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FCA Responsibility for Defects

16K views 37 replies 15 participants last post by  ChallyTatum 
#1 ·
I know it's a bad reminder of a litigious society, but has anybody thought about a class-action Lawsuit against FCA for the basic design defects in the 6.4L/392? For example, the defective lifter design that just ate my 2012 392 at
77,000 miles? There is no legitimate reason for such a basic engineering flaw. Considering how expensive it is to repair this with having to dismantle the front of the car (Challenger) and stripping the engine down to the short block, they should have to pay for it.
 
#2 ·
This reminds me of the timing chain guide problem (and breaking timing chains) that affected the '09 - '13 and some '14 5.7 & A5 engines in Challengers.

There was a filing made with NHTSA about the incidences of this, citing that chains could break down on the road, creating a safety hazard.

FCA took notice and came out with a service campaign.

So for there's not been that many instances - I recall about 3 - 4 (to date) on the forum. They've involved 6.1 SRT engines and the 392 / 6.4 SRT engine as well.

The needle bearings in the roller lifter appear the failure item. This lifter is used on 5.7 / 6.1 / 6.4 engines (same part #). So its spanned multiple years.

There may have been bad batches from the supplier - there's millions on these engines (Jeeps and Ram trucks use the 5.7 and the 6.4 BGE) and I've heard of this occurring at times on high mileage Rams, but more the exception than typical...[Eberspacher is the supplier of the lifters...]

With the 392 engine being more recent in production, I don't if its a matter of time when they get more miles on them and if this turns up more frequently.

If more claims turn up, FCA might take action on this.
 
#3 ·
Hope you have good service records, if you're just out of warranty they *might* be nice and agree to pay for repairs. Even if it's half, it helps.

By the way, don't you think you should introduce yourself and/or maybe tell a more in-depth story first? If this is your first post on here, well no offense but it looks like you just joined to complain.

Welcome to Challengertalk.
 
#4 ·
Thank for elaborating on that. I suspected a flaw in the roller design/materials, but didn't know specifics. 77000 miles is far too low for a failure of this kind, whether bad design or manufacturing. In any case, several enquiries into the local CJD shop have gotten no reponse to this.
 
#6 ·
If you have a used car without a warranty it doesn’t surprise me that they are only willing to diagnose, not offer an explanation of where your car has been and what has been done to it...

Did you buy your car new or used?
 
#5 · (Edited)
I’ve read about plenty of lifter issues with 5.7 motors, more on ths forum than the other motors IMO. Especially lots of excessive ticking sound issues. I have not had a lifter-related problem with any of the three SRT Hemis I have owned, although I occasionally hear ticking cycles from my car, sometimes while hot idling or a hot restart, but it’s never a long lasting thing and it’s not frequent. I also will get occasional ticking on a cold start, but it goes away quick, all three of my motors have done that. Cold start sounds for V8s are not unusual IMO.

While you do read about failures and issues online, I have never met someone in person with a lifter-related failure, and I meet a lot of modern Mopar owners. I think these modern Hemis are actually quite robust and reliable for the high hp/tQ motors they are and stack up fairly well compared to the competition when it comes to reliability issues.
 
#11 · (Edited)
I’ve read about plenty of lifter issues with 5.7 motors, more on ths forum than the other motors IMO.
Not too long ago there were a couple of 6.4L with bad lifters posted on the forum.

If you guys want to gripe about defects then I think FCA should fix the freaking water pump design as well. Way more folks with early and multiple water pump failures than lifter failures. My 5.7 JGC now has over 100k miles on it and so far so good on the lifters but it is on its 3rd water pump. :bowdown:
 
#8 ·
Likewise, I have a 2012 Challenger SRT8 Yellow Jacket, but with 34,000 miles. Auto trans, I purchased with 31,000 in Dec last year. I've been quoted 3,700 to fix as a lifter in cyl 3 fashioned and chewed up the CAM.

FCA is not willing to help as I don't have enough good faith credit because the car was not serviced at a dealer. Even though I've purchased 3 other Dodge/ Chrysler vehicles in the past 10 yrs.

2 Magnums and a Minivan, lol...

And from what I've been reading this seems to be very common on the auto transmission cars with MDS.



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
#9 ·
Did you buy this through a CDJR dealer as a used vehicle? Often the pre owned FCA brands have a certified / pre-owned program with some warranty.

Since you've only put 3K on it over the past 3 months...that cam issue didn't happen suddenly. It had been going on for a time.

You may have recourse or goodwill adjustment if the sale wasn't "as-is" terms.

If this was through another dealership, perhaps not a CPO, but you could ask.

After all, you didn't own the vehicle for the first 6 years, 31k...
 
#16 ·
Wow I did not know they wee the same as in the 5.7l too.. I thought I Dodged a bullet in my 2015 R/T.
Yep...The Bacon Hauler got a new camshaft at 90K miles, though it was actually hauling bacon back then and not yet under my stewardship...

I have never received a notice for the timing chain on my 2013 R/T...the stealership did recently perform the alternator recall on my car but they are not showing anything for the timing chain?? I only have a little over 20,000 miles on the car but I don't want the motor to grenade when the timing chain goes and it's just outa warranty too of course...financially there is no way I could afford that if the motor goes south. Just lovely....
The drivetrain has to have a specific final drive ratio to get the recall. Any car with the manual transmission is not affected, same for those 5.7L+A8 cars. It's mostly 5.7L+A5+3.06 cars, with some 5.7L+A5+2.65 cars possibly sprinkled in. You can check the outstanding recalls yourself on their website. If you car doesn't show to have the recall due, you're good to go.
 
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#12 ·
At least you don't hear of timing chain failures anymore.
 
#14 ·
I have never received a notice for the timing chain on my 2013 R/T...the stealership did recently perform the alternator recall on my car but they are not showing anything for the timing chain?? I only have a little over 20,000 miles on the car but I don't want the motor to grenade when the timing chain goes and it's just outa warranty too of course...financially there is no way I could afford that if the motor goes south. Just lovely....
 
#23 ·
Well I used that website with my VIN and only 2 things came up...the alternator recall, whitch I already did...and the airbag recall..it says parts are available so I guess I'll try to get that scheduled.



And that was it..nothing about the timing chain. My car was built in April of 2013 so I guess by then they had corrected the defect on the factory line?
 
#24 ·
Well I used that website with my VIN and only 2 things came up...the alternator recall, whitch I already did...and the airbag recall..it says parts are available so I guess I'll try to get that scheduled.
If the alternator recall has already been done, it should not show up on the report still. Did you have the service performed at a Dodge dealership service department? If so, you should call them and let them know some recall work is still showing on your car's report so they can correct it.

It if was not done by a dealership service department, I believe you can submit a request to be reimbursed for the amount you paid (or up to some amount of the bill) to get the recall item replaced. Check that recall page on the dodge site for more details on that.

And that was it..nothing about the timing chain. My car was built in April of 2013 so I guess by then they had corrected the defect on the factory line?
It sounds like they did have it figured out by then.
 
#25 ·
Well it listed the recalls for my car, and it listed a status for each one. For the alternator it said it was completed along with the date, whitch was 20 July 2017, and that is correct. I had it done here at my local Dodge Stealership. Then it had a incomplete for the airbag so I guess now it lists all the recalls and a status if they were done or not. Maybe they changed it since the last time you were on the website Nuke? Anyway I am so relieved about the timing chain...I was afraid I had a ticking time bomb about to go off...literally..
 
#26 ·
No, that's fine, I was thinking of a different report where it only listed the ones that were outstanding. As long as the status of the particular recall is correct, you're good to go! :thumbsup:
 
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#30 ·
That's definitely a win for the Crown Vic and a testament to the craftsmanship of previous decades. A shame how we as consumers let car manufacturers so easily of the hook for reliability these days, especially considering how much more the vehicles cost these days compared to before.
 
#31 ·
Anyone know if it would be safe to use a Zinc additive to oil in our cars? Would it help prevent this problem?

Does anyone make Soil Roller Lifters and adjustable rocker arms? That might get rid of the Hemi Tick, MDS and failing lifters all in one swap.
 
#33 ·
zinc tends to cause ash / contamination issues with catalytic converters - one of the reasons its been phased out.

on old flat tappet engines, zinc additives are necessary due to the high friction point between lifter / cam
 
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#32 ·
I have always heard zinc is not required for roller cam break-in
https://www.onallcylinders.com/2015/06/24/roller-derby-how-to-properly-break-in-a-roller-camshaft/

However, I still find examples where zinc is recommended.
https://help.summitracing.com/app/a...do-i-break-in-my roller-camshaft-and-lifters?

While others recommend using the oil recommended by the supplier (aka lifter manufacturer).
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/dont-rub-cam-wrong-way/

As for oil for the infamous hemi tic, there was a company (don't recall the name off hand) that would make a special blend off of your used oil sample. Some folks swore this was the fix. :dunno:
 
#34 ·
As for oil for the infamous hemi tic, there was a company (don't recall the name off hand) that would make a special blend off of your used oil sample. Some folks swore this was the fix. :dunno:
At the risk of starting a love it/hate it war :) May have been BND Automotive

A Guy
 
#36 ·
Yeah, it's "Right on the edge"...

A Guy
 
#37 ·
I think FCA should re-think their rims. I've had five Ram 1500s and 2 challengers. I've had the all four rims replaced on four of these vehicles because of corrosion. My daughter has a 2013 Dart and has the same issue, all the rims are so corroded they cannot be saved, of course her car is out of warranty. This problem is on the aluminum and chrome clad wheels as far as i can tell. I have not seen the problem on the black rims. I don't know if it is because they are powder coated. I have not seen this problem on any other OEM manufacturer rims on vehicles I have owned in the past.
 
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