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Ct member's black box saved the day for me-wow what a clever ideal

33K views 118 replies 21 participants last post by  Big Daddy’s R/T 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Let me give you a short version of a long story. If you have any questions after reading this please, post 'em up. I purchased my new 2010 R/T Classic Auto in May 2010 and being an "old MOPAR" guy and like 99% of everyone else on here, I wanted more power. Tuner, exhaust, cold air and long tube headers in that order. Not enough! After months of reading, researching, talking with others I bought a Edelbrock E-Force Supercharger. Had it installed by my mechanic at the Dodge dealership from which I purchased my ride. He did a superb job. Turned that little 5.7L into a BEAST, also turned it into a "BULL IN A CHINA SHOP"! Under WOT you could not wipe the smile from my face, however the other 99% of the time (normal driving) I was not a happy camper. Engine would be attempting to go under boost from every stop, lights, stop signs, going up hills and even while driving on cruise control, every little incline it would be trying to boost. Drove me crazy! Felt like the car was driving me instead of the other way around. I was very dissatisfied. In fact I started a thread here on CT and voiced my displeasure. That single post was my saving grace. Out of the blue came a reply to my thread......"I have a fix for that". Being retired Law Enforcement I was suspicious. My first question was "what will it cost me"? At this point I believe I would have stood on my head for a week if I thought it would have helped. His answer...."Not a penny, take it and try it". O.K. price is right. A few days later I received a "black box" with a couple of hose connections and a 12v connection. Could have been anything inside that box, maybe even a IED, but I thought what the heck. Simple to install, even I could do it. Placed a 12v red LED switch in the front cubby hole of console (where a small cell phone fits perfectly). WOW! with the switch in the "off" position my car drove just like stock again! No surging, nothing, just smooth solid power. Hit the switch to on and it was BALLS TO THE WALL again! UNBELIEVEABLE. That was two years ago. I have been over to Arrington several times for tuning, upgrades, dyno time, thousand of miles put on car and that little box has never let me down. (still don't know what's in it). Call it Supercharger on a switch, button controlled Supercharger or Supercharger on demand, whatever, IT JUST WORKS. Can't help but believe that it helps on the MPG especially while on the interstate, keeps all those little pesky boosts from coming on while under even the slighest load. Plus I like having control of the power, not it controlling me. Thinking about other locations for the control switch now maybe even on a steering wheel paddle control, that would be cool! Thanks Drag City for helping a total stranger. Your friendship and kindess will not be forgotten.
 
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#2 ·
Nice story and great to hear how you were helped. You didn't say how long ago you installed the supercharger and how long you were unhappy with the issue you were having.
Best part is it's all in the past.
 
#5 ·
Let me give you a short version of a long story. If you have any questions after reading this please, post 'em up. I purchased my new 2010 R/T Classic Auto in May 2010 and being an "old Mopar" guy and like 99% of everyone else on here, I wanted more power. Tuner, exhaust, cold air and long tube headers in that order. Not enough! After months of reading, researching, talking with others I bought a Edelbrock E-Force Supercharger. Had it installed by my mechanic at the Dodge dealership from which I purchased my ride. He did a superb job. Turned that little 5.7L into a BEAST, also turned it into a "BULL IN A CHINA SHOP"! Under WOT you could not wipe the smile from my face, however the other 99% of the time (normal driving) I was not a happy camper. Engine would be attempting to go under boost from every stop, lights, stop signs, going up hills and even while driving on cruise control, every little incline it would be trying to boost. Drove me crazy! Felt like the car was driving me instead of the other way around. I was very disatisfied. In fact I started a thread here on CT and voiced my displeasure. That single post was my saving grace. Out of the blue came a reply to my thread......"I have a fix for that". Being retired Law Enforcememt I was suspicious. My first question was "what will it cost me"? At this point I believe I would have stood on my head for a week if I thought it would have helped. His answer...."Not a penny, take it and try it". O.K. price is right. A few days later I received a "black box" with a couple of hose connections and a 12v connection. Could have been anything inside that box, maybe even a IED, but I thought what the heck. Simple to install, even I could do it. Placed a 12v red LED switch in the front cubby hole of console (where a small cell phone fits perfectly). WOW! with the switch in the "off" position my car drove just like stock again! No surging, nothing, just smooth solid power. Hit the switch to on and it was BALLS TO THE WALL again! UNBELIEVEABLE. That was two years ago. I have been over to Arrington several times for tuning, upgrades, dyno time, thousand of miles put on car and that little box has never let me down. (still don't know what's in it). Call it Supercharger on a switch, button controlled Supercharger or Supercharger on demand, whatever, IT JUST WORKS. Can't help but believe that it helps on the MPG especially while on the interstate, keeps all those little pesky boosts from coming on while under even the slighest load. Plus I like having control of the power, not it controlling me. Thinking about other locations for the control switch now maybe even on a steering wheel paddle control, that would be cool! Thanks Drag City for helping a total stranger. Your friendship and kindess will not be forgotten.

Thank you Big Daddy, glad you went with the short version there. Couldn't think of a better guy to have their supercharge off line than you! Glad it's working well for you there bud.....


Awesome job Drag City, every forum needs members like you.

I had the same issues that Big Daddy was having driving a supercharged hot rod on the street, they like to go into boost under part throttle under certain conditions. Not a good thing! I fixed my problem and thought I could help him out of his as well. Thanks Yellow Jacket for that post.....



HOT ROD ON
 
#7 · (Edited)
Interesting. . . It sounds like it's a solenoid that blocks the vacuum line so the bypass valve doesn't close.

Question: When we go WOT the system goes into Closed Loop, which uses a predetermined set of fuel/timing tables that the person tuning the car has established.

Those tables are set - expecting there to be a lot more air being rammed into the cylinders.

What happens when you go WOT, the Closed Loop tables take over and increase fuel and timing, but all that extra air is not there because the bypass valve didn't close? Won't it run extremely rich?
 
#8 ·
Actually there is a little more to it than a solenoid controlling the system, if that that were the case, vacuum leak down would engage the sc and that would be a major problem. The best way to answer you questions here is to have Big Daddy post up his dyno sheet with the sc off line at Arrington. I can say, at wot my Magnacharged 6.1 with the sc off line runs just a little slower than stock, no engine codes, no smoke coming out the back, it just hauls butt. Unlike Big Daddy I didn't have have my tuner Adam at Spanking time run it with the sc off line after his tune was installed.


HOT ROD ON
 
#9 ·
Will be glad to post up dyno runs at Arrington last year with both SC on and off line. Will just need a little time to brush up on how to post the pics. A/F was never a problem. AJ, Matt and Dave of Arrington were there at the controls when the runs were made. That was on May 22, 2013.
 
#17 ·
Thanks FT, we feel there may be a pace for this in the supercharged world and we decided to let lose with it here on CT and see where it ends up.

Sounds like it does the same thing that Tim's (mr Norms)WOT box from 4 years ago.
No stupid switch tho. Been running WOT box on mine for 4 years.
It's great. Adam ( ST) has a improved version that has no moving parts.

It's essentially a surge tank that allows more throttle before going into boost.
It eliminates nuisance unwanted boost. It's a must for high boost big HP cars.
Give a guy a break there hot rod! I am familiar with the vacuum tank that Adam came up with and we talked about it when I showed him my box. First off, this control box is a duel purpose device. To be able to secure your supercharger with a flip of switch or turn of a key is something that is unique as it comes. The performance aspect of the box is that it gives you the ability to control SC lag. We are not looking to DELAY when boost comes on, in fact we are doing the complete opposite here. Supercharger lag is build into these blowers to make them streetable. I have tuned my supercharger to come on line faster, giving me that edge when needed. When I hit wot, my sc is on line right now. The downside is very bad street manners! .... but with the SC off line, very streetable. I will be going into detail on this a little later.....



HOT ROD ON

r
 
#12 ·
Sounds like it does the same thing that Tim's (mr Norms)WOT box from 4 years ago.
No stupid switch tho. Been running WOT box on mine for 4 years.
It's great. Adam ( ST) has a improved version that has no moving parts.

It's essentially a surge tank that allows more throttle before going into boost.
It eliminates nuisance unwanted boost. It's a must for high boost big HP cars.
 
#13 ·
I agree cukarboy you need something on these high HP boosted engines to control those unwanted surges, what I have works perfectly for me, I'm thankful for having it after reading posts here and on other forums of others with those same problems after pouring lots of dough into their hot rod. That engine bay of yours is a knockout! Good job.
 
#14 ·
1st, and no offense intended to cukarboy, the knockout in the picture is better than the engine bay, IMHO.
2nd, that's a big difference in HP from boost to non-boost. Seems much less in non-boost mode than stock, or am I not reading that correctly. Do you not notice that relatively large difference in stock HP versus when you have the switch in non-boost mode.
 
#19 ·
I Keep thinking about the paddle type control on steering wheel for SC on/off, I'm sure that would not be a real big deal to install, might just have to purchase a newer type steering wheel (mine is a 2010 before paddles). Not Sure, what do you guys think? Is this doable? Thanks.
 
#20 ·
Ok pardon my ignorance, I am interested in this as I have the dreaded 1990 turbo lag in my Edelbrock S/C as well. Now my question is does the s/c come back on line at wot automatically? when that GT500 pulls up next to me and I already have to concentrate on downshifting and beating him and I know damn well I'm going to forget to flip the switch and then look pretty stupid. The lag sucks but I guess I've learned to either drive like grandma or just be in boost all the time :).


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#21 ·
Ok pardon my ignorance, I am interested in this as I have the dreaded 1990 turbo lag in my Edelbrock S/C as well. Now my question is does the s/c come back on line at wot automatically? when that GT500 pulls up next to me and I already have to concentrate on downshifting and beating him and I know damn well I'm going to forget to flip the switch and then look pretty stupid. The lag sucks but I guess I've learned to either drive like grandma or just be in boost all the time :).


With the sc lag you mentioned, forget about that GT500 next to you! I was there and it felt like it took all day for boost to show up. With that going on, it wouldn't make any difference if you had the sc on or off line, you lose. Are you running the tune that came with the SC? After going with a custom tune things got a little better but that lag was still haunting me. The superchargers are designed to come on line in a way to make them somewhat streetable for the average guy to live with, I could not. The cure for your lag is to install a larger restrictor pin in the vacuum actuator. I believe that it is located on the right front of your SC. The picture shows two vacuum actuators with the two pins removed. The pin on the left is the one that came with the SC, as you can see, the orfice is small and that allows the sc to come on line slowly. The pin on the right is quite a bit larger and that one will launch you like never before with zero lag. Different sized pins can be installed to get the desired launch that suits you and your hot rod. As I mentioned before, With the larger pin installed street manners are a little poor but with the sc off line your hot will drive like stock. Now you won't feel too bad pulling up next to that Mustang.The switch can be placed anywhere you like for quick access. I have left mine off under wot a time or two and all you hear is that sc whine.







HOT ROD ON
 
#22 ·
Well I was talking about a 5 year old GT500 :). Seriously though thanks for clarifying how everything works. I do have the stock Edlebrock tune because I purchased their warranty so I'm covered for 3/36 on engine and power train. I can live with the little bit of lag but I can't live with a blown motor so I'll probably just have to deal with it.


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#27 ·
Well I was talking about a 5 year old GT500 :). Seriously though thanks for clarifying how everything works. I do have the stock Edlebrock tune because I purchased their warranty so I'm covered for 3/36 on engine and power train. I can live with the little bit of lag but I can't live with a blown motor so I'll probably just have to deal with it.

When you get tired of that sc lag, you may think differently later on. Good choice on the extended warranty, nice to know that your protected when SC's are involved. I would say that tweaking that system would not be a cause for your engine to grenade on you. Just putting it on line a little quicker than before. 5 year old GT500, that's better, You and I should leave the newer ones alone and let the big hp guys on this forum deal with them........



HOT ROD ON
 
#23 ·
I don't know anything about the Edelbrock, but the Kenne Bell should have max boost available at idle. There should be no "waiting" for the boost to kick in.

Keep in mind that a tune can be designed to limit your power. It can be set to provide less fuel/timing below "x" rpm. I got one of these tunes by mistake once. The car was wimpy until I hit 4 grand, then it shot off.

So, just to throw that out there: If you want full power to be available at idle, make sure your tuner knows that.
 
#31 ·
I don't want to be talking out my tailpipe here, ( again ) so as far as tuning these hot rods go, I don't have a clue
on anything but paying the man when he is finished. We kind of had it figured out years ago but things changed on us. With the Magnacharger tune installed, I recall Adam telling me that the timing was being forced in too soon and the engine was not happy. Not much changed in regard to the lag issue after the tune. No matter where you wind up after the tune, the sc will still engage at a set speed determined by that small orfice in the actuator ...slow. Adam and I discussed the vacuum actuator that I noticed on a Kenny Bell that controls the bypass and it looks like it is the same that is on other SC's. If so, they can be controlled as well.


By-the-way: I think the box is a great idea. I've also had times that I wanted "more" power, but not have the car go into "boosted" power. This device gives you that option, on-the-fly, at the flip of a switch. Nice!

Thanks for the positive feedback on that Rick!.........


HOT ROD ON
 
#24 · (Edited)
Also, it sounds like some people are not understanding what Drag City's box does.

I read it as: His box is either turned On or turned Off.

When it's turned on: The car will drive like the supercharger was removed from the car. All the time. No matter how you drive it.

When it's turned off: The car will perform exactly like it had been, since you installed the blower, with all the issues you guys are not happy with.

The box will not fix what you are describing as surging, and still have boosted power.

His box simply gives you the option to be able to flip a switch, and have the car perform like it did before you installed the blower: Like it was stock. At the stock power level.

Correct?
 
#25 ·
By-the-way: I think the box is a great idea. I've also had times that I wanted "more" power, but not have the car go into "boosted" power. This device gives you that option, on-the-fly, at the flip of a switch. Nice!
 
#32 ·
Curious, my 2014 GT500 does not have any SC lag, or surge, and does not need an off line switch on 2.3 TVS. It drives like a ***** cat until pressing the gas, then instant 15psi boost. I display my vac/boost all the time and it has smooth transition into positive during normal driving. You can't even tell it is in boost at low psi. I don't know all I need to, but reading about the surging and lagging and off line switches caught my interest. This is my first SC car.
 
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