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3.6L engine catch can pic please

29K views 47 replies 14 participants last post by  Bodycount 
#1 ·
Hey guys I need your help. Can someone with a catch can on their 3.6 post pics of the tube lines connecting from the catch can to the pcv and intake? I just need to see how it's hooked up and what I need to remove.

Thank you!
 
#2 ·
You read my mind. I bought a new one for my Scat Pack, and want to install my old one on my wife's Charger SXT. I THINK the PCV ports are at the rear left of the engine, connected by a metal tube. I'll be checking back to see if anyone hooks you up. I belong to a Charger forum, and asked this same question. If I get some info, I will pass it on.

One thing I do know, the fender location near the battery will be required.....I think.
 
#3 ·
Not a Challenger installation (its a Grand Cherokee/Durango), but here's where the PCV tubing goes on a Pentastar:



View with the engine removed, the hard line with the red arrow is what you need to replace with a catch can and associated hoses:
 
#4 ·
Wait, I gotta remove the engine?


:fight:


HA! Anyways, thanks for the photo, I wanted to be sure before I started yanking stuff. The 3.5L were different I think, it looks like one of the hoses went clear over to the other side, near the air cleaner.
 
#6 ·
Probably depends on the catch can. I know some of them have a gravity trap and then a filter element that has to come after the gravity trap. Flow is from the PCV valve at the back of the valve cover, through the catch can, then to the intake. So make sure the hose from the valve cover goes to the "inlet" of the catch can if its marked.
 
#7 ·
I responded to a thread very much along these same lines a year or so ago with pictures and everything, so you can probably find it by searching the SE/SXT specific forum for posts with keyword "PCV" and specify "Nuke" as the author.

I'd find it myself, but I gotta start packing stuff up for the commute home, which should be a crappy one today seeing as the roads are now rain-slicked and likely already backed up from fender-benders every few miles. Ugh, I HATE TRAFFIC JAMS!!!
 
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#11 ·
Here's some pics from the homemade CC I had mounted on my 3.6. You should be able to use these to help tell what's what on yours when you go to plumb the CC into the PCV line:

(showing PCV line coming off PCV valve on back of valve cover, ready to splice in CC)
Auto part Engine Fuel line Vehicle Car


(same as above but with some arrows indicating PCV valve & air flow direction)
Auto part Engine Fuel line Vehicle Car


(pic of the same spot but with CC spliced in and mounted)
Light Auto part Automotive lighting Headlamp Vehicle


(pic of the whole setup so you can see the route of the hoses and such)
Engine Auto part Vehicle Car Automotive engine part


(same pic but with some scribbly drawings I did to try to help identify various parts/places)
Engine Auto part Vehicle Car Automotive engine part
 
#12 ·
Here's some pics from the homemade CC I had mounted on my 3.6. You should be able to use these to help tell what's what on yours when you go to plumb the CC into the PCV line:

(showing PCV line coming off PCV valve on back of valve cover, ready to splice in CC)
View attachment 611234

(same as above but with some arrows indicating PCV valve & air flow direction)
View attachment 611250

(pic of the same spot but with CC spliced in and mounted)
View attachment 611242

(pic of the whole setup so you can see the route of the hoses and such)
View attachment 611266

(same pic but with some scribbly drawings I did to try to help identify various parts/places)
View attachment 611274
You mentioned a homemade catch can, would you share how you made your CC please?
The install looks nice and clean!
Thanks
 
#16 ·
Back when I first start searching around for aftermarket CCs that would fit my 3.6 (this has been several years ago now), there were not many available. I think maybe two different ones total, but both of them had to utilize an aluminum bracket with a hole in it on the front of the engine, which is I'm guessing what you are referring to.

I don't know if there are more options as far as different brands now for the 3.6, but it sounds like they never did find a better place to mount them...or they never did find a spot that they could manufacture hardware to enable easy mounting of it, that's probably the better way to say that.

That's a shame too, because I wasn't keen on mounting it there in front, it seemed to me like it would look out of place every time I opened the hood. But if that's where they specify their CCs have to be mounted, I guess you have to go with it.

Actually, I can't remember if I've ever seen a pic of one mounted there on anyone's car. So other than the drawings in the instruction manuals back in the day, I don't guess I have seen one mounted up on the front of the engine like that. I'd like to see what they look like in real life...Do you have a pic of yours you could share that shows it mounted?
 
#17 ·
Nuke, Thank You very much for the detailed description about how you made your CC!
I love to tinker in the garage, I can't count how many times I've made something rather than buy it new. I made my own CAI for the Challenger, bought a piece of aluminum, made a pattern, took a few tries before it fit right.
I plan on following your idea for a CC! Thank you!
 
#18 · (Edited)
Yeah, I don’t want to dissuade anyone from trying this sort of project if they were considering it. It’s certainly a viable option for a CC for these engines IMHO. But I did want to point out the main disadvantage to going the homemade route was its homemade-ness. Meaning, there are no plans or parts already assembled, and so arriving at the final result could take more time, effort, and money than what it’s worth.

But even that is relative since what something is "worth" will be different for everyone. If spare time is scarce and the end result needs to be ready for a car show, I would not advise going the homemade route. On the other hand, if someone values a learning experience and just general time spent working on a project of this ilk more than anything else, I would absolutely recommend the homemade route.

If I were to total up the number of days from when I first decided to use the air compressor filter as a CC and went out and bought one until the time I finally finished messing around with it (painting, remounting, rerouting, etc.), it would end up being a few dozen at least. And the amount of money I spent on small parts and items that I ended up not using in the final result would probably be over $100. And then add in the cost of the parts I did use in the final result and my total monetary cost was over $150 I’m sure.

For some people, spending a couple months and a couple of C-notes to get a CC for their 3.6L would be an insane proposition, and I agree, it is a little excessive. But like I said, I value the experience and knowledge gained more than anything. Going into that whole project, I knew very little about an internal combustion engine’s CCV system in general, and the Pentastar’s in particular. Coming out of it, I had gained quite a bit of insight on both of those subjects.

Also, I found out how little I knew about the proper way to strip, clean, prepare, and then paint a surface like what would be used in this project. There again, the knowledge I gained in that area alone is invaluable. (You wouldn’t think spray painting one of those air filter housings would be so difficult, but I am here to tell you, it is very difficult to do it so that the end result is even and near-flawless. Those sharp corners at the top of the housing turn out to be a real bear when trying to lay down an even coating of paint.)

And since learning what NOT to do is as valuable as learning what to do, I will now provide some tips on aspects of the homemade CC build which I had to learn the hard way, and which I hope others can read here and avoid all together if they try it.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tip 1: Figure out the mounting part first! That will be the most difficult to get right, meaning make it functional, safe, and look good as well. So unless you have a good plan going into this part, I would not even start because you could end up with a killer looking CC that gets duck taped to the fuse box after you got drunk and frustrated and said, "Screw it, this is good enough!!"


Tip 2: If you’re going to repaint the CC housing, practice up on your spray painting abilities first! Seriously, if you’re just a rank amateur going into this, you’ll end up stripping and spraying, stripping and spraying, stripping and spraying the thing trying to get it to look right. And if you’re using a special color spray paint that is hard to find and more expensive than standard colors, this could turn out to be an expensive learning lesson!

Don’t believe me? Try to find a spray paint that will match Dodge’s Toxic Orange/Mango Tango paint color. Hint: you can’t; but you can match it close enough by using Burnt Copper engine enamel and another specialty paint on top of it, whose name is escaping me at the moment. My point being, after you add in the primer and clear coat engine enamels, it can get expensive to respray something several times.


Tip 3: Do your best to plan out the hose route beforehand so you can estimate what kind and how many of the NPT fittings you’ll need to connect everything together. Those NPT fittings are cheap to buy until you buy so many of them trying to cover all possible combinations. $1.50 to $2.00 a pop ain’t bad, but multiply that by 15 or 20, and you’re getting close to reckless spending.


Tip 4: You might be tempted to save some $$ by using one of the air compressor filters from Harbor Freight instead of the more expensive options available at Lowes/Home Depot, but I would advise against that. The HF ones will not filter out as much crap as the others. Their filter media only stops contaminants down to the 40 microns size, but the Lowes/HD filter media stop everything down to 5 microns.

From my research on this, it sounds like most of the oil droplets coming through in the blow-by (espeically at high RPMs) will be smaller than 40 microns. So running the HF version will not stop as much contamination of the intake plenum as the others will, and that's the whole reason to do the CC - stopping intake plenum contamination - so go with the more stringent filter media if at all possible.


Tip 5: Any extra PCV hose that you need can be purchased at the local automotive store obviously, but be sure to get the type of hose specifically manufactured for this purpose. Buying the wrong type (heater hose, for example) can lead to premature failure of the inside of the hose, causing a kink or collapse to form in the line, thereby shutting off the blow-by gases route of escape completely. That’s a very bad thing indeed!

Anything that can withstand an operating environment rich in hydrocarbons should be fine, e.g. fuel line, transmission lines, etc.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nuke, OUT!
 
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#19 ·
It dawned on me after I posted that last reply that I probably should have been less theoretical in my prose, and instead provided some actual examples of the items I was discussing. This post will attempt to rectify that.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The mounting bracket I ended up going with for my final product was meant to hang pipe or something I think, but anyway this is the actual piece of hardware I got at Lowes -
Hanger Bracket: Shop Cambridge Resources 2-in - 2-in Dia Galvanized Hanger Iron at Lowes.com

Now it is obviously not going to work in its stock form, so I had to modify the heck out of it by making it shorter and more rigid/stiff. I did that by cutting off several inches and then folding the remaining portion of the “handle” back over on itself to double up the structure I would eventually bolt in place to hold the CC. Also, that long-arse screw that comes with it is of no use, so I chunked it:

View attachment Mounting Bracket.bmp

Once I had it in the shape I wanted it in, I then slowly dipped the whole contraption in liquid Plasti-Dip to coat it with a nice, smooth coating of rubber. This is the kind of Plasti-Dip I am talking about (just so no one thinks I’m talking about the kind that comes in a spray can like is so popular nowadays):

Plasti-dip: Plasti Dip® - 14-1/2 Oz. Plasti Dip® - Black

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When I referenced the NPT fittings you’ll need to route the hoses, I was talking about this kind (as opposed to the kind that has quick-connect ends or something):

Brass Metal Copper Pipe Plumbing fitting


Brass Plumbing fitting Metal Copper Pipe


Since each side of the fittings you use will need to be affixed to some rubber hose somehow. The most obvious method would be using hose clamps like these:

Auto part Automotive engine part Piston ring


That kind of clamp will end up being a pain though, I would use this kind to save space and keep it from looking too “busy” when you get done:

Auto part Fashion accessory Metal


That kind also has the advantage of being easy to get on and off, and that is something you might end up doing quite a bit if you keep readjusting your hose route because you want to try it a different way or something.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding Tip 5, here is a length of PCV hose I got from my local O’Reilly Auto to take up any slack in my hose routing -
PCV Hose: Prestone CV1932 - Crankcase Vent Hose | O'Reilly Auto Parts

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay, so I hope that is a little more helpful for anyone that decided to make their own CC, or is still trying to decide if they want to make their own.

One more thing though…I don’t want to put too fine a point on it, but that whole bracket thing is really the main roadblock for a successful project here I believe. I am not thrilled with how mine turned out, but it was honestly the best I could come up with at the time. I tried all kinds of different things, different mounting locations, different everything, but nothing ever seemed to work well enough that I trusted it and thought it looked halfway decent.

So take any examples I gave on that topic with a grain of salt. I’m not saying anyone should try to emulate that kind of bracket. But if you do want to, that’s how I did mine.

Nuke, OUT!
 
#20 ·
Really necessary

So.....

Is a catch can on a 6 Cyl really necessary?

I was under the impression it was really a Hemi thing.....
 
#21 ·
So.....

Is a catch can on a 6 Cyl really necessary?

I was under the impression it was really a Hemi thing.....

The Hemi's have so much already, it's about time they shared something with the rest of us.
 
#23 ·
Ok so it's another recommended thing then. My SXT has around 30K on it now so I'll pop that sucker on when I get back to the states in a few months.

How much oil are you guys getting? The SRT thread has conflicting reports, but the general consensus is to empty it at every oil change.
 
#24 ·
Which side to mount it on ?

Hi
just finished looking at my 3.6L motor and I am a little confused
there is 2 CC vent lines, one on the passenger side and one on the driver side that ends up connecting too the CAI
so which line is better to connect the catch can too ?? or doesn't it matter
it is a 2015 SXT PLUS 3.6L


thx for the help
 
#25 ·
Hi
just finished looking at my 3.6L motor and I am a little confused
there is 2 CC vent lines, one on the passenger side and one on the driver side that ends up connecting too the CAI
so which line is better to connect the catch can too ?? or doesn't it matter
it is a 2015 SXT PLUS 3.6L


thx for the help
The one on passenger side is PCV line. That's the one to splice a catch can into.

Air flow in that line is from cylinder head (@PCV valve) to intake plenum, so filtering oil droplets out of that line prevents them from getting into intake and mixing with incoming air charge headed for combustion chambers.
 
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#27 ·
Hose type

Hi again
was just wondering if there was a substitute hose that can be used instead of crankcase vent hose ?
I know not to use fuel line , would heater hose be ok ?


just wondering as the CCV hose is about $2.00 /foot here


thx again for the help
 
#28 ·
Hi again
was just wondering if there was a substitute hose that can be used instead of crankcase vent hose ?
I know not to use fuel line , would heater hose be ok ?


just wondering as the CCV hose is about $2.00 /foot here


thx again for the help
:notsigned:

STOP!!! BACK AWAY FROM THE HEATER HOSE!!!!

You have to use a hose that is expected to see service in a harsh, oily environment, e.g. transmission line, crankcase ventilation, etc.

If you were to use heater hose, the oily droplets in the blow-by gases would attack the inside of the hose's walls and cause them to slowly deteriorate, eventually leading to collapse/failure.

When I was monkeying around with the CC on my 2011 3.6L, I just went down to the local O'Reilly Auto Parts and bought a package of generic PCV line in the correct size (I/D) to use as I needed. I don't remember the size, but it's going to be pretty easy to measure on your existing one, so you can then take that number and go down to a local auto parts store and buy the generic PCV hose like this:

Text Font Display advertising Advertising


And now that I look at the details of those items, it appears as though they line up with what you were saying - $2/foot, but you shouldn't need more than 2 feet, which is what one of the packages comes with. So it's just $4 for the hose, unless you're doing something crazy with your CC and it's going to require several more feet. If that's the case, you might try to call around to some wrecking yards and see if they'll let you go pull some PCV hoses off wrecked vehicles for a flat rate, like $10 for 5 hoses or something.

I don't know, just spit-balling there, but I used to work in a wrecking yard a long time ago, and if there's one thing they love, it's to make money without having to actually sell anything of value, and PCV hoses would fall into that category I'm pretty sure.
 
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#29 ·
Never thought trying to install a catch can on the wife's Challenger would be so hard.


None of the parts stores here in Ontario Canada have heard of crankcase vent or pcv hose.


I know it is not right but may end up using fuel line, apparently it has the same SAE # as the proper hose
 
#30 ·
Fuel line might be okay to use since it's meant for service in a hydrocarbon-rich environment, but that's just a guess on my part, so verification wouldn't hurt.

As far as finding some PVC hose for sale at local parts stores, try asking for the PVC hose for a 2010 Challenger with the 3.5L. It uses a stretch of hose instead of plastic, and it could conceivably be used in your scenario to make things work, dependent upon price obviously.
 
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#32 ·
Hi guys. I am planning to add a catch can very soon. My car is still fresh with just over 400 miles on it. I have mapped out a plan for the catch can connecting both vent ports to the catch can with a T.
I am planning on using 9/16 ID fuel line and putting a fuel filter between the can and the intake. I plan to plug the inlet to the intake. I am hoping someone will chime in with some feedback. Thanx in advance.
 

Attachments

#35 ·
hi guys. I am planning to add a catch can very soon. My car is still fresh with just over 400 miles on it. I have mapped out a plan for the catch can connecting both vent ports to the catch can with a t.
I am planning on using 9/16 id fuel line and putting a fuel filter between the can and the intake. I plan to plug the inlet to the intake. I am hoping someone will chime in with some feedback. Thanx in advance.
If you have already started working on this, STOP!!

Do NOT proceed with the CC mod as you have it drawn out there!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seriously, what you have drawn there is not going to work. Not only will what you have drawn up not work for the CC mod, but you would actually be crippling the engine's CCV system, and a healthy engine needs a functioning CCV system to stay healthy (Catch Cans are meant to add to the benefits an engine's CCV system provides, making it a more useful/helpful piece of the whole equation).

In a nutshell, there are two distinct, separate pieces to the CCV system on your engine, with 'separate' being the operative word in that sentence. Your drawing looks like you want to combine those two pieces into one, which will NOT work. They are separate for a reason, and the CC will only be added to one of them. The other one does not need it (under normal circumstances).

I've got some service docs, pics of a 3.6L and its various CCV parts, and even a few hand-drawings of my own that I think will be useful for this topic. I will try to round them up and either post up them up here or link to their original thread so you to take a look at them when you have some time. Then things will make a little more sense with all of this stuff I think.

It's confusing, I know, but it's actually fairly straightforward once you get it figured out.

Nuke
 
#36 ·
Thanx for the response Nuke. I did not try my guesstimate CC mod. I researched more and actually read a reply you had posted earlier concerning the same matter. Once I realized the vacuum hose connected to the air box was so the engine could inhale fresh air, I saw my error. I plan on putting it between the PCV and the IM only. Thanx for reply. & earlier clarification of what does what...
 
#37 · (Edited)
Good to hear you got it figured out, but I did just go to the trouble of creating a modern art masterpiece to use as a visual aid, so I'm gonna attach it so all was not for naught:

Text Auto part Diagram Font Map



That is actually a screen grab from the TSB for replacing the PCV valve on the Pentastar back in 2011, with some additional content courtesy of yours truly. Just in case anyone else runs across this thread and wonders what all that mess is, here's what the numbers are pointing to:

1. Make-up line (aka Fresh Air line) - Allows the engine to replace the dirty air it is removing from crankcase (which is pulled out through the PCV valve[2] and into the intake plenum[6] via the PCV line[3]). The vacuum left behind in the crankcase is filled in by clean air drawn in from air intake box (or air intake tube[4] in the case of aftermarket CAIs).


2. PCV Valve - This is the traffic cop of the PCV side of the CCV system! It will allow blow-by gasses to be pulled out of the crankcase (or blown out if engine operating at maximum TQ output, i.e. WOT & redline) and into the intake plenum ( via the PCV line[3]) to be mixed and eventually burned with the incoming air charge. It polices this flow of gases by opening and closing only as much as necessary according to the amount of vacuum present on the intake side of the valve*, with the help of an embedded spring to keep it closed at low or no vacuum operation.


3. PCV line - Allows the engine to remove the dirty air from the crankcase by providing a path for those blow-by gases to flow through once they exit the PCV valve. It delivers these gases to the intake plenum[6] so that they can be mixed up with the incoming air charge and burned at ignition.

When installing a Catch Can, the PCV line is the line that it needs to be spliced into.



4. Air Intake Tube - Carries the incoming air charge from the air filter box (or bare air filter element if CAI) to the intake plenum[6] to be mixed with blow-by gases from the crankcase which are pulled in through the PCV line [3] via the PCV valve[2].

Stock Pentastars in OE configuration will have a rubber intake tube with a built in noise baffle attached to the outside of it at the point it bends to go back toward the Throttle Body[5]. The noise baffle is made of black plastic and is removed with the stock intake tube when an aftermarket CAI is installed (unless stock intake tube is left on, in which case the baffle does as well).

NOTE 1: The absence of this noise baffle on an Pentastar with a CAI installed is a big part of why the WOT sound is so different with the CAI versus stock air intake tube/filter box setup.

NOTE 2: The make-up line[1] will connect at the air filter box in a stock or OE setup, but it will usually connect directly to the air intake tube (just upstream of the air filter element) on an aftermarket CAI setup.


5. Throttle Body - This meters the amount of air coming into the engine to be burned. But for our purposes, just think of it as the connection point between the air intake tube[4] and intake plenum[6], but more importantly it can be used to judge the efficacy of your Catch Can mod. For that, you will need to remove the TB at the same time as you install the CC and clean the backside of it with a proper solvent (not all can be used on an electronic part, so read the label!!). Basically, just remove any oily sludgy or caked-on deposits that have accumulated on the back side of the TB, and then just reinstall it once you're done.

To check whether or not your CC is doing its job, periodically remove the TB (~10-15K miles) and inspect the same surface previously cleaned. It should remain relatively clean and free of any new oily deposits or sludge build-up. If it does, that is a good indicator that the CC is doing its job - keeping microscopic oil droplets from making it into the intake plenum[6] where they tend to sludge up every surface they come into contact with.

However, if any new sludge deposits or oily films are noticed, then that is a good indication that your CC is NOT doing what it is supposed to do. Whether or not it is malfunctioning or just being overwhelmed (undersized, not emptied often enough, etc.), you can't know for sure without some investigation. But either way, it is effectively a broken part and needs to be "fixed" accordingly.


6. Intake Plenum (aka Upper Intake) - This is that big, ugly, black plastic thing sitting on top of your engine...no, not THAT ugly black plastic thing, that is the engine cover. Pull that thing off, and then you will see the Intake Plenum below it. This is the center piece for this whole perverted ballet we've been talking about here.

The inside of the intake plenum is where the clean, filtered air charge coming in from the intake tube[4], through the Throttle Body[5], where it meets up with the dirty, polluted air coming from the engine crankcase. As those two dance around each other and gyrate their hips in a perverted fashion, they are forced to mixed together before being sent down the intake runners into the combustion chambers to be mixed with the fuel and burned.

However, before leaving the dance floor, those nasty blow-by gases from the crankcase will leave behind most of their oil-droplet passengers on the inside surface of the intake plenum. Eventually that will start to form an oily sludge that gets baked into a nasty goop over time that is not good for anything except staining whatever it touches and resisting all but the most aggressive of attempts at being removed or cleaned off.

And THAT is precisely the sort of thing your new Catch Can can help reduce or even prevent, and thus one of the reasons that a CC should be considered for the Pentastar when making a list of mods to perform in search of more performance/longevity.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There, now you know everything I know about this subject. I can now lay my weary head down and sleep...sleep the sleep of the vindicated...I told my ole lady learning all that stuff way back when we had my 2011 wasn't going to be a waste of time, and now I've just proven it! Please use this knowledge for good instead of evil.

Nuke


* - This is true except for when engine is operating at or near its maximum TQ output, i.e. WOT & redline. At that point, the PCV valve[2] can stop responding to the vacuum on intake side of PCV line[3] and be forced fully open by the pressure on crankcase side of PCV valve. Normal operation returns as engine TQ output falls below max lb/ft numbers.
 
#43 ·
I would say no for 2 reasons:

1. You're introducing more resistance into the system for the blow-by gases to overcome for not much gain in filtration (any suspended oil should have already been filtered out by then).

2. There is no reservoir for the trapped oil to go into hile it waits to be drained. It just sits in the way, fouling the filter element and possibly getting sucked in thru to the intake.
 
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