FCA Boss Thinks Diesel is Dead - Page 3 - Dodge Challenger Forum: Challenger & SRT8 Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-26-2018, 05:27 AM
Super Moderator
 
Hal H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Lowell NC
Posts: 14,335
Thanks: 22
Thanked 3,343 Times in 2,558 Posts
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.J.Sakuma View Post
Thanks, that's serious stuff (and it's not about just being green.) I guess that make sense, when you see "dark" exhaust, there is no way it can be clean as regular gas. There is a term for that, that I can't think of. Sort of like common sense.

I did want a Golf TDI, and actually test drove a 2010 Jetta TDI (new). I didn't buy it but I did want it as a daily driver. That is really too bad it can't be clean.

Now it makes sense. Sometimes we wonder why can manufactures don't make diesel engines (for MPG). It's because they know it "can't be done" cleanly. And probably knew VW was cheating.
Some of the VW models could be retrofitted and have new software flashes. One owner I know mentioned his car gets better mpg now after the retrofit and software flashes.

But true, I saw some truly smoke VWs in recent years that reminded me of the 70s Mercedes diesels that could throw a cloud of black smoke under heavy acceleration back in the day...

2016 392 Hemi Scat Pack Shaker 23Y pkg (M6) ordered 8/28/15, born 10/23/15, home 11/20/15
Torred / Black/ Ruby Red leather
2009 R/T 27J pkg (M6) ordered 7/17/08, born 10/23/08, home 11/13/08
Hemi Orange / Dark Slate/Light Slate Gray leather
-Sold 9/1/15
Hal H is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-27-2018, 02:11 PM
Senior Member
 
bwayneross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: San Diego
Posts: 103
Thanks: 9
Thanked 17 Times in 14 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
VW bought back my 2014 45 mpg Diesel Passat for full value 3 years later. I used that money to buy my Challenger. I don't know if NOX is oderless but there was absolutely no exhaust smell coming out of that car. As far as my nose was concerned, "clean diesel" is right.

2017 R/T, 6 spd manual, STP, Convenience pkg, Color: Maximum Steel
bwayneross is offline  
post #23 of 27 (permalink) Old 06-13-2018, 12:15 PM
Senior Member
 
chizzle1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,051
Thanks: 259
Thanked 114 Times in 90 Posts
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
The black smoke you see from older or modified diesel engines is not the "bad" stuff that pollution testers measure. So black smoke doesn't necessarily mean bad emissions.
We are very pleased with our eco diesel, gets 22city, 27 highway, 17 pulling our trailer. It has all the creature comforts, and has plenty of power.
Not sure about the cow piss comment, the blue def that I put in ours looks and smells like water. The exhaust doesn't really smell like anything...and there is a regeneration feature that also comes into play to clean the particulate filter. 1 8 gallon tank of def lasts about 8000-10000 miles, depending on driving conditions.
The eco diesel made sense for us as we needed a large family vehicle, able to tow our trailer, that still had decent mileage.
I hope they don't get rid of the small diesel market for trucks, the Hemi Durango we had sucked the fuel (14c/18h). I wouldn't own a Hemi powered Ram for that reason.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2017 RAM 1500 Laramie 4x4 Eco Diesel GDE tune, fully loaded, hers.
2010 R/T 6M 500HP Daily driver
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- 6.1 based [email protected]:1,Howards Cam,ported heads/intake,Fore Hat,52# Deatschwerks injectors,AFR shaker,Derale oil cooler,Barton STS,shorty headers,3" solo performance duals,BBK 85,HP tuned,Jet 180*,BT Catch Can,SLP locks,BT dash kit,MP hood struts,sequential tails, 20x10 Hellcat chromes wrapped in 305 Pirellis,rear cam,park sense.
09 Suzuki GSF1250 Bandit 1255 I-4 - Yoshi exhaust, WP seat
chizzle1 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #24 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-03-2018, 02:53 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 30
Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by nards444 View Post
diesel only really makes sense in the states for large trucks that need the power and torque. In their current concept for cars and 1/2 ton trucks(ecodiesel and now ford has one) when you crunch and run the numbers it really doesn't do much for you. ... As for car when you put them against comparable cars in size that have gas engines there really is no real advantage, plenty of smaller cars getting in the 30-40mpg range that run on gas that again are cheaper to buy and cheaper to run and maintain.

I think so many people want diesel to work just because it diesel, its different, smells, blows smoke, loud etc, kind of like looking at a carnival ride. Not saying diesel is bad Ive had 3 of them in trucks. I just think gas engines all around are more logical choice for most needs.

Not quite so. I had an old '88 Jetta that averaged over 40MPG combined, and if I drove it like granny it could almost touch 55 MPG on the highway. The only time you got any black smoke out of it was when it was floored and then it was more of a haze than "rollin coal" that most people associate with diesels today. My bother had an old late 70s 300TD Benz that about 30 MPG combined and over 40 on the highway. Also I've got an '07 Chevy 2500HD with a Duramax (7200lbs) that averages 18MPG (it averaged 22MPG on a trip from MD to AL last month) and is rated at pulling over 12K LBS.


While its true that you pay more for a diesel up front, you get (well use to get) a lot more vehicle for your $$ than a comparable gas vehicle. And, properly maintained, you can expect 400K miles or better out of a diesel as they are built much stronger that a gas vehicle and are designed to be run hard and long. Yes you will pay more in maintenance costs, but the benefits far outweigh the costs. Lastly, on the back end, when it comes time to sell or trade a diesel you recoup your initial higher price because of a diesel's higher resale value.



Yes I like diesels and will agree that they are not for everybody, but for those of us who appreciate them, they work just fine.

Last edited by Demented; 07-03-2018 at 02:56 PM.
Demented is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Demented For This Useful Post:
chizzle1 (07-06-2018)
post #25 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 02:11 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,924
Thanks: 60
Thanked 269 Times in 224 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demented View Post
Not quite so. I had an old '88 Jetta that averaged over 40MPG combined, and if I drove it like granny it could almost touch 55 MPG on the highway. The only time you got any black smoke out of it was when it was floored and then it was more of a haze than "rollin coal" that most people associate with diesels today. My bother had an old late 70s 300TD Benz that about 30 MPG combined and over 40 on the highway. Also I've got an '07 Chevy 2500HD with a Duramax (7200lbs) that averages 18MPG (it averaged 22MPG on a trip from MD to AL last month) and is rated at pulling over 12K LBS.


While its true that you pay more for a diesel up front, you get (well use to get) a lot more vehicle for your $$ than a comparable gas vehicle. And, properly maintained, you can expect 400K miles or better out of a diesel as they are built much stronger that a gas vehicle and are designed to be run hard and long. Yes you will pay more in maintenance costs, but the benefits far outweigh the costs. Lastly, on the back end, when it comes time to sell or trade a diesel you recoup your initial higher price because of a diesel's higher resale value.



Yes I like diesels and will agree that they are not for everybody, but for those of us who appreciate them, they work just fine.
possibly but I think you missed my point. My point was theres comparable gas engines doing the same thing for less money up front and less money at the pump. The jetta, chevy cruze type market there are many brands in that size of car getting 40+mpg all day. Yeah resale on a truck is there small car ehhh IDK, you might have a point.


End of the day crunch the numbers it just doesn't work unless you haul heavy or are putting an ungodly amount of miles on it a year. The average 15k a year driver that doesn't haul will see no real advantage and will cost more money to do it.
nards444 is offline  
post #26 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 02:19 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,924
Thanks: 60
Thanked 269 Times in 224 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by chizzle1 View Post
The black smoke you see from older or modified diesel engines is not the "bad" stuff that pollution testers measure. So black smoke doesn't necessarily mean bad emissions.
We are very pleased with our eco diesel, gets 22city, 27 highway, 17 pulling our trailer. It has all the creature comforts, and has plenty of power.
Not sure about the cow piss comment, the blue def that I put in ours looks and smells like water. The exhaust doesn't really smell like anything...and there is a regeneration feature that also comes into play to clean the particulate filter. 1 8 gallon tank of def lasts about 8000-10000 miles, depending on driving conditions.
The eco diesel made sense for us as we needed a large family vehicle, able to tow our trailer, that still had decent mileage.
I hope they don't get rid of the small diesel market for trucks, the Hemi Durango we had sucked the fuel (14c/18h). I wouldn't own a Hemi powered Ram for that reason.


I think a diesel in the half ton market is a great idea if they could make it work, currently the options are so so at best, unless you look at titans engine option but then again that's Nissan. Problem with the ecodiesel is it cost 3-4k more up front and in many places diesel is 10-20% more at the pump. My F150 does 20HWY and 17 all the time because of my cost savings on gas I'm getting more like 19-23mpg vs an ecodiesel.


When you start crunching numbers on it that ecodiesel is getting maybe 5mpg better over a years time that might equate out to $500 a year in savings. Best case scenario with the ecodiesel the average driver is breaking even in 6-8 years, and that's not factoring the added cost of DEF and costlier regular maint.


But the real nail in the coffin for the ecodiesel is that fact that its paylod and towing capacity is lower than even the hemi power pack and also much less than Ford ecoboost and chevys trailering package.


So not saying its a bad truck, but for me I would be buying something that has less hauling performance than other base model half tons and its quite conceivable Ill never break even on the added cost of the diesel motor. Ive owned three power strokes so I have nothing against diesel, but at least in a truck I shutter when people say they save money on a diesel.

Last edited by nards444; 07-10-2018 at 07:10 AM.
nards444 is offline  
post #27 of 27 (permalink) Old 07-10-2018, 09:11 AM
Senior Member
 
chizzle1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,051
Thanks: 259
Thanked 114 Times in 90 Posts
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Gallons of fuel for 500 city miles
33 gal mid grade=$85
21 gal diesel = $ 56
current fuel prices
2.69 diesel
2.59 mid grade (91)

In my situation the ED works great. In 500 miles of city driving (about 2 weeks) it costs almost $30 less in fuel than my buddy's 2016 Hemi (both 4x4).
He averages 15 around town and our ED averages 22-23.
Highway his Hemi gets 18-19 and the ED gets 25-27. Put a trailer behind both trucks and the fuel consumption difference is even more apparent.
The ED isn't fast by any stretch, but it's enough for around town.
And the maint costs are not much more, oil changes are about $110 for the diesel vs $80 for the hemi. So that's $30 more every 8000-10000 miles, meanwhile your saving $60 every thousand miles driven.
We are paying nothing for maint now as the first 4 services are covered by the dealer and Ram Care. So our ED will have 40k miles on the odometer before we spend any funds on maint.

If you drive 15000 miles per year that equates to about $900 less in fuel, minus $40 for DEF (9-11 gallons per 8-10k miles).

Also the ED we found had some awesome year end rebates going, we purchased a new 17 ED Laramie for less than the comparable Laramie gassers were selling for.

Last edited by chizzle1; 07-10-2018 at 09:15 AM.
chizzle1 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Dodge Challenger Forum: Challenger & SRT8 Forums > Dodge Challenger News & Polls > Dodge Challenger News

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Dodge Challenger Forum: Challenger & SRT8 Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What Should I Get Out of This? Nuke Off-Topic Discussion 39 10-05-2017 12:42 AM
Why FCA is Seeking a Merger Cuda340 Off-Topic Discussion 5 05-09-2017 10:46 AM
WAKE UP Dodge and give us our TA or an SRT AAR!!! hemisrt General Challenger Discussion 39 09-08-2015 06:38 PM
2014 brand new challenger - Dead Battery Wikanne Challenger Issues & Problems 16 06-11-2014 02:19 PM
Would you buy it if...... gcdsn76 General Challenger Discussion 73 06-21-2013 08:18 AM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome