11.51 at 117.89mph - Dodge Challenger Forum: Challenger & SRT8 Forums
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 11:02 AM Thread Starter
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11.51 at 117.89mph

Ran 11.51 at 117.89mph last Sunday at Milan Dragway. Made a couple minor changes to the tune and the car seemed to like it. Hooked up good and ran hard the whole way down the track. My Dad, kids, and couple buddies were all there too, was fun hanging out at the track with all of them. Both of my buddies ran really well that day also.

Have some catless pipes I want to install soon, hoping those will drop my ET a little. Heard some people say they help a ton, others say they do nothing. Will be interesting to see what they actually do if anything. I know the car will sound better regardless.

Here's a few pics...
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Carl
11.44 @ 120.71mph w/ 1.63 60ft / -445ft DA
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 12:44 PM
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11.51 at 117.89mph

Nice runs brother!! Always a good day out with the fam and the track !! Wish I could get my wife to come so she could watch the kids I know my two boys would love it!!
As far as catless, I’ve heard the same from both sides. I run no cats , and my tuner(Hemituner) told me not to put them in when I asked(was trying to quiet down a bit). Granted it is a 426 , but it is na , so I’d assume the same would apply if it was still a 392.


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cdahl383 (05-03-2019)
post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 02:41 PM
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I picked up .25 tenths with the cat deletes but, the air was better also. Before DA was 1100 and with the cat deletes -300. I still think the biggest gain from headers and cat deletes are the cat deletes. I may still test headers at some point to try to get accurate data

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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-03-2019, 09:54 AM Thread Starter
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I picked up .25 tenths with the cat deletes but, the air was better also. Before DA was 1100 and with the cat deletes -300. I still think the biggest gain from headers and cat deletes are the cat deletes. I may still test headers at some point to try to get accurate data
So you had a 1400ft DA swing from before/after. I've found that around 800-900ft reduction in DA is worth about .1 and 1 mph. So about .15 of your gain was just from a favorable DA change alone. That means if all else is equal, you picked up about .1 from the catless pipes. That's about what I would expect. I've heard they're worth 8-10hp and they're also about 10lbs lighter than the stock catted pipes. If that's the case I'd be pretty happy with that as I picked up the pipes for pretty cheap.

Hopefully I can get to them soon. Just so much going on around the house right now, just never seem to have the time to mess with the car. Hoping to get them installed at some point this month.

Longtubes would be nice, but they're a pain to install, and I worry about them leaking over time. The catless pipes look pretty easy to swap on and off. Low expense and low labor. The longtubes are expensive and very labor intensive. Just doesn't seem worth the bother to me. I want to go faster, but I like to stick with mods that are easily reversible and not overly expensive.
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So you had a 1400ft DA swing from before/after. I've found that around 800-900ft reduction in DA is worth about .1 and 1 mph. So about .15 of your gain was just from a favorable DA change alone. That means if all else is equal, you picked up about .1 from the catless pipes. That's about what I would expect. I've heard they're worth 8-10hp and they're also about 10lbs lighter than the stock catted pipes. If that's the case I'd be pretty happy with that as I picked up the pipes for pretty cheap.

Hopefully I can get to them soon. Just so much going on around the house right now, just never seem to have the time to mess with the car. Hoping to get them installed at some point this month.

Longtubes would be nice, but they're a pain to install, and I worry about them leaking over time. The catless pipes look pretty easy to swap on and off. Low expense and low labor. The longtubes are expensive and very labor intensive. Just doesn't seem worth the bother to me. I want to go faster, but I like to stick with mods that are easily reversible and not overly expensive.
Good job Carl The green monster is strong as always! Glad you're back in the groove Love the 1.6 60 ft......that's where I need to be. Interesting they give you a 1254 ft speed as well.......never saw that before. In the South...we are JEALOUS of the killer DA weather you guys have! However....I am NOT jealous of the cold temps!! The catless mids /Jays adjustment tune were worth a solid tenth on my car. Tenths are EXPENSIVE on a Mopar for sure.

Right now I'm done for the summer here....already high 80's/ 90's. Not much fun and the cars are not too crazy about it either. In the Fall I will be chasing the killer #'s again. I have some adjustable A-arms to install to get rid of all that negative camber. I will report on those when done. With the rears now at 0 camber.....the fronts really look retarded now. I suspect there is some free hp there to stop the "plowing".
The journey continues....
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-04-2019, 06:30 AM
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So you had a 1400ft DA swing from before/after. I've found that around 800-900ft reduction in DA is worth about .1 and 1 mph. So about .15 of your gain was just from a favorable DA change alone. That means if all else is equal, you picked up about .1 from the catless pipes. That's about what I would expect. I've heard they're worth 8-10hp and they're also about 10lbs lighter than the stock catted pipes. If that's the case I'd be pretty happy with that as I picked up the pipes for pretty cheap.

Hopefully I can get to them soon. Just so much going on around the house right now, just never seem to have the time to mess with the car. Hoping to get them installed at some point this month.

Longtubes would be nice, but they're a pain to install, and I worry about them leaking over time. The catless pipes look pretty easy to swap on and off. Low expense and low labor. The longtubes are expensive and very labor intensive. Just doesn't seem worth the bother to me. I want to go faster, but I like to stick with mods that are easily reversible and not overly expensive.
My PB of 11.55 @ 119 was run with cats in +230 DA. Next best is 11.56 @116 with catless mids in +920 DA which converts to 11.46 at sea level. Same day as 11.56 I had several runs of 11.6X in DA 1200+. These results roughly correlate with Carl's observations about DA and catless mid pipes.

I'm experiencing increased tire spin on the strip and street since installing the catless mids. On the street it's very noticeable. Anything approaching half throttle will break the F1's loose at 2nd and 3rd gear shift. On the strip the logs have shown at least a little tire spin on all but one run and significant tire spin in 2nd and 3rd on a couple of occasions since installing the mids. I probably need to investigate shift firmness as Carl mentioned in another thread. Don't want to go below 20 PSI in the DR's.

I'm confident that catless mids improve ET approximately .1 second. My race data, estimates from tuners and the increased tire spin I am experiencing since installing the catless mids are all pretty good indications of their performance value.

When you install the mids I suggest getting the car as high off the ground as possible. I had it on large jack stands which provided ample room. Also spend some time getting the reducers to fit into the exhaust pipes. I sanded the OD and slotted them. I could have pounded them in but if I wanted to remove them they probably would need to be cut in half from the inside with a carballoy cutter on a die grinder. Other than that the install is easy. Let me know what you do with the O2 sensors, I put extensions in the bungs, I think solidman put O2 sensors directly in the bungs. neither of us had any MIL codes but he had some tuning related to the mid pipes while I did not.

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Jazz Blue, Ruby Red Leather, A8, Scat Pack Appearance Group
Tazer, BT catch can, ported intake manifold, Hemifever Tune, Fastman 84mm TB.
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-06-2019, 09:49 AM Thread Starter
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Good job Carl The green monster is strong as always! Glad you're back in the groove Love the 1.6 60 ft......that's where I need to be. Interesting they give you a 1254 ft speed as well.......never saw that before. In the South...we are JEALOUS of the killer DA weather you guys have! However....I am NOT jealous of the cold temps!! The catless mids /Jays adjustment tune were worth a solid tenth on my car. Tenths are EXPENSIVE on a Mopar for sure.

Right now I'm done for the summer here....already high 80's/ 90's. Not much fun and the cars are not too crazy about it either. In the Fall I will be chasing the killer #'s again. I have some adjustable A-arms to install to get rid of all that negative camber. I will report on those when done. With the rears now at 0 camber.....the fronts really look retarded now. I suspect there is some free hp there to stop the "plowing".
The journey continues....
Thanks! It felt good to make some solid passes with my head straight. We're typically in the +800 to +2000ft DA range in May-June. After late June it's pretty hot until late September. I usually race through mid June and then call it quits until the fall. Too hot to race then for me.

That's good to hear you picked up a solid tenth from the catless pipes. I know they have to help, looking through, or actually not being able to look through the stock cats, they look like a huge restriction point to me. The rest of the stock exhaust is pretty open. I'm hoping I pick up a tenth as well. I'd like to be able to run 11.50's in warmer weather with no other changes and then possibly 11.30's in cold air.

I'm likely done for the year on my car. Too many things going on with the new house. We have landscaping to do, yard work, furniture, etc. Maybe I'll get something lined up for next year. I'd love to do a cam swap along with a converter, but it's so expensive. Cam kits are $1500 or so, an aftermarket converter is around $1500 with core charge, and that's not including any labor or other misc parts. Likely $5000-6000 for everything. Not sure it's worth it. Might drop .3-.4 with that, but for $5-6K? Not sure it's worth it. I got these catless pipes for $150, and I can do the swap myself, so that's worth it to me. These Mopars are really expensive to mod!

Good luck with the a-arms, keep me posted, interested to see how that works out for you. Your car looks good with those racestars on it!
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-06-2019, 09:56 AM Thread Starter
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My PB of 11.55 @ 119 was run with cats in +230 DA. Next best is 11.56 @116 with catless mids in +920 DA which converts to 11.46 at sea level. Same day as 11.56 I had several runs of 11.6X in DA 1200+. These results roughly correlate with Carl's observations about DA and catless mid pipes.

I'm experiencing increased tire spin on the strip and street since installing the catless mids. On the street it's very noticeable. Anything approaching half throttle will break the F1's loose at 2nd and 3rd gear shift. On the strip the logs have shown at least a little tire spin on all but one run and significant tire spin in 2nd and 3rd on a couple of occasions since installing the mids. I probably need to investigate shift firmness as Carl mentioned in another thread. Don't want to go below 20 PSI in the DR's.

I'm confident that catless mids improve ET approximately .1 second. My race data, estimates from tuners and the increased tire spin I am experiencing since installing the catless mids are all pretty good indications of their performance value.

When you install the mids I suggest getting the car as high off the ground as possible. I had it on large jack stands which provided ample room. Also spend some time getting the reducers to fit into the exhaust pipes. I sanded the OD and slotted them. I could have pounded them in but if I wanted to remove them they probably would need to be cut in half from the inside with a carballoy cutter on a die grinder. Other than that the install is easy. Let me know what you do with the O2 sensors, I put extensions in the bungs, I think solidman put O2 sensors directly in the bungs. neither of us had any MIL codes but he had some tuning related to the mid pipes while I did not.
Cool! Always good to get actual data rather than opinions. So you had a 750ft DA increase and still ran the same ET basically. I'd say you picked up for sure. I figured they had to be worth .07-.10, somewhere in there. I talked with Jay a lot and he said most of his customers that ran them picked up 8-10hp and roughly a tenth. I've heard some guys say they didn't pick anything up. But I often wonder if those guys track data like DA to accurately compare runs from one day to the next. You could run 11.8 on the stock tune in -500ft DA and then run 11.9 tuned in +2000ft DA and claim the tune slowed the car down, when in reality you picked up big time.

I would check into softening the 1-2 shift if you are experiencing tire spin on that shift. I was getting a lot on some passes and I know that was costing me some time. I got that sorted out now. I'll have to see how it reacts with the new pipes on though.

Did you put extensions in the bungs because the wiring was too tight or for some other reason? I talked to Stainless Works and they said they should fit fine, but I just didn't want to be yanking on that wiring for the O2 sensors too much.

Jay already sent me a tune to run with the catless pipes, same as I ran last weekend, just with the rear O2 sensors turned off I believe. So I'll try that one next time out once the pipes are installed and see how it goes.

How does the car sound now with the catless pipes? Deeper sound? Any louder? I'm hoping it sounds a little more aggressive as well.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-06-2019, 05:48 PM
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Cool! Always good to get actual data rather than opinions. So you had a 750ft DA increase and still ran the same ET basically. I'd say you picked up for sure. I figured they had to be worth .07-.10, somewhere in there. I talked with Jay a lot and he said most of his customers that ran them picked up 8-10hp and roughly a tenth. I've heard some guys say they didn't pick anything up. But I often wonder if those guys track data like DA to accurately compare runs from one day to the next. You could run 11.8 on the stock tune in -500ft DA and then run 11.9 tuned in +2000ft DA and claim the tune slowed the car down, when in reality you picked up big time.

I would check into softening the 1-2 shift if you are experiencing tire spin on that shift. I was getting a lot on some passes and I know that was costing me some time. I got that sorted out now. I'll have to see how it reacts with the new pipes on though.

Did you put extensions in the bungs because the wiring was too tight or for some other reason? I talked to Stainless Works and they said they should fit fine, but I just didn't want to be yanking on that wiring for the O2 sensors too much.

Jay already sent me a tune to run with the catless pipes, same as I ran last weekend, just with the rear O2 sensors turned off I believe. So I'll try that one next time out once the pipes are installed and see how it goes.



How does the car sound now with the catless pipes? Deeper sound? Any louder? I'm hoping it sounds a little more aggressive as well.

Jay does not turn off the rear 02's. He says that makes the ECM very unhappy. He does his magic.....and it WORKS! 0'2s are screwed directly in the bungs on mine. The only thing I had to do is on the driver side.....the 02 wire coming down from above......is held to the side of the trannie with a plastic push in connector. I popped this off the trannie with my fingers and it fits perfectly. Not tight or too much slack.

The sound is MEAN!! My car is much deeper and growls now. When you start it the snap sounds like a race car! I think you will really like it. I do. There is no comparison to cats installed. A friend that is familiar with my car watched me drive away said the sound is much better. He said it now sounds like a Borla exhaust. It does sound good.
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-07-2019, 03:54 AM
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Cool! Always good to get actual data rather than opinions. So you had a 750ft DA increase and still ran the same ET basically. I'd say you picked up for sure. I figured they had to be worth .07-.10, somewhere in there. I talked with Jay a lot and he said most of his customers that ran them picked up 8-10hp and roughly a tenth. I've heard some guys say they didn't pick anything up. But I often wonder if those guys track data like DA to accurately compare runs from one day to the next. You could run 11.8 on the stock tune in -500ft DA and then run 11.9 tuned in +2000ft DA and claim the tune slowed the car down, when in reality you picked up big time.

I would check into softening the 1-2 shift if you are experiencing tire spin on that shift. I was getting a lot on some passes and I know that was costing me some time. I got that sorted out now. I'll have to see how it reacts with the new pipes on though.

Did you put extensions in the bungs because the wiring was too tight or for some other reason? I talked to Stainless Works and they said they should fit fine, but I just didn't want to be yanking on that wiring for the O2 sensors too much.

Jay already sent me a tune to run with the catless pipes, same as I ran last weekend, just with the rear O2 sensors turned off I believe. So I'll try that one next time out once the pipes are installed and see how it goes.

How does the car sound now with the catless pipes? Deeper sound? Any louder? I'm hoping it sounds a little more aggressive as well.
Sean does not turn off rear O2 sensors nor did he suggest any other changes to the tune when installing catless mids. He neither agreed or disagreed that extensions were needed. Based on input from several threads in this forum I decided to install the extensions. The O2 harnesses worked fine with the bung extensions. I did notice it may be tight on drivers side if extensions were not used and may require removal of the harness support as Solidman suggested.

There is definitely an increase in exhaust volume with the catless mids. Cruising in default mode produces a volume where conversations and listening to the sound system are clearly acceptable. There is a drown when under load at low RPM's that I don't car for so I give it more throttle and it barks sweat . I guess sound is a personal thing, it may or may not be what you're looking for.
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