Suggestion for DCX: dealer markup crackdown

[Mike Penner]

Originally Posted by DanRealtor

I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that: Most or all who perceive the "Market Adjustment" to be "Price Gouging" are not business owners. And most of us who don't perceive it to be "Price Gouging" either do own or have owned our own businesses.

Not true , I own a software company and it is common practice in this line of work to charge a client per cpu for a resource you exclusively control with few or no competitors and can reproduce infinitely with no overhead cost. There's also the concept of "maintenance contracts" where the client is charged for using the software on an annual basis, even after the initial purchase. Due to the ethereal nature of software this is a fairly unique business model. If you're into real estate it would be like literally manufacturing land out of thin air for little or no cost, selling it for pure profit and then renting it back to the "owners" on an annual basis (owners in quotes because they don't actually own anything, they've bought one or more licenses to use the land, nothing more). I don't need to tell you the opportunities that exist in this environment for gouging (and yes even when its my pocket book I still call it gouging).

I charge what the software is worth in my eyes based on the time invested in building it, not necessarily what the market can bear. This may not be typical business ethos but it is mine.

I wouldn't try to lowball the dealer below MSRP because the car to me is worth MSRP (unless it isn't, in which case I won't buy it). If the dealer wants to cut the price to move the unit because nobody's buying that's fine but I wouldn't ask him to do it. Once again that's just me, maybe I'm out in left field.

[Legion681]

Originally Posted by DanRealtor

...
While many of you are griping about "Market Adjustments" or any other term to describe dealers selling cars for over MSRP, I haven't heard any of you insisting that dealers should have to stick to MSRP and not sell for less (including those of you giving opinions on what's best for DCX: 8>6...). I still don't understand why any or all of you consider this "Price Gouging". And, as staed previously, we are all able to wait or travel (or both) to get the car we want at the price we want, or not buy at all.

The term "Price Gouging" IMO is appropriate when used to describe merchants taking advantage of peole in times of disaster (Katrina...) for basic necessities (food, water, fuel, tp....) when the consumer really cannot do without or travel to get the items elsewhere. Under those conditions I believe it is appropriate for the government to intervene. When describing the pricing strategies of dealers I don't think the term is appropriate.


Dan

Well, I might be an odd individual, but when I go to a dealership, I am ready to buy at MSRP (but not one cent more). So, if you ask me personally, I believe it would be fair for a dealer to stick to MSRP and I would respect that .

While I completely agree on your definition of price gouging related for example to natural disasters like Katrina, I am not sure I agree that the definition of price gouging should be limited at that.
Take for example the rise in gasoline prices during those weeks: the main motivation behind that was supposed to be the possible shortages of fuel in the US. That never happened, but people still had to bear the grunt of that.
Now if people need to travel (for example for their jobs), they can always take public transportation, try to car pool, etc. etc., they are not obliged to use their private vehicles, right ? Sure. But does it make it right when Exxon and other mega corporations posted record profits for 2005's 4th quarter while millions of Americans have been burdened with a great increase in their expenses for traveling and heating their homes ? They made their super profits at the expense of every poor bast.ard in the country, while there was nothing, no reason at all that was warranting such an increase. Now this in my book is price gouging, it might not have killed people, but for sure it made many more miserable than they were. And for what ? To make very few much much richer...To me this is just plain sad, it shouldn't have happened.

I understand that applying the definition "price gouging" to dealer's mark ups might seem a bit trivial compared to disasters like Katrina and other stuff like that, but at the source it's just the same, it just doesn't cost lives, it only costs a lot of aggravation.

[Legion681]

Originally Posted by Mike Penner

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not necessarily what the market can bear.
...

Perfect !
In my humble opinion, dealers adding mark ups are trying to get away with as much as they can, trying to reach, using Mike Penner's phrase, the limit of "what the market can bear", not what is fair. And what is fair ? The price the manufacturer indicated as retail price (after all, they made all the research that goes into producing a certain vehicle, physically produced it, advertised it, delivered it to a dealership, taken into account all characteristic of their vehicle compared to other vehicles of the same type present in the market in order to elaborate what the invoice and MSR prices ought to be. Do you think that they know better what it ought to be worth or the dealership ?) ! Just loose the "S" in MSRP and it will be oh so easy for everybody ! As I already stated, it's done all over the world with total success.

[Sr4tuner]

well what most people dont understand is that msrp means "most suggested retail value"put yourself in this predicament let's say you have something with an msrp of 20 dollars and you have the chance to sell it for 30. Now ask yourself what you would do in this case?The dealership has no obligation to dcx for their selling price, they can price it at 2,000,000 and i do not belive that anyone can do anything about it except not buy it...please correct me if i am wrong

[LOCOMOTION]

This is my opinion as to the effects of what dealers are calling supply and demand but whats really going on in my recent experience is dealers "controlling " supply and demand, read on:
I'm sorry to see that in fact some of you are experincing the same ordering /buying problems as I am. I've been a Mopar fan since my first car which was a 1957 Dodge Royal Lancer 2dr hardtop with a 325cid super red ram motor with push button automatic. What a car at that time , it was plenty fast . Since then I've had my share of various muscle cars over the years but always wanting to get back to Mopars and Dodge! Now I'm retired and this will probably be my last muscle car which, if I'm able to purchase one, I intend to drive, take excellent care of, go to car shows and cruise nights and then hand down to my grandson or great grandson. I just can't believe that in America today I have the cash to buy a new car and car company's are hurting for business with news reports of cutbacks, layoffs, and poor sales and I can't buy or put a deposit on a new challenger because of Chrysler's or Dodge's poor marketing policies. Don't get me wrong, I still want and will still buy one if I get the chance in the next 3 to 9 months. Even tho I'm totally pi@#ed off, mad, frustrated at Dodge I will deal with the most honest, accomodating, respectful dealer that I can find and hope I can buy my last muscle car before its too late. Some more info in my efforts particularly to "HEMI 05" about someone needing to fix the problem , well I have also sent 3 letters to different Chrysler/ DODGE corporation officers and thier replys were like they came out of a standard answer book to pacify a disgrunteled customer IE" " We have no control in any way over what our dealers sales practices are as they are independent Franchise's." Thats it .....thats a Corporation answer to all this.
NOW , what do any of you have to say to this? I have to agree to a few on this thread that there is an awful lot of BS going on. Mostly by the dealeships and some from a few on here. I refuse to believe anything I read on here any more untill someone tells me that they have thier new Challenger at home and offers me a look at it and thier sales contract. Why , you may ask, well I have spent endless hours during the last 3 months try to get any concrete info on this car about ordering or buying one. I litterly visited 11 dealers and contacted 18 others by phone and E-mail and the only thing for sure that I know at this time is the following: Most dealers are NOT obeying Chryslers edict that" They will only accept orders with real customers names and with real addresses" , but are apparenttly ordering them with your name and address or a ficticious name and address to get the car in their hands to sell to the highest bidder on thier list of Challenger customers. You ask how or why do I think this ? Because now I've gotten several calls from the dealers who originally said they didn't know how many Challengers they were getting alloted, or what the selling price would be , or asked a ridiculous price over MSRP with a large non-refundable deposit, now offering me the " opportunity" to put $1,000 down to get on the list to buy a 2008 SRT8 Challenger that they are getting in soon to the highest bidder.
The other thing that I'm sure of is that all the dealers are sure they are not only going to get, but pricing these cars at a Min of $5,000 to a Max of $20,000 over msrp. Thats what I was told by all 29 dealers in the NJ, NY, Penna area. So I will not believe anything else untill I actually see it in someones hands and only ask that all of you be very cautious in what your told by these totally price gouging, greedy dealerships, in my area especially. I'll finish by saying this , I'm totally sure that somewhere across America there are a few honest, trustworthy, ungreedy dealers willing or actually selling these cars for MSRP or maybe $1,000 over MSRP which I have offered to the dealers that I contacted . At last I have also been told when I told these dealers that I would wait for the 2009 Challengers that they would carry a premium price also based on the law of supply and demand.So be cautious everyone and lets see what washes out!
To To me this is price gouging thru dealers controlling supply to increase demand ! PURE GREED to me and I've offered to pay as much as $1,000 over MSRP! Thats more than fair profit. Good luck to all you guys and your orders, thanks for listening!

[Cuda340]

To get a decent price on the 2009s, you e-mail as many dealers as possible and be prepared to travel and buy out-of-state.

[RoostKing]

When dealers rip me off I feel like DCX as a company is ripping me off.

How can they gouge you when you dont have to buy it???? Who is MAKING YOU BUY A CHALLENGER AND PAYING AN INFLATED PRICE? No one I would presume, so either pay what the market will bare.

[Ragamuffin]

Originally Posted by Sr4tuner

well what most people dont understand is that msrp means "most suggested retail value"put yourself in this predicament let's say you have something with an msrp and i do not belive that anyone can do anything about it except not buy it...please correct me if i am wrong

Huhh? I am trying to understand how MSRP means or = " most suggested retail value" ; which abbreviates to MSRV !! I thought MSRP stood for ' Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price ' !! Now if the abbreviation/ terminology has changed recently, then I guess MSRV means 'Must Surrender to Retail Value'!!!

[sorbs]

I can't believe this thread is still alive! Okay, I own an SRT-8. Bought it at Employee pricing ($3,000.00 off MSRP) in 2006. Ask anyone when these cars came out in 2005 if paying $10-15K over MSRP was reasonable and they'd tell you "you got a deal" back then.

If you're serious wait. The convertible will be out in 2010, 6-spds, multiple colors, multiple VVT R/T options @ 385HP and 25MPG. Heck, for the real cheapskates you'll even have a V-6 option. This is one where patience will be your friend. Just imagine this, a light weight street AAR version...now we're talking. FYI, they already have an NHRA option announced for track use with the 6.4L (392C.I) plant. These cars will be available in mass quantities and pricing will follow a downward trend. For those really wanting to save $, buy used in 2012...

[SIX-PAK]

I just read through one-shot this awesome thread - lot's of good points brought up on these price-gouging rapes ..... those willing to get raped dumbfound me the most just for bragging rights to the first . As long as there will be willing/capable souls as such ; then there will be dealers reaping in on suckers ' money ....... greed is the root of all evil IIRC it comes from the Bible heheh .

Fine we're not obliged to buy , and they have all the rights to sell as they wish .... they should just do the math and see it all adds up to be a vicious circle - for all involved . Just re-read the thread for that .... I'll keep my post short and sweet .

The way I see it selling MSRP is like one said - it is the price the the Manufacturer sees fit to sell with said manufacturer and dealer having enough margin within to make each a profit . If car's MSRP is 40K and dealer acquires it for 30K = a 10K profit on 1 car , then add all the related visits to Dealer such customer who bought said car will have to , to maintain his car according to warranty (and what he can't do himself) . If the buying customer is offered a reasonable purchasing price and RESPECT with that - then the dealer wins by having this customer come back with a smile and more than happy to spend at said dealer ! It's only logical , but greed blinds people too - I forgot to say heheh .

Let me give you my personal example of this Mazda Dealer in my Canadian Province of Quebec , called Albi Mazda . Albi is known not only in my Province , not only in my Country , not only in North America , but rather on the whole Planet Earth as THE BEST SELLING MAZDA CAR DEALERSHIP with most sales in a year , and this year after year !

You might ask yourself how come ? From what I know , Albi Mazda sells the most cars daily due to a couple of facts - such as the best lowest price against any competition ! They do so with a smile on their face knowing that wil attract you back . They make you feel comfortable and as a normal person , while listening to your needs . I swear , I have armed myself to the teeth to get ready to negotiate when came time with them ! I have had to use only 10% of what I learned - such things as not to buy the extras like extended warranties , rug shampoo which is where they again make lots of profits

I walked in there after a few calls to other dealers , including this one , pretending I could get this and that from other dealer , to get what I wanted - he agreed to and got me to visit him .... sat down stipulated exactly what I wanted and negociated and manged to save myself 7,000+$ that's right !!! with such things as transport/prep. included and 0% purchase financing for 5 years . These guys have always made me feel part of their ''family'' when I go there greeting me as so and even striking new freindships - I have known to spend amounts of 3 hours there after the 1 hour jobs done to my car , socializing ! I just feel good and part of people who care for/with me

This is what dealerships need to get back to - the above dealership Albi Mazda is by no means losing any money whatsoever - to the contrary have just expanded a multi-million dollar building to accomodate its growth . This comes down to the examples members here have shown - and what I'm trying to say good attracts good to all , instead of greed's vicious circle which not even benefits the dealer in the long run !

Chrysler needs to wake up dealers to this approach if it wants to roll out many of it's cars into people driveway and not only dealer's lots that end up trickling down in auction blocks .... pfff I've not even been to College hahahaha

The blind leading the blind - both fall into the pit - is another Bible quote that comes to mind ... in this case the money pit of greed - as noted by the whole car industry ...... wake up people !!

Heck ya - I wil try to negoiciate any car I want to purchase - why ... 'cause I can too ! Even if I was a millionaire - it's in my blood to get the last word and walk out smiling 'cause I got it my way ..... the dealer I did so with still made a profit / gained a loyal customer who drives past 2-3 other Mazda dealers locally to get to his - making again profit with me .......

So it's been 2 years since this thread was started - and from what it seems - we're still in the same spot ..... I know I'll be patient and only get what I want at the price I see fit - good things come to those who wait !

So much for the short and sweet LOL