Dodge to Redesign Charger and Challenger in 2020, Chrysler 300 Likely Axed - Page 14 - Dodge Challenger Forum: Challenger & SRT8 Forums
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post #131 of 150 (permalink) Old 03-02-2019, 04:38 PM
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For a car manufacturer to be more successful, they'd almost have to be global. Maybe that's why Ford made the Mustang more European in looks because they would be catering to the European market. Not too mention that Baby Boomers and Millennial's have different taste( in general, but there are exceptions to every rule). That's why the Challenger is Great to us because that's what we grew up on. Chevrolet did the same thing for the C7 Corvette when they redid it in 2014.

In 2017, GM sold more cars in China than they did here. That's just to make my point about a global market.If you can't adapt, then you die. That's just how it works in business.

I think that Dodge has been smart in doing what they have for the Challengers. Even in times where fuel economy is important, they didn't hold back on the horsepower. With all of the emphasis on mileage and electric cars and such, people still want something that is visceral and fun! Hence, the Hellcat, Redeye, Demon's and the over the top cars that they are just bring back memories for some and draw new enthusiast's into FCA's "Brotherhood of Muscle" but the next generation of Challenger/Musclecar is going to be important for Dodge's future. It was such a good idea that Ford and Chevrolet followed suit by creating the GT350, GT500 and Chevrolet with the ZL1 (the Z06 and ZR1 are in another league, so I didn't include them).

I can't wait to see where it goes because Dodge is not afraid to not only step outside of the box, they'll build their own box. It's going to be exciting for car peeps!
All very true. The question is where do they go from here? As we purchasers get older we will be buying less and less of these. The younger generation, for the most part, don't understand the desire for a V8 with high horsepower and most also lack $40,000+ to purchase. The government I leaning on manufactures to go away from V8s with higher to be CAFE standards and leaning on them to go electric. The question then becomes where does Dodge go next? A Twin Turbo Challenger? What will the next gen car look like? Retro.. some retro... a mix between modern with traces of classic like Ford did with the Mustang? One has to remember the economy can tank at any time and gas prices CAN return to $4-5.00 a gallon in a heartbeat. If that happens how many $40,000 plus 20 MPG cars can Dodge sell?

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post #132 of 150 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 04:11 PM
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This was in printed form, so no weblink. I recall reading a story on Automobile Magazine many years ago that Mitsubishi, which seems like had no interest in making cars as all they let their products get old with no replacement. It was like the company did not want to invest (millions) in development. The story was, Mitsubishi was saving it's cash to make a run at Honda. It was a high stake gamble.

That didn't work, and Mitsubishi suffered, and that let to Nissan-Renault taking over Mitsubishi.

Everyone got a partner now, accept Honda. I think Honda will be taken over by someone, hostel, friendly, or not.

Recall when Chrysler built everything on the K-car platform. That made Chrysler cash rich. So good, that Benz took over and bleed the cash dry. And nearly to death.

Recall the past CEO of FCA was looking for a merger. He perhaps went about it the "wrong way" by telling the world. Perhaps it should be kept on the down low.

Honda is being "smart" by not really spending much on performance (yes, I know the NSX, CTR, etc). Honda need real trucks and real SUVs.

FCA is being "smart" by not investing on sedan, passenger cars, etc (because gas is cheap). Honda is the best at that with the Accord and Civic. Jeep and Ram is the best at what they do.

They both need each other IMO.

Honda is the last (major) independent company left. FCA and Honda need to talk.

Cars like the Challenger/Charger will live on as specialty cars with no need to appeal to the masses (or special interest).

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post #133 of 150 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 04:49 AM
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This was in printed form, so no weblink. I recall reading a story on Automobile Magazine many years ago that Mitsubishi, which seems like had no interest in making cars as all they let their products get old with no replacement. It was like the company did not want to invest (millions) in development. The story was, Mitsubishi was saving it's cash to make a run at Honda. It was a high stake gamble.

That didn't work, and Mitsubishi suffered, and that let to Nissan-Renault taking over Mitsubishi.

Everyone got a partner now, accept Honda. I think Honda will be taken over by someone, hostel, friendly, or not.

Recall when Chrysler built everything on the K-car platform. That made Chrysler cash rich. So good, that Benz took over and bleed the cash dry. And nearly to death.

Recall the past CEO of FCA was looking for a merger. He perhaps went about it the "wrong way" by telling the world. Perhaps it should be kept on the down low.

Honda is being "smart" by not really spending much on performance (yes, I know the NSX, CTR, etc). Honda need real trucks and real SUVs.

FCA is being "smart" by not investing on sedan, passenger cars, etc (because gas is cheap). Honda is the best at that with the Accord and Civic. Jeep and Ram is the best at what they do.

They both need each other IMO.

Honda is the last (major) independent company left. FCA and Honda need to talk.

Cars like the Challenger/Charger will live on as specialty cars with no need to appeal to the masses (or special interest).

Honda has always been a different kind of global automaker. They are less effected by stockholders and more of a slow go forward and keep with a plan for the long term. That is why it took them so long to offer a V6, an SUV, a truck.... They are very slow to go into different categories. AND if you look at their sales/profits they are probably one of the less up and down global manufactures of all of them. They keep a core product lineup and do it VERY well. They are also into many other categories not just vehicles. I see no way in the world that they would be interested in merging with anyone... why.. they are highly successful and would probably tell you they are happy with their current SUV lineup. Full sized trucks are a North American thing. Get out of North America and those won't sell. Toyota and Nissan have invested billions in full sized trucks and they have less than 10% of the North American market share in trucks. I am sure Honda sees that and thinks it is way too expensive to get into that considering outside of the US full sized trucks don't sell.

Many times 'experts' have talked about Honda taking over the likes of Chrysler during the 2008 crash and again when Sergio was saying he was looking for a partner. I just don't see Honda doing that at all. First off the real only value with FCA is RAM and Jeep. Everything else is low volume/low profits. Honda isn't going to look at the Charger/Challenger and want to take over FCA for that low volume high cost line considering sedans and coupe market is very small and shrinking. Not to mention CAFE standards are squeezing out V8s. Lets not forget the Japanese culture/language doesn't really line up with the fast paced and stockholder driven market that FCA deals with. I just don't see that merger working well. The Diamler one certainly failed.

FCA being 'smart' about not investing in cars. Well... the 200 and the Dart failed in the market so badly that they stopped building them. They were in a serious cash crunch so they simply decided to not invest billions more and to simply exit from the car business is all really.

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post #134 of 150 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 03:22 PM
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Honda is the last (major) independent company left. FCA and Honda need to talk.
It won't happen in a million years.

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Originally Posted by MoparOhio View Post
FCA being 'smart' about not investing in cars. Well... the 200 and the Dart failed in the market so badly that they stopped building them. They were in a serious cash crunch so they simply decided to not invest billions more and to simply exit from the car business is all really.
While sedan and coupe sales have declined, it's still a viable market. The issue is that American manufacturers didn't make them worthy of competing.


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post #135 of 150 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 07:42 PM
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I own a Red Eye and a Honda Accord. The Honda has over 320000 miles on it and runs like a top with basic maintenance. The interior is falling apart but the powertrain is all original except for spark plugs and the usual consumables. The factory stereo is better than the Alpine in my new car. Honda does alot of things right and making a great car with incremetal improvements is the way to go. Dodge has done that with the LX platform for the Challenger. Dodge should do a natural gas version of the Hellcat engine. Honda had a GX Accord that came with a residential fill station that hooked into your natural gas supply from your utility. It would improve fuel economy and be innovative for a performance car.

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post #136 of 150 (permalink) Old 03-15-2019, 04:14 PM
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The 200 and the Dart failed not just because they were sedans, but because of poor design choices and marketing. Calling it the Dart doomed the car from the beginning. It gave it a lot to live up to, and it just fell short and left a bad taste in Mopar people's mouths. The 200 was fine, and sold fine, up until the 2015 redesign when they took away the headroom and gave it an awkward turn-dial shifter. The 9 speed trans was quirky and annoying. They have since improved them with software updates but the damage to the car's reputation is done.

Had Chrysler been smarter with their cars, and put the effort in to improve them, they could have done so much better. Conquering market share isn't going to happen in 2 model years. They gave up too easily. Now they'll have to start from scratch again when the truck/SUV fad finally dies off, and people migrate back to cars. Then they'll be slow to market and behind everyone else once again.


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post #137 of 150 (permalink) Old 03-15-2019, 07:37 PM
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The 200 was a stinking pile of shit. Worse car Dodge has produced since the caliber. One driven several of them as rentals, and even brand new ones have all sorts of rattles and bad handling. It has no redeaming value whatsoever.

The Dart has been fine, with no issues, for us. My wife has a 14 model, and is solid. I think they're biggest problem is the compact class ruled by cheap Hondas and Toyotas. No US automaker has been able to find the magic formula to compete consistently with them in the past 30 years.
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post #138 of 150 (permalink) Old 03-15-2019, 08:02 PM
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The 200 was a stinking pile of shit. Worse car Dodge has produced since the caliber. One driven several of them as rentals, and even brand new ones have all sorts of rattles and bad handling. It has no redeaming value whatsoever.

The Dart has been fine, with no issues, for us. My wife has a 14 model, and is solid. I think they're biggest problem is the compact class ruled by cheap Hondas and Toyotas. No US automaker has been able to find the magic formula to compete consistently with them in the past 30 years.
Really? I just traded in my 2015 Chrysler 200 S for the 2019 Scat Pack, and I actually really loved it. It was fully loaded and was a blast to drive. The 3.6L v6 pentastar was fantastic and pretty zippy! The 9 speed transmission was a bit "meh", but I actually enjoyed it otherwise. We drove it from Tulsa, Oklahoma to Bozeman, Montana and averaged around 38mpg the entire way. The AWD was also fantastic in some pretty treacherous conditions (including around a foot of snow).

Honestly, I don't have many bad things to say about my ~4 years of ownership!

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post #139 of 150 (permalink) Old 03-16-2019, 04:06 AM
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Really? I just traded in my 2015 Chrysler 200 S for the 2019 Scat Pack, and I actually really loved it. It was fully loaded and was a blast to drive. The 3.6L v6 pentastar was fantastic and pretty zippy! The 9 speed transmission was a bit "meh", but I actually enjoyed it otherwise. We drove it from Tulsa, Oklahoma to Bozeman, Montana and averaged around 38mpg the entire way. The AWD was also fantastic in some pretty treacherous conditions (including around a foot of snow).



Honestly, I don't have many bad things to say about my ~4 years of ownership!
I agree with you on the 200 S wife has one and it's been an awesome car. Never had an issue.

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post #140 of 150 (permalink) Old 03-21-2019, 08:13 PM
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Rented a bunch of 200s and loved all of them. In base trim, the audio / screen / dash was a bit cheap looking, but that was easily fixed by checking the right boxes if you owned one. Handled great, quiet, performed pretty well - the 9 speed auto was almost as good as the current 9 speed in my E Class.

I felt like FCA gave up on the 200 way too soon. Nobody is making a killing on sedans, but that was a good looking, competitive entry and not everyone wants Accord/Camry.


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