A honest question to the manual tranny fan(atic)s...;)

[Legion681]

First of all, I'd like to say that I have driven manuals for 20 years (in Europe. Over there basically everybody has cars with manuals...even though it's changing a bit these days) and now I switched to an auto and I see in my future a vehicle with some semiautomatic tranny, say a DSG or SMG...

Now, I just came across a discussion on another website about the upcoming Mitsubishi Evo X sporting a dual clutch semi auto transmission, basically something very similar, if not identical, to VW's DSG and saw tons of posts complaining about it, asking for a 6 speed manual for various reasons.

Now my question to you, super fanatics of the manual gearbox, is this:
why are you so attached, almost for dear life, to the manual tranny instead of the latest tech like DSG and SMG ?

I mean, with a DSG you can have:
- the same level of control that you have with a manual (yes, it holds a gear for as long as you like it).
- it's not an auto, it doesn't have a torque converter. Basically its layout is the same as a manual, but you don't have a clutch pedal. To change gears, either you move the lever or, if so equipped, you can use the paddle shifters.
- it's blindingly fast: it changes gears in 8 MILLISECONDS (I believe the best driver/racing driver out there could probably change a gear in some 150 milliseconds, I reckon.).
- it perfectly matches the revs when downshifting, again better than any driver operating a manual.
- if needed, you can as well have DSG operate in full auto mode...for example for those moments when you are stuck in a traffic jam.

So, please help me understand why many people are so much attached to that third pedal when with a DSG you can do everything you can do with a manual, but always in a better, actually utmost perfect, way...
I mean, I have extensive experience with both manual and auto and of course there is a clear difference between the two, but when it comes to DSG (or SMG), I personally cannot see any advantage of the manual over it...
So I am very curious to see why someone would want a 6speed manual over a 6 speed DSG...

Thanks for the feedback !

[Yankee]

I've been driving over 20 years also, and when the Challenger comes out I won't get one without a 6-speed manual. Why? Because... it's simply what I prefer.

I know with today's technology that automatics (and their various variations thereof - autosticks, etc) can easily keep up with the manuals as far as 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. And they're right there with gas mileage figures too. So I guess there's no real compelling reason these days to choose a manual over an automatic... but I still want one. In my 04 GTO I paid extra to get a 6-speed manual (the only option available on the car).

Plus you gotta consider that no matter how advanced an automatic may be... it just won't be as fun and satisfying as a good ol' stick shift. I guess that's the main reason (and maybe for nostalgia reasons, plus I gotta get that pistol-grip shifter) I won't get a Challenger (or any other performance car) without one.

[Mike Penner]

The fun factor just isn't there if I don't have a manual. If you have a big, powerful engine in the car with a manual it means YOU are in direct control of that power. With an automatic a computer is in control of it. Which is more fun? Depends on the person driving I guess, but for me the choice is clear. The only way I could justify an automatic is if I have a physical impairment (eg, some of the guys on this board have mentioned having bad knees) that prevents the use of a manual.

[sniper226]

I for one really want an automatic. I plan on having mine as a part daily driver to and from work (when weather permits ) and my drive consists of alot of bumper to bumper & light to light traffic. It will be no fun having to ride the clutch all the time. Sure you don't have that tourque feeling like you do with a stick but the power is all there and no missed shift when you want to have a go with someone.

PLEASE offer automatic the first year!

[Legion681]

First of all, thank you for your feedback Yankee, Mike Penner and Sniper 226, I appreciate it.

But I think all of you guys are missing the point of my original post.

My post wasn't asking why die hard fans of the manual why they would prefer a manual transmission over an automatic.
I frankly believe the difference between a manual and a auto is very well known by almost everybody, no doubt about it.

But here my question was: why choose a manual over a DSG/SMG transmission ?. Not manual vs. auto.

Perhaps, you guys haven't got much info on DSG/SMG trannies and it's understandable because they are not so widespread like manuals and autos (basically so far only Audi, BMW, VW and a few others offer them).

Here a little breakdown of what they are:
- in their construction they are built exactly like a manual. No torque converter.
- the only part that is operated by the car is the clutch (or clutches, seen that DSG has two of them. SMG has one.). To users that means that they don't have a clutch pedal, but DSG/SMG keep the gear in until you tell it to change it (via the shifter or the paddles on the steering wheel) and gearchanges are blinding fast, especially for the DSG that requires only EIGHT MILLISECONDS to change a gear (SMG I believe it requires some 100-150 milliseconds: still much faster than any human making a gearchange with a manual), thanks to the fact it has two clutches and one is used to "preload" the gear the car's cpu thinks you are next gonna use.
On top of that, DSG/SMG blip the throttle to match revs PERFECTLY when downshifting.

All in all, DSG & SMG are manuals that have the clutch pedal eliminated (seen it's operated by the car), but for the rest you have the same (at 100 %) characteristics of a manual but it changes gears faster and it downshifts like a Formula 1 driver.
And last but not least, if you are in a traffic jam for example, you can always put it in full auto mode and let the gearbox do all the work. Please note: they are not manumatics (like for example Dodge uses in its Chargers). They are not automatics with some manual capability of some sort attached to them. They are manuals with the most tedious part of a manual gearbox (=the clutch pedal) automated (and this, in part, it's why they outperform manuals...).

Now that you know a bit more about it...I repeat my question:
why chose a manual over a DSG/SMG when the latter do the same thing, give you the same control, but do it much better and also offer a full auto capability in case for example you are stuck in traffic ?

What is the advantage the manual tranny has over these DSG & SMG ?
I personally see none. But if there is something I am missing, please tell me.
That's why I am asking...

[Rallye72]

I'll admit I'm not up on the new technology so had no idea what you were talking about. I read your explanation - so, from this old guy the answer is: the car has a strong nostalgia factor. I still have a 72 440 4spd car in the garage. A clutch is "fun", I'm not concerned about the added performance advantage. I want a Challenger R/T with a friggin clutch (pedal). It's emotional and as I said, reminds me of some good old days.

So, that's my answer to your question.

[Challenger4-TheWin]

i personally would want the transmission like the evo or the mazda 6

with the press of a button you can go from being manual to being auto. It's great when you get stuck in traffic and don't want to keep shifting up and down.

[Yankee]

I hear what you're saying, Legion. My answer is I'd still want an old fashioned 3-pedaled 6-speed manual over any other tranny, no matter how advanced it may be. I want a torque converter. I want a clutch. I want to row my own gears - period. Yes I'll grant you there are times a stick can be a bit of a pain, i.e. driving in heavy traffic, but to me that's just the nature of the beast.

To get right down to it, it's a bit of an emotional choice, I guess. I wouldn't fault anyone for buying an automatic (or any variation thereof) if that's what they want, but I woudn't have a Challenger without a good ol' manual. Not gonna do it, wouldn't be prudent...

[Justin Heileman]

I could see three reasons really. One would be the fact that you can keep your revs up at a drag strip launch simply by just slipping the clutch don't now really how the smg's or what not work but i couldn't see having this kind of control over rpms via clutch. Two would be clutch dump burnouts. Nothing better than just revving the car up to 5 grand and dumping the clutch. Three would be drifting w/ clutch control....Can you tell I break alot of stuff. Good thing for warranties. One question though on those how does it work taking off from a stop with the clutches or what not. I never have really got much exposure to these.

[Afterburner]

I despise automatics. Always have. Always will. Having said that you have to be a sado-masochist to own a manual in LA. With 300 gearshifts per mile in traffic jams, which are increasingly all the time, a manual is purest torture. I no longer own one.