MDS Delete kit? - Page 3 - Dodge Challenger Forum: Challenger & SRT8 Forums
Bolt On's Anything related to the quick Bolt-On mods. This includes cams, heads, catch cans, shifters, T-stats, coils, injectors, strut braces, etc.

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post #21 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-08-2018, 06:55 PM
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AFDOC,

Buy a handheld tuner and turn MDS off.

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post #22 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-11-2018, 10:09 AM
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post #23 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-19-2018, 03:17 PM
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Hi all, old users whose been away for few years, read this post and thought I'd throw some info in. Tomorrow I am replacing a friends 2010 Charger SRT8 6.1 non-MDS engine due to lifter failure. 70,190 miles and the owner babied the car since new. Changed the oil with synthetic religiously every 4000 miles, never idled long. Motor inside is so clean you can eat off it and the No5 cyl intake lifter failed. So I'm not sold on the thought this issue is only MDS.

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post #24 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-19-2018, 07:59 PM
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The only thing all the failures have in common appears to be the rollers on the lifters. MDS lifters’ guts are different from non-MDS lifters’ guts, but the roller tips that make contact with the camshaft lobe are the same as far as I can tell.

So maybe it’s a poorly designed bearing for that roller, or maybe it’s a poorly manufactured roller tip that is prone to behavior which facilitates oscillations or something, that over time will cause the bearing to lock up....I don’t know, I’m not very familiar with the lifter architecture.

But there is something inherent with the lifters that can lead to failure after some time spent inside an operating engine, and there doesn’t appear to be a good way to predict the engines that are most at risk.

Some folks will say having/using MDS is a good indicator, but I think that is more correlation than causation. The engines with MDS will have a higher failure rate simply by virtue of there being more of them on the road than there are non-MS engines.

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post #25 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-19-2018, 11:34 PM
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Theoretically, the roller contact should remain the same. Curious if the failures occur on one of the four intake lobes with the primary ramp and the secondary ramp?


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post #26 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-20-2018, 12:21 AM
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The facebooks on the internets say its usually #3 or #5 goes.

The ones I have seen with the roller turned sideways in the bore I suspect is over rev but like most things on the internet its impossible to get accurate data.

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post #27 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-20-2018, 03:09 AM
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I just saw that pic of the MDS lifter that @ChallyTatum posted a while back, and from it I see that the lifters depend upon a set of needle bearings to keep the rollers rolling. But my question would be, "What is lubricating those needle bearings?"

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If it is just the engine oil as I suspect, I'm wondering if that design of the roller with needle bearings is what the problem is here. Whatever method they designed and implemented to lubricate those needle bearings would seem to NOT be up to the task, for more than 150K miles anyway.

All it would take would be one incident where one of the needles got scored, and from then on it's just a matter of time before the whole set of them weld up and stop the roller from rolling.

In other words, it may be worse than we thought - there may be no way to prevent it; it could just be the luck of the draw as to who's camshaft will need to be replaced at some point.
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post #28 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-20-2018, 09:02 AM
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@Nuke , I can't find a picture showing it on an MDS lifter but there should be a small passage in the lifter body that feeds the roller from the lifter oil gallery.



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post #29 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-20-2018, 05:47 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Matthews View Post
AFDOC,

Buy a handheld tuner and turn MDS off.
MDS off since 2012.


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post #30 of 50 (permalink) Old 10-20-2018, 06:00 PM
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The main oil galleries supply oil directly to the MDS solenoids, and the oil for the lifters come down through the pushrods, from the rockers. I'm assuming the lifter is providing oil for the roller?

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