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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-21-2013, 05:13 PM
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i know this is a old post but DI is superior for fuel milage,emissions as well as power. and yes you do get oil build up on the valves as well as carbon. im a diesel mechanic for 25 yrs and have seen the evolution of DI. from its simplest form to todays systems its a beast. but with that said we still have power loss due to carbon/oil build up on valves.. till we can figure out a way to do away with lubricating the valve stem or removing valve completely this will always be a issue. it just needs to be a common practice to do a motorvac or equivalent procedure to take care of the issue.
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-26-2013, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by killerride View Post
i know this is a old post but DI is superior for fuel milage,emissions as well as power. and yes you do get oil build up on the valves as well as carbon. im a diesel mechanic for 25 yrs and have seen the evolution of DI. from its simplest form to todays systems its a beast. but with that said we still have power loss due to carbon/oil build up on valves.. till we can figure out a way to do away with lubricating the valve stem or removing valve completely this will always be a issue. it just needs to be a common practice to do a motorvac or equivalent procedure to take care of the issue.
From what I am reading, not all DI has carbon buildup issues on the valves. For instance, I have heard that GM's version does not. Seems like a problem more with the VW/Audi design than a DI design issue.
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-26-2013, 04:44 PM
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Isn't this what a Catch Can helps to reduce, these deposits, as quoted from the above article?: "DI engines are prone to forming oily deposits on the intake valves, unlike in port fuel-injected engines, where a constant spray of fuel into the port allows any deposits to wash away." The PCV (Postive Crankcase Ventilation) Valve sends these crankcase vapors, which are caused by piston ring blowby and oil vapors (if I remember correctly), into the air intake and travels into the combustion chamber to be burned by the combustion of fuel. As these oily vapors travel across the valve, these are what contribute to these deposits, correct? Maybe not causing 100% of the deposits, but a major portion I would assume, in any PCV equipped engine.
I am in no way an engine expert, but from what I do know from working around the garage on various combustion engines, anything that helps reduce the oil vapors from traveling into the intake runners will help reduce these deposits on the intake valves.

Any thoughts on this? Why not add a catch can system on a DI engine to help reduce these deposits, or is their a mandate that a PCV be used to keep these fumes from being sent into the atmosphere like they were before PCV valves? I know from reading up on Catch Cans, the auto makers wouldn't want to add a Catch Can and require it's emptying. Too many people would forget or neglect to perform this needed maintenance.

EDIT: If I had read the entire article first, I would've found this: "All modern gasoline engines return some crankcase and exhaust gases back through the intake manifold in order to help control emissions, but, according to Chick, some exhaust-gas recirculation designs are “dirtier" than others. Some, he said, are less-effective at preventing the passage of tiny bits of oil, carbon and other particulates that eventually get baked onto the intake ports and valves."

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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-29-2014, 02:59 PM
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GM still has a major problem with the DI cars. GM says they don't but the mechanics I know see major carbon build up still to this day on the DI GM stuff. A catch can will help but its only a matter of time before there is carbon build up again. A lot more going on other than just the intake charge carrying the oil in.

I will NOT buy a car with DI until its proven that there is no more carbon build up problem. Right not its no where near fixed.

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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-02-2014, 10:18 PM
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Direct injection is awesome, for like a year. Just did a carbon cleaning on a VW 2.0L FSI engine with 40k miles on it. Im a mech. at VW and we do those on the regular. Got a used Cadillac 3.6 DI in that needs a carbon cleaning too. Its a big issue with any direct inject car really. And is it worth it? Chrysler is making 300hp with a v6 that gets 30mpg...with MPI. That Cadillac is also a 3.6. Same power (i think, nothing greatly different) Gets the same, if not less gas mileage and its direct injected...more stuff to go wrong if you ask me. The injectors are a PITA to service also. Personally, from a mechanics POV its not worth the effort. The little Direct Injection badges look and sound cool though. On the plus side, Audi's new FSI motor contains DI and MPI for both efficiency and valve cleaning lol. Talk about over engineered.
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-28-2014, 07:10 AM
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Alot of the timing we see pulled in our is from the oil/carbon build on the pistons.
I have 5000miles on the new motor, catch can always been on it.
In 5000 miles the oil the CC misses, is on my piston tops right now. Causing ST timing to be pulled.
This is why I dont vent into my motor anymore. I vent to open air and use a electric vaccum pump. Look for a thread write up soon on this issue of carbon and decarbon the motor and one for the vac pump system I use..
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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-02-2014, 08:47 PM
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Alot of the timing we see pulled in our is from the oil/carbon build on the pistons.
I have 5000miles on the new motor, catch can always been on it.
In 5000 miles the oil the CC misses, is on my piston tops right now. Causing ST timing to be pulled.
This is why I dont vent into my motor anymore. I vent to open air and use a electric vaccum pump. Look for a thread write up soon on this issue of carbon and decarbon the motor and one for the vac pump system I use..
FlatTop
Very interesting cant wait to see your post/write up on this.
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-29-2014, 06:53 PM
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Does anyone know if someone makes parts to fit a viper motor into a 3.6l challenger or knows someone who can do it? If I can get a viper motor, trans, and harness


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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-08-2014, 02:38 PM
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The only experience I have with DFI (if you want to call it that) is with my wife's '13 Kia Optima I bought last year. It has a tiny 1.8 liter turbo and makes 276 HP!! Gotta be honest, I'm truly impressed with that little engine. A couple guys with a chain and a 2x4 could yank that engine out! :yes nod:

At least I got the lifetime warranty in case it does decide to "carbon up" down the road. So far so good though, but it only has a bit over 14K on it.

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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-06-2014, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rscarawa View Post
I know oil builds up on my truck's throttlebody too. How does oil get in there?

Is this a problem on all direct injection motors or just certain brands?
It is due to intake air pulse reversion. It is a feature of any naturally aspirated four stroke engine that uses old tech intake and exhaust valves. The valve coking problem on DI engines has not been resolved yet to my knowledge.

The valve coking is one problem where I think a oil catch can could possibly help, however valve face and seat life will be shortened.

Sometimes new technology brings new problems.
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