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Do you think the appeal of the traditional muscle car formula is generational?

16K views 211 replies 36 participants last post by  Saetta 
#1 ·
The Challenger and Charger are some of the last cars, in my opinion, to hold true to the standard muscle car formula of big fun on the streets in the straights.

As much as I love the Challenger, at 23 I feel like an outlier as a muscle fan while many of my millennial contemporaries focus on Ken Block cars (Focus RS, Fiesta ST, WRX STi, and literally anything else he touches). They're all great cars in their own right, but it seems less common for the younger crowd to pick up muscle cars. Has our infrastructure changed so much that muscle car doesn't fit into the landscape of the 21st century anymore?

What do y'all think? Will the muscle car go the way of the Dodo?
 
#3 ·
The muscle car may not go the way of the dodo, but it will certainly become an endangered species, imo. While there are some in your generation who appreciate true muscle, their numbers don't compare to those of us in the older set. Speaking of outlier, I feel like one around my son who has a Jag F-Type and doesn't keep it clean. He doesn't understand why I keep my car spotless, and I don't understand why he doesn't.
 
#53 ·
Slobs and Slobettes

...Speaking of outlier, I feel like one around my son who has a Jag F-Type and doesn't keep it clean. He doesn't understand why I keep my car spotless, and I don't understand why he doesn't.
I'm lock-step with you in bewilderment on this one. It used to be a given that guys had messy rooms and immaculate cars, while girls had pristine rooms and garbage dumps for cars. One of my sons (23) has managed to hit both targets with his inability to detect or care about things that are a giant mess. I would go insane.
 
#4 ·
Performance cars today come in different flavors, purpose, and executions.

The simple formula of (60s) cheap, fast, and straight-line only doesn't apply in the same fashion today as in the past...

an outgrowth was the 80s hot-hatch movement which took FWD, better handling in a smaller package that has developed into AWD, forced induction that then migrated to sports sedans and the like.

So now we have RWD, FWD and AWD variants on this theme. Each has its own merits and following.

>Camaro
>Mustang
>Challenger
>Subaru WRX / STI
>Golf GTI/ Golf R
>Mitsu Evo
>Focus RS
>BMW M2, M3, M4
>BENZ AMG (various)
>Alfa Guilia Quadrifoglio
 
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#6 ·
My and most old school muscle car guys agree on one thing, a true muscle car has ONLY 2 doors.
The Millennials grew up with four door cars and accept them but to me the Charger is a big thumbs down.
The Fast and Furious movies are why the tuner cars are big, but us old guys is why the Challenger is here and why it's a 6 speed, because Chrysler heard loud and clear in 2008 we must have a manual trans.
 
#11 ·
My and most old school muscle car guys agree on one thing, a true muscle car has ONLY 2 doors.
The millennials grew up with four door cars and accept them but to me the charger is a big thumbs down.
The fast and furious movies is why the tuner cars are big but us old guys is why the Challenger is here and why it's a 6 speed because Chrysler heard loud and clear in 2008 we must have a manual trans.
Muscle car designation is as vague as it gets.

Current Charger vs Challenger difference is like 400 pounds between the trims.
 
#7 ·
As a "millennial", none of this crap about growing up a certain way is any way a good indicator of our current preference. The simple fact of the matter is the millennial population as a whole is poor as **** and can't afford to be buying cars let alone a muscle car.
 
#200 ·
Ha Ha! You didn't grow up in the 70's when they had that nasty recession. If it wasn't for Reagan turning things around in the 80's I might still not be able to have one. Trust me, the economy today is much better than it was in the 70's when I was dreaming of owning any decent car say nothing of a muscle car.
 
#8 ·
Getting high as a kite and driving fast don't really go together. That's my guess as to why almost none of my friends are in to muscle, or tuner cars for that matter. But hey, if it was legal in my state too, who knows maybe I wouldn't be into it either.
 
#9 ·
I don't believe muscle cars will go away, it's just attracts different crowds, like imports, motorcycles, off road vehicles, desert racing etc. majority of people if not all want more bang for their buck and I think when they look at muscle cars they just see straight line performance, vs everything else that can be made to turn do track days drift whatever the cool kids are doing. Fact is most are not exposed to muscle (type) cars as much as they are Everything else, me included.
 
#12 ·
The extra doors makes it a family car no matter how many horsepower.
A true Charger was a 2 door. Dodge just recycled a popular nameplate.

The Magnum was a station wagon with a Hemi- another dumb idea
 
#13 ·
The extra doors makes it a family car no matter how many horsepower.
A true Charger was a 2 door. Dodge just recycled a popular nameplate.
The magnum was a station wagon with a hemi another dumb idea
The current Charger could have easily been a Stratus, but that name was tarnished. I at least appreciate the Scat/Daytona/Hellcat trims of them, it could be worse.

The Magnum on the other hand is hilarious, I love it, most hate it. I'd own one, but I'm not dropping a mixtape anytime soon.
 
#16 ·
Telling grown men that driving a station wagon was cool because it had a hemi in it wasn't a great idea either.
Some bought them and then they dumped them en masse. Notice how they are almost non existent now?
Back in the days when muscle cars started tell me how many 4 door and station wagon cars did the masses go and buy/? I had a Chevelle and Grandma had the 4 door Malibu which no kid would buy and put Cragars on it.
 
#20 ·
Some people have different needs than others.

I have a coworker who loves the sound of my challenger and really wanted one but was kept at bay by the lack of doors (big family).

I told him the Charger comes with the same trims as the Challenger. He bought himself a Charger Scat Pack 4 months later.

I see about 5 chargers per 1 challenger on the road. Station Wagons fell out of fashion as a whole, in favor of crossovers.

There's a reason they decided to put the 6.4 in the G. Cherokee and Durango. (Hint: Demand)



Argue all you want, Dodge doesn't come to you for the definition of a muscle car and never will or they'll go broke, lol.
 
#18 ·
Taste in cars is to an arguable degree, generational.

I'm a car guy, and am 50 this year. Muscle cars are what I really like. A souped up Civic does not really excite me. I can appreciate it on some levels, but that is the extent of it. Conversely, I am sure a lot of teenagers or younger adults look at my Challenger, or muscle cars in general and feel little if any affinity, and would rather have a tuner car.

It's all good, there's room in this hobby for all.
 
#21 ·
There is/was a nice cruise night near me that is losing a good part of the regulars because the kids in the civics and other tuners act like fools and drive like fools so it brings negative attention and old school rodders want no part of it.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Agree with most of this stuff.

Cars in general is an expensive hobby. Ive spent time in the Jeep world, diesel world, and mustang world prior to buying my 11 SRT. The current "muscle" generation is more expenive than average from my experience. I consider my financial situation fairly strong for someone in their mid 30's and this purchase took pretty much all of my toy fund. I think that's a big reason why you don't see too many of the younger crowd. It would have to be their DD, which, IMHO makes it hard to treat the vehicle as a hobby.

Some people make it work for a DD, but it really isn't the most practical vehicle for those duties.
 
#23 ·
DD

Agree with most of this stuff.

Some people make it work for a DD, but it really isn't the most practical vehicle for those duties.
This is my DD car and I dont really see it as impractical either. I came to this car from a VW TDI. To tell you truth this car is more practical then the 2000 1.8T bug I was driving for the last 18 years and then TDI bug that I had the last 3. I also dont think most kids today care about any cars as when they get older/old enough to drive they wont have any choice to have a car with character/v8/gas. Their only choice is going to be: the bus, the tram, or electric car that drives itself. I have 2 kids in the 20 year range and one wont get a license and 1 only wants to drive a car if its automatic. I also live way out in the country and my commute is 100+ miles a day. As I am in my car about 2.5 hours a day I feel the size and comfort factor is very practical for day to day driving as well as several hour road trips that I also enjoy taking(mostly because they about the same as my daily commute and the fact that I like to drive anyway).

Ron
 
#22 ·
As long as there is demand Muscle Cars will remain on the scene. Chevy rekindled the horsepower wars in 1990 with the C4 ZR-1 and Dodge upped the ante in '92 with the Viper. Thankfully, those two moves woke up a few people in Detroit and set the stage for the outrageous numbers we have today.

Ford did their part with a few of the Cobra models and, with the 2005 Mustang refresh, pushed GM and Chrysler to bring back their Pony Cars with the Camaro and Challenger. Honorable mention to the very fast, very ugly 2004 GTO.

Since '05 over 1 million Challengers, Camaros and Mustangs have been sold. And they survived the recession, selling in great numbers. That total doesn't include Corvettes, Vipers, Chargers, Chevy SS or Chrysler 300 SRTs. Oops, almost forgot the Caddy V Series.

A young man, or woman, with a decent part time job can certainly afford a used modern Muscle Car in the same way they can afford a used rice burner or a used Hot Hatch.

High horsepower is here to stay and there is no reason modern Muscle Cars won't continue to enjoy the ride, across every generation.
 
#40 ·
As long as there is demand Muscle Cars will remain on the scene. . .
True. It's all about the money for car companies. If any car sells, they will keep making them.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Muscle cars will die along with masculinity

The essence of the "strong American man" will be a thing of the past. Today's men are the weakest in history (about as strong as the average woman was 30 years ago). There are many reasons for this development, all bad:


Male Physical Decline: Masculinity Is Threatened | National Review


Commentary: Boys want to be dangerous, and we should absolutely let them ? TheBlaze


The lack of interest in things that are powerful and "manly" (nothing is more masculine than high HP muscle) is directly proportional to the weakening/softening of today's pansy, video-game-playing, cell phone addicted, basement living, PC millennials. The feminine "Rice Tuner" is the natural progression. One day even rice-tuners will die, as limp wristed millennials choose Uber and robot cars as modes of travel that allow them to stay "glued" to geek tech.


I see evidence here on this very site. Many newcomers care more about a gage panels/NAV systems/wifi capability than they do; CAMs, Blowers, Headers, big fat "meats" for rear tires and NO2.
 
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#28 · (Edited)
The essence of the "strong American man" will be a thing of the past. Today's men are the weakest in history (about as strong as the average woman was 30 years ago). There are many reasons for this development, all bad:


Male Physical Decline: Masculinity Is Threatened | National Review


Commentary: Boys want to be dangerous, and we should absolutely let them ? TheBlaze


The lack of interest in things that are powerful and "manly" (nothing is more masculine than high HP muscle) is directly proportional to the weakening/softening of today's pansy, video-game-playing, cell phone addicted, basement living, PC millennials. The feminine "Rice Tuner" is the natural progression. One day even rice-tuners will die, as limp wristed millennials choose Uber and robot cars as modes of travel that allow them to stay "glued" to geek tech.


I see evidence here on this very site. Many newcomers care more about a gage panels/NAV systems/wifi capability than they do; CAMs, Blowers, Headers, big fat "meats" for rear tires and NO2.
Here we go...

Let the eye-rolling begin. You're like a broken record, you just can't wait to copy paste the same tired non-sense whenever the occasion arises, can you?
 
#27 ·
I don't know if I agree with all that....we live in the day of the niche interest, and if you look long enough and at the right stuff on the internet, you could become convinced that anything is the next big trend.

The younger generation may initially be drawn to the Ken Block style cars, but they are typically drawn to what they can afford first. Tastes migrate with deeper pockets. Manly men and big Mopars are very popular IMO right now. The next couple decades will be interesting as technology evolves, I'm just gonna focus on living in the now however... :)
 
#92 ·
The younger generation may initially be drawn to the Ken Block style cars, but they are typically drawn to what they can afford first.

True, but why? I worked my ass off washing dishes and pumping gas while in high school to buy and maintain my '71 Charger. Many of today's kids don't have that kind of drive or interest. Some do, but when I was a teen that was the norm.


Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk
 
#29 · (Edited)
It's not nonsense

I did not write the articles. If it bothers you....You might be living proof of the subject matter. Or you might need to lighten up.
 
#33 ·
the recent posts made me reflect on another point - with the cost of newer cars now, many probably can't afford much except a modest, used economy car...

It's taken years for the job market to recover, and even at that incomes in some sectors leveled off or dropped some.

In a lot of instances, the "college mills" have people emerging with student loan debt, and poor prospects for jobs. In many instances, those same individuals aren't buying things, like cars or homes.
 
#34 ·
the recent posts made me reflect on another point - with the cost of newer cars now, many probably can't afford much except a modest, used economy car...

Its taken years for the job market to recover, and even at that incomes in some sectors leveled off or dropped some.

In a lot of instances, the "college mills" have people emerging with student loan debt, and poor prospects for jobs. In many instances, those same individuals aren't buying things, like cars or homes.
This.

The only reason I have a Challenger is dumb luck and questionable financial decisions.
 
#41 ·
What?

You are not having fun yet?
 
#51 ·
Due to both interest and affinity, I am a lifetime IT person by trade - before there was such a thing even. My friends find it strange that I'm not "socially connected" with Facebook, Twitter, yadda-yadda. That's a choice I've made mostly because there are too many flame wars by those who are eager to be offended, or just like to stir the pot and see what happens. I have found this forum to be refreshingly free of such things and is the only site where I actively post.

I'm all for free speech and lively, articulate discussion but wish there was a filtering system for the forum where items flagged as being part of a degenerating topic would simply not appear.

Let the games begin!
 
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#82 · (Edited)
As you can see, I'm in a multi front flame war and dealing with people favoring censorship . Now I have to deal with neutral actors who support censorship. Thank you for your input. [emoji3]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#60 ·
I see what I'm dealing with now. I won't engage in personal insults but I will debate. Do you believe the reports from numerous sources about millennial weakness and obesity are incorrect? The SECDEF report was wrong?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#62 ·
Let's take a look at the original thread post.

"Do you think the appeal of the traditional muscle car formula is generational?"

I'm not sure that anyone has actually considered the context of that question. If they did, I missed it.

Not even sure we can agree on "the traditional muscle car formula".

Big engine in a smaller car?

That was the essence of the Pontiac GTO and all the others that followed.

Just bring on more horsepower than anyone else?

Now we're talking Chrysler 300 letter series cars from the mid-fifties.

Two different formulas that both worked.

The Challenger more closely follows the Chrysler 300 theme. Chevy and Ford are trying to nip and tuck their way into GTO territory.

Or, is the OP referring to a formula of more affordable high performance cars? (More affordable as compared to a Viper, Corvette, Porsche, etc.)

The better we define the question, the better it can be answered.
 
#66 ·
Let's think about it...if Challengers were adopted as frequently as Honda's, would they still be cool? I mean, is anybody here feeling any kind of envy or awe when they see a millennial in a 4-banger w a cheesy body kit?
 
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