Best supercharger - Page 4 - Dodge Challenger Forum: Challenger & SRT8 Forums
Forced Induction From Blowers to Turbos

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #31 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-05-2018, 11:29 AM
Senior Member
 
ChallyTatum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: The state where 4 out of 7 former Governors went to jail
Posts: 4,484
Thanks: 447
Thanked 1,046 Times in 871 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevewhiteparts View Post
the other issue with anything tuned with Diablo system, the system will never test for readiness codes, so anything 2015 and newer has a major issue in emissions states....even when the car will pass, under their tuning it will never test out of readiness codes, hence never pass a state inspection
Funny thing you mentioned this...I am have been trying to get my O2 and Cat test in a completed state (none of the DTCs disabled in the tune and the rear O2s are not disabled). Illinois follows the EPA guideline and allows only 1 incomplete monitor but unfortunately the O2 and Cat are linked and the original DS tune from Arrington would have never allowed me to pass emissions. I have yet to try the driving sequence to get the monitors to go into effect, my car rarely sees the highway. It sucks that every time you write a change to the PCM the monitor status resets.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2015 Challenger RT+ M6 (non-STP)
8lb Magnuson w/ Innovate PSB-1 wideband/boost/shift light gauge
Corsa extreme (2.5")
4" Aluminum one-piece driveshaft
Hellcat bottom airbox
Stainless Works LT headers (2" primaries)
Barton shifter assembly w/ Lou's short shaft and Speed Dawg knob
Comp Cam 7929 & 7748 push rods (gives slightly more lifter preload)
A2speed aluminum coil and valve covers (built in catchcan)
ChallyTatum is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-05-2018, 12:08 PM
Supporting Vendor
 
stevewhiteparts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: NEWTON, NC
Posts: 11,393
Thanks: 1,755
Thanked 3,230 Times in 2,061 Posts
Feedback Score: 6 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChallyTatum View Post
Funny thing you mentioned this...I am have been trying to get my O2 and Cat test in a completed state (none of the DTCs disabled in the tune and the rear O2s are not disabled). Illinois follows the EPA guideline and allows only 1 incomplete monitor but unfortunately the O2 and Cat are linked and the original DS tune from Arrington would have never allowed me to pass emissions. I have yet to try the driving sequence to get the monitors to go into effect, my car rarely sees the highway. It sucks that every time you write a change to the PCM the monitor status resets.
most likely with a diablo based tune, it will never pass emissions, because it never allows the test to run, now using HP Tuner more and more,
Luke

THANK YOU FOR SHOPPING WITH US
WE WILL NOT BE UNDERSOLD!!!!!!
PLEASE VISIT

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

FOR THE BEST MOPAR PARTS PRICES ON THE INTERNET!!!!!!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

828-324-4410
800-779-3634

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
stevewhiteparts is offline  
post #33 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-05-2018, 12:16 PM
Senior Member
 
ChallyTatum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: The state where 4 out of 7 former Governors went to jail
Posts: 4,484
Thanks: 447
Thanked 1,046 Times in 871 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevewhiteparts View Post
most likely with a diablo based tune, it will never pass emissions, because it never allows the test to run, now using HP Tuner more and more,
Luke
I switched over to HP and noticed that a lot of the engine diagnostics were disabled which I fixed (compared stock tune to DS tune and re-enabled all the DTC...surprisingly no codes have been thrown) which helped get most of the monitors to complete. The O2 and Cat need a specific drive test to have them enable (there have been a few posts here were guys followed the procedure to the letter and the monitors finally completed). I guess if you drive the car regularly on the highway it will eventually complete but like I said my car is pretty much 100% city driving. If I do get on the highway it is usually under 15 minutes.
ChallyTatum is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-05-2018, 12:57 PM
Senior Member
 
Toxic11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Greensburg, PA
Posts: 6,321
Thanks: 697
Thanked 1,655 Times in 992 Posts
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
This thread is proof why this forum is so awesome! So much knowledge being laid out there for everyone.

I am kinda glad I don't have a 15+ the tune that was written for my 2011 has been absolutely beautiful.

It's a damn shame the auto mfg's are making it as hard as possible to tinker with the ECU's.

In my C43 I actually had to take the ECU out of the car and mail it down to Maryland. They crack it open and
actually attach wired to the PCB to reprogram. I had to overnight it down and pay shipping both ways and it

cost me $2200 for a tune. But, that tune took my car from 362 horse (crank) to 500 horse (crank) so it was
well worth it! But a Hand Held Tuner sure would be nice!

.........Brett DiMichele
2011 Toxic Orange SRT8 "Toxy" (Supercherged)
2017 Mercedes Benz AMG C43 "Stormy" (Turbocherged)
2004 Dodge Ram 1500 Rumble Bee "Rusty" (Worn out)
Toxic11 is offline  
post #35 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-05-2018, 02:35 PM
Senior Member
 
us1champ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: ankeny, ia
Posts: 3,455
Thanks: 73
Thanked 544 Times in 388 Posts
Feedback Score: 10 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic11 View Post
This thread is proof why this forum is so awesome! So much knowledge being laid out there for everyone.

I am kinda glad I don't have a 15+ the tune that was written for my 2011 has been absolutely beautiful.

It's a damn shame the auto mfg's are making it as hard as possible to tinker with the ECU's.

In my C43 I actually had to take the ECU out of the car and mail it down to Maryland. They crack it open and
actually attach wired to the PCB to reprogram. I had to overnight it down and pay shipping both ways and it

cost me $2200 for a tune. But, that tune took my car from 362 horse (crank) to 500 horse (crank) so it was
well worth it! But a Hand Held Tuner sure would be nice!


So my question regarding all of this is

Why does edelbrock have a complete kit no injector issues I am aware of.
Whipple has a complete kit with again same situation
Pro charger has a complete kit again same scenario ( one of the first to market for dodge that I am aware of )

Why would magnuson who at one point as Luke pointed at was owned BY THE OLD ARRINGTON WHO WAS ONLY DODGE PERFORMANCE not have a complete kit to this day that is bolt on ready to go without a bunch of make shift modifications as has been mentioned numerous times in this thread.
I don’t understand how a co like that and now with challenger sales growing and there past history with a co part owned co can’t get there act together and make a nice bolt on. No shimming this cutting that kit?

Or am I expecting to much. Taking in mind I have done all my own work from nose to bumper and most people would be happy with just pulling out of the box and bolting on.......

Any FYI the new Arrington who is going strong I guess ( per my friends car that he just got back ) really likes whipple
They are also looking at a complete new product line

OH LOL and get this. There tuner. Is the tuner for magnuson lol. Wrap your head around that





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2009 SRT
MAGNUSON TVS 2300 12LB BLOWER WITH ARRINGTON PERFORMANCE TUNED & DROP IN PISTONS AND RODS, KOOKS LONG TUBE HEADERS
ARRINGTON FRONT STRUT TOWER BRACE
BILLET TECH FUEL DOOR BADGE, DOORLOCK PINS, DEVO STRUT TOWER COVERS, COMPLETE UNDERHOOD KIT IN RED, POP CAN DELETE DISC'S, SRT WHEEL CENTERS, DOOR JAM INSERTS,
CANTON SUPER CHARGER COOLANT TANK
BARTON SHORT THROW SHIFTER WITH MOPAR SHORT THROW HANDLE]
CUSTOM HEAD RESTS
SPEEDLOGIX A-PILLAR POD W/ AUTOMETER CARBON FIBER GUAGES
us1champ is offline  
post #36 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-05-2018, 03:47 PM
Senior Member
 
ChallyTatum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: The state where 4 out of 7 former Governors went to jail
Posts: 4,484
Thanks: 447
Thanked 1,046 Times in 871 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Putting my bias of the maggie aside, of the three PD super chargers vendors (Edel, Whipple, Mag)...I hear you @us1champ the maggie kit ranks as a Napa parts bin closeout...it really does suck. The maggie kit I bought from Arrington back in May 2017 "was" complete and shipped from Magnuson directly. HOWEVER, the problem with the kit was complete for a 2009-2010 model...I had a 2015. The snout was too short, the fuse tap was the wrong type, there was no short IAT sensor (you were supposed to used the one that came with the car but the newer year challengers came stock with the long one) and the pulley was for a 6lb kit not 8lb. Once I got all the correct parts (Arrington did get everything addressed promptly even though they were in the midst of a change in ownership) assembly was a breeze. Did everything myself except for mounting the blower on the block (too heavy for one guy with no cherry picker) and did not have to take the front clip off. The injector size also depended on whether you bought the 6 or 8 lb kit. Oh and by the way the belt size was wack...I think they had the belt sizes reversed or something along those lines. Other than this fecal show (apparently this still happens to the +2015 guys that buy the self install kits) the maggie has performed flawlessly (did get belt squeal but the thump racing tensioner and correct belt size fixed that).

On thing to note is the Edel and Mag kits use similar Eaton blower design but the new Edel kits run a larger blower 2.65L as opposed to the 2.3L and have a larger intercooler...again bigger blower.

So taking all this into consideration I would rank the PD super charger pecking order in terms of performance and fit/finish for the DIYer as:

Whipple 2.9L (may require hood notch)
Edelbrock 2.65L (does not require hood notch)
Magnuson 2.3L (does not require hood notch)

That said the Maggie has done well by me and I have come to forgive the short comings of the kit (the shorter snout just pissed me off...I mean how do you miss that?!). I would have gone with the whipple but it was price (was ~$1.5k more for the whipple and it used a boost-a-pump instead of a larger fuel pump that API offered) and quietness (my rear diff whined enough) of the SC unit that made me buy the maggie. Also at the time of purchase the 2.65 Eaton did not exist yet and Edelbrock only offered a 6lb kit, hence no need for different injectors. That and there were a lot more folks running the maggie kits with no issues. Meanwhile the whipple guys were complaining of the light switch effect throttle. Nowadays I would say this is a moot point as the tunes and tuners have gotten better. Heck I think all PD super chargers were running a little orifice that would delay boost to prevent instant boost and boost during PT...that is no longer needed as the tune can address this...just ask the guys on the HP tuner site.

As for the maggie 8lb kit I bought, I paid $7200 out the door (no tax/shipping). It came with:

Unlocked PCM
Trinity Tuner -- (I wish they used HP tuners instead but the trinity makes logging a breeze)
Tuning support -- (typically turn around was ~2days)
Magnuson PD kit with 60# injectors -- (API supplied the short IAT sensor and their upgraded SC idlers)
Crank pin kit -- (also bought a short 90 deg pneumatic drill shortest from HF)
API's fuel pump upgrade -- (bought the ring lock tool instead of using a brass punch and hammer)

This was everything that I needed to get the system installed and tuned. Install took only a total of 2 days but it took an extra month to get the right pulley, snout and tune dialed in.

Just another data point for you folks thinking of going forced induction.

Last edited by ChallyTatum; 11-06-2018 at 07:37 AM.
ChallyTatum is offline  
post #37 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-05-2018, 03:59 PM
Supporting Vendor
 
stevewhiteparts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: NEWTON, NC
Posts: 11,393
Thanks: 1,755
Thanked 3,230 Times in 2,061 Posts
Feedback Score: 6 reviews
our kits are pretty complete and well put together, 2009/2010 kits are not the same kit.....driveability is also much better with the Magnuson,

Edelbrock does not have a tune kit, only tuner kit, no tuning for 2015 and up and $7142.72

Whipple does offer a kit at $7450.00 ( have never used their tuning, dont know much about them)

Our tuner kits are now $6195.00.....everything but tuner and tuning
stevewhiteparts is offline  
post #38 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-06-2018, 05:51 PM
Senior Member
 
Toxic11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Greensburg, PA
Posts: 6,321
Thanks: 697
Thanked 1,655 Times in 992 Posts
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
I don't know how they (whom ever wrote the Maggie install doc) figured you can drill the crank with the rad and
everything in the way. I bought a brand new Ryobi 90 degree drill thinking it would work and then when I tried to
get up in there I was like NOPE.

I took my crash bumper off took out the rad and laid the condensor/trans cooler to the side and was able to sit
there in between the fenders and work on it with ease and grace

I had none of the issues you had. Everything in my kit was spot on. If I would have dealt with what you did I

would have been highly aggravated to put it mildly.

Maggie also has the 2.6l housing now, they went to a jack shaft setup for the Hemi's though. I think in that case
I'd just go for the bigger Whipple.





Quote:
Originally Posted by ChallyTatum View Post
Putting my bias of the maggie aside, of the three PD super chargers vendors (Edel, Whipple, Mag)...I hear you @us1champ the maggie kit ranks as a Napa parts bin closeout...it really does suck. The maggie kit I bought from Arrington back in May 2017 "was" complete and shipped from Magnuson directly. HOWEVER, the problem with the kit was complete for a 2009-2010 model...I had a 2015. The snout was too short, the fuse tap was the wrong type, there was no short IAT sensor (you were supposed to used the one that came with the car but the newer year challengers came stock with the long one) and the pulley was for a 6lb kit not 8lb. Once I got all the correct parts (Arrington did get everything addressed promptly even though they were in the midst of a change in ownership) assembly was a breeze. Did everything myself except for mounting the blower on the block (too heavy for one guy with no cherry picker) and did not have to take the front clip off. The injector size also depended on whether you bought the 6 or 8 lb kit. Oh and by the way the belt size was wack...I think they had the belt sizes reversed or something along those lines. Other than this fecal show (apparently this still happens to the +2015 guys that buy the self install kits) the maggie has performed flawlessly (did get belt squeal but the thump racing tensioner and correct belt size fixed that).

On thing to note is the Edel and Mag kits use similar Eaton blower design but the new Edel kits run a larger blower 2.65L as opposed to the 2.3L and have a larger intercooler...again bigger blower.

So taking all this into consideration I would rank the PD super charger pecking order in terms of performance and fit/finish for the DIYer as:

Whipple 2.9L (may require hood notch)
Edelbrock 2.65L (does not require hood notch)
Magnuson 2.3L (does not require hood notch)

That said the Maggie has done well by me and I have come to forgive the short comings of the kit (the shorter snout just pissed me off...I mean how do you miss that?!). I would have gone with the whipple but it was price (was ~$1.5k more for the whipple and it used a boost-a-pump instead of a larger fuel pump that API offered) and quietness (my rear diff whined enough) of the SC unit that made me buy the maggie. Also at the time of purchase the 2.65 Eaton did not exist yet and Edelbrock only offered a 6lb kit, hence no need for different injectors. That and there were a lot more folks running the maggie kits with no issues. Meanwhile the whipple guys were complaining of the light switch effect throttle. Nowadays I would say this is a moot point as the tunes and tuners have gotten better. Heck I think all PD super chargers were running a little orifice that would delay boost to prevent instant boost and boost during PT...that is no longer needed as the tune can address this...just ask the guys on the HP tuner site.

As for the maggie 8lb kit I bought, I paid $7200 out the door (no tax/shipping). It came with:

Unlocked PCM
Trinity Tuner -- (I wish they used HP tuners instead but the trinity makes logging a breeze)
Tuning support -- (typically turn around was ~2days)
Magnuson PD kit with 60# injectors -- (API supplied the short IAT sensor and their upgraded SC idlers)
Crank pin kit -- (also bought a short 90 deg pneumatic drill shortest from HF)
API's fuel pump upgrade -- (bought the ring lock tool instead of using a brass punch and hammer)

This was everything that I needed to get the system installed and tuned. Install took only a total of 2 days but it took an extra month to get the right pulley, snout and tune dialed in.

Just another data point for you folks thinking of going forced induction.
Toxic11 is offline  
post #39 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-06-2018, 08:32 PM
Senior Member
 
John Matthews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
Posts: 1,977
Thanks: 285
Thanked 344 Times in 260 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I believe both Magnuson and Edlebrock offer the 2.3 for the 6.4 and the 2.6 for the 5.7. The install instructions that came with my Magnuson kit in 2016 (for a 2012) dated back to 2011 and never had any of the numerous errors corrected.

2012 SRT automatic, PB 12.0490 with DR, then 11.56 with 5.5psi magnuson Sold
2017 hellcat A8 stock, 10.86 with DR's
John Matthews is offline  
post #40 of 68 (permalink) Old 11-06-2018, 09:20 PM
Senior Member
 
ChallyTatum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: The state where 4 out of 7 former Governors went to jail
Posts: 4,484
Thanks: 447
Thanked 1,046 Times in 871 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic11 View Post
I don't know how they (whom ever wrote the Maggie install doc) figured you can drill the crank with the rad and
everything in the way. I bought a brand new Ryobi 90 degree drill thinking it would work and then when I tried to
get up in there I was like NOPE.
I went to every hardware store/tool rental within a 15 mile radius looking for an electric 90 degree drill that would fit between the main pulley and radiator. All were too big even with the drill bit shank ground down. Finally saw the pneumatic drill at harbor freight which had plenty of room and was cheap. Unfortunately my air compressor had a hard time keeping up but eventually the deed was done. I enjoyed the wrenching but the waiting for parts to ship/arrive was the gut punch. Wyatt at API was on it despite the change in ownership and shop prepping to close down.

There was another member here (Ironthorn) who had some issues with his +2015 kit. Not as bad as me but I think he was missing spacers for the idlers, the fuse tap was incorrect and I think he had to get the buy the IAT...or something like that. He was fortunate enough to get HC injectors with his unit.

I keep hearing the maggie kits for the +2015 5.7 are completely different but if you look at the 2009-2010 instructions all the components are similar if not identical...at least for the 5.7L engines. I was also told the 2.65L blower was too big for the 5.7L but I saw kits for them.
ChallyTatum is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Dodge Challenger Forum: Challenger & SRT8 Forums > General, Performance, and Technical > Performance Modifications > Forced Induction

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Dodge Challenger Forum: Challenger & SRT8 Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome