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Thread: Timing chain failure on the Dodge Challenger Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
04-20-2015 06:32 PM
BrUiRcNeR
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalChallengerLover View Post
I hear you , but to risk a engine failure for a little performance is crazy IMOP.
A lot of the Japanese cars are interference motors.

Also you never know when a belt will snap.

I had a 1984 FORD EXP 2 seater (remember those?) and my belt snapped at about 50,000 miles while judt cruising down the road,and the manual said to change it at 60,000......good thing it wasn't an interference motor.
Actually, the 1.6L engine IS an interference motor.....the belt went prematurely on my 1982 EXP, teaching me my first major lesson in the importance of timing belt replacement. Somewhere in my parents basement there is probably still a box of bent valves from that POS.
04-20-2015 12:45 PM
SoCalChallengerLover
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrproffitt View Post
LOL, most idiots don't change the belt when or before they are suppose to, and hence the destruction!


How many times on every car you've owned, did you follow the maintenance schedule, and change the trans fluid and filter, the rear diff gear oil, grease the wheel bearings, change the plugs and wires, rotate the tires, flush the cooling system, change the air filter, change the fuel pump and regulator, etc., etc., before they break....................................never, as NO ONE DOES as we would all spend our lives under the hood in a never ending maintenance battle each weekend and the car makers know this. And anyone that says they do, is either perverted with their car, has no life, or has more money than cents and still has no life. I know people with Lambo's and Bentleys that don't follow the schedule, but they just buy another car. So where does all this leave us? It's all in what YOU make of it. Either way, it all cost the same. Do the maintenance as recommended costs X dollars over 10 years. Don't do maintenance, and cost's X dollars to repair at destruction. As my friend just found out while repairing his SRT 10 truck when the crank went thru the pan taking a road trip. $8900 for replacement and rebuild. Sold it 2 months later for $8500. It all boiled down to a weak full pump causing the engine to run lean and self destruct after a period of years running like that. No warning light for that one as I've seen it many times now.
I know a handful of friends that do the major required maint on their cars like change coolant, brake fluid, tranny fluid, diff fluid ect (myself included)......and I do too so I disagree on that point you made about most people not doing the maint.
Some don't but some do, I wouldn't say it's that rare.
04-20-2015 09:22 AM
440_Magnum
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalChallengerLover View Post
I hear you , but to risk a engine failure for a little performance is crazy IMOP.
A lot of the Japanese cars are interference motors.

Also you never know when a belt will snap..
I don't disagree, but maybe that was unclear from my first post. I think Honda is stupid and the whole timing belt on interference engines thing is one reason I wouldn't own one. Their engines are amazingly good apart from the belt drive, but then they cheap out on one component that would make them almost bulletproof. I don't get it.

Well, I do. Its about profit. What I really don't get is why so many people think Honda (or Toyota) is God's gift to the automotive world, but then slam Chrysler or Ford or GM when they do the same thing for the same reason. A Honda breaks down, and you hear how great the service was after it broke or how long it ran before it broke... but a Chrysler breaks the same way at the same mileage and you hear people screaming "junk!" Not saying that's the case here, just making the comparison.
04-20-2015 07:19 AM
Charger440rt
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrproffitt View Post
never, as NO ONE DOES as we would all spend our lives under the hood in a never ending maintenance battle each weekend and the car makers know this. And anyone that says they do, is either perverted with their car, has no life, or has more money than cents and still has no life.
Just don't ever buy the original Challenger that your neoChallenger owes its heritage to. Cars were a lot more maintenance intensive then. Your post makes me realize how times and perceptions have changed especially reading this on a forum for car enthusiasts and we are sometimes talking just about basic maintenance as being 'too much work". You would not imagine the amount of maintenance involved in the not so distant past by even non car enthusiast everyday people before they instead played with their Ipads all day. Before I get called an old fart and hating 'tech', keep in mind I'm not even 50 years old yet and am an "I.T." so I am not afraid of computers either. Yet I know they are not the answer for everything and sometimes even are to our detriment.

Don't take my post the wrong way, it is just my opinion and am not trying to be a wiseguy.
04-18-2015 09:22 AM
mrproffitt
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalChallengerLover View Post
One of the most idiotic designs EVER has to be a motor that will self destruct if a belt breaks!


LOL, most idiots don't change the belt when or before they are suppose to, and hence the destruction!


How many times on every car you've owned, did you follow the maintenance schedule, and change the trans fluid and filter, the rear diff gear oil, grease the wheel bearings, change the plugs and wires, rotate the tires, flush the cooling system, change the air filter, change the fuel pump and regulator, etc., etc., before they break....................................never, as NO ONE DOES as we would all spend our lives under the hood in a never ending maintenance battle each weekend and the car makers know this. And anyone that says they do, is either perverted with their car, has no life, or has more money than cents and still has no life. I know people with Lambo's and Bentleys that don't follow the schedule, but they just buy another car. So where does all this leave us? It's all in what YOU make of it. Either way, it all cost the same. Do the maintenance as recommended costs X dollars over 10 years. Don't do maintenance, and cost's X dollars to repair at destruction. As my friend just found out while repairing his SRT 10 truck when the crank went thru the pan taking a road trip. $8900 for replacement and rebuild. Sold it 2 months later for $8500. It all boiled down to a weak full pump causing the engine to run lean and self destruct after a period of years running like that. No warning light for that one as I've seen it many times now.
04-18-2015 08:26 AM
mrproffitt
Quote:
Originally Posted by randycat99 View Post
I'd almost say I'd take the noise over the alternative. No need for it to have to be a straight-cut gear set either, right? I'd think in this day and age it would be possible to come up with quiet(er) gear drive, when the survival of an interference design engine is on the line...
They had these type gears in the 70's as 440 Magnum said in the straight 6's and the heavy duty trucks with the 366,427,454 truck motors for industrial engines. They where bevel cut and produced almost no noise, as if anyone could here a timing chain then or now in a running motor with a cam and headers. The bad part about having a gear drive timing system is that it transfers the crankshaft harmonics to the cam and cam bearings, plus the front crank bearing. I have run several gear drives on the street and I can tell you it will not last on a daily driver for more than a year. After that, you will be tearing the engine down again. If you notice, even 8000 HP race engines use a belt or chain. That's the reason above.




The part I don't understand is, some accessories on a diesel engine are gear driven along with the cam. Power steering, water pump, etc. But I also know they don't spin much over 2500 rpm's and last 300k miles.


Next is the timing belt issue, every car manufacture I have seen in the last 20 years says to change the timing belt every 10,000 miles, I have also seen them say 30,000 miles too. But if you are just another "turn the key and drive it till it breaks" type person, well then you bring it on yourself and the added costs and headaches. Now I say this as our 07 Charger 3.5 HO has 157k on the timing belt and I know its just a matter of time, but, I'm fixing to do the common business trick of "stick it to someone else" and trade it in on another one. I have put rocker arms, crank and rod bearings, and host of other items on this car and now the suspension is gone (another $1000 to fix) so I'm not going to put anymore in it. Great car, but time to go.
04-17-2015 11:01 AM
outflyin
Quote:
Originally Posted by 440_Magnum View Post
Metal-on-metal timing gears are pretty noisy. Think "almost as loud as a blower drive belt" noisy. The ones that were commonly used in truck 6-cylinder engines back in the 60s and 70s had a phenolic cam gear to make them quieter... but now you have a cam gear that can strip teeth just like a plastic-toothed timing chain gear.
Simple solution to the gear noise problem: LOUD exhaust!
04-17-2015 10:40 AM
19johned53 There was a few year period that A5 owners wished there was a belt, or anything else than what the factory had engineered and installed! LOL


Thankfully, the "fix" seems to be working well, as no reported failures with the new shoe and tensioner.
04-17-2015 10:12 AM
Slidd Friend had the belt in her 85 Charger. As the miles neared 80,000, I started thinking about changing it. Dammit too late, it let go a month later at almost exactly 80,000 miles. Luckily no damage or bent valves.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
04-17-2015 10:08 AM
SoCalChallengerLover
Quote:
Originally Posted by 440_Magnum View Post
Like... EVERY SINGLE HONDA with a timing belt.

Interference design engines can have higher compression, more favorable valve angles, and more efficient valve timing, so that's why the manufacturers did it. That's also why I like chains, even though they're not perfect.
I hear you , but to risk a engine failure for a little performance is crazy IMOP.
A lot of the Japanese cars are interference motors.

Also you never know when a belt will snap.

I had a 1984 FORD EXP 2 seater (remember those?) and my belt snapped at about 50,000 miles while judt cruising down the road,and the manual said to change it at 60,000......good thing it wasn't an interference motor.
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