Hypothetical Value Question - Page 2 - Dodge Challenger Forum: Challenger & SRT8 Forums
SRT Hellcat 6.2L Supercharged (2015 - ) Would you like the BLACK KEY or the RED KEY?

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post #11 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-07-2019, 11:58 AM Thread Starter
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Rockster,

Your observations and history are much appreciated. I agree the stock market is the best long term investment we have, and index funds made sense for several reasons. My point is that I could take the 30K, buy the market, and see a very sudden 50% loss. This having happened a couple of times in my lifetime. But you are 100% correct for the long term. All of your advice struck me as rock solid, but what else would we expect from Rockstar *grin*.

Thanks especially for the run down on the cars you've owned - exactly what I was hoping for. Wishful thinking...ah, yes... So unless phenomenally lucky like last year's Demon buyers who have seen a 50-60% increase in the value of their cars even an optioned Hellcat Redeye is unlikely to go up, much less retain, initial value. I pulled 26% depreciation out of my *** thinking it would be less depreciation than a lesser model, and it turned out to be the same dollar loss over that time period. What you're, and others, are saying is plan on 50% depreciation. Which makes the more expensive car a bigger loss, of course.

I also appreciate the basic car enthusiast advice given so far. In essence, if you can afford it and sleep at night buy what you want. And buying what I want is what my research, and your experiences that you guys care to relate, is the critical decision.

YouTube Video break time! (If you have time). I've been scouring the internet for Challenger videos, concentrating on 2019 Scat Packs and Hellcats. Look what I found today! I'm thinking this must be very new. If you can stand to watch two young "influencers" that my 62 year old eyeballs can only just tolerate (impending old fogey status acknowledged) actually crash a Go Mango Hellcat Redeye during their "review", check it out. If no time, start at 12:30 into the video. If a little time start at 9:00 when they first hit it and don't crash. If you're about my son's age you'll probably like the whole video. They are enthusiasts so I'm not knocking them too much. BUT, to Cuda340 and other posters who suggested my wife and I test drive a 2019 Scat Pack Wide Body and that the 485 HP would be more than enough fun on the street? Ummmm, that might be the best advice I've ever been given. But, dang, that Hellcat Red Eye is something else in addition to a potential death trap!


Might have to cut and past that link.

Thanks again for posting. I'm all ears.

Best,

Finface
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post #12 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-07-2019, 01:53 PM
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Rockster,

Your observations and history are much appreciated. I agree the stock market is the best long term investment we have, and index funds made sense for several reasons. My point is that I could take the 30K, buy the market, and see a very sudden 50% loss. This having happened a couple of times in my lifetime. But you are 100% correct for the long term. All of your advice struck me as rock solid, but what else would we expect from Rockstar *grin*.

Thanks especially for the run down on the cars you've owned - exactly what I was hoping for. Wishful thinking...ah, yes... So unless phenomenally lucky like last year's Demon buyers who have seen a 50-60% increase in the value of their cars even an optioned Hellcat Redeye is unlikely to go up, much less retain, initial value. I pulled 26% depreciation out of my *** thinking it would be less depreciation than a lesser model, and it turned out to be the same dollar loss over that time period. What you're, and others, are saying is plan on 50% depreciation. Which makes the more expensive car a bigger loss, of course.

I also appreciate the basic car enthusiast advice given so far. In essence, if you can afford it and sleep at night buy what you want. And buying what I want is what my research, and your experiences that you guys care to relate, is the critical decision.

YouTube Video break time! (If you have time). I've been scouring the internet for Challenger videos, concentrating on 2019 Scat Packs and Hellcats. Look what I found today! I'm thinking this must be very new. If you can stand to watch two young "influencers" that my 62 year old eyeballs can only just tolerate (impending old fogey status acknowledged) actually crash a Go Mango Hellcat Redeye during their "review", check it out. If no time, start at 12:30 into the video. If a little time start at 9:00 when they first hit it and don't crash. If you're about my son's age you'll probably like the whole video. They are enthusiasts so I'm not knocking them too much. BUT, to Cuda340 and other posters who suggested my wife and I test drive a 2019 Scat Pack Wide Body and that the 485 HP would be more than enough fun on the street? Ummmm, that might be the best advice I've ever been given. But, dang, that Hellcat Red Eye is something else in addition to a potential death trap!

S3 Gets a 797 HP Hellcat Redeye... And Wrecks It.. - YouTube

Might have to cut and past that link.

Thanks again for posting. I'm all ears.

Best,

Finface
Yes, you could put $30K in the market -- a good index fund that is diversified -- and see the market "tank" and the money drop maybe 50%. The 2008 "crash" had me down quite a bit. The S+P 500 went from a 1282 on 8/29/2008 to a low of 683 on 3/6/2009.

But I didn't sell. But also for a while I didn't bother to check my mutual fund balances. But I kept adding money to my accounts, dollar cost averaging.

My time horizon was quite far out and in spite of the severity of the drop I believed it to be a rather short lived drop which I thought would pass by the time I needed the money. By 3/18/2011 the S&P 500 was nearly -- just a few dollars shy -- of where it was back on 8/29/2008. Nearly 3 years is not necessarily what people would call a short time but looking back it did go by rather quickly. And all the time I kept on investing some percentage of my paycheck every month. There were dividends too that were reinvested.

From there the S&P 500 went on to gain even more. From its low of 683 to a recent (2/1/2019) high of 2706 the market is up around 290%.

It remains to be seen how Demon prices will do in the future. It is too early I think -- except for those few who got in at maybe MSRP or not too much above and then flipped the car or cars for more than they paid after just a short time -- to call the Demon a good investment.

Really though for 99% of the cars (and this might include the Demon) they are not investments, but a depreciating asset. Often cars that do appreciate do so only after the original owner -- or the 1st several owners -- have sold the car on. There is an expense of keeping a car pristine for 10, 20, 30 years with the hope its increase in value will justify the time and expense. If (big if) the car appreciates in value it is still a hard way to make money.

The advice to consider instead of a HC or RE a new Scat Pack is good advice.

My Scat Pack was a nice car. I was probably (probably?...) "wrong" in trading it in after just 2 months but at the time I had convinced myself to keep it to have 3 cars: Scat Pack, JCW, and then a Hellcat; was not for me. That was then. Now I can tell you I wish I had kept the Scat Pack.

The 392 engine is a nice piece of work. Not Hellcat engine nice but well suited for its power output and intended use.

And since depreciation is the biggest expense of owning a car a depreciation curve that starts at $40K vs. one that starts at around $65K (or way more in the case of a RE) sees one losing less to depreciation. 'course, even if I kept the Scat Pack I would have still bought the HC so I would have had the depreciation of the HC's value too.

The Scat Pack is more an every day car than the Hellcat. Sure the HC can be driven every day -- I toy with the idea of selling my JCW and buying a 2nd Hellcat so I can drive one every day -- but really that ain't going to happen. The HC (and in this regard so too the Scat Pack as the two cars are the same size as near as I can tell) is a bit of a problem when it comes to navigating tight parking lots, parking. This is where the JCW comes in very handy and I try to use it for all errands that require I visit and park in a parking lot.

I don't recall gas mileage with my Scat Pack, but with my HC gas mileage sucks -- I get barely 15mpg (by way of comparison the JCW gets 30mpg+ being driven the same way as the HC) and while keeping the HC fuel tank full is not a hardship having to fill up the gas tank 2 maybe 3 times a week (as my only car the HC would see over 300 miles per week) really sucks. Might add here in CA I'm paying $3.499/gallon for Shell V-Power and crude prices appear headed up so gas prices will soon follow. Not too long ago I was paying closer to $4.00/gallon and $4.00/gallon gasoline is probably closer than one might believe. Sigh.


(I refuse to use the black key with the Hellcat.)


It is unfortunate the RE was wrecked. I watched the video a while back when someone first posted it but I don't know what exactly happened. (I suspect the driver developed a bad case of driving with his head up his ass.) Really a number of lesser cars are wrecked in many cases by people doing things in/with a car they had no business doing.

I think the RE (or the Hellcat) and similar cars just act to magnify what kind of driver one is. If one is stupid in a lesser car he's very much likely to behave the same way in a RE/HC. The difference is the more powerful cars magnify the consequences of being stupid.

The fact the HC came with 707hp and 650 ft lbs of torque didn't scare me. Just the opposite. It was part of the attraction. I have enough confidence in myself to know I'm not going to do something stupid in the HC. (My mantra when I first get in my HC (or my JCW for that matter) is "Don't be stupid.")

Thus my concern is not with my driving, but with the driving of every other driver. My time on the road is pretty much spent avoiding all the other drivers of other vehicles when they do something stupid.
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post #13 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-07-2019, 06:07 PM
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I think its kind of simple the higher the MSRP on just about any car the more you will lose in the years to come. The difference between the scat pack widebody and the hellcat redeye more hp and $30,000.Wait till you go to trade it in KBB price.
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post #14 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-07-2019, 06:39 PM Thread Starter
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Rockster,

My neighbor with the Hellcat he traded his Scat Pack in for has also said he sometimes misses the Scat Pack.

I saw a couple of years ago that about 4 years ago US vehicle fatalities spiked and have stayed higher than they were 4 years ago. It's tough identifying the possible variables, then teasing out which might be responsible for the reversal in safety, but my pet theory is distracted driving because of cellular phones. I've seen people trying to text with both hands on top of the wheel of the 3/4 ton pickups - going 10 mph slower than the speed limit and forcing drivers to go around them.

Like manning up an airplane, or a tractor, climbing behind the wheel of these high performance cars should be an exercise in concentration, especially the Hellcats. I fly for a living and I bought a compact utility tractor with Front End Loader which I use on hills to mow and move dirt and gravel with. My tractor has my full attention EVERY time I climb up and work it. It will be that way with my Challenger too. I think I'd drive it sensibly like you feel you do.

Here's a thought. If the Red Eye likely won't hold equivalent dollar amount loss to the Scat Pack, as I wishfully postulated, then would there be some compromise between economic sense and driving fun in deciding on the 2019's 717 HP Hellcat Wide Body? Still a considerable chunk of change more than the Scat Pack, but perhaps a middle ground purchase? Lol! Hard to give up thoughts of a Hellcat! I think I want the full leather seats, which aren't available in the Scat Pack.

The odds are that with wanting my wife to drive and enjoy the car too I'll get a 2019 Scat Pack Wide Body. The tuned suspension and overall balance between handling and power, from all accounts and reviews, predicts a happier ownership experience for us. Plus it has the fun stuff - the line lock and launch control. And, she wants a new back deck!

Thanks for the additional information.

Best,

Finface
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post #15 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-07-2019, 06:42 PM Thread Starter
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hardrock,

Distilling decisions down to a couple of sentences has been a lifelong challenge for me. My wife is with you and cuts to the chase.

Thanks for the reply!

Best,

Finface
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post #16 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-07-2019, 07:26 PM
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I know it's a pile of money that might be lost but.....
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post #17 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-07-2019, 07:38 PM
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If your not going to drive it to it's potential then get the six banger.

It's still 305 hp and way less money and better milage and who gives a shit if it gets banged up!

At some point you have to say, what would I enjoy?

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post #18 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-07-2019, 10:18 PM
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If your not going to drive it to it's potential then get the six banger.

It's still 305 hp and way less money and better milage and who gives a shit if it gets banged up!

At some point you have to say, what would I enjoy?
I guess what causes me to make a statement like that is that I watched my Dad who could undoubtedly afford whatever vehicle He wanted agonize for years over nickels and dimes at the end of his life over a vehicle which He deserved and earned through his hard work and diligence and finally bought and then died and didn't get to enjoy.

The SX's and GT's are ass kicking beautiful cars and I absolutely meant no disrespect to anyone that owns one. I would have killed for that level of performance in my younger years.

But, now that I do have a little expendable income (thanks Dad for kicking my ass,instilling a sense of fiscal responsibility, and also leaving me a little doh ray mi)I feel that it's time to enjoy life's labor.

I have always owned ocean fishing boats that are a HUGE money pit but the family time accrued was worth every cent.

The kids have gone their own ways and we vacation differently now so this car is going to be MY decadent pleasure.

Cost is well worth it.Life is short.

P.S. my boats for sale and it has an ocean troll permit!
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post #19 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-08-2019, 04:25 AM
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There are hundreds of very lightly used 2015-2018 Hellcats around with steep discounts. I've always bought new cars, but wouldn't be afraid to buy the right used Hellcat. I actually bought my first Hellcat new for well under invoice by going out of state. I traded it about 18 months later for a used Hellcat with very low mileage (under 5k) because I regretted not getting a manual originally. I actually feel like the used car is the better vehicle. Absolutely no supercharger noise and it just feels "tighter". I owned a Scat Pack as well. There is nothing wrong with them but the Hellcat is what you want. It's a crazy time where you can buy a 700 horsepower car for under 50k. There are also a lot of leftover widebody Hellcats that would be much cheaper than a Redeye. If you want that much power you could always tune it and do a pulley swap but the regular Hellcat in stock form is a handful for most.
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post #20 of 47 (permalink) Old 02-08-2019, 08:20 AM
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There are hundreds of very lightly used 2015-2018 Hellcats around with steep discounts. I've always bought new cars, but wouldn't be afraid to buy the right used Hellcat. I actually bought my first Hellcat new for well under invoice by going out of state. I traded it about 18 months later for a used Hellcat with very low mileage (under 5k) because I regretted not getting a manual originally. I actually feel like the used car is the better vehicle. Absolutely no supercharger noise and it just feels "tighter". I owned a Scat Pack as well. There is nothing wrong with them but the Hellcat is what you want. It's a crazy time where you can buy a 700 horsepower car for under 50k. There are also a lot of leftover widebody Hellcats that would be much cheaper than a Redeye. If you want that much power you could always tune it and do a pulley swap but the regular Hellcat in stock form is a handful for most.
I agree, I had a 2010 Challenger SRT, 425 HP, traded it on a 2015 SRT, 485 HP. I now have traded up to a Hellcat, it was used with 1400 miles and in perfect condition. All 3 of my Challengers were great, lots of power. However the Hellcat is a beast! You can feel that extra 200 HP for sure and the attention it gets is fun. The Hellcat is by far more fun, more exciting to drive and I am glad I have her.
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