Poll - What Would You Like To See Improved/Changed For The Production Model?

[Legion681]

Originally Posted by TriShield

Six-speeds are the modern standard in manual transmissions, nearly every car worth a damn has a six-speed manual, not a five-speed. Your argument for using less gears is like arguing that an automatic should still have three or four speeds. If the LXs had come with a four-speed they would have been lambasted in reviews for it, and for good reason.

A brand new car should have entirely modern features, that includes transmissions with the appropriate amount of gears. Especially today in the era of high fuel prices. I'm not complaining about using sixth in my GTO and getting 28mpg on the freeway with it.

You actually need to look beyond what other cars have and see what the real use of a 6th gear is. I highly doubt it that in US highways with speed limits at 55-65 a 6th gear is needed, even if you wanna get up to 110-120. Now, if you talk instead of using a Challenger in Germany while driving in the autobahn, fine you have an argument here (even though back in Europe I touched roughly 171 mph (on the tach) at least with my modded Ford Sierra Cosworth 4wd back in the early 90s and it had 5 gears...sure it was doing almost 7000 rpm and there a 6th gear would have been useful...).

As I said, if you read my post, I did not say that a 6th gear is absolutelly a waste of time and money, as I mentioned that for fuel consumption it can give a hand. But if fuel consumption is your thing, why buy a 425 hp muscle cars that weighs 4000 lbs ? Buy a Prius...
Having or not a 6th gear being a deal breaker, IMHO it's ridiculous...

[Legion681]

Originally Posted by TriShield

They have good reason too, weight is an absolute killer of acceleration, handling and braking. The less the Challenger weighs, the better it's going to feel and drive.

Weight is the common complaint I see online with modern muscle cars. If it's over 3,500lbs people get upset. If the Challenger weights 4,100lbs like the Chrysler 300/Dodge Charger, than it will kill sales for many people and they'll go to the Camaro which is almost guaranteed to weigh 3,600 or so.

The wheelbase on the concept car is nearly the same as the Pontiac GTO, and it weighs 3,700 officially. If the Challenger weighs more than that it will be a factor in swaying my decision to buy something else. I don't want to drive a car that feels like a fat pig oinking over the road.

Sure, I know like anyone else knows that weight kills acceleration + handling and it doesn't give a help in braking (especially fade is the issue, but not only), that's nothing new to anyone.

Now if you have to have a car that is 197 in. long and at the same time weighs 3500 lbs or less, you surely need to find alternative solutions that most likely will be quite expensive.
So, what do people want ? To spend less money and have the Challenger the way it is, or let's say have some 10-15k added and have extensive use of aluminum, carbon fiber and titanium in order to save some 500-600 lbs ? I am willing to bet that people prefer to save the 10-15k...

The Camaro has the same wheelbase, fine...though the Camaro concept is almost a foot shorter in overall lenght than the Challenger...people need to understand that this foot or so is not made of air, but instead is metal, plastic and whatever other material they employ...therefore it weighs more than a Camaro...
Make a Camaro the same lenght, not only same wheelbase, as a Challenger and chances are that it will weigh more or less the same...

If pure performance is your thing, then you are wasting time comparing the Challenger to a Gt500 or Camaro...you better go with the others...the Challenger is bigger, more going along the lines of a pure muscle cars...
Which is fine by me.

[Legion681]

Originally Posted by Challenger_Nut

3.

AMEN. Finally someone who understands how weight affects performance. Search my posts and you will see I have tried to make this point several times.

Yes horsepower will help E.T.'s. But anything a 425hp, 4100 lb car can do, a 425hp 3500lb car will do much better. I don't want the car for 1/4 mile sprints. I enjoy the curves too!

And what is wrong with wanting to have a sixth gear for better fuel consumption and less wear and tear on the drivetrain?

1) you don't need a rocket science background to understand what affects performance, trust me. But perhaps it takes a little bit more thinking when you need to know what you need to spend if DCX makes a Challenger that is 197 in long, has a huge engine and weighs 3500 lbs.
If you personally would like to commit to DCX to give them say 10-15k for each car produced with weight saving solutions (=lighter materials like aluminum, carbon fiber, titanium, etc. etc.), I can only say thank you.
I'd love to have a Challenger that weighs 3500 lbs, but I don't think it's feasible at the price they wanna sell it.
And people need to at last UNDERSTAND this...

2) There is nothing wrong wanting to have a sixth gear for whatever reason you might think. Heck, I'd love to have a F1 inspired semi auto gearbox in it...a' la SMG...
But when people say "If it doesn't have a SIX speed manual, it's a deal breaker" what I am arguing is that: sure it would be nice, one more gear for whatever purpose (the main one I can think of, is fuel consumption. Wear and tear ok...but if you do 70 on a highway in 5th gear instead of a 6th gear, I'd say the wear and tear is microscopical if any) is something cool to have.
But it's not absolutely necessary: guys, speed limits are 65 generally on highways...even if you do 75, 85, 95, 105 the real need for a 6th gear is not really there...
Sure it'd be nice to have it, but I can't agree with the presence of that gear being a "deal breaker". Understand now ?

PS: as said I owned two cars with decent power (M3s) and 6 sp manuals in Europe...the time you use the sixt gear is when you need to go at higher speeds in the autobahn...
For the USA, commuting on a highway or having the desire to shoot up to 100-110 doesn't warrant the need of a 6th gear...

[Challenger_Nut]

Originally Posted by Legion681

1) you don't need a rocket science background to understand what affects performance, trust me. But perhaps it takes a little bit more thinking when you need to know what you need to spend if DCX makes a Challenger that is 197 in long, has a huge engine and weighs 3500 lbs.
If you personally would like to commit to DCX to give them say 10-15k for each car produced with weight saving solutions (=lighter materials like aluminum, carbon fiber, titanium, etc. etc.), I can only say thank you.
I'd love to have a Challenger that weighs 3500 lbs, but I don't think it's feasible at the price they wanna sell it.
And people need to at last UNDERSTAND this...

2) There is nothing wrong wanting to have a sixth gear for whatever reason you might think. Heck, I'd love to have a F1 inspired semi auto gearbox in it...a' la SMG...
But when people say "If it doesn't have a SIX speed manual, it's a deal breaker" what I am arguing is that: sure it would be nice, one more gear for whatever purpose (the main one I can think of, is fuel consumption. Wear and tear ok...but if you do 70 on a highway in 5th gear instead of a 6th gear, I'd say the wear and tear is microscopical if any) is something cool to have.
But it's not absolutely necessary: guys, speed limits are 65 generally on highways...even if you do 75, 85, 95, 105 the real need for a 6th gear is not really there...
Sure it'd be nice to have it, but I can't agree with the presence of that gear being a "deal breaker". Understand now ?

PS: as said I owned two cars with decent power (M3s) and 6 sp manuals in Europe...the time you use the sixt gear is when you need to go at higher speeds in the autobahn...
For the USA, commuting on a highway or having the desire to shoot up to 100-110 doesn't warrant the need of a 6th gear...

Thank you "GOD" for setting me straight with your condesending attitude! Understand?????????????

Did you ever consider that they should not have made the car so big that it has to weigh 4100lbs? Then the issue of exotic materials would not be a consederation!

[MikeF]

Thank you "GOD" for setting me straight with your condesending attitude! Understand?????????????

Did you ever consider that they should not have made the car so big that it has to weigh 4100lbs? Then the issue of exotic materials would not be a consederation!
Thank you Challenger Nut, this guy is too full of himself to listen or care about what anyone else thinks. It's all about him, perfection is tough for the rest of us to understand. It seems like the BMW drivers here think that they pretty much know everything and have the duty to enlighten us mere mortals.
I agree completely, drop the size some, cut off pounds and put a 6 speed in it. The original E-bodys weren't behind the times, this one shouldn't be either. I think that 3700-3800 pounds would be acceptable to me. The great part about losing weight will be the chance to design in some of the original cars' sleekness and get rid of the 4x4 look of the prototype.

[Challenger4-TheWin]

i hope it has a spoiler at least as an option!!

[MikeF]

First thing, a 6 speed with at least the 6.1 motor then a good sized from air dam amd duck tail spoiler. I am assuming the weight will be less than the prototype too. For the performance versions maximum 18" wheels with good summer tires. I like the black hood with pins too, make that an option. A good exhaust is necessary too, side pipes like the T/A would be cool. And I almost forgot big brakes.
On the interior plain is best. Good non-power seats with lots of support, no nav system or anything like that and a base AM/FM/CD.
The more I see of the T/As, the better I like them. They weren't the fastest but they were better balanced and looked tough.

[Legion681]

Originally Posted by Challenger_Nut

Thank you "GOD" for setting me straight with your condesending attitude! Understand?????????????

Did you ever consider that they should not have made the car so big that it has to weigh 4100lbs? Then the issue of exotic materials would not be a consederation!

Anytime my disciple...go and spread the gospel now...

Did I ever consider they should have not have made the car so big ? Sure.
But there is one little problem: they did.
Now your nickname is Challenger_Nut ... I believe your nick says it all, right ?
You must love this car, like I believe everyone else in here does...
So, what do you want: a 197 in. Challenger or no challenger at all ?
If you are indeed a ... Challenger nut, I believe the answer must be yes you want a Challenger, am I correct ?
If that's not the case, well posting here might just be wasting your time then. But if that is indeed the case, you gotta deal with what DCX is going to produce: a 197 in. Challenger.

And in that case, a 197 in. Challenger that will cost more or less like a Mustang will never ever be a 3500 lbs car unless DCX puts it on a ... "diet", by using more expensive, lighter materials.
If they'd do so, people here would be complaining about the cost of a Challenger...seen that it will be reasonably cheaper, then they complain about the weight of course...It does NOT take a lot to understand that you can't have both (=a super light car at a reasonable price) at the same time ! DCX is not a non profit organization...they need to make a profit in order to exist...if you want an affordable muscle car, you have got to compromise on something ! Is it so hard to understand, come on...
Now there are even people that say that they would never buy a Challenger because it doesn't have a 6th gear, even if chances are that they will never (or at least extremely rarely) reach a speed that needs the use of a 6th gear.

I remember posts of lots of people that were begging DCX to produce the Challenger...everybody more or less knew that it wasn't going to be a featherweight...and still people were here longing for an announcement confirming the decision to build this wonderful car...
Now that it's finally confirmed, people seem to find all silly excuses not to buy it (boohoooo it's 197 in and it weighs 4000 lbs instead of 3200...booohoh it only has 5 gears, now when I am doing 80 on the highway my engine rpms will be 2800 instead of 1800...).
Is this the type of loyalty that this type of people are showing to DCX now that they gave us what we wanted ?

I am happy that I will have the chance of buying it and I am still loyal to this great car...all the ones that instead change mind like they change underwear are better go buy a GTO or wait for a Camaro, I will not miss them.
Talk about loyalty, uh ?

And now if you wanna be sarcastic about the way I react when people abandon on a millisecond something that they hollered for months to have produced, go ahead, I don't care, but don't come preaching to me, no thanks.
I say THANK YOU VERY MUCH DCX FOR DECIDING TO PRODUCE THE CHALLENGER, THANK YOU !
and please don't listen to this type of people, they wouldn't be happy even if you decided to give them a Challenger as a present, at zero cost.

[Legion681]

Originally Posted by MikeF

Thank you "GOD" for setting me straight with your condesending attitude! Understand?????????????

Did you ever consider that they should not have made the car so big that it has to weigh 4100lbs? Then the issue of exotic materials would not be a consederation!
Thank you Challenger Nut, this guy is too full of himself to listen or care about what anyone else thinks. It's all about him, perfection is tough for the rest of us to understand. It seems like the BMW drivers here think that they pretty much know everything and have the duty to enlighten us mere mortals.
I agree completely, drop the size some, cut off pounds and put a 6 speed in it. The original E-bodys weren't behind the times, this one shouldn't be either. I think that 3700-3800 pounds would be acceptable to me. The great part about losing weight will be the chance to design in some of the original cars' sleekness and get rid of the 4x4 look of the prototype.

MikeF...
some food for thought for you...

First read my reply to Challenger_Nut.

After that:
it is NOT a matter of listening or caring for what other people say. I wish that DCX would produce a Challenger that would cost 20k, offer 600 hp, have a DSG gearbox, weigh 2000 lbs and handle like a Cayman S. Oh boy would I love that ! Wouldn't you ?
But then there is a little thing called reality.
And the reality is that DCX, in order to make a business case for the Challenger (and therefore deciding to produce it), had to use a modified version of the LX platform and existing engines, transmissions, etc. etc so that they could cut costs dramatically...
If they had to produce a total new platform only for the Challenger, do you think they would have decided to produce it ? I don't think so...
The platform used is not for a medium size vehicle, it's the one used for Chargers, Magnums and 300s: did you happen to notice that they range in lenght from 197 in to 200 in ? Did you notice that the most powerful models of these three cars weigh more than 4000 lbs ?
What in the world would make anyone even have the slightest hint of a belief that a Challenger would have weights and dimensions similar to a Mustang or a Camaro ?
In a dream, that might have been possible, in reality NO. So why on earth some people that populate this forum are still busting chops about the weight ? Get with the program people, it was sure from the beginning that the Challenger would have not been a light car !
Now I don't pretend to be the "enlighted one" but for sure I can 1) use my brain 2) be quite logical about things.


"Drop the size some, cut off pounds and put a 6sp in it":
well besides the 6sp which I don't think ought to be a headache for DCX (but I repeat...in 99.99 % of the possible usage of a Challenger, it's not needed), for the rest, dropping the size and cutting off weight, I would like to know if you want to commit yourself to pay for the costs of developing a new, much shorter platform purely for the Challenger and pay as well the extra cost associated with using weight saving materials like aluminum, carbon fiber and titanium.
MikeF, we are not talking about peeling a banana here...
It's an investment of billions of dollars for DCX...can't "drop the size and cut off pounds" like you were peeling one of those delicious yellow fruits...
Doesn't this seem logical to you ?

Don't like it ? Don't wanna accept it ? Jump ship. No reason to whine now that finally DCX gave us the car we wanted.
Sometimes I think that for all the people that, now that we finally got the announcement that the Challenger will be produced, can't find anything but criticism for DCX and the Challenger, that DCX would have decided against producing it. You don't deserve it.
If weight is the issue, why aren't you posting at some Corvette forum ? Or some other exotics forum, anyway...
I think the Challenger is a great car (probably the one that is most true to the idea of a real muscle car), I am staying in and I am gonna buy one.
I have been one of those asking for it, sending emails all the time to DCX, defending the Challenger in various forums and car websites, participating in online polls: I knew what we were gonna get, the signs were absolutely clear.
Clear to probably the vaste majority of people, excepted a few...You seem to belong to those few. Now that I showed you my point of view, do you see what I mean ?
I hope so.

PS: also, what is this obsession with weight ? Sure it hinders acceleration and many other things, but are you a professional drag racer ? If so just buy one and gut it, you will surely drop the weight quite a lot. But if you aren't a pro, if you want to have ABS, Trac Control, A/C, and all those nice little things that improve your level of comfort and safety in a 197 in car, you are going to pay for it in some way. And that way is WEIGHT.
PPS: the comment about BMWs is rather silly. The ones I owned (a couple of M3s) were great cars, like BMW many other manufacturers offer great vehicles. I had the luck to own cars of all sorts and all brands...and I enjoyed all those experiences...
You gotta a problem with that ? Bah...

[moparnutswife]

OK, OK, KIND OF SOUNDS LIKE "THE SKY IS FALLING"....LOL

So, here are my questions......what color, what engine, and what tranny????

Limited edition.....if so, what would it be???

I heard V8 only.......and low production numbers......that only means $$$$$$$...

As you all know from previous posts

PLUM CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! V8, Six speed, white interior would be cool-(literally).....is what I want!!!