Opinion on ethanol

[pwr2tow]

I can not find 89 octane fuel around my area that does not have 10% ethanol blended. Since my friend has worked in the oil fields and fuel related area for 30 years I tend to beleive him about high octane fuels not being high octane at the pumps since fuel degrades and you don't know how long that high octane fuel has been sitting in the station tanks.

I know 87 and 89 octane gas is used primarily so that gas is exchanged rapidly assuring a consistant number.

What's your opinion on ethanol 89 octane for performance results. The owners manual says it fine to use in my auto transmission Challenger but I would like your experience as to performance results in better or worse 1/4 mile times? Does ethanol negative effect timing issues in these computer controled cars?

[Curtlf]

NO. Your car and others are tuned/programmed to run on up to 10% ethanol with no adverse effects. Ethanol has higher octane than gasoline and a charge cooling effect as it atomizes.

[neidan]

From a factory tune stand point the ECU will cut timing to compensate for knock. That is what you need octane for. Ethanol will rase octane, but it contains less energy per volume than pump gas. Therefore 91 no ethanol will give you better performance than 91 with 10% ethanol.

It's true you cold build a fast car to run on 99% ethanol, because you could use crazy compression number and pour ridiculous amounts of fuel into it, but that won't work on a car such as ours.

If you want 'performance results' and especially if you are gong to tune for them, you will need as high of octane with no ethanol as you can get. Sunoco has a place on there site that will let you find 100 race in your area. I'm lucky I can still get 93 no ethanol in many places, and 91 is common.

There are a lot of threads on the net about this. Try Hot Rod or engine builders etc.

[Hal H]

Originally Posted by pwr2tow

I know 87 and 89 octane gas is used primarily so that gas is exchanged rapidly assuring a consistant number.

Many systems at the fuel stations blend 87 & 91 to achieve the 89 octane at the pump.

That way the tanker trucks can get by with two tanks of each grade to make their deliveries w/o the need for additional trips for a 3rd grade of fuel.

While today's cars will run on the E-10 blends, you will notice a drop in mileage in the range of 10-15%.

Go to an area with 100% gas and observe the mileage...ethanol was a ruse that has little benefit, other than an oxygenate for winter fuel blends to reduce smog, improve vaporization and driveability in cold(er) weather.

A lot of areas get winter air inversion conditions, and the air quality is worse during that time of year.

[GSMC]

All we have around my area is the 10% ethanol blend too. As mentioned, less energy per gallon so you use more gas......it doesn't store well at all - (That's why Sta-Bil came out with thier new "Marine blend" of gas stabilizer- just for ethanol).

The owners manual on my boat recommends to stay clear of it if possible due to it's uncanny ability to absorb water and dry out rubber seals over time (due to the ethanol)

Also as Hal said, reduces smog (like there's not enough emissions crap on my engine to take care of that already). I think It's crap, and I'd go out of my way if I could to fill up on anything but the 10% stuff, but no one has real gas close to where I live.

No real timing issues the ECU can't compensate for, and performance will be roughly the same - you'll just use more of it.

[neidan]

Originally Posted by GSMC

:
No real timing issues the ECU can't compensate for, and performance will be roughly the same - you'll just use more of it.

Your performance will suffer... It may not matter much if your not racing, but it simply can not be as good. Sorry.

It stinks IMHO, it's not even any good for the environment.

Where about do you guys live, I'll see if I can locate some fuel around there?

[pwr2tow]

This whole ethanol thing is really screwy. Some people I talk to say it will give better performance since there's more oxygen which will make the computer think it's running lean so it dumps a smidgen bit more fuel in.

Others say it decreases fuel milage. I guess that would be true because of my sentence above.

Why then when I use ethanol I seem to get better fuel milage. I hand calculate every tank in all my vehicles, miles driven by gallons used. Performance wise I'm not sure either way yet.

Guess next spring I'll have to do some more experimenting with 1/4 mile E.T.
Dam these North Dakota winters. Thank God he has delayed so far.

[Hal H]

Originally Posted by pwr2tow

This whole ethanol thing is really screwy. Some people I talk to say it will give better performance since there's more oxygen which will make the computer think it's running lean so it dumps a smidgen bit more fuel in.

The engine managment system (using 02 sensor readings) is looking for the stoichiometric ratio that will produce complete combustion with the lowest HC / NOx / CO emissions.

Too lean (high NOx) and it enriches to bring the too hot 02 readings back to normal...too rich (high HC / CO) and it will lean out to get 02 readings back up to normal operating temperatures.

Generally, a high oxygenate content will result in the managment system running richer and consequently more fuel consumption. In the old days of MTBE and other oxygenates, fuel milage was lower with the 'winter' fuel blends. Ethanol additives tend to behave the same way.

[pwr2tow]

Originally Posted by pwr2tow

Why then when I use ethanol I seem to get better fuel milage. .

Correction needed: I meant to say, "Why then when I use ethanol I seem to get the same MPG or better fuel milage."

I would lean more toward the same MPG than better. Maybe that's why only a 10% blend here, I assume along with other related results from using too high ratio of ethanol.

[Alpine Zang]

To put it simply ethanol SUCKS