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Canceled my Hellcat order today.

78K views 432 replies 112 participants last post by  2quik6 
#1 ·
It's time to vote with my dollars and show FCA that they have done nothing but drop the ball on the entire
Hellcat rollout. Their latest release just proves that FCA does not give a **** about the customer or sold orders
and they are going to chastise dealers who took sold orders at MSRP.

I emailed Bob and he got back me as quickly as always, within 10-15 minutes and he's sad that I had to go this
route but he understands. I really wanted to buy a car from Bob but it appears FCA is going to do anything in
their power do dick over anyone they can.

That's ok FCA, you have shown your hand and I will take my money elsewhere. Not sure what my next ride will
be, but it won't be anything you offer.

I won't be spending much more time on the SRT part of the forums. I will still participate in the off topic section
but I will likely be dumping my Toxic for another brand as soon as the weather clears up.


Good luck to all of those waiting and congrats to all of those who were fortunate enough to get a Hellcat and
not get bent over a barrel without lube.
 
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#180 ·
Just a quick recap of the facts is in order here:
1.)Tim K. said everyone who wants a hellcat will get a hellcat & its not a limited production vehicle.
2.) They developed a allocation method based on volume of SRT & other vehicles sold.
3.) Large volume dealers get larger allocation as long as vehicles are sold in 5 days.
4.) Most MSRP dealers do not represent a deliveey date or timeline, only that they will sell at MSRP and hold you place in the que until your name and the allocation comes up.
5.) Most that got on tbe MSRP lists knew it would be Long time but they would get one the way they wanted for MSRP eventually.
7.) Unless Tim K. & FCA are lying, all orders at MSRP would be filled eventually.
8.) The stealership association pressured FCA into changing the allocation criteria from favoring ethical volume dealers selling at MSRP to favoring thieving unethical low-volume dealers and punishing high-volume ethical dealers selling at MSRP.
Those are tha facts!
FCA sold all of us down the river so the theiving stealerships ger more to mark-up and we and our preferred ethical dealers get less!!
 
#182 ·
Don't leave Mopar because Tim K doesn't know WTH he`s doing....He is the guy in charge...He should have seen and estimated the demand for this car before production started....He green lighted that ugly azz `15 Charger (Sorry to people who like it, I tried but it`s just not right)....He think`s that 60% of Charger owners don`t know or care if the Charger is RWD....That may be true but anyone with any wisdom would know that you don`t go back to a FWD Charger (it doesn`t even need to be explained why)...

He is lucky that Ralph and SRT got the Hellcat program started or else Dodge would have almost nothing to bring excitement to the brand...

Granted Chrysler hired him and let him loose without a chain/unchecked but don`t sour on the whole brand because of one guys leadership...He probably won`t last long as CEO....

I say this because I saw your old Duster and you obviously have love for this brand and get the inspirational history of the brand.....

Don`t cheat yourself out of something you want because things didn`t go as planned...
Do what I did and find a dealer with a reasonable amount of orders in, order your car and forget about...I`m already feeling a little over the wanting a Hellcat thing, so when the car comes in I can make the decision then to buy it or not.....

I definitely understand your frustration and you are not brand loyal which I also understand but Mopar will continue to up the performance and refine the product after Tim is gone...
 
#183 · (Edited)
One other thing...Shortly after I purchased my 2010 Challenger SRT, the SRT team called me and asked what if anything would I like to see improved for my SRT...

I told him that "I think that being an SRT the car should have at least comparable performance to the GT500"....I said "I want a supercharger and more power"...

I`m sure many other owners said the same, therefore if Dodge (seeing the demand looming for the Hellenger) would have given present SRT owners first dibs, no one would have been pissed....
 
#184 · (Edited)
Toxic Hellcat Strategy, and the Redemption of Sins

From Blutiful: The Stealership association (evidently made-up primarily of low-ethics and by consequence low-volume dealers ) decide they deserve the HC allocation more than customers on lists to buy at MSRP. They evidently argued successfully to FCA they need and deserve the HC allocation more than the customers on waiting lists to buy from reputable dealers at MSRP. They NEEED to have them have them all on THEIR floor to generate floor traffic to down-sell customers to other vehicles, and so they could place HUGE mark-ups on them and sell them to the highest bidders. So now the theivin` dealerships get our cars to put on their floor at ADM and we get the shaft instead of a Hellcat ordered the way we want it at MSRP.

To Brett DiMichele and Challenger Talk:

I've just been an enthusiastic lurker here on the Challenger Talk Forum, made various comments, usually about colours, and first met Brett and his Toxic Orange 2011 392 on YouTube. His nice introductory video of that car contributed to sparking my interest in the progress of development of the 21st Century Dodge Challenger; demonstrating a very welcome rebirth of an American industry long mired in a dismal mediocrity of engineering that lacked excellence, and design that lacked taste, imagination, inspiration, and careful art.


I think the above quote accurately reveals the improper considerations that Dodge Marketing applied to the distribution of the Challenger Hellcat. The deeply interested buyer, who places such a weight of value on choosing and enjoying this artfully executed and historic piece of Americana should have been Dodge's first and only consideration.

Incentivizing and rewarding dealers, succumbing to the avarice of dealers hoping to take undeserved profits, or the nonsense that a Hellcat in the showroom would generate ancillary purchases are all indicative of a failure critical thought and a lack of decency shown to what is precious, the enthusiastic customer.

Unlike the former era the persons responsible are known to us, and we are willing to make of them objects of respect and admiration for work well done; but a friend or brother who has let us down digs a deeper wound and makes himself a subject of contempt, whose sins are long remembered.

A lesson here for Dodge, meet the passion and quench it when its hot, else you might find grown men getting reflective, rational, and objectively considering other qualities and alternatives.

Now Mr. Tim Kuniskis and his cohorts, who have also let down those imaginative engineers and creative artists who delivered the 2015 Challenger, can indeed and truly set about to make amends, by ending the long ill-conceived allocation paradigm and by fulfilling sold orders of the Hellcat based on renewed efforts to deliver the needed components, and their best estimates as to how many can be built within the strictures of CAFE.

A lesson from Muscle Car History, Autumn 1969, GM launches the LS6 Chevelle SS, demand exploded; did they withhold, collaborate with dealers to produce markup? No, they met customer orders, and wow it outsold the tamer version of the new 454, the LS5, 4,475 to 4,298. Remarkable. Now Dodge needs to show its true success and the admirable boldness of this next legend by selling an astounding number of them, and by deliberately endeavoring to protect their reputation and retain their true friends.

Mr. DiMichele, like a man intent on meeting his tastes, and rightly expecting to for the sacrifice of such a large expenditure; turned his fancy toward an ultimate composition, something that would thoroughly delight him, and be a sure investment: Sublime, and Laguna Sepia -a combination that Dodge's taste police had to reconsider- with the rightly complementing Brass wheels, and, open as it should be, to the glory of the Sky. A more than repeat customer, he used to own a 300 before Toxic 11, first in line, and Dodge snubs him, neglects his years of wallet emptying payments. Deflated and wronged one turns for renewal to new horizons and other satisfactions; the world is rich with colours and delights to the eyes of the righteous; the selfish and the sinner, the inconsiderate, his exultation will fail him, and Grace and Peace will withhold their embrace.

The Alternate General has been diligent, coming to the NY Show this April will be a new Alpha-Platformed Camaro. An aluminum intensive chassis and suspension, lightweight, balanced front to rear, shorter and more nimble; a high compression V8 delivering explosive amounts of power and torque at all increments of speed, yet delivering efficiency; and then a Supercharged ZL1 powerhouse of infinite thrust matched with an infinitely adjustable suspension, and an electronic limited-slip. American muscle becomes ultimate drivers car; Styled right? Coloured right? Sounds Rather Challenging.
 
#186 · (Edited)
Since day one it has been no secret from Dodge that the Hellcat was going to be released on an allocation basis. Absolutely no misunderstanding there. Also from day one, Toxic and others posting here have been praising this "Stand Up" guy Bob Frederick's. As I understand it, he is not a dealer and doesn't even work for Dodge, just has some past connections. So this "Stand Up" guy takes as many orders as possible with apparently no regard for the ability to deliver the cars. Business is good for him because his competition who are actually getting cars are marking them up with ADM (no historical surprise there). But the question for Toxic and others is, what were your expectations? Did you actually think this one guy, who has no 'direct connection' to Dodge was going to somehow fill YOUR order when everyone else was waiting? I think Toxic was simply the first to post here that he made a mistake and placed an order that he finally realized was not going to be filled. I think Bob Frederick's and others like him are who Dodge is referring to in their press release about unscrupulous 'dealers'. I think somebody here posted that he took over 350 orders. (Quote "So now we have a salesman (Bob), who is taking orders and promising delivery on cars. How many orders you ask? Over 350. So obviously no matter how big the dealership is, and how many they potentially can sell, NO DEALER is going to get 350 cars while equal dealers will get 4-5. Aint gonna happen." Quote) If that's even close to the truth, how long do you think it would take to fill that many orders from one source given the demand for the car? And after 6 months your impatient? There's 19 pages of drama here. A lot more orders will get cancelled in the near future, and it's not necessarily Dodge or FCA's fault.
 
#194 · (Edited)
HC is the latest, greatest and most powerful (not fastest) THIS YEAR. My heart is Mopar, always has been. That being said, Ford has thumped Chrysler in every way possible the past few years. Do you think the new Shelby won't continue the trend? My point is, another year, another champion. Wait till 2017. Is 1000 hp that far off? Yes, the current HP champion is awesome. But as George Patton said, all glory is fleeting. And this car just isn't worth the hassle. JMHO
 
#196 · (Edited)
Can't argue with anything you said Brett. It has been a cluster ....
As a serious contributor to the forum I'll be sorry to see you go. Time will tell what will happen with my order, and like you my sunroof hangs in the balance. I'm just hopeful that June 1st will start sunroof production per Resume Speed, June 2nd will give me an order update to include the sunroof, and June 3rd I'll get a VIN. In the meantime, who knows, lots of nice cars our there. Lots of places to spend your money.
BTW - I was quoting somebody else on the 350 number. Who knows?
Adios, Dude
 
#199 · (Edited)
LOL, I hate to say it but I have to eat crow. I did not think it would end like this. As it stands it seems no dealer could get more than about 50 Hellcats each (at best) by the end of the run (2017). So I am pretty much convinced I will never see mine at my current dealer who has more orders than that. They won't even tell me where I am on the list. I was treated so poorly by price gouging local dealers and screwed over so much that (like many) I went with an out of state order and had NO problem with a 2016 delivery. However, I don't think even that would happen at this point when you crunch the numbers of the allocation rules. Every which way I got screwed, from the greedy local dealers, by the Chrysler rules and from my out of state dealer (even if not on purpose). I'm mentality exhausted from the roller coaster ride, and no 'new' car is worth this much effort. There is no way I am going to start again with local dealers after how they treated me with their 'tactics' & gouging. Some of us will go to other brands, some will go to Scat Packs, and in my case, I will for now go back to the vintage ones I already own and save myself 70 grand when all is said and done. The only sad thing is I sold one of my Roadrunners to make garage space for and help fund my anticipated Hellcat. Until I can buy a Hellcat in a sane fashion I am out of this game. Thanks Dodge et al for a ride wilder than the car itself.
 
#202 ·
I'm with Toxic on this one.


Thought occurred to me: I've seen some companies give priority to loyal fans, allowing a pre-order phase before general public sale.


I wonder if they could have done that with the HC. Many of us here on the forum knew the HC was coming for years and were anxious to purchase. If there was a "preorder" phase then those that were knowledgeable about it(i.e. those that listen to RS and are on these forums) would have benefited from this and perhaps there would be less agony across the board.
 
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#204 ·
So you know me? You know what I would do? You know what any of us would do? You could make a lot of money in Vegas. My bet is you are a shill for the AIADA or some other dealer entity. Defending the actions that Dodge itself calls possibly criminal makes your argument specious at best. That's my two cents.
 
#207 ·
Well said Toxic. A free market does not mean "I can charge whatever the hell I want for this car because stupid, desperate consumers will pay it". Why do car dealer even list MSRP if it means nothing? There's a helluva difference between a free market and outright greed. The problem is, there's always someone out there who will pay it.
 
#214 · (Edited)
Not that I don't think it would be good to buy directly from the factory.
But unless you live close ,you might have to drive a couple of thousands miles + to get there.
If you pick It up in Canada ,what kind of red tape is involved to bring into the states?
Then if you have warranty work,and there's no dealers,where would you get warranty work done?
And if you buy direct,would dealers honor the warranty?
If you think about it,things you buy direct you have no middle man to honor warranty,like taking a non working TV back to Walmart.It is your responsibility to ship it back.Shipping a car back and forth would be quit expensive!
 
#215 ·
Not that I don't think it would be good to buy directly from the factory.
But unless you live close ,you might have to drive a couple of thousands miles + to get there.
If you pick It up in Canada ,what kind of red tape is involved to bring into the states?
Then if you have warranty work,and there's no dealers,where would you get warranty work done?
And if you buy direct,would dealers honor the warranty.
All good points, and for a typical car not sure how that would work out. However maybe for the couple of cars that dealers do more harm than good (z28,gt500,hellcat) maybe letting the factory handle the first stages direct for customer special ordered cars would not be a bad idea. Then a buyer would have the choice of waiting for a custom order or buying one on the lot for those that can't wait. It would also increase competition to keep pricing realistic. Ironically, what Bob Frederick was doing was basically this idea until FCA made his ilk look like the bad guy.
 
#216 ·
Well as far as buying direct...the way Tesla does it - they have actual stores in states where you would take the car in for warranty repair, or you buy from. The difference is, they are not franchises like all other car dealers. But part of Tesla as a whole. So if that was the way all cars were sold, you wouldn't be buying a car direct from Brampton etc, you would be buying from the dealership that is run by Dodge.

No difference really on the customer side of things, just on the political side of things.
 
#217 ·
Some brick and mortar businesses make sense, some just haven't adjusted to the new market. Having a business that repairs a certain brand of cars makes sense. However the sales end of dealerships is no longer necessary. Very few people need a trained professional to help them pick a car. The sales part of the dealership is no longer the money making part of the dealership anyway. If it weren't for market adjustments and the occasional uniformed person that pays way too much for a car it would probably be gone already.
 
#218 ·
The down side of this approach is that if the manufacturer is selling for MSRP, and that turns out to be a good deal on the Hellcat, what about when you want to buy an RT, or SXT? Those cars are going to be at MSRP too. Remember Saturn? No negotiations. It's the dealers that get those cars down under invoice and then apply factory rebates for the great deals you see sometimes. The dealers can and do ask whatever they want, I know it sucks, but that's just how it works. It's the consumers who decide to pay those huge ADM's on these cars that let the dealers know they can get it. This goes on with every new roll out of a halo car regardless of builder. Pretty soon that will all go away. Nobody cares a few years down the road when the car is no longer relevant. The only guy who feels it is the guy who overpays when it's time to sell it. But if you've got tons of cash, they probably don't care either.
 
#219 ·
Sorry, but if car sales were left to "direct buying only", and there weren't dealships, cars sales would probably be cut in half.


Buying is emmotional, and the "person to person" interaction makes it happen. That's why dealers are the way they are, and that's why they are still in business.


How many people are "just looking" at a car lot, and end up driving home something? That number is pretty big.


I've been on "that" side of the business years back, and nothing has changed.


As far a cars go, people buy from people, not a website or an order form.
 
#229 ·
Toxic did get his deposit back and as far as I can tell there was no advantage taken of him by Bob. In my opinion, he IS special. He is a customer. One who plopped 70k down for a product in good faith just to have the manufacturer change the ground rules after saying everyone who wanted one would get one. So he has good cause to be bent. FYI, it's Butt not but.
 
#224 ·
A lot of the anger and frustration being hurled at FCA may have more to do with some Dealers than with FCA alone.

I've been in the manufacturing & wholesale distribution business for almost 30 years. Our product is sold to consumers through retail dealers. I know a thing or two about rolling out new products to a dealer base, and delays that the consumer experiences are not always about the manufacturer sitting on his hands, so to speak.

There is always the possibility that some aspect of the manufacturer-dealer relationship impacts the manufacturer's ability, or willingness, to release goods to any given dealer first, and because such aspects may be confidential in nature----dealer doesn't pay the manufacturer's bills, or dealer's marketing or sales practices are out of bounds, for example----such that the manufacturer cannot state the true issue to the consumer out of discretion.

Also, many consumers believe that he who first makes a deposit is making a deposit directly to the manufacturer. This is not the norm in most industries where a retail dealer is involved---the dealer takes the deposit as part of the retail transaction, but that does not directly translate into that consumer's purchase going to the 'front of the line' at the manufacturing or shipping level. It can be as simple as the manufacturer receiving multiple orders for the item in question from its vast dealer base, and then that mfr must select which dealers to satisfy based on a wide range of factors and variables. In normal, day-to-day business, standard inventory planning allows supply to meet demand predictably...but when there is a super-hot new item, demand typically far exceeds demand, forcing allocations. No one likes allocations, as some or many will be dissatisfied in the short term. And manufacturers want to fulfill all orders as quickly as possible----they are in business to convert orders to reap that revenue, after all.

I sympathize with those who have made large deposits and believed, in good faith, that their money should talk. However, there may be more to the supply chain dynamics than meets the eye, and I question whether this is entirely an FCA fiasco or if there is more to it that simply cannot and will not be discussed publicly for purposes of honoring confidential mfr/dealer sourcing patterns.
 
#227 · (Edited)
There can never be a true free market economy. Some things always have been, and always will be regulated.
I don't mind the franchise system. Where else can you go, call the owner and his employees crooks, thieves, low down a$$holes, and then demand a discount on the product you want?
Ever try to buy a gun directly from the maker? It ain't gonna happen.
Ever try to buy a snowmobile directly from the manufacturer? It ain't gonna happen.
There are many, many items we can't buy from the manufacturer, and if we could...THERE WOULD BE NO DISCOUNTS.
Do you really think Chrysler is going to let you go to the factory, sit in, test drive, and spend hours with one of their employees, because you MIGHT be interested in their product? It ain't gonna happen.
If you buy a new vehicle directly from the factory, and it has a slight blemish in the paint, that they are going to pay the cost to have it shipped back so they can examine it? It ain't gonna happen.
There are some (Very few, compared to years ago) shady dealers. There are far, far more honest dealers, that just might happen to be someones Father, Mother, Little League coach, or Heaven forbid...friend! LOL
If Toxic cancelled his order, good for him. If he wants to buy a more expensive import, with far more expensive parts, service and maintenance requirements, and less performance, good for him. (Not really). We may not live in some ficticious free market economy, but we do live in a (mostly, but not if obama has his way), free country.
Enjoy what we have folks, the rest of the world sucks, compared to the United States of America!
The above is just my uneducated opinion...dis-regard if you wish. Have a nice day.
 
#228 ·
There can never be a true free market economy. Some things always have been, and always will be regulated...
The dealer network, in more efficient form, still exists in countries where consumers are free to buy cars directly from the manufacturer. Savings to consumers of several thousands of dollars per car are achieved, not by reducing dealer margins, but by reducing inventory costs as the system goes from a build-to-stock model to a build-to-order model.

Here is the summary of an economic study from the US Department of Justice's website:

"State franchise laws prohibit auto manufacturers from making sales directly to consumers. This paper advocates eliminating state bans on direct manufacturer sales in order to provide automakers with an opportunity to reduce inventories and distribution costs by better matching production with consumer preferences."

Read the complete economic study at the US Department of Justice:

Economic Effects of State Bans on Direct Manufacturer Sales to Car Buyers
 
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