Engines 6.1 Hemi vs. 6.2 LS3

[oxidizr]

Originally Posted by 69Chrgr

You probably lifted those from a GM forum. I find that hard to believe. If you saw the "Greatest Musclecar Engines of All Time" on SpeedChannel, the Bowtie came in 3rd behind the Ford 427. The 454 was no match for the 427 Ford, much less the 426 Hemi.

Here is the exact thing i was talking about ... you are comparing the 426 of yesteryear to the 5.7/6.1 HEMI today ... there is little or no mechanical resemblance. As you even quoted me, I said:

"The new HEMIs are not what the old HEMIs were ... as much as I might be labeled a GM "fanboy" the 426 HEMI has its place and will always have its place as one of the most desirable motors of yesteryear."

I drool over the SOHC ford motors of the 60's and the Hemi 426 is a beast as i already stated ... BUT these are not the motors we are talking about. Jump back on the discussion topic we are talking about, anyone in their right mind would have troubles contesting the motors of the past BUT we are talking about the 5.7/6.1 Hemis of today.

Information Sources: The numbers for the HEMI info came from INDY cylinder heads (a HEMI specialist) and the GM LS6 numbers are from my Superflow1040 bench and rest are quoted from Lingenfelter performance (a LSx specialist.)

Don't take it personally, I honestly don't understand your hostility, we are discussing the data ... please feel free to post your data and your sources.

[SilverFish]

Originally Posted by 69Chrgr

Yeah, you're probably right. GM dominates all things. You ought to put an LS in that early fish. You'd be happier.

I was actually thinking about a GM crate 502................

Thanks for the sources oxidizr, always enjoy the education.

[69Chrgr]

Originally Posted by SilverFish

I was actually thinking about a GM crate 502................

Thanks for the sources oxidizr, always enjoy the education.

That would not be much of a loss anyway. Those are the ugliest of the A-bodies. It should be right at home parked in front of a trailer house next to a Camaro and 72 model washing machine.

[ColdSRT]

I know the chevy motor has a better following and more aftermarket parts but the modern hemi motors have gained a great following and it gets better almost daily. When comparing the two motors in question when not considering aftermarket support the hemi wins in my book. More power with less displacement. Also the guys at allpar said that with the 6.1 and a six speed that 26 mpg highway was easily achieved. So that takes the gas mileage off the table. Also to the best of my knowledge the modern hemi motors given the same cubes the modern motors are more efficeint. That is what we should be judging motors by. Who can build the most power with the least cubes.

[oxidizr]

Originally Posted by ColdSRT

I know the chevy motor has a better following and more aftermarket parts but the modern hemi motors have gained a great following and it gets better almost daily. When comparing the two motors in question when not considering aftermarket support the hemi wins in my book. More power with less displacement...Also to the best of my knowledge the modern hemi motors given the same cubes the modern motors are more efficeint. That is what we should be judging motors by. Who can build the most power with the least cubes.

In that comparison, they are so close its hard to say there is a definite winner:

The 6.1L Hemi (425) $6,950 market / $10,250 retail

By math: 6.1L = 372.2 Cubic Inches making it a 1.141 HP / cu in (425 hp / 372.2 cu in)

In actuality the 6.1L is a 370 Cubic Inch motor (Mopar Performance Crate 370 / 6.1L ) making 1.148 HP / cu in (425 hp / 370 cu in)

At a cost of $6,950 that equates to $18.78 / cu in or $16.35 / HP

The 6.2L LS3 (430/436 HP) $6,195 market / $9,794 MSRP
By math: 6.2L = 378.3 Cubic Inches making it a 1.136 HP / cu in @ 430 HP or 1.152 HP / cu in @ 436 HP

In actuality the 6.2L is a 376 Cubic Inch motor (GM Performance LS3, 6.2L Crate Engines) making 1.143 HP / cu in @ 430 HP or 1.159 HP / cu in @ 436 HP

At a cost of $16.47 / cu in or $14.40 / HP @ 430 HP or $14.20 / HP @ 436 HP


... And these numbers only hold true if we believe the 6.1L is 425 HP motor and the 6.2L LS3 is a 430/436 HP motor.

Having seen a multitude of these cars on my dyno I can say I have seen 370-375 RWHP from both 6.1L 5 speed Autos and 6.2L 6 speed Autos completely stock in good weather and almost 390 RWHP from a 6.2L Manual C6. Bottom line is that this equates to a flywheel rating near 450 HP from both.

What does it all mean?

They are both within 6 cu in (370 vs 376) of displacement, within $750 (6,950 vs 6,195) of total cost, within 0.005 HP in efficiency rated at HP / cu in (1.148 vs 1.143) and within $2.40 / cu in or $1.90 / HP. Seems like a toss up to me ... what's your brand of preference or which has the best aftermarket or OEM support.

Originally Posted by ColdSRT

Also the guys at allpar said that with the 6.1 and a six speed that 26 mpg highway was easily achieved. So that takes the gas mileage off the table.

As far as MPG, the manual Vette 6.2L gets EPA 16/26 and the auto gets EPA 15/25 and the Challenger auto gets 13/19 for the auto and the manual at gets a nice boost to 14/22 (motortrend). Skip shift sucks and both companies cheat the EPA scores with it... I hope the SS Eliminators work on the Dodges as they do on the GMs. SS saves you on the gas guzzler tax but its annoying to drive with.

LOL more info to ponder.

[S TX CHALLENGER]

Hey maybe we can all be friends if and when Chrysler and GM do decide to merge as the talks are being rumored. Oh well all things considered I rather merge with GM than with Ford any day. LOL

[acx]

color me shocked that a vette at what 7-800 pound slights is rated for more mpg...

let's talk apples to kiwi fruit lmfao..

either way I managed 25mpg in my challenger driving leisurely on a recent highway trip of about 100 miles.

[oxidizr]

Originally Posted by acx

color me shocked that a vette at what 7-800 pound slights is rated for more mpg...

let's talk apples to kiwi fruit lmfao..

either way I managed 25mpg in my challenger driving leisurely on a recent highway trip of about 100 miles.

True, its a bad comparison but MPG is based on the vehicle the motor is placed in and there is no other chassis that runs the LS3 ... yet. The G8 GXP should make for a nice comparison when it hits the road.

[ColdSRT]

Originally Posted by oxidizr

In that comparison, they are so close its hard to say there is a definite winner:

The 6.1L Hemi (425) $6,950 market / $10,250 retail

By math: 6.1L = 372.2 Cubic Inches making it a 1.141 HP / cu in (425 hp / 372.2 cu in)

In actuality the 6.1L is a 370 Cubic Inch motor (Mopar Performance Crate 370 / 6.1L ) making 1.148 HP / cu in (425 hp / 370 cu in)

At a cost of $6,950 that equates to $18.78 / cu in or $16.35 / HP

The 6.2L LS3 (430/436 HP) $6,195 market / $9,794 MSRP
By math: 6.2L = 378.3 Cubic Inches making it a 1.136 HP / cu in @ 430 HP or 1.152 HP / cu in @ 436 HP

In actuality the 6.2L is a 376 Cubic Inch motor (GM Performance LS3, 6.2L Crate Engines) making 1.143 HP / cu in @ 430 HP or 1.159 HP / cu in @ 436 HP

At a cost of $16.47 / cu in or $14.40 / HP @ 430 HP or $14.20 / HP @ 436 HP


... And these numbers only hold true if we believe the 6.1L is 425 HP motor and the 6.2L LS3 is a 430/436 HP motor.

Having seen a multitude of these cars on my dyno I can say I have seen 370-375 RWHP from both 6.1L 5 speed Autos and 6.2L 6 speed Autos completely stock in good weather and almost 390 RWHP from a 6.2L Manual C6. Bottom line is that this equates to a flywheel rating near 450 HP from both.

What does it all mean?

They are both within 6 cu in (370 vs 376) of displacement, within $750 (6,950 vs 6,195) of total cost, within 0.005 HP in efficiency rated at HP / cu in (1.148 vs 1.143) and within $2.40 / cu in or $1.90 / HP. Seems like a toss up to me ... what's your brand of preference or which has the best aftermarket or OEM support.



As far as MPG, the manual Vette 6.2L gets EPA 16/26 and the auto gets EPA 15/25 and the Challenger auto gets 13/19 for the auto and the manual at gets a nice boost to 14/22 (motortrend). Skip shift sucks and both companies cheat the EPA scores with it... I hope the SS Eliminators work on the Dodges as they do on the GMs. SS saves you on the gas guzzler tax but its annoying to drive with.

LOL more info to ponder.

I think you are talking vette numbers here. I see why because it suits your piont and really was the base question by the OP. I think the tone here is camaro vs challenger and not just the motors. Top line output for the 6.2 in the camaro is supposed to be 420/408 so when making a basic power comparison for the top line motor in each car the 6.1 wins. By a small margin yes but more power from less displacment takes the W unless your talking about a version of the motor that is not in the car that is our most direct competitor. The camaro still has a weight advantage. That I feel will be on peoples minds much more than the hp vs dollar vs cubic inch math. The 5.7 challengers could say they make 390 hp just because the 5.7 in the new ram does but it is only half true.

[RudySRT8]

Camaro specs. are out ...

Manual 422 HP(SS)
Auto 400 HP (SS)

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