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20s or No 20s

4K views 30 replies 15 participants last post by  Nuke 
#1 ·
I've been agonizing over this for weeks and have scanned the threads looking for some divine guidance. It's one of those decisions that you do your best not to second guess yourself after the deed is done.

The Cruise Night season is starting up out here and I'm hoping to talk to some experienced Challenger owners to get their feedback also.

Purchased my 2015 SXT with chrome clad 18's and never really though much about 20's until I started reading the forums. Now I realize how really great the 20s look.

As many of you know, I'm looking at a minimum $2000 investment if I decide to upgrade.

My past research has helped me realize that bigger wheels won't do much to negatively affect the ride, handling or speedometer functions in my Challenger. The one issue that I keep returning to is the fact that I've not read anything at all negative about mitigating from 18s to 20s and that sounds to good to be true. I did read somewhere that the SXTs that come from the factory with 20s and A8 transmissions have different rear end gear ratios.

My last ride was a 2006 Corvette with the Z51 handling package and I can't imagine any changes I could make to my Challenger would yield a firmer ride than that.

I'm looking for a few Devil's advocates to enlighten me on any issues I should really be concerned with if I make the switch to 20s.

Any and all advice is welcomed.

Thank you,

S A E T T A
 
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#2 ·
If I were you, go to the dealer and measure the height of an R/T-SRT 20" tire/wheel. I don't think they are that much taller, so you rear gear won't have to be changed. There are plenty of members selling factory tire /wheel packages in the classifieds on here, so your target number of $2k is in reach.
 
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#7 ·
if i were you go to the dealer and measure the height of an rt-srt 20" tire /wheel but i don't think they are that much taller so you rear gear won't have changed.there are plenty of members selling factory tire /wheel packages in the classifieds on here so you target number of 2k is in reach

I did a little research at Tirerack.com and came up with that number, including TPMS, mounting and shipping. Chrome 20s with all-season rubber. It was basically for budgetary reasons at this point.
 
#3 ·
I did read somewhere that the SXTs that come from the factory with 20s and A8 transmissions have different rear end gear ratios.
This is true. The larger wheels and tires are harder to get moving so Dodge uses a 3.07 axle in place of the normal 2.62 with 18's. They are also harder to stop so the standard SXT 12.6 inch single piston front brakes with solid rears are upgraded to the R/T's 13.6 inch dual piston front with vented rear rotors. You will be ok with the swap just keep in mind the difference in factory equipment when it comes to acceleration and braking.



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#9 ·
The size of the wheel has nothing to do with the speedometer calibration. It is the overall diameter of the wheel/tire combination. You can research online what diameter you have and will buy and exactly how much effect it will have.
 
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#13 ·
For daily driving the 20's will be fine. If you start racing on the other hand 20's will hold you back. As big as our cars are I do not understand why 20's are not standard this day and age. This is a bit more cost involved but not a lot and most people would ante up a few hundred bucks to get them. Its mostly the marketing scheme and in order to get the wheels you have to buy the next level up with bigger brakes, stereo, seats, etc.
 
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#15 ·
I've been agonizing over this for weeks and have scanned the threads looking for some divine guidance. It's one of those decisions that you do your best not to second guess yourself after the deed is done.

The Cruise Night season is starting up out here and I'm hoping to talk to some experienced Challenger owners to get their feedback also.

Purchased my 2015 SXT with chrome clad 18's and never really though much about 20's until I started reading the forums. Now I realize how really great the 20s look.

As many of you know, I'm looking at a minimum $2000 investment if I decide to upgrade.

My past research has helped me realize that bigger wheels won't do much to negatively affect the ride, handling or speedometer functions in my Challenger. The one issue that I keep returning to is the fact that I've not read anything at all negative about mitigating from 18s to 20s and that sounds to good to be true. I did read somewhere that the SXTs that come from the factory with 20s and A8 transmissions have different rear end gear ratios.

My last ride was a 2006 Corvette with the Z51 handling package and I can't imagine any changes I could make to my Challenger would yield a firmer ride than that.

I'm looking for a few Devil's advocates to enlighten me on any issues I should really be concerned with if I make the switch to 20s.

Any and all advice is welcomed.

Thank you,

S A E T T A
Okay, I have gone through this very thing on two different Challengers, so I think I can offer up some of the info I managed to gather together while trying to decide for myself.

(Remember, this is all worst case scenario type stuff; I'm playing Devil's advocate as you requested. Don't think I am trying to talk you out of the upgrade, just make sure you have plenty of info before doing it)

If you do go from the factory 18" wheels & tires to a 20" wheel & tire, these are the things you should try to do in order to avoid any unnecessary headaches or problems:

1) If at all possible/plausible, try to find a set of factory 20" rims to go with instead of some aftermarket el-cheapo brand you've never heard of, but they are really good price so you got them anyway. The factory 20" wheels were made to work with these cars, and manufactured with a modicum of quality standards in mind, and can be trusted to serve you well in times of extreme stress. The same cannot always be said for some of the aftermarket wheels available out there (read: Made in China).

2) Try to run the OE tire size from the factory 20" rims on your new rims (no matter what rims you decide upon). For on these cars I believe that is 245/45/20 or something similar (I could be wrong there, but it's easy to look up to verify). That will ensure that your speedo isn't thrown out of whack by the change in wheel/tire size.
(Because the factory 18" rims with 235/55/18 tires are roughly the same diameter as the factory 20" rims with their OE tires - both 27.x inches IIRC, which is all the speedo cares about).

3) If you do decide to go with an aftermarket rim instead of one of the factory 20" models, make sure to pay attention to the weight of each wheel you are considering for purchase, and buy the absolute lightest one of all the ones you like. Or at the very least, do not buy a 20" wheel that is significantly heavier than your current 18" wheels.

Not many people pay attention to this spec when shopping wheels, but it is a very important one to know if you are putting them on a base model Challenger, e.g. standard sized brakes, standard suspension, high-geared rear-end, and no-torque-having-engine.

The thing to remember is that any extra weight added to the wheel/tire combo is 4x worse than that same amount of dead weight just thrown in the trunk because it is unsprung weight that the car is going to have to get moving from a dead stop and conversly bring to a dead stop when already moving at high velocity.

In other words, 8 extra lbs. on each corner of the car means 32 extra pounds of unsprung weight the car's suspension and brakes have to deal with, and while it doesn't sound like much, it WILL make a difference. Especially when you consider the brakes, suspension, rear-gears, and engine of these base model Challengers that is having to do the extra work now.

Will the car be able to handle that extra weight at each corner, sure. Would you see negative effects over time, most likely. In the short term, you'll probably lose some MPGs, and the braking distances will also increase, though they would likely be small enough as to go unnoticed without actual measurements being performed. Also, don't forget the slower acceleration, but there again, it probably wouldn't be noticed unless a bunch of 0-60 runs were performed and timed precisely.

All of that is certainly acceptable I think though, espeically if you really like the look of the 20" rims on these cars, and I think most people agree they look better with them. If you are racing the car, then maybe those draw-backs are not going to be acceptable, but then again, if you're racing one of these base trim Challengers, you have bigger things to worry about I think.

Now if you ever decide to upgrade in the future to some 22" wheels or something, now you absolutely are going be putting more stress on a base trim Challenger's suspension, brakes, etc. Not to mention some really heavy 22" wheels and tires might start to really drag the car down in terms of acceleration and really increase the braking distances in a noticable fashion.

Any upgrade that drastic should be carefully planned in my opinion so as not to negatively affect the driving experience that the SE/SXTs has to offer.

</end sermon>
 
#16 ·
Okay, I have gone through this very thing on two different Challengers, so I think I can offer up some of the info I managed to gather together while trying to decide for myself.

...

</end sermon>
The TL;DR of that post is in large part, "pay attention to any replacement wheels' weight, and try to minimize any increase in that per/wheel weight." And in an effort to really drive that point home, here's a perfeclty reasonable scenario I would like the OP to consider:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's say you have decided to pull the trigger on the 20" upgrade, and you don't know which ones you want yet, so you start shopping around right away...and eventually land on the Tire Rack website.

Search &compare; search & compare; rinse repeat...then BAM!! You find the ones you want, and immediatly fall in love with them.

And let's say that you liked them so much that you immediately add 4 of them to your shopping cart, submit he purchase order, and then start waiting by the door for them to arrive.

Well, if you thought waiting several days by the front door for the wheels to show up was tough, it wont' be nearly as tough as your first test drive in the car after having the wheels mounted with tires and put on the car.

Nothing will "feel" right while driving the car...it brakes sluggish and takes off from stop lights even more sluggish. Not to mention it now tries bail out on corners at high speeds, and just generally doesn't feel like the same car all of a sudden. So what's the deal??

Well, you neglected to check the wheels' weight before purchasing them. If you had, you would have seen what the problem was going to be right away:
Alloy wheel Rim Wheel Auto part Spoke


Holy crap on a cracker!! That is close to, if not right at, 20 lbs heavier than your stock rims are...so if you get those rims mounted with some tires and put on your Challenger, you will have about 20 lbs MORE unsprung mass at each corner of your car. That could end up borderline dangerous for a non-high-perf car like the SXT if it were operated in a high-performance fashion for too long, IMHO.

And as I said earlier, you WILL be able to tell a difference in acceleration, braking, cornering, ride quality, etc. if you go with rims that are 20 lbs heavier than the stock ones, per wheel.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now obviously that was a contrived scenario I purposly concocted (by sorting the available 20" rims by weight and then chosing the heaviest one) as an example of what could happen if you don't do your due diligence when shopping which of the wheels you are going to buy.

But my trickery aside, the underlying point I am hoping to make is still an important one - you could very easily have a significant and negative impact your car's performance and overall driving experience, just by upgrading to a set of 20" rims. And that would be a bitter pill to swallow if the upgrade's main purpose was only to make the car "look" better.

Your stock 18" wheels are in the neighborhood of 22-24 lbs IIRC, so if you can keep your new wheels below 33 lbs or so, I think you'll be just fine.

You may be even able to push it to 35-36 lbs. per wheel since you have the latest and greatest technology and parts designs on your fancy 2015 model SXT (meaning I wouldn't want to try it on my 2010 SE). But going beyond that would not be advisable IMO.

Oh yeah, and don't forget to take some pics of the finished product and put them in a thread in the wheel section for us too peep the results!

Good luck!!

(Damnit, I swore to myself that I woud NOT allow this post to grow into an e-novel like the last one, but here I am again...hmm, that usually means I'm trying to avoid some unpleasant work, which now that I think about it, yets, I am..so back to the Classic ASP debugging I must go!)
 
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#19 ·
The only issue I can think of would be if the 18" setup's overall tire/wheel diameter is more than 3% difference from the 20" setup's diameter. Can't remember why, but 3% is the cutoff, beyond that, you'll need to get the tune adjusted with the new specs to keep the speedo and other stuff working like they should be.
 
#18 ·
The OEM factory 18's fit on all R/T's with 5.7L engine, up until 2015 the 18 was the standard R/T wheel and 20's were optional. Aftermarket wheels you would be on your own but the specs of the factory 20 is 20x8, +24 mm offset, 115x5 bolt pattern and 71.5 mm bore centerline.

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#20 ·
Thank you ALL for the tremendous amount of information that you've graciously shared. It is exactly what I had hoped for. I now really have a great base of knowledge to fall back on.

It's apparent that the issue of unsprung wheel weight is crucial and will be front and center in my decision on the 20s.

Upgrading the brakes sounds like a good idea and I need to adjust my budget as part of the change over to 20s.

The message about OEM wheels came through loud and clear. I'm partial to chrome 5-spokes (no Cragar SS wheels at 20 inches -- damn) and Mopar did a great job with their versions.

Any thoughts about chrome clads? They seem to be everywhere these days, including some six-figure vehicles. I certainly understand the positive attributes (e.g., no rust, less chance of chipping, etc.) and I'm starting to get over the "almost hub-cap" aspect of them. It seems that they've become pretty standard in OEM circles and I'm wondering how well they've been accepted in the enthusiast community. To be honest, and I'm a gear head from the late '60s and early '70s, I didn't realize that my factory 18s were cladded until I got the car home from the dealership. I've seen some clad 20s, advertised as OEM, for sale and can't get comfortable with the concept so far.

Any thoughts?

Thank you

S A E T T A
 
#21 ·
So your Challenger has 18" chrome clads? Interesting...very interesting...mostly for me though, not necessarily for this dicussion.

I did not actually know that Dodge produced any chrome clads in the 18" size until yesterday. I always thought if they were chrome clad dodge wheels, that meant they were always going to be 20".

Anyway, I found out quite by accident that there some 18" CCs on some Chargers and Magnums a few years back, but I did not see any mention of the Challengers getting them as factory optional wheels...huh, guess you truly do learn something new every day.

Anyway, I will say this in relation to your question about accpetance of the CC wheels: I have always liked the way they looked on the Challengers, but I have only ever seen 20" CCs on these cars. When I looked for some pictures of Challengers in the wild with 18" CCs on them yesterday, I could only find two, and I honestly thought they did not look right for these cars.

That seems odd since I liked the look of the wheel in the first place, especially on these cars. So I don't know why the 18" versions turned me off so much, but that was just my gut reaction at the two cars I saw with them.

One other thing: I was assuming you had the standard alloy rally rims that all the other base models got for so many years, so that's what I was using when I spouted off my best recollection of their weight. If you have the 18" CCs, those numbers won't be the same. I don't know how much they'll differ, but you really should find out before you do any serious shopping.

Best way would be to pull a tire and wheel and weigh them. Then go to a website that sells the tire and find the tire's spec'd weight. Then subtract that from the total you obtained for both tire and wheel, and violin! You got your 18" CCs weight.

Either that or just do some fancy DuckDuckGo'ing (or you can use Google if you prefer), that might be quicker...but not nearly as much fun!
 
#23 ·
the chrome clads are fine except if you scrub a curb and crack or break the plastic insert you will have to replace the rim.but there are a lot of them for sale.i was just like you where i got home and washed the car and realized the wheels were plastic.i looked at a lot of rims and just liked the way the car looks with the heritage classics and thats what i ended up with.as for the brake thing i would put the 20" tire/wheel on the car and take it out for a drive and see what happens.
 
#29 ·
I wouldn't do it. Personally, I don't like the look of 20s. Too much wheel to tire, and generally the offset is pretty wimpy. They come off looking more like the wheels on a stagecoach or a steam locomotive, all tall and skinny then tucked way under. But taste is subjective and if youre into that, nothing I can say will change your mind on that preference.

However, the guys telling you about how they'll affect the way your car drives are 100% correct. My Rumble Bee had the factory 20s when I got it, and I hated those clown shoe boat anchors more than you can possibly imagine. When I went to the 17" TTOs you see in my sig pic, the difference in how my truck accelerates, handles and rides is night and day. Even with a McGaugheys 2/4 spring/axle flip lowering kit which is MUCH firmer than stock, I can just tell that the suspension is relieved of all that weight. The old tires/wheels weighed close to 100lbs each. That DEFINITELY affects the driving dynamics. Because, you know....physics.
 
#31 ·
As long as the car's ride height was properly adjusted for the 22" wheels in the rear, it would probably look pretty good. But if they are just swapped out into a stock suspension with OE ride height, I think it would be a little awkward looking. The whole wheel well would be filled up with rim and tire, but there would still be blank space above the top of the tire - not a good look IMHO for wheels that large.

For 22" and above, you pretty much have to drop the car down to eliminate the blank space above the tires and below the wheel wells, otherwise the eye is drawn to the wrong areas of the profile instead of to the overall bad-assness of the car's profile like it should be.

That's my view on the scenario; everybody probably has their own though, but if you cannot find any example pics, you may just have to try it out somehow in real life to see if you like it...either that or do some fancy photoshopping to make your own example pics to look at before committing.
 
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