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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 12-13-2012, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by HEMIZSP View Post
Gm workers hourly salary = $72/hr
Toyota workers hourly salary = $32/hr

I might b off a $ or two

Gm needed to get bailed out while Toyota shot to #1

Hey at least "gm lived and Osama is dead"



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The quality should show then. Does it actually? I'm not sure because I've become a Dodge fan boy since the Challenger was released .

It is interesting that blue state of Michigan has an elected Republican governor and that legislation like this passes.





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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 12-13-2012, 06:16 AM
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I think you'll find more pot smoking drunks working in upper management in ALL kinds of companies! You just don't hear about them.
No I am not a union member, I'm considered management.

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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 12-13-2012, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by HEMIZSP View Post
Gm workers hourly salary = $72/hr
Toyota workers hourly salary = $32/hr

I might b off a $ or two

Gm needed to get bailed out while Toyota shot to #1

Hey at least "gm lived and Osama is dead"



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Where did you get your pay information from?
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 12-13-2012, 06:41 AM
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Here is the bottom line on this issue. Workers should have the right to either join the union or NOT! Put the money and workplace safety issue aside. There have been arguements about company abuse, but what about Union abuse? Before right to work, once a union is in, they own the jobs. You could not get rid of a bad union. Right to work now makes the Unions accountable to their membership and that is what it is all about. This is all about the people, not the union. There is a difference!
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 12-13-2012, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by dun4791 View Post




Where did you get your pay information from?
according to factcheck that rate would include hourly pay, benefits, medical, retirement etc.
UAW reports average hourly rate for their members to be $29
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by IDMTfirefighter View Post
according to factcheck that rate would include hourly pay, benefits, medical, retirement etc.
UAW reports average hourly rate for their members to be $29
This also presents a huge philosophical problem for unions. One would think that they would want all workers to be part of a union. They might argue that some people are not earning enough and need a 'living wage' as justification. The problem is if everyone's wage shifted up 20% or so, then the money that union workers currently get paid would be worth less as prices would be higher. This would mean they got no financial gain. Sure, the union bosses win since they got membership dues but the employee did not move forward.

From a financial perspective only, I equate unions to thieves. If everyone was a thief, then no one would work since you would just be earning for someone else to steal it. Then all the thieves go out of business. Thieves depend on honest people as the thief is a parasite. If the host dies, so does the critter attached to it. THe parasite needs the honest person to keep trying and succeeding. In an odd sense, union members would want to only be the only unionized people. They would not want anyone or company outside their little sphere to be unionized. They want more money but they want to buy things from other non-union shops so their money has the most power. I bet there is not much honor among thieves these days. You might hear that they are a brotherhood but I bet they shop at Amazon and Walmart just like the rest of us.
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:45 AM
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if it wasn't for unions, we'd all be working 16 hours days 6 days a week for a dollar a day. if you think a black hearted corporation would treat you better you are a fool.
stories like this are published to divide and disrupt the labor market to make it easier to control us. in a capitalist country such as ours, labor is a necessary evil that only eats into profits.
i don't agree with everything my company, my union, my government or for that matter my wife does. but i know that they all play a role in affording me my 2012 dodge challenger.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by krzywinski View Post
if it wasn't for unions, we'd all be working 16 hours days 6 days a week for a dollar a day. if you think a black hearted corporation would treat you better you are a fool.
stories like this are published to divide and disrupt the labor market to make it easier to control us. in a capitalist country such as ours, labor is a necessary evil that only eats into profits.
i don't agree with everything my company, my union, my government or for that matter my wife does. but i know that they all play a role in affording me my 2012 dodge challenger.
I think there are specific reasons for having a union but none of them are regarding pay or benefits. Some valid reasons include:
  • Countering management fraud
  • getting reasonable working conditions
The mere fact that we are doing a salary comparison of union to non union is total BS. By that measure, maybe we should be paying $15/hr for cashiers to work at the Kwikie mart! Your pay and benefit package should be dictated by the marketplace for 99% of jobs.


I think it is crazy that people can belong to a union that was voted in 70+ years ago when conditions were different. Now it is impossible to get rid of the union without bankruptcy. There should be reasonable counter measures inplace for deunionizing if the environment dictates this to be a better option.


I make no bones about management being black hearted but they just respond to the environment they are in. The fact is the customer is the most black hearted of all. Someone sells something for a penny less, people follow. That is just how it is. WE shop at Walmart and Amazon. I personally like both organization. They sell for less and the public demands it. They enable the few dollars we have to go much farther. They make dollars go farther by keeping costs down. SOme of that is by making employees work long hours and strange shifts. Again, this is filling a public demand. Everyone has a boss except God.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 12-13-2012, 11:13 AM
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Rscarawa makes good points. Unionns, like government have their pkace. If either get too big or too much power, it can have negative and far reaching impact.
I for one would rather do the best job I can and not oay someone to "allow" me to work in their industry/priffession. As I said I live in a right to work state. I have never had a problem keeping my job. Im paid well, have giod benifits and retirement.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:18 AM
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salaries are set by market forces even for union members. mechanics at united make about the same as delta, even though delta is non union.
i've belonged to three different unions here at united and each time we voted a union in there has been a place on the ballot for 'none'. but 'none' has never come close to winning.
i agree that we live in a wal-mart world that seems to be racing to the bottom. but you and i both bought a challenger when we could have bought something cheaper, with better gas mileage and made in korea. i'm sure our reasons for buying are different, but the fact that we didn't says something about us.
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