11.55 @ 118.9, New PB - Page 3 - Dodge Challenger Forum: Challenger & SRT8 Forums
Track Talk This is the place to post time slips, track stories, track photos and videos, and track event info

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of 49 (permalink) Old 05-10-2019, 08:43 PM
Senior Member
 
Solidman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North Florida
Posts: 158
Thanks: 10
Thanked 53 Times in 37 Posts
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Thanks so much Carl for sharing that excellent info!! Very much appreciated It is a blessing to own one of these cars, and be able to race it and have fun with it. I have learned a bunch from a lot of you on here. Having ya'll as a virtual family is simply awesome

Rob you said it perfectly....very few are as fast as us. MOST are in the 12+ second range. It's pretty cool to get these good looking land yachts to "haul the mail" and show off out tail lights to most of the competition. I would MUCH rather be under-estimated.....and blow some doors off

When they have massive power.....and our boat cleans their clock.....they have to walk the "hall of shame" lol

Carl, yesterday I pulled in to a BP station for the first time EVER.....and filled my tank with their "invigorate" 93. (was on 1/4 tank) I drove about 5 or 6 miles and did a few stops doing chores and shopping. (beer, cigarettes, rubbers) KIDDING! lol On the way home I noticed a sudden increase in throttle response. I mean it became DAMN snappy. I was so bewildered I stopped about a mile from the house and tried to eek out a 0-60 run. THAT was a joke! I tried to feather the new Nitto's I just put on for the street......and they went into flames instantly. So...I stopped again and had another peddle fest till about 30 mph and I nailed it. It blew them off and I just said.....DAMN!! I laughed the rest of the way home and said....."that damn Carl and his BP gas"! lol

I parked it and did not drive it today. It could have been an anomaly to suddenly get a bunch of extra power out of nowhere. (no Klotz in tank, ran that out, just pure gas) I will check it out this week and do some logging. So time and testing will tell. But I can tell you this....SOMETHING made my motor come alive suddenly! If it turns out to be that damn BP gas......Carl is going straight to the TOP of my Christmas card list!! I'll keep ya posted.....Have a great weekend everyone.........Gene
Solidman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 49 (permalink) Old 05-13-2019, 09:59 AM
Senior Member
 
cdahl383's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 1,132
Thanks: 82
Thanked 269 Times in 201 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solidman View Post
Thanks so much Carl for sharing that excellent info!! Very much appreciated It is a blessing to own one of these cars, and be able to race it and have fun with it. I have learned a bunch from a lot of you on here. Having ya'll as a virtual family is simply awesome

Rob you said it perfectly....very few are as fast as us. MOST are in the 12+ second range. It's pretty cool to get these good looking land yachts to "haul the mail" and show off out tail lights to most of the competition. I would MUCH rather be under-estimated.....and blow some doors off

When they have massive power.....and our boat cleans their clock.....they have to walk the "hall of shame" lol

Carl, yesterday I pulled in to a BP station for the first time EVER.....and filled my tank with their "invigorate" 93. (was on 1/4 tank) I drove about 5 or 6 miles and did a few stops doing chores and shopping. (beer, cigarettes, rubbers) KIDDING! lol On the way home I noticed a sudden increase in throttle response. I mean it became DAMN snappy. I was so bewildered I stopped about a mile from the house and tried to eek out a 0-60 run. THAT was a joke! I tried to feather the new Nitto's I just put on for the street......and they went into flames instantly. So...I stopped again and had another peddle fest till about 30 mph and I nailed it. It blew them off and I just said.....DAMN!! I laughed the rest of the way home and said....."that damn Carl and his BP gas"! lol

I parked it and did not drive it today. It could have been an anomaly to suddenly get a bunch of extra power out of nowhere. (no Klotz in tank, ran that out, just pure gas) I will check it out this week and do some logging. So time and testing will tell. But I can tell you this....SOMETHING made my motor come alive suddenly! If it turns out to be that damn BP gas......Carl is going straight to the TOP of my Christmas card list!! I'll keep ya posted.....Have a great weekend everyone.........Gene
No problem. Glad you're enjoying the car and having fun racing it!

I still think it's awesome that with just basic mods my car will run mid 11's on a pretty consistent basis now. It's not the fastest car out there, but it sure is a lot of fun, and it surprises a lot of people too.

It could be the BP fuel, especially if you had some Shell in there previously. But I would say keep filling up with BP and see how the car reacts on average over a period of time. But that's been my experience as well, BP fuel just seems to run better in my car. And based on my logging from a while ago, it was likely due to having less knock retard. I think most fuels are the same, but the additive packages are different. Maybe the BP additive package is just better or less prone to knock than Shell or others. Who knows.

Carl
11.44 @ 120.71mph w/ 1.63 60ft / -445ft DA
Dragstrip videos:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cdahl383 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to cdahl383 For This Useful Post:
Solidman (05-13-2019)
post #23 of 49 (permalink) Old 05-13-2019, 11:35 AM
Senior Member
 
Solidman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North Florida
Posts: 158
Thanks: 10
Thanked 53 Times in 37 Posts
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdahl383 View Post
No problem. Glad you're enjoying the car and having fun racing it!

I still think it's awesome that with just basic mods my car will run mid 11's on a pretty consistent basis now. It's not the fastest car out there, but it sure is a lot of fun, and it surprises a lot of people too.

It could be the BP fuel, especially if you had some Shell in there previously. But I would say keep filling up with BP and see how the car reacts on average over a period of time. But that's been my experience as well, BP fuel just seems to run better in my car. And based on my logging from a while ago, it was likely due to having less knock retard. I think most fuels are the same, but the additive packages are different. Maybe the BP additive package is just better or less prone to knock than Shell or others. Who knows.
Chevron has ALWAYS been my "go-to" fuel for many decades. I could get the most timing advance on several vehicles that I owned. 68 440 Coronet, 87 Dodge 4wd pickup, (two 1st and 2nd place bogging trophies), and 04 Mustang GT. I could usually get 3-5 degrees more than any other fuel. In fact...Techron is in race and aviation fuels. (says a lot for the additive). But....ALL of the Chevrons have gone away. The nearest to me is about 45 miles away. So....5 Shells and 2 BP's are the choice! And your right Carl...it's ALL about the additive.

I chose in the past not to take Jay's advice and peak the timing or get a wideband. I was just not that serious. Your's and Rob's conversations have inspired me to get serious about peaking the timing. I have never taken an active role in electronic tuning....I just let Jay do it. So....I just got back from Data logging a few 0-100+ runs (in Mexico)!

I just finished watching them on the Data viewer. The temp was 86 degrees and I had the A/C on. (radio too) lol I advanced the highest tune that I have (96 octane street tune) by 2 whole degrees across the band. So this is still with 1/4 tank of Shell mixed with 3/4 BP. I am running NO KLOTZ so it is 93 octane only. I got ZERO ST or LT knock retard. The cars feels MUCH spunkier than ever (spun the tires and drifted a lil at 50mph on gear change)

My research says if there is zero Long term retard.....and less than 2 degrees Short term retard than keep going. Since I have 0 and 0....I have a little ways to go. The motor really came alive as you would expect with more timing. This tune still has the knock sensors at full listening level. The Track tune has them turned down a bit. So...the next step is add another 2 degrees and check it. If I get any KR's I will add a touch of fuel and see if that cures it. I will peak it out. Since I am running short 26 inch tires...they are lighter and present much less of a load to turn than a taller tire. So the motor should take more timing than a taller tire. I am excited to see the power gains. I will keep ya posted. I may go and run again in the heat this Saturday depending on the results I achieve. (expected 91 degrees)

It is a BLAST to run at this level. Dependable, nothing is strained too much, minor mods. I do not care about about being the fastest because there will ALWAYS be someone faster. A solid 11 second efficient Hot Rod is perfect in my book Thanks to you guys it makes it possible...
Solidman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #24 of 49 (permalink) Old 05-13-2019, 06:46 PM
Senior Member
 
Solidman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North Florida
Posts: 158
Thanks: 10
Thanked 53 Times in 37 Posts
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
TUNING UPDATE: So far I have gained 4 degrees and 2% rich on WOT fuel. I have ZERO LT KR....and only 3 ST KR's on gear changes.

2 are .5's

One is 1.0 at 107 mph gear change.

I also changed shift points from 6400 to 6250. I noticed before that the last 200 rpm were a lil lazy. (past the curve) It is much happier now.

I will probably end up at 5 or 6 degrees and a little more fuel. That's a BUNCH from where I was.

I can tell you that I now have a completely different car than I had. MUCH quicker. On my last run I peddled it from a start and the wheels spun to 70mph. That was peddling it on new Nitto 555 G2's. (street tires)

That has NEVER happened before.....period. I'll keep ya'll posted on the final.

I'm really glad you guys peaked my interest on getting involved......THANK YOU!!!!
Solidman is offline  
post #25 of 49 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 09:39 AM
Senior Member
 
cdahl383's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 1,132
Thanks: 82
Thanked 269 Times in 201 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solidman View Post
TUNING UPDATE: So far I have gained 4 degrees and 2% rich on WOT fuel. I have ZERO LT KR....and only 3 ST KR's on gear changes.

2 are .5's

One is 1.0 at 107 mph gear change.

I also changed shift points from 6400 to 6250. I noticed before that the last 200 rpm were a lil lazy. (past the curve) It is much happier now.

I will probably end up at 5 or 6 degrees and a little more fuel. That's a BUNCH from where I was.

I can tell you that I now have a completely different car than I had. MUCH quicker. On my last run I peddled it from a start and the wheels spun to 70mph. That was peddling it on new Nitto 555 G2's. (street tires)

That has NEVER happened before.....period. I'll keep ya'll posted on the final.

I'm really glad you guys peaked my interest on getting involved......THANK YOU!!!!
Sounds like you are really dialing it in! That's great!

I have my shift points set to 6400-6450RPM. I didn't want to go past 6500RPM just to keep things conservative. It does seem to like the slightly higher shift points though.

5-6 degrees more of timing on top of Jay's tune seems like a lot. But if you're not getting any knock retard, then I guess it should be fine. What you'll find is the car will only go faster to a certain point. I tried adding more timing at the track over Jay's tune and my car did not increase mph at all. I lowered it back down and got the same mph again. So if you aren't getting any additional mph, then don't add anymore timing. You want to run as little timing as possible to get the max mph. Anything more just puts additional strain on the engine and makes you more prone to knock in hotter weather, with crummy fuel, etc.

The other thing I learned from tuning my Nova is that while a car may "feel" faster with more timing, it may not necessarily translate into a faster ET. Both my Nova and the Challenger seem to like more timing down low, to get the car moving, but then up top, they don't need to go as crazy with the timing. My Nova I ran with 32, 34, 36, and 38 timing at the track and it made the best mph with 34, so I kept it there. I then locked the timing out, so it had all 34 degrees right off the line, and I dropped my 60ft another tenth. Peak timing was still the same, but brought more in down low and faster, and it responded positively. My Nova "felt" faster on the street with 38 degrees, because it felt stronger down low and mid-range, but up top it didn't make any more power. In one case my distributor slipped and had advanced up to 44 degrees. My car lost .6 ET and 5mph! Put it back to where it should be and came right back.

Keep an eye on your mph at the track next time you run and trying adding/subtracting timing between passes and see if your mph moves at all. If it stays roughly the same, run the least amount of timing you can to get that max mph.

Regarding your fuel adjustments, without a wideband you're really just shooting in the dark. You could be way rich already and add another 2%, or you could be way lean, and adding 2% helped a little, but you're still way lean. You're likely in the ballpark, but without a wideband to use, it's really hard to say where your fueling should be.

Keep us posted how it does next time you run it!
cdahl383 is offline  
post #26 of 49 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 03:34 PM
Senior Member
 
Solidman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North Florida
Posts: 158
Thanks: 10
Thanked 53 Times in 37 Posts
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdahl383 View Post
Sounds like you are really dialing it in! That's great!

I have my shift points set to 6400-6450RPM. I didn't want to go past 6500RPM just to keep things conservative. It does seem to like the slightly higher shift points though.

5-6 degrees more of timing on top of Jay's tune seems like a lot. But if you're not getting any knock retard, then I guess it should be fine. What you'll find is the car will only go faster to a certain point. I tried adding more timing at the track over Jay's tune and my car did not increase mph at all. I lowered it back down and got the same mph again. So if you aren't getting any additional mph, then don't add anymore timing. You want to run as little timing as possible to get the max mph. Anything more just puts additional strain on the engine and makes you more prone to knock in hotter weather, with crummy fuel, etc.

The other thing I learned from tuning my Nova is that while a car may "feel" faster with more timing, it may not necessarily translate into a faster ET. Both my Nova and the Challenger seem to like more timing down low, to get the car moving, but then up top, they don't need to go as crazy with the timing. My Nova I ran with 32, 34, 36, and 38 timing at the track and it made the best mph with 34, so I kept it there. I then locked the timing out, so it had all 34 degrees right off the line, and I dropped my 60ft another tenth. Peak timing was still the same, but brought more in down low and faster, and it responded positively. My Nova "felt" faster on the street with 38 degrees, because it felt stronger down low and mid-range, but up top it didn't make any more power. In one case my distributor slipped and had advanced up to 44 degrees. My car lost .6 ET and 5mph! Put it back to where it should be and came right back.

Keep an eye on your mph at the track next time you run and trying adding/subtracting timing between passes and see if your mph moves at all. If it stays roughly the same, run the least amount of timing you can to get that max mph.

Regarding your fuel adjustments, without a wideband you're really just shooting in the dark. You could be way rich already and add another 2%, or you could be way lean, and adding 2% helped a little, but you're still way lean. You're likely in the ballpark, but without a wideband to use, it's really hard to say where your fueling should be.

Keep us posted how it does next time you run it!
Thanks a bunch Carl! As always....GREAT info!!

I am tuning off of a "known good Tune" that was on the dyno not too long ago. The A/F ratio was pretty much on the head at 12.5-12.7 across the board according to his "sniffing" equipment. I know weather and pressure changes hour to hour....but I am confident that I am not WAY off.

With the timing increases....I am just bumping the fuel to compensate. Today I jumped to 6 degrees and went to 4% fuel in the mid and upper ranges. I kept the low end at 2%. As suspected.....I did get ST KR (0 LT KR) of 1.5 - 3.0 on a shift above 100 mph. It happens at 5100 RPM...which is the zone famous for "false knock" on Mopars. I do believe it ......because it is a lot of timing and the load is the highest moving a heavy car at triple digits. I think I might pull back a degree in that range and add 1 more percent of fuel in that range as well.

I do know how the "butt dyno" can flat fool ya.....and it has. But this much I know.....I spun the tires today to 75 mph on the street peddling it. (never done that before) Stabbing it at 60mph is amazingly harder than before. Triple digits in a couple of seconds. Never pulled that hard before.

I'm going to make another adjustment and log it. As usual......I REALLY APPRECIATE your invaluable advice and knowledge!!!! I am new to this so every bit helps!

Now...if I run a 17.5 at the track....I will be in the witness protection program! lol Peddling it on the street is a COMPLETE joke now. 0-60 times are like 6 seconds+ because of tremendous wheelspin and full Nittos. I tried a couple of times and it is not even worth trying again.

My fear is that on the Track with the Hoosiers it will present a much higher load.....and kick in KR. My safety factor is this : I am tuning for zero KR or less than 1.0 with 93 octane only. I will ALWAYS add KLOTZ before the Track and that will give me another 2.5 octane - 3 octane #'s. That should take care of the extra load at the track. (in theory)

I dang sure do NOT want to hurt anything being foolish. Hopefully....my method should keep it safe. I know that LEAN will FRY a motor. So as long as I am adding fuel slightly with more timing....I SHOULD stay in the safe zone. COMMENTS APPRECIATED AND WELCOME...Gene
Solidman is offline  
post #27 of 49 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 06:38 PM
Senior Member
 
Solidman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North Florida
Posts: 158
Thanks: 10
Thanked 53 Times in 37 Posts
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
After playing with more timing and fuel......going back to 4 degrees and 2% across the board. It was happy there. No LT KR's but lots of ST KR's with more timing. Still a big gain over starting point. We'll see what happens at the track in the heat.....
Solidman is offline  
post #28 of 49 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 06:07 AM
Senior Member
 
Solidman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North Florida
Posts: 158
Thanks: 10
Thanked 53 Times in 37 Posts
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I know this is getting boring....but I thought I'd post my final tweak. 4 degrees timing advance in all ranges....added 2% fuel on low end, 4% fuel on mid and high end. This produced (2) .5 ST KR's on shifts in mid and high range on straight 93 ethanol.

I also removed the front sway bar....the front does rise a little more.....we'll see what it does to the 60ft times Saturday.

I also have the front tires straight now so we'll see if that helps. If I still have an 11 second car in the heat and bad DA I'm happy....
Solidman is offline  
post #29 of 49 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 02:35 PM
Member
 
vortecd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: MI
Posts: 97
Thanks: 2
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Send a message via AIM to vortecd Send a message via MSN to vortecd Send a message via Yahoo to vortecd
Good luck Saturday. I'm waiting on Jay to get back for an update on my tune (it is a little rich) and it looks like the next time I can run at the track will be the 31st

"Without DATA, you're just another person with an OPINION"

'17 Daytona 392
'18 Challenger R/T
vortecd is offline  
post #30 of 49 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 04:57 PM
Senior Member
 
Solidman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North Florida
Posts: 158
Thanks: 10
Thanked 53 Times in 37 Posts
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by vortecd View Post
Good luck Saturday. I'm waiting on Jay to get back for an update on my tune (it is a little rich) and it looks like the next time I can run at the track will be the 31st

Thanks a bunch Vortec I appreciate that! Yeah...he is on vacation with his sweetie. Why don't you lean it out a touch? Very easy and I SHOULD have done it before! Carl and Rob prodded me into doing it and my car came ALIVE! I just hope it translates into track times.

Take out 2% and try it. Take out just enough till it does not seem rich and stop. Jay tried to get me to peak it out before and I just didn't care. His tunes made it run so much better I just let him do it. Did SW get you new pipes yet?? Good luck as well on your next session too brother
Solidman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Dodge Challenger Forum: Challenger & SRT8 Forums > General, Performance, and Technical > Track Talk

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Dodge Challenger Forum: Challenger & SRT8 Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome