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post #21 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 08:22 AM
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As might be the case, I'm not incorrect.

Really tired of people casual suggesting we give up an individual freedom here and an individual freedom there for some security against some extremely rare scenario.
I am really tired of people who think they have the world figured out and their view is the only "correct" view.

So now that I am in the rabbit hole, let's look at your original response...where you couldn't give "two halves of a whole rat's ass" if someone was injured from the chase. Really?!...only a total ******* who only cares about himself would say that. Then you say, hey it's not fast cars that are the problem it is alcohol...when in the end it is ALWAYS people and usually irresponsible people at that.

You refer to individual freedom but why is it that individual freedom always seems to involve the ability to have the freedom to do wrong and a wrong that can cost lives? What is so terrible about police having the ability to shutdown a vehicle when it is being operated at triple digit speeds, which is against the law on every road in the US? It's better than throwing out a role of spikes or performing a PIT maneuver to bring a vehicle to a stop in a very violent manner. We are not talking about some guy doing some spirited driving on the highway but a thief that stole property who is running from justice and does not care if he injures or kills someone doing it. Giving up individual freedom...give me a break.


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post #22 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 10:29 AM
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I am really tired of people who think they have the world figured out and their view is the only "correct" view.

So now that I am in the rabbit hole, let's look at your original response...where you couldn't give "two halves of a whole rat's ass" if someone was injured from the chase. Really?!...only a total ******* who only cares about himself would say that. Then you say, hey it's not fast cars that are the problem it is alcohol...when in the end it is ALWAYS people and usually irresponsible people at that.

You refer to individual freedom but why is it that individual freedom always seems to involve the ability to have the freedom to do wrong and a wrong that can cost lives? What is so terrible about police having the ability to shutdown a vehicle when it is being operated at triple digit speeds, which is against the law on every road in the US? It's better than throwing out a role of spikes or performing a PIT maneuver to bring a vehicle to a stop in a very violent manner. We are not talking about some guy doing some spirited driving on the highway but a thief that stole property who is running from justice and does not care if he injures or kills someone doing it. Giving up individual freedom...give me a break.
I was trying to make a point.

1. I do care, I don't want anyone hurt, but I'm not willing to live in the tyranny of the stupid and having my liberties slowly chipped away every time some asshat breaks the rules. I may as well off myself now if that's going to be the case.

2. I'm not a prohibitionist, I enjoy my fair share of beer. Again, just trying to make a point.

3. What's wrong with it is the ability to misuse it, and what's sad with it is that you're more willing to let the government turn off your car whenever they feel like it, than give up drink.


Right and wrong is highly subjective, we could both agree a car thief driving triple digits down a populate highway deserves to be hung from the neck until dead, but someone will eventually come along and move the goal post on you. Suddenly, merely owning the car is grounds for punishment, so the government turns it off for you and takes it away at gun point.

Good luck, friend, don't fall down the slippery slope.

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post #23 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 10:42 AM
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Just to play devils adovcate here.... I guess it's certainly possible that allowing the car to be shut down when going over 100mph and having broken other laws that led to that speed, could possibly stop the goverment from eventually making it mandatory that vehicle manufacturers limit the speed of their vehicles to 99mph (for example) from the factory. So giving up that one thing, could stop further, more drasitc limitations from being enforced...
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post #24 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 10:51 AM
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Just to play devils adovcate here.... I guess it's certainly possible that allowing the car to be shut down when going over 100mph and having broken other laws that led to that speed, could possibly stop the goverment from eventually making it mandatory that vehicle manufacturers limit the speed of their vehicles to 99mph (for example) from the factory. So giving up that one thing, could stop further, more drasitc limitations from being enforced...
Tried and true, the more power you give ANY government the more they will abuse it.

One thing leads to another, it's always the tiniest of things that trigger what eventually turns into an avalanche.
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post #25 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 11:55 AM
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I understand - however.... As they put more and more powerful engines in these cars from the factory (includng electric cars), these high-speed chases are likely to get worse and occur more frequently. I would rather the cops be able to shut down an offending car (based on license plate or something) that is running from them, going over 100mph (for example) and putting everyone else at risk - than to have the government implement rules for ALL cars from the factory (such as speed limiters) to reduce the chances of this happening.

I'm just saying that giving the government the ability to handle these specific issues directly as one-offs *may* help avoid even worse, "global" restrictions such as something like mandatory speed limiters for ALL vehicles in the future.

Again, just playing devils advocate... Sometimes, you have to take the lesser of two evils. :-) If these super high-speed chases continue to get worse and cost more and more lives, *something* would probably be done - I'd rahter that something target the specific idiots doing those things than impact everyone (and every car).
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post #26 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 12:08 PM
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Jtrosky and praisev8, you both make very valid points, however I don't think the solution is going to be found in modification of the machine. Governors can be bypassed and have been for years. A slug that shuts down the vehicle is only as effective as the operator is precise in its use. Excessive speeding and reckless behaviors are just that, BEHAVIORS. Such behaviors require modification.

As a former correctional officer and prison nurse more recently, I can honestly say that prison is a slap on the wrist. In many cases the inmate has more right and liberties that the underpaid officers watching over them. Make prison a miserable place to be again and maybe people will be less likely to engage in activities that could result in jail time.
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post #27 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by praiseV8 View Post
1. I do care, I don't want anyone hurt, but I'm not willing to live in the tyranny of the stupid and having my liberties slowly chipped away every time some asshat breaks the rules. I may as well off myself now if that's going to be the case.

2. I'm not a prohibitionist, I enjoy my fair share of beer. Again, just trying to make a point.

3. What's wrong with it is the ability to misuse it, and what's sad with it is that you're more willing to let the government turn off your car whenever they feel like it, than give up drink.

Right and wrong is highly subjective, we could both agree a car thief driving triple digits down a populate highway deserves to be hung from the neck until dead, but someone will eventually come along and move the goal post on you. Suddenly, merely owning the car is grounds for punishment, so the government turns it off for you and takes it away at gun point.

Good luck, friend, don't fall down the slippery slope.
OMG...classic praiseV8. Right and wrong is highly subjective...do you read what you type? If you don't know right from wrong...maybe the government should restrict your individual freedom.

1) How does saying you don't give a rat's ass equate...no wait...I do care? Stop back pedaling and own up to what you originally wrote...your point was, you don't care about other people's lives...what is more important to you is your interpretation of individual freedom is not compromised.

2) How does throwing in alcohol tie into your point about preserving individual freedom? Government says you can't drink it while driving a car, if you do you go to jail. For people who do not know that is wrong, the government steps in and requires a breathalyzer (for a short period of time) to be installed in their vehicle and blow below a 0.08 otherwise the car won't start. Ah but your point is you want to have the freedom to do so if you choose and if you accidentally kill someone while doing it well hell at least your individual freedom was not compromised.

3) WTH are you talking about...where in my posts did I defend alcohol or refuse to "give up drink" over individual freedom? I said alcohol (just like guns....and fast cars) doesn't cause problems by itself it is irresponsible people using alcohol that do. How did you interpret that as me not wanting to give up drink?

From your interpretation of "individual freedom" it sounds like you are against the government tracking and prohibiting where sex offenders live as it violates their individual freedom.
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post #28 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by jtrosky View Post
I understand - however.... As they put more and more powerful engines in these cars from the factory (includng electric cars), these high-speed chases are likely to get worse and occur more frequently. I would rather the cops be able to shut down an offending car (based on license plate or something) that is running from them, going over 100mph (for example) and putting everyone else at risk - than to have the government implement rules for ALL cars from the factory (such as speed limiters) to reduce the chances of this happening.

I'm just saying that giving the government the ability to handle these specific issues directly as one-offs *may* help avoid even worse, "global" restrictions such as something like mandatory speed limiters for ALL vehicles in the future.

Again, just playing devils advocate... Sometimes, you have to take the lesser of two evils. :-) If these super high-speed chases continue to get worse and cost more and more lives, *something* would probably be done - I'd rahter that something target the specific idiots doing those things than impact everyone (and every car).
Continue?

This is being blown out of proportion. High speed incidents aren't becoming more frequent, and they're not usually perpetrated by high performance cars exclusively.

How would that even be enforced? It's like current emissions laws, you'd have to REALLY screw the pooch to get caught by law enforcement breaking them. How harshly do you enforce it? Is it a slap on the wrist fix it ticket? Car crushed? Jail time?

You see how it doesn't really fix anything and turns into either revenue collection or good ol' fascism?

Making more laws for something that's already illegal is pointless bureaucracy.
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post #29 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 12:27 PM
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Tried and true, the more power you give ANY government the more they will abuse it.

One thing leads to another, it's always the tiniest of things that trigger what eventually turns into an avalanche.
Schizophrenia much? Give a government too little power and it is overrun by tyrants.
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post #30 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 12:33 PM
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This is being blown out of proportion. High speed incidents aren't becoming more frequent, and they're not usually perpetrated by high performance cars exclusively.
Agreed and you are the one blowing it out of proportion by pulling other examples of how the government can F you over. BTW this is not the first time the HC made news because of its ability to reach high speeds...so your argument that is not more frequent is flawed.
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