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Pulled over for 74 in a 60. WTF! I was going 62!

7K views 76 replies 34 participants last post by  wasp392 
#1 ·
Interesting LEO encounter coming home from lunch. I was on a side road and had just turned right onto the main road (60 MPH speed limit). Gave it maybe 1/3 throttle, accelerated briskly, and stopped at 62 MPH and set the cruise at 62. Saw a state LEO on the opposite side of the road maybe 1000 feet later and didn't think anything of it. As I went past him, he pulled out onto the road: still didn't think anything of it. Maybe a half mile later, there he was behind me, lights on. So I signaled and pulled off the right shoulder into the grass to give him room to safely walk up to the driver's window.

He comes up to my passenger window, leans down, and this was the conversation:

LEO: I clocked you at 74 MPH; is there a reason for the speed?
Me: Uh, what? My speed showed 62.
LEO: I got you going 74.
Me: I never go that fast on this road (true) and I know my gauge said 62 and no higher.
LEO: OK, can I see your license and proof of insurance?

Handed him those, he says he'll be right back, and maybe 3 minutes later he came back with "Gonna let you off with a warning this time but watch your speed". I thanked him for the warning but I did end the conversation with:

Me: I'm not being argumentative and appreciate the warning but I swear to you my gauge said 62 and never went any higher. (only reason I said this is maybe his gun is miscalibrated and if he hears it from multiple people, maybe he'll check).
Leo: My radar got you at 74 and we don't just make up speeds.
Me: Thank you. I'm sure your equipment said 74. But mine said 62, so I guess I'll have to double check my gauges to be sure my speedometer is correct. (of course, that was just for his benefit and because I do know when to "take yes for an answer". I know my speedo is dead nuts accurate).

So, as someone who very rarely goes more than 5 over the speed limit (unless passing), I have to ask. It was already going through my mind, "I'm gonna fight this one because HE IS WRONG!". Do you think he clocked someone else? Behind me? In front of me? Do you think he was just pissed because he saw 62 and since, after seeing him, I didn't slow down 2 MPH, he wanted a reason to pull me over? Do you think him quickly coming back with a warning for (what he thought was) 74 in a 60 zone was an indication that he either wasn't sure or was lying?

This begs the question (again), would a dashcam that shows GPS speed help if I had gotten a ticket? Are those even admissable? How would YOU combat being accused of something you didn't do? I know 20 years ago my buddies would always say "Ask to see the speed on the radar gun". I never bit to that "myth" for two reasons: (1) it shows you are implying he's lying and (2) what would it prove anyway since he could have cleared it or even had an old speed from some other car displayed. Never really thought about this because I guess I never thought I'd be pulled over for doing 12 MPH more than I was really doing! Man I wish I had a dashcam so I could share the video!

Mike
 
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#2 · (Edited)
I would only ask to see the speed on the gun if he had issued the citation. There's absolutely no reason to say another word after he issued the warning except to say thank you officer.
I got pulled over a couple years ago at 6am on a Sunday on my way to the track with no one on the freeway by CHP. I was doing 83 in 65. After he issued the citation I asked to see the gun just out of curiosity. It was a laser gun and showed exactly 83. He was sitting on the top of an on ramp and he got me from 1.2 miles away. No reason to say anything else or argue. Guilty as charged. I paid the ticket and did traffic school. My only ticket since I got my car 3 years ago. I've been using the waze app ever since.
Dash cams are an excellent idea and they're admissible in court.


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#4 ·
I would only ask to see the speed on the gun if he had issued the citation. There's absolutely no reason to say another word after he issued the warning except to say thank you officer.
Yeah, not the smartest thing for me to keep talking after that. But I was seriously thinking about other people at that point: what if his equipment has an issue and he ends up giving tickets for +12 over the actual speed? Just thought he should know I wasn't just the typical driver lying about how fast I was going. Maybe it'll prompt him to be sure he gets it right? Anyway, not upset about it since I got a warning, but I should have never been pulled over in the first place.

Mike
 
#3 ·
Cops make mistakes so I guess I'll give him the benefit of the doubt but if he gave you a ticket and it went to court, you are dead meat. Just really no way to beat a ticket if it's your word against the cop's. Judge will side with him nearly every time. Dash cam will help but unless you can convince the judge of its accuracy, might not work. Hard to win in court. Best if you get a big ticket is to get an attorney to make it go away. And I'll agree with above, cop is letting you go all you say is Thank You. You got lucky right there. I knew a guy that talked himself into the ticket that the officer already told him he wasn't going to write.

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#5 ·
Dash cam will help but unless you can convince the judge of its accuracy, might not work. Hard to win in court.http://www.autoguide.com/mobile
Yeah, that's exactly the thought that went through my head. If I had a dashcam, I wonder if they'd throw it out because it can't be "proven" accurate. The cop doesn't have to prove his gun is accurate (and that he got the right car) though. Seems more than a little wrong!

Mike
 
#6 ·
True. The radar and even lasar is old hat now and judges will need to learn the new technology. One day your GPS will be able to spit out a speed log that will show your speed along your route. That would probably work for even the most cynical judge but we not quite there yet.

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#41 · (Edited)
The good and bad thing about that is they will be able to get a warrant and then could pull your driving history for that car. Simple thing is for it to make the driver log in and then you are done. I for one would not want that technology.

As far as the Police goes.. I support them 100%. They have one of the hardest jobs in the world dealing with people who always think they are smarter than them. They never know who is a friend and is who is not so some times people are not greeted with a warm fuzzy do you want a teddy bear encounter. I have no issues with any Officer asking for papers, back ground checks or even pulling me out and frisking me. the way I see it is if you did nothing wrong, have nothing to hide then what is the big deal?

Some people will make a mountain out of a mole hill, I for one say thank you to all the Police Officers out there. I make a mistake i own it..
 
#7 ·
It's not a perfect world Mickey. Who knows what the cop was thinking or his intentions. Maybe that 2 mph was enough to pull you over (reasonable cause) to see if everything was legit with you. They use that tactic at the airports especially at lax now as a "random security check" bs. They'll find anything small like a cracked windshield just to check you out. Maybe he wanted to check out your ride. Who knows. But I know one thing, cops hate smart asses and don't like to be talked backed to.


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#9 ·
It's not a perfect world Mickey. Who knows what the cop was thinking or his intentions. Maybe that 2 mph was enough to pull you over (reasonable cause) to see if everything was legit with you. They use that tactic at the airports especially at lax now as a "random security check" bs. They'll find anything small like a cracked windshield just to check you out. Maybe he wanted to check out your ride. Who knows. But I know one thing, cops hate smart asses and don't like to be talked backed to.


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True. I think I did OK though. Thanked him multiple times regarding the warning and said I appreciated it. I think I did well conveying more of a "scratching my head" dumbfounded feeling: just wondering what happened. I was careful not to come off as argumentative. I have a feeling they get that I have respect for LEO's and maybe he got that from my demeanor: that I wasn't just trying to lie about my speed. I don't lie to cops. Never have. But I suspect many do.

Last time I got a warning was years ago after I had just passed a dump truck (on an otherwise empty road). Didn't realize the SUV behind me was a LEO. He said I was going 80 in (the same) 60 zone. No argument. Wasn't paying attention to my speed until after I had passed the truck and I was just over 80 after I was around him. So I basically just said, "Yeah, you got me there". When he asked for a "reason for the speed", I said the dump truck was going a little under the speed limit and was throwing rocks every time he hit a bump, which was true. Gave me a written warning.

So I consider myself lucky WRT law enforcement. This was more of a question that made me wonder what to do if I had gotten a bogus ticket. Kinda made me realize they can claim anything and get away with it. The video of the cops catching the wrong Challenger came to mind too!

Mike
 
#8 · (Edited)
I got pulled over twice for talking on a cell phone and I didn't even have my phone with me.
I'm a retired FDNY Lt, so I'm always polite to cops except when dealing with a dick.
ME: "Officer, I don't even have a phone, feel free to search my car"
COP: I don't care my partner saw you talking on a cell phone. License and reg.
Pulled out my FD I.D. instead.
COP: Why didn't you say so in the first place.
ME: "Don't want to be a smartass, but maybe your partner should get his eyes checked"
ME: "Thank you officer, have a nice day"
 
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#10 ·
I agree --- the old license plate lite is out pullover. Or the you were mythically "weaving" storyline.


I`m pretty sure there are police officers as members on this site so it would be nice to hear from them if they care to chime in.


Or they may prefer to keep their anonymity.
 
#11 ·
Yeah, there's a lot of "could be" here. If there was another vehicle nearby and he was using radar instead of lidar, he may have stopped the wrong one. Radar issues could be out of calibration, cosine effect, stationary reading while in moving mode (car mounted, not handheld). Normally a bad radar reading is obvious. For instance, 18 wheelers often read at double actual speed while using stationary mode on a multiple band system. If he didn't actually observe that speed, his possible motives to stop you are too many to speculate, as are the reasons for the quick warning. We can only hope that it was an honest mistake.

I assume you don't have after market/larger than OEM wheels?

As far as recorded GPS speed goes, it is a good witness. But it's not a guaranteed not guilty if you used it in court. It can be argued that unlike the radar, it isn't certified calibration. As far as being admissible, it's up to the judge and if the states attorney object.

You can ask to see the radar reading, but you're right, it's pointless. He doesn't have to show you, it could have been cleared, and the highest alleged speed may not have been locked.

Fighting an undeserved ticket involves a lot of questions we don't have answers to. Such what speed detection system he was using, is he certified in that system, is that system integrated into the in car video.
 
#14 ·
When I bought my Charger in 07 I got pulled over 2 weeks after buying it. The cop pulled me over and then instead of asking me for my registration/insurance he went to my windshield and ran my vin. He never asked for my info, after a few minutes he said i could go, I asked him he pulled me over and he said we thought your car was stolen. I couldn't believe that, I asked him for his badge number and he just left. I was pissed.
 
#49 · (Edited)
In our area there have been a rash of car thefts in the area. They have been targeting older mustangs and even a full-on racing spec 911 that was hijacked from the trailor it was in.

being pulled over to check the VIN is not out of the question and the officer is just doing his job.

In fact every officer in the area now knows my car. My wife's car was robbed (we got it on Video) the other day. The Sergeant came out, watched the video, had forensics come out to dust the car. Asked to see my car inside and out, Said it's a man's dream car. Forensics kid said the Sergeant almost never leaves his desk, he was very surprised that the Sergeant was out on the road that day. They shared the video around and one of the officers knows the car that was used in to rob my wife's car. (believe it or not, our apartment sits right next to our cars, and she had her keys in her purse in our bedroom and it was close enough that the thief could activate the doors. Keyless entry, bleah.)

They all love my car. I was surprised as hell when they sent someone out to dust for prints. Last time I had a car broken into, they said it was too expensive to do it for such a trivial thing, but that was years ago in a different city. Not all police officers are bad guys. I've had bad run-ins too with officers, but not since I moved here. New Orleans and Los Angeles were my most notable bad experiences with cops. Go figure, they also USED to be some of the most corrupt as well.

I was pulled over once for speeding (and I was), because my wife was sick and left her insulin at home, I was rushing to get her home and the female officer let us go with a warning and was very nice about it and even escorted us home at a pretty high rate of speed so she could get her insulin.

But this is South Carolina, where there is a very high rate of car enthusiasts. and the officers at least are a little more laid back (mostly).

If I'm speeding and I know it, I'll admit to it and that's the end of it. Sometimes you have to pay to play. If I know I'm NOT speeding. I'll let the officer know, and politely ask him if his radar gun was calibrated and if I can see what it clocked me at. We are allowed to ask these questions and receive an answer at the stop. It's all in how you ask. While I've never had to deal with this situation I would just simply use the excuse that if his equipment really clocked me at that speed then I need to get my car checked out to make sure the speedometer is calibrated correctly. Something like that will usually make them more agreeable to your request. But for a warning, I would not say anything besides Thank You.

If you are speeding in a school or work zone though, forget about it. Even if it's 1mph over, you'll have to pay the fine and there's almost no getting out of it.
 
#15 · (Edited)
I had a similar instance where I was in a 40mph zone, both dash gauge and Trinty showed me doing 45. LEO pulled me over said he got me on radar doing 55 in a 40, told him no sir I was doing 45, he took my info and came back with the ticket and it said 50 and method of verification was pacing. So not sure if he was looking for a reason to pull me over or what but it sucked. Got a lawyer and got out of it, but still sucked it happened, haven't been pulled over in well over 20 years

Glad yours worked out.
-Kenny
 
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#17 · (Edited)
Oh, I just remembered something I left out. After I let him know that I really did see 62 as my speed, he commented, "You looked at it when you saw me; I clocked you well before that: thousands of feet down the road". Now at that point, I did just shut my mouth, thanked him, and drove off. What I wanted to say was, "Sir, I had just accelerated up to speed from Lorraine Road and 62 was my maximum speed. Thousands of feet before I saw you, I was going even slower than 62". But there's no point: at that point, he's just going to perceive me as being argumentative because he thinks he's right. Then I think I'd be at risk of him asking me to wait again and bringing back paying papers. So I did at least know when to drop it. ;)

Mike
 
#18 · (Edited)
Up until I got my SRT, I think I'd gotten maybe ONE warning in 30 years of driving. Everything else (maybe 6 times over 30 years) I got a ticket, and yes it was usually deserved. But since I've had the SRT, I've gotten TWO warnings, both of them when I was absolutely not going but maybe 3-4 over the limit.

Its the car. It skews LEOs perceptions and decisions, and I think that's what happened to you too.


In one case it was deep west Texas on I10 where the limit is 80 and the officer actually said he stopped me for 83 (!). I had my cruise set and he followed me for a mile or two- I never slowed, never accelerated. He was perfectly nice, but I was dumbfounded to be stopped for so little over the limit and then to just get a warning. LEOs don't often deliberately waste their own time. Maybe he wanted to get a better look at me thinking I was some young punk or maybe he could make a drug bust (I'm >50, pretty darn non-threatening, and had my wife with me and a back seat full of snacks and luggage). No idea, really- didn't make any sense. But I'll take the warning.

The second time, I was exiting a freeway and pulled into the inside lane beside a trooper who was on the service road in the center lane. I needed to cross to the outside lane of the service road to make my next turn, so I *very* slowly (like walking speed) pulled in front of the trooper, signalled, and changed lanes. And got lit up... Pulled over, and she was pretty snarky about "you know what the limit was back there??" (I honestly didn't, and pointed out that I was going basically the same speed she was.) "No you weren't! You passed me!" I politely said that I was sorry that I didn't know the limit, and that I would have dropped in behind her if there hadn't been a long line of cars stacked up behind her, and my turn was coming up. She chewed on that a bit, ran my info, and gave me a warning, but never got a better attitude about it. IN that case, I think it was just an ego thing. "How DARE someone in a car like that pull right in front of me, I'm a trooper!" I have ZERO doubt that if I'd been in my Jeep she'd have ignored me. My car is white with red stripes, and on the warning guess what color she wrote down? Yep. RED. Totally skewed perception on her part because of the type of car. I think the warning was because she kinda realized that, realized that nothing I did was reckless or endangered anyone, and also realized that since I was politely explaining a rational reason for what I did that I would have fought that one in court.
 
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#19 ·
If I remember right-it's been about thirty years since I worked on the police force-I thought we always calibrated the gun each time we went out to use it-if you can't show that the gun was calibrated ,then your going to have any tickets issued ,dismissed by the judge-that's if the people contest it and go to traffic court-if they just pay the fine-then that's it-pretty sure the traffic guys used to calibrate it reguarly
 
#20 ·
The officer checks for calibration per manufacturer instructions, usually using tuning forks, and most modern systems have an internal system check. It takes specialized equipment and training to actually change and set the calibration. This is usually done by someone that doesn't work for the agency. My agency does it twice a year.
 
#21 ·
The manufacturers have forever propagated the myth that a radar never lies and they have made that myth the prevailing belief. Many things can cause an inaccurate speed reading and if there is a false reading you are just a victim of random chance. Also there is the "certified speed estimators" scam here.
 
#24 ·
Radar does not have the ability to "lie". It can give an incorrect speed, however, from a number of factors. Now, what manufacturer ever said that radar is never wrong, and to whom have they supposedly propagated that to? I have never heard this.
And what is a "certified speed estimators " scam?
Please share your knowledge and clarify.
 
#26 ·
With today's electronics, I would be surprised if the equipment is more than 1 or 2 MPH off. I know nothing about radar/lidar guns but you'd think by now, they wouldn't be using tuning forks and they'd be self-calibrating. :) Anyway, I think either he shot something going 74 and it wasn't me, or maybe more likely, he heard me accelerating from that stop and just figured I must be speeding! Maybe he did just make up a number to see how I'd react even though he insisted he didn't.

It still surprises me how loud these 2015's are. I had to pick up my 12 year old son and his friend from school yesterday because the bus broke down. On the way home, I punched it to merge into traffic which was pretty heavy that day. My son's friend who had never ridden in the car before said, "Holy CRAP that was LOUD! This thing could probably get to 100 in like 3 seconds." :) A bit optimistic, but maybe that's what happened with this officer: he heard the roar and just assumed I had to be speeding. Who knows. He was likely close enough to hear it at 1/3 throttle. Just a normal takeoff for me, not pushing it, but he might have messed with me just due to how menacing it sounds, thinking I was "playing". I make it a point to go 1/2 throttle or more from a takeoff at least a few times a week because these things will drive like a granny if you don't. Kinda hard to do if I'm gonna be harassed just for brisk acceleration.

Mike
 
#47 ·
brisk acceleration.


heh. they call that "exhibition of speed" -- basically, if they can't cite a specific reckless act or specify an over-the-limit speed reading. Chirp a tire on takeoff? That's exhibition of speed. Accelerate right up to (..but, not over) the speed limit, and reach it before (or shortly after) crossing the intersection at which you were stopped? That's exhibition of speed. (in physics class, we might call that 'exhibition of acceleration', but cops and legislators are not physicists. NB: neither are traffic court judges)
 
#27 ·
Reading the replies on this thread, I'm not sure I want to throw my two cents in, but I will give my perspective and information regarding Radar/Lidar. For those that have commented about radar, it's calibration, tuning forks and accuracy I can say that police officers don't check the calibration of the equipment. Police officers are trained to test the unit at the start and end of their shifts for function. Tuning forks issued along with a a specific unit are set to read an exact speed when struck and held in front of the radar unit. If the radar gives anything other than the speed set for the specific tuning fork the device isn't functioning properly and needs to be sent back to the manufacture to be re-calibrated. All things being equal, if the unit gives a speed reading and is functioning properly, something is going that speed. It is the responsibility of the officer to make a visual estimate of the vehicles speed and then verify that speed with the radar unit. The radar can pick up vehicle speed to include fastest, biggest or closest. How far is the vehicle from you in relation to other traffic, and is it a semi vs honda civic as the radar will probable pick the semi up if it is closer than a faster small vehicle. I spent 27 years in L.E. with 14 of those on motors. I'm fairly familiar with both radar and lidar. I never liked locking speed because I wanted to see tracking history, was the vehicle maintaining speed or speeding up or slowing down. Again, depending on what part of the country you live in you may find officers that aren't trained as well as others and they may be using equipment they are not trained to use. Now, all of you. I'm retired, so nobody needs to be a hater....
 
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#30 ·
I'm a motorcycle officer in Raleigh NC. There are so many possibility's here it would take a whole post to explain it. Could have been another vehicle. If there was a 18 wheeler around you it would have picked that up. The instrument(radar) is supposed to be calibrated after every stop and at the beginning and end of every shift. ( that never happens ) You could also as to see his radar certification. Prob not a good thing to ask for if he let you go with a warning. I only stop if it's 15 or more mph over the limit. And yes his credibility will account for more than yours in court, that's just how it rolls. And when I'm not on duty I'm tearing it up in my B5 2015 SRT 392.
 
#32 ·
To calibrate would imply that you can adjust or change the way the radar unit will register speed. I think you probably know that, but when you state it the way you just did it gives these folks the impression that we can alter the way the unit reads vehicle speed. I would think you probably test for function with tuning forks after every stop, which is something you should do. By the way, love your car. I have its twin.
 
#35 ·
So after time and time again of being harassed by cops in the northern NJ area (following me for the slightest excuse to pull me over) and after seeing that challenger pulled over after being mistakenly identified for another challenger, I invested $300 in a hidden front and rear dash cam equipped with a GPS for data logging. I've carefully installed it and hid away the cables to the best of my ability and it looks freaking cool. I haven't tried this yet, but I'm sure you can hook it up to your Nav and have the picture display there. Anyways, here are some pics....! Purple Water Design Pattern Cg artwork
Automotive exterior Automotive mirror Rear-view mirror Vehicle Windshield
Vehicle Car Windshield Automotive exterior Technology
Sky Automotive exterior Vehicle Windshield Tree



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#36 ·
Don't particularly care for cops, most of them have a giant stick up their butt. Power corrupts, some more than others, just the way it is unfortunately.

I always act nice, but I think I've been pulled over maybe twice in the past 10 years. Really lucky I suppose.

And the Valentine 1 is the best thing ever.
 
#39 · (Edited)
And the Valentine 1 is the best thing ever.
I have one that's been sitting in a desk drawer for 10 years. I should probably sell it because I don't need it. But the thought did run through my mind: I bet if I had a radar detector, I would have gotten a ticket instead of a warning. It wouldn't have changed whether I got pulled over or not since I was within 2 MPH of the speed limit. But when he stopped me and saw that, I bet I would have gotten a ticket. Detectors, unless hidden, are one of those things that are good to have... unless you get pulled over. Then when the cop walks up to the car, you wish it wasn't there.

The thing I really want now is a dashcam. But there are so many possibilities I really don't know what to get. And even the ones rated solid 5 stars on Amazon look like they have descriptions written in broken ingrish and there are still a few people who claim that model broke after only a few days. I just want a small tuck-away unit that can be mounted behind the mirror with GPS and auto-operation (no touch, just let it run) with a cable long enough to run down the pillars out of the way. I'd want to pop out the microSD only when something like this happens.

Mike
 
#37 ·
My court date is less than a month away, but I've an option to meet with the prosecutor first for early resolution.

I dont give a damn about the few hundred bucks, or the points on my license, but I've never run across a more ignorant, rude ***** than the one that pulled me over.

What offends me the most is she asked me for my PAPERS...like we were in the Soviet Russia of old....MY PAPERS? Thats just offensive.

When she came up to the window, the ONLY thing I said was good morning. Her response was "the highest I clocked you at was..." I said nothing, then the ***** asked for my PAPERS.

Came back with a ticket..not a word spoken...as the gorilla was walking away I said "were you pacing me"? she says "no, I have moving radar, you can take it to court if you want" Thats it, the entire interaction wrapped up in two sentences.

Before we get in to the hating aspect, last night I had 2 units, 4 cops next door. Unrelated matter. One team wandered over and said "that your car"? I introduced myself, shook both their hands (male \ female) and shot the breeze with them for 15 minutes.

As I've said before, cops are just people, the problem lies in the fact that they have the power to ruin your day \ life in a BIG way if they feel like it.
 
#38 ·
If you go to trial ask for her certification, ask if she guessed your speed and what that number was. It must be within 3 mph. That will make her squirm a little. If she stumbles and can't give an answer immediately then that would be reasonable doubt that she did not calculate your speed properly. Judge might just toss it.
 
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