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Porsche owner "on the fence" about driving "big"

15K views 120 replies 46 participants last post by  deranged 
#1 ·
Hey all..

Possible Challenger newbie but ready to buy..Forgive me for not "searching" for an answer but I only have a few days to make a decision on getting a car for May delivery and starting to lose sleep over this..

I have a beautiful low mileage 2004 Boxster S, Black on black and I love it..But I love muscle cars too and have always wanted another one.. (I had a new Mustang GT in the 80's and am partial to Ford. lol)..I can't afford or have the space to keep 3 cars so would have to sell the Porsche eventually..Yesterday I drove a stock 5.7 Hemi Challenger automatic (was not very impressed with the car..No paddle shifters? WTF?) It just seemed plain to drive..I mean, yes, it was strong and somewhat fun getting to 100mph but not enough to say "special". So I sat down with the dealer and put together a Scat pack w/shaker hood, 6 spd manual..Without driving one, I'm taking a chance that this car will be "special"..I guess I won't know until I buy/lease one..But heres my concern:

Does the size of the car wear you out after awhile of driving, say 2 hrs on back roads?

As fun as my Porsche is, being low and quick, I must say after 2hrs of driving I'm ready to scream "get me out of this car!" Its tight to sit in so it can wear you out a bit..But with the Challenger I'm just worried that "dragging" around a 4000 lb+ car is gonna do the same thing to me, but on the opposite spectrum..

So your thoughts please..Does the Challenger start to feel huge getting in it, driving it, parking it, shifting it, scratching your ball in it, etc;?..
Car and Driver had a 3 car shootout with it, ranked it 3rd, and mentioned it was big and wide with lots of understeer and slow on back roads with the Mustang GT and the Camaro ZL1..(and I'm used to driving at the front on twisties!)

So the ultimate question I can ask you guys/gals:
Do you wish it was "smaller and lighter" with all else being equal? Does the size/weight of the car question your decision every time you drive it?

I HAVE NOT looked at the new Mustang but I'm thinking I should unless I hear differently from you guys..Please be honest..And THANKYOU..I have a big decision to make..

And while your at it: IS the Scat pack night and day over the 5.7 L performance wise?



Supercaliber..
 
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#2 ·
1) It's huge. It feels huge when parking in a parking lot. Especially when opening the monster doors. Doesn't bother me. That's why I bought it.

2) I know what you're talking about driving small sports cars, it doesn't happen in the challenger. You can drive it for days and feel very comfortable the whole time.

3) it's a handful in the corners. Don't expect it to be a "special" handling car. It just isn't. It's for cruising. It's a large car with a large engine. That's what makes it special. I have the 5.7 with the 6-speed and the "super trak pak" (yes that's how the spell it). I enjoy it immensely, and live to drive it long distances on the weekend (it isn't my daily driver). I find it has plenty of power, and have invested a couple grand into a nicer exhaust and a set of headers (and a dyno tune). I wanted V8 sound, the car doesn't come stock with V8 rumble.




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#3 ·
Just thought of something to help:

I think they changed with the 2015s (Fiat parts instead), but the cars were designed by Daimler Chysler. The front end of the car is off a Mercedes S-Class, and the rear end is off an E-Class. If you've driven Mercedes' that's a close parallel for the stock suspension and handling (haven driven a good number of Benz's). The Super trak pak tightens things up a bit and lowers the car a hair, but that's the basic design of the car.


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#7 ·
Just thought of something to help:

I think they changed with the 2015s (Fiat parts instead), but the cars were designed by Daimler Chysler. The front end of the car is off a Mercedes S-Class, and the rear end is off an E-Class. If you've driven Mercedes' that's a close parallel for the stock suspension and handling (haven driven a good number of Benz's). The Super trak pak tightens things up a bit and lowers the car a hair, but that's the basic design of the car.
And the heritage shows in the way it drives. It really does feel like a big Benz. You don't see too many S-classes carving up the twisties. Because it's a big, heavy car. Get it out on the freeway and you can put a lot of miles behind you quickly and comfortably.

If you find yourself on the back roads, it will go around corners regardless of what the magazines say. Those guys think anything heavier than an Ariel Atom is a huge pig. Those guys haven't driven a car that really won't handle anytime recently. That said, a Challenger would not be my first choice for back roads (I miss my Bugeye Sprite).

Horses for courses. You wouldn't pick a Boxster for drag racing, any more than you'd pick a Challenger for handling. Rather than look at the size and weight as a negative, enjoy it for what it is, because as big cars go, the Challenger is glorious.
 
#4 ·
I drove a regular Challenger RT a few years back. It is a totally different car than my SRT. I don't know where the Scat Pack is on the spectrem, but my 2009 SRT handles better than a gen 4 or gen 5 corvette (in my opinion).

I would guess that most people on here like the way the Challenger drives. I certainly do. I like the feel of the big car - it gives me flashbacks to cars from my youth. They are, by every reasonable measure, fast and handle pretty well. They do not handle like your Porche. I really like how comfortable mine is. I can drive it for hours and it doesn't make me tired or make anything ache. I have owned 5 different Corvettes and every one of them made my body hurt after a few hours.

I would never buy a Scat Pack without having driven one. Check cars.com or something and take the 2 hour drive to a dealer that actually has one to take a ride. If you can't find that, post on here looking for someone in your area that might let you at least get a ride in theirs - we are a friendly group and like to help (and really like excuses to drive).
 
#5 ·
Having traded a 5.7 in for a scat pack I would say you have to drive the SP before you decide. These cars are very different! I love stuffing the new car into corners! The R/T not so much, the suspension was not good enough for the weight. The new car is much more nimble. You need to drive and decide for yourself.

Based on orderer's comments there is probably no way you will be able to get a Scat Pack Shaker delivered by May, FCA is sending out e-mails apologizing for delays due to high demand.
 
#6 ·
Although I haven't ordered our Challenger yet, we (my wife & I) did test drive the R/T Plus (5.7). It had respectable power and made the both of us smile. How-ever, everyone has been telling me that if the R/T made us smile, the Scat will take that smile and wrap it around the back of our heads! We're still waiting to test drive one. But in all honesty, we're looking to get this car for the "Fun-Factor" along with bringing us back to our younger days when we couldn't afford the original Challenger. So if we do move forward, it'll be the Scat Pack for sure!

Now with all that being said, we also test drove the new Mustang GT on 3 separate occasions. The Mustang is lower, lighter and handles better in the turns. She is a beautiful car! The Challenger is bigger, heavier and can hold it's own in the twisties, but can't compete with the Mustang in that area. The Challenger is extremely comfortable (more so then the Mustang, in our opinion) and is clearly a cruiser. She's a great reincarnation of the good old muscle cars from the past for straight line fun! We thought we were sold on the Mustang GT. That all went out the window after we saw, sat in and test drove the Challenger!! :thumbsup:
 
#9 ·
You wont be disappointed in the power for the sure. And I dont see where the car can be fatiguing really. I had a 2010 Camaro SS before my scat, the scat has more power, but the camaro handled better of which mustang is even better than the camaro.

before you sign your name away for 50 grand. I think Id drive a mustang as probably much closer to what you have now, and try and find a scat to drive, if you cant find a scat an SRT will be similar.

Another food for thought, is in about two weeks camaro will be releasing its new model, which is suppose to out preform stang.
 
#11 ·
As an R/T owner, you're right, this car screams and begs me not to put it through any more corners. I almost feel as though I need to apologize to it when the road gets twisty. That being said, the size is not a bad thing. You'll get used to it eventually and this car is a road trip machine. I've owned and driven vehicles where I was wanting to kill someone when I got out of them but not in this car. I could drive it all day. I even put strengthened components in it that made it easier to drive, like the clutch. I installed a McLeod clutch in the car and it's easily 30-50% lighter than the stock clutch so I have no issues in it, regardless of the driving environment. Also, I added Wilwood 600 racing brake fluid which lightened it up further and takes much more punishment. Were you to go with the regular RT it wouldn't have taken much to make it more corner friendly. Coil-overs (BC racing = $1000) and some sort of brake upgrade and you would have been fine. Either way, you're going to fall in love with it. Just remember though, IT'S NOT A PORSCHE!!!
 
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#12 ·
Honestly, I can't understand the over concern about handling. I've owned a 911, Corvette and a 335i. Not once did I take them to an oval track, or push them on a winding mountain road. My anniversary edition R/T is fantastic! Handles fine for me. It's a straight line cruiser. Designed for nostalgia,comfort and with a strong side of brute. And for those characteristics, it delivers in spades. This car, is a mans car, and an attention getter.
 
#14 ·
I wouldn't take an SRT out for a spin if I were you :)
 
#16 ·
Does the size of the car wear you out after awhile of driving, say 2 hrs on back roads?

As fun as my Porsche is, being low and quick, I must say after 2hrs of driving I'm ready to scream "get me out of this car!" Its tight to sit in so it can wear you out a bit..But with the Challenger I'm just worried that "dragging" around a 4000 lb+ car is gonna do the same thing to me, but on the opposite spectrum..

In a word, "no."


I bought my Challenger (used, a 2011 with 34K on the clock) last September 6th. Picked it up around noon, grabbed some lunch, then drove it home (~ 100 mi.). Watched the FSU/Citadel game, and left the house to go driving around (for fun) as soon as the ref blew the final whistle; I got back home from my drive at 4:30am. I went to bed, woke up Sunday morning at around 10am, and went right back out driving around until about 10pm.


In short, the car had 34K on the odo when I got it Sept 6; it now has 47K on it, and I've not ventured more than about 20 miles out of town with it. That's 14,000 miles of in-town driving in 6 months. You will (or should) not get "worn out" driving your Challenger. If my 3.6L V6 can drag around 4,000+ pounds and still feel peppy, then I'm sure your Challenger won't disappoint you.


Enjoy the (s)miles!


:wink3:
 
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#17 ·
Take this with a grain of salt...

because is my first post and I don't own a Challenger and I am not really a car guy. But I test dove a 5.7l R/T and then 10 minutes later an R/T Scat Pack. After drving the 5.7l, I thought, hmmm., I could live with this. After driving the Scat Pak 10 minutes later, I thought, I AM GETTING THIS! (Though, in truth, I think I am going with an SRT for no good reason over the Scat Pack but vanity!) Different experience altogether. IMHO, the extra HP plus the suspension does make the car feel lighter and a bit more nimble.
 
#18 ·
Hey all..

Possible Challenger newbie but ready to buy..Forgive me for not "searching" for an answer but I only have a few days to make a decision on getting a car for May delivery and starting to lose sleep over this..

I have a beautiful low mileage 2004 Boxster S, Black on black and I love it..But I love muscle cars too and have always wanted another one.. (I had a new Mustang GT in the 80's and am partial to Ford. lol)..I can't afford or have the space to keep 3 cars so would have to sell the Porsche eventually..Yesterday I drove a stock 5.7 Hemi Challenger automatic (was not very impressed with the car..No paddle shifters? WTF?) It just seemed plain to drive..I mean, yes, it was strong and somewhat fun getting to 100mph but not enough to say "special". So I sat down with the dealer and put together a Scat pack w/shaker hood, 6 spd manual..Without driving one, I'm taking a chance that this car will be "special"..I guess I won't know until I buy/lease one..But heres my concern:

Does the size of the car wear you out after awhile of driving, say 2 hrs on back roads?

No, but it's not particularly fast on a back road. You can do 20 over all day on a windy road but it won't do it with the ease and grace of a lighter car. As others have mentioned, it's a dream on road trips though.

As fun as my Porsche is, being low and quick, I must say after 2hrs of driving I'm ready to scream "get me out of this car!" Its tight to sit in so it can wear you out a bit..But with the Challenger I'm just worried that "dragging" around a 4000 lb+ car is gonna do the same thing to me, but on the opposite spectrum..

Won't be an issue, as long as you're driving your own drive and not racing others.

So your thoughts please..Does the Challenger start to feel huge getting in it, driving it, parking it, shifting it, scratching your ball in it, etc;?..
Car and Driver had a 3 car shootout with it, ranked it 3rd, and mentioned it was big and wide with lots of understeer and slow on back roads with the Mustang GT and the Camaro ZL1..(and I'm used to driving at the front on twisties!)

It's huge when you compare back to back, it isn't a problem when you are just driving this car but you really notice it if you car hop. The Car and Driver article is right when you have a car for a week and you race it. I believe the Challenger to be MUCH easier to live with on a daily basis.

So the ultimate question I can ask you guys/gals:
Do you wish it was "smaller and lighter" with all else being equal? Does the size/weight of the car question your decision every time you drive it?

The size of the car is it's biggest strength too. I've never seriously questioned my decision. But you need to know what you're buying. It's not like the others and it doesn't really try to be.

I HAVE NOT looked at the new Mustang but I'm thinking I should unless I hear differently from you guys..Please be honest..And THANKYOU..I have a big decision to make..

And while your at it: IS the Scat pack night and day over the 5.7 L performance wise?

Engine wise it is, hard to overcome 100 extra hp and 65 torque. I don't think a Scat Pak is night and day over a 5.7STP handling wise, but the power just brings the whole package up a notch.


Supercaliber..
All of the Challengers understeer pretty badly and it will be very noticeable coming from a Boxster. I'll probably get flamed for this, but even the SRT isn't that great of a handler. It suffers on transitions with nearly 55% of it's weight up front. You can dial up oversteer pretty easily with the throttle so you can drive it in a very 'entertaining' fashion, but that's not always the fastest way to go. It's got decent grip and a relatively compliant suspension so you can get some great speed in sweepers if you keep enough throttle going. In order to get the most out of a Challenger, you need to a) either sit back and enjoy the ride or b) drive it like an idiot hooligan. It doesn't do smooth and fast on the twisties.

Personally I have the 5.7 manual rt. I've driven the 15 Scat Pak and the 14 SRT and Core so the 15 SRT may have some improvement over the 14 SRT. It's a great car and I'd buy another if that means anything (but I'd get the Scat Pak).

TL:DR version the Boxster and the Challenger are about as far apart as two cars can be.
 
#19 ·
Apples and Oranges

It's strictly apples and oranges: if you're searching for the true "Muscle Car" experience, then you need a Scat Pack. But if you need a comfortable driving corner killer, then you're best off with the Porsche 991 Carrera S (R&T's best drivers car).


The Scat Pack is a true rendition of the old-school muscle cars; it reminds me greatly of my 1970 LS-6 454/450 Chevelle.









The latest generation 911 Carrera S (991S) is larger, yet lighter due to the use of special alloys.





All in all, I'd be happy taking a cross country trip in either car.


Good luck with your decision. :thumbsup:

 
#20 · (Edited)
Does the size of the car wear you out after awhile of driving, say 2 hrs on back roads?

As fun as my Porsche is, being low and quick, I must say after 2hrs of driving I'm ready to scream "get me out of this car!" Its tight to sit in so it can wear you out a bit..But with the Challenger I'm just worried that "dragging" around a 4000 lb+ car is gonna do the same thing to me, but on the opposite spectrum..

So your thoughts please..Does the Challenger start to feel huge getting in it, driving it, parking it, shifting it, scratching your ball in it, etc;?..
Car and Driver had a 3 car shootout with it, ranked it 3rd, and mentioned it was big and wide with lots of understeer and slow on back roads with the Mustang GT and the Camaro ZL1..(and I'm used to driving at the front on twisties!)

So the ultimate question I can ask you guys/gals:
Do you wish it was "smaller and lighter" with all else being equal? Does the size/weight of the car question your decision every time you drive it

My short answer: GOD no! I never wish it was smaller! That's exactly why I bought it and not something else.

I've never been much of a small car guy, even though I occasionally like to drive one. I feel like smaller/lighter cars are the ones that beat you to death, I could drive my SRT-8 all day long (and have, as a matter of fact) and feel more comfortable at the end of the day than in any other car I've owned. Highways or back-roads, just doesn't matter. Sure, your Porsche is ultimately more capable of unwrapping tight corners, but how often does anyone actually DO that, AT THE LIMIT of the car, for hour after hour? That's the only place you'd even notice a difference between the Challenger and a lighter car like a Mustang- when both of them are right at their limits. Back off 10%, and the Challenger wins hands-down (I've driven a Mustang 8 hours straight also).

The Challenger is solid, sure-footed, powerful, and comfortable. Its the perfect all-around road car in my opinion. Its the exact OPPOSITE of feeling like you're "dragging it around." You can, in complete comfort and relaxation, drive it hard enough to leave everyone behind EXCEPT the guys whose cars are beating them to death at the limits of performance. Its not like keeping pace with a Camaro or Mustang will leave you exhausted and him feeling fresh. You'll all be equally tense if you're pushing hard enough for the tiny differences in the car to become apparent. The Challenger shines when you back all 3 off from "push the ultimate limits" to more moderately hard driving. If you want to beat them, just keep your Porsche. If you want to arrive at the end of a 10-hour day of drive and be ready for fun while the other guys are tired, a little deaf, and ready to crash, get a Challenger

:)

As for the differences between a 5.7 and 392, I can't comment too much since I've never owned a 5.7, other than to say the engines seem to have a fairly different personality. The 392 has a nice rumble, sometimes a slight lope at idle, a little rapping on deceleration, and pulls like a mother from idle to 6000 RPM. The 5.7 seems like it is more tuned to be unnoticed, just like any other car out there, unless you start customizing. The suspension and brakes ARE night and day, though. You'll appreciate that coming from a Porsche.

Final observation: I happen to park next to a 911 and a 2015 Mustang most days at work. The difference in physical size is noticeable, but not overwhelming. The new Mustang in particular looks closer in size to a Challenger than the previous generation, though yes, it is definitely lighter. But even the 911 doesn't look like a "little car" next to the Challenger. I'll go out on a limb and say that I really think you should at least test drive a 2015 Mustang. Given what you've said, you'll probably have doubts if you don't. And frankly its a beautiful car and has a lot going for it. I still prefer the Challenger overall, though.
 
#22 · (Edited)
IMO, you are asking questions only you can answer! I don't think I'd buy a Scat Pack until you test drive one. Only takes a few minutes and then you'll know. If you can swing an SRT, test drive one of those too. Even though the SRT is a few pounds heavier than a Scat Pack, to me the SRT drives like a lighter car due to the suspension, tires, and ability to tweak the suspension to what you want.

Having said all that, I've owned everything from Mustangs to Camaros to Corvettes and even a Pontiac Solstice. If you want a usable back seat, don't even bother looking at a Camaro or Mustang: the Challenger is your ONLY choice! Honestly, I think the smaller/lighter cars wear on you more on long drives. The Challenger is a pleasure to drive and about the only time its size shows up is maneuverability in places like parking lots. The Challenger is sure footed and doesn't skip back and forth over road anomalies. The only time you might wish for a lighter car is on a track maxing it out. To be honest, I prefer a solid heavy car like this over a super light car. The really light ones that are set up for performance sometimes feel like you are driving a plastic milk crate.

Edit: one other thing I'd like to mention. I owned a 2005 Corvette, fully loaded but with the base suspension. While that car would edge this one out on a road course, that Corvette had tons of body roll in the corners! The Challenger has near zero body roll even when pushed near the limits and that gives a feeling of confidence.

Mike
 
#23 ·
See I dont know, I have a scat pack and cabin is larger and back seat does have a third spot. But i owned a recent camaro and the leg room is smaller in the camaro, but in general I dont think there is some huge night and day difference, as the camaro is actually a wider car.
 
#24 ·
Coming out of a 370z it was night and day for me to get a Challenger.
The Challenger is a lot more comfortable as far as ride and noise. Handling can't compare and the car feels big.

The benefits are that the car sits up so, unlike the Z and probably a Porsche your not sitting to low when you go to ATM or drive thru, etc.

You will have to just go for extended drive. It take some getting used to the size and for me while the Challenger is only a little slower than the Z I had above about 80. I do miss being able to whip the Z around and feel more planted in the seat and the body movements.
 
#27 ·
Why after 26 posts am I the only one who thinks this guys a troll? "Tired of dragging 4200 pounds around". Really?
 
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#30 ·
Whoa! The response from you guys has been tremendous!..Just being on these boards is a good reason to buy a Challenger..Much appreciated..

I read every reply twice and soaked it all up..With that said, I went and drove a screaming bright orange GT today, alone, without the dealer bothering me.. and really liked it..The color I must say was awesome..never would I like an orange car so much..Without writing a thesis, the engine was strong but not explosive..It felt flat dropping from 5th to 4th, or 4th to third, on the "rivet", and then cracking it..it felt slow getting back up on and into high revs..Anybody feeling me on this?..I want a ****ing explosion! lol..These are just my thoughts as I sit here and type this several hrs later..

It did feel nimble, with quick steering, and tight for a car this size..Looking over the sloping hood was a work of art..

With that said, I called my Dodge dealer right after and told him to write me up a B5 blue Scat Pack/shaker with black 20's and a few other goodies..I would buy it drive and sight unseen if I go with it..I told both dealers I will make up my mind tomorrow, April 23 and buy one..I'll report back here then if anybody's interested..Stay tuned..but I think I know what I'm gonna do.. :wink3:

Supercaliber
 
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#34 ·
#33 ·
As someone else has already said, the Scat Pack Challenger is the only modern retro muscle car that has the feel of the true old school pavement pounding monsters.

When I get into this car, my mind's eye sees my 17 year old hand wrapped around the pistol grip of my old 440 Magnum Challenger. This alone makes it worth every last penny. Soon you will understand exactly what I'm saying. The wow factor you're after lives in this car.
 
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