the 6x9s it would most likely clip the amp. Clipping, even under rated, will blow a sub. When it goes into square wave (clipping), not only is it less than good, it's actually bad. Instead of wattage converting into movement, it's all converted into heat. The sub is "stuck" up and then "stuck" down. Without movement, no forced convection (cooling). So more heat, and less cooling at the same time. Subwoofer specs aren't rated for that scenario. They assume clean power.
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Old 11-13-2012, 07:25 AM
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Lol, I like the technical warning. He is limited in how loud he can get it no matter what, the question is when does it clip and how much "clean" power is it seeing? If he could adjust the gain (assuming he can't) then I could see it blowing but I'm not sold.

Having the door speakers play just as loud might work to his advantage. Do we know where the roll off at? If they begin to roll off at 70 or 60 while the sub plays the low end, it could end up blending his sub into his front stage extremely well.

The only reason I am really behind this is because there is a lot of weird stuff that "shouldn't" work in theory in car audio, but it does. For example, all those guys doing direct speaker replacements with like 9 tweeters with that guy from California. I haven't heard it but everyone swears by it. If he can find the right solution here, it opens a lot of options for guys on here.
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by the727kid View Post
Lol, I like the technical warning. He is limited in how loud he can get it no matter what, the question is when does it clip and how much "clean" power is it seeing? If he could adjust the gain (assuming he can't) then I could see it blowing but I'm not sold.

Having the door speakers play just as loud might work to his advantage. Do we know where the roll off at? If they begin to roll off at 70 or 60 while the sub plays the low end, it could end up blending his sub into his front stage extremely well.

The only reason I am really behind this is because there is a lot of weird stuff that "shouldn't" work in theory in car audio, but it does. For example, all those guys doing direct speaker replacements with like 9 tweeters with that guy from California. I haven't heard it but everyone swears by it. If he can find the right solution here, it opens a lot of options for guys on here.
Well we all know that it's possible to clip the stock amp even with the stock head unit. I also assume that about the time the stock amp clips on the sub channel it's probably clipping on the front (like you said about it not being adjustable), so the question is easier than clipping. It's just, will it get loud enough to blend with the 6x9s. I'm going to guess that the 6x9s don't have a high pass on them. They probably just have the low pass like the 6 speaker BA system, so they're probably playing the sub bass too as best they can.

So we're just back to sensitivity being the key factor. A high sensitivity sub that works infinite baffle ("free air") is the best candidate. Too bad I don't have a sub channel because my infinity kappa perfect 10.1s are rated about 94 db 1w/1m and they're good free air (I can now say). I haven't been able to track down any higher than that with a few minutes of googling and the perfect 10.1s aren't being made anymore. They're a pretty good mid-level SQ sub. IB has brought out some good pop on the kick drum that wasn't there in my truck's ported box.

9 tweeters doesn't sound good. It can't. Anyone that says it does hasn't heard a good system. I doubt the best world class installers could come up with a system that lets 9 tweeters sound good, with an unlimited budget and all the test equipment they could ask for. Cancellation and multipath would just destroy the soundstage.
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:42 PM
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Those Kappas don't come in 8 do they? IF anything he could send P.S.I. an e-mail and have a woofer custom built.
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