Replacement motor - Page 3 - Dodge Challenger Forum: Challenger & SRT8 Forums
Dodge Challenger R/T Specific This area is for discussion specific to the Dodge Challenger R/T model.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-11-2019, 02:53 PM
Supporting Vendor
 
stevewhiteparts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: NEWTON, NC
Posts: 11,337
Thanks: 1,748
Thanked 3,209 Times in 2,046 Posts
Feedback Score: 6 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by McCloud View Post
Seems like you could load an updated Tune if you went with a newer engine. They offer the Harness with it includes the PCM. Any issues just using a new PCM?
in some application, different sensor and tuning will overcome it, however we have seen some unusual issues, and some that only replacement of the tone ring will fix

THANK YOU FOR SHOPPING WITH US
WE WILL NOT BE UNDERSOLD!!!!!!
PLEASE VISIT

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

FOR THE BEST MOPAR PARTS PRICES ON THE INTERNET!!!!!!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

828-324-4410
800-779-3634

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
stevewhiteparts is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to stevewhiteparts For This Useful Post:
McCloud (01-11-2019)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-11-2019, 02:54 PM
Supporting Vendor
 
stevewhiteparts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: NEWTON, NC
Posts: 11,337
Thanks: 1,748
Thanked 3,209 Times in 2,046 Posts
Feedback Score: 6 reviews
for example if your going to use the plug and play system from Mopar and plan on using a used engine, make sure its a 2014 or newer engine
stevewhiteparts is offline  
post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-11-2019, 03:04 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,051
Thanks: 0
Thanked 241 Times in 198 Posts
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuke View Post
Is that the hootus that the Crankshaft Position Sensor keys on when sending its signals on down the line to the PCM?

I’m envisioning those teeth on the tone ring being what the sensor detects, and it knows how to translate that into a useable position within the rotation of the crank...

Am I even close or waaaaay off?
Pretty much the way it works. The crankshaft position sensor is a Hall Effect sensor and the movement of the teeth past the sensor results in a voltage pulse which is supplied to the engine controller and probably drives a hardware timer. The long toothless/empty gap coupled with the long gap with with no spaces allows the engine controller to figure out which of the other pulses generated by the passing teeth maps to which cylinder. The controller knows then when to trigger the fuel injector, the spark, and also measures the amount of acceleration each cylinder contributes and if one is under (or over) performing will use this to log a misfire error code.

I've never seen one of these inside the block. For my Porsche cars there was a flywheel mounted toothed ring and the crankshaft sensor bolted to the side of the block and the sensor then was partially inside the bell housing.

I'll post a link to pic that is representative of what this looks like: (You'll have to click on the "click to enlarge" at the small pic in the link to get the larger image.)

https://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts...2#immersedview


The black toothed ring can be seen on the flywheel.
Rockster is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-11-2019, 03:55 PM
Senior Member
 
ChallyTatum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: The state where 4 out of 7 former Governors went to jail
Posts: 4,238
Thanks: 412
Thanked 960 Times in 799 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Regarding the crank sensor wheel, I thought as long as the replacement engine also was VVT there should be no issues. BTW I think the crate PCM comes with no SKIM which is great if you are doing a resto mod but not sure how it plays with the modules on the car?

https://www.knowyourparts.com/techni...-hemi-anatomy/
"The original Gen III motor came with NGC so it had the 32 tooth crank sensor wheel, but they stepped up to a 58 tooth sensor wheel on the new motor because the computer “needed more immediate and accurate information on the position of the crankshaft during rotation” so it could control and coordinate MDS and VVT along with direct ignition and all of the other electronics used on these engines.

Keep in mind that it deactivates four cylinders in firing order sequence, with the exhaust valve closed, in about 10 milliseconds when the computer commands MDS. That’s less time than it takes the cam to make one revolution at anything much above an idle, so the VVT motors needed a 58 tooth crank sensor wheel along with a 4X cam sensor and a faster PCM."

Ah, did not know about the different tooth widths...thanks Luke!
http://www.engineprofessional.com/TB/TB112017-1.pdf


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2015 Challenger RT+ (non-STP)
8lb Magnuson w/ Innovate PSB-1 wideband/boost/shift light gauge
Corsa extreme (2.5")
4" Aluminum one-piece driveshaft
Hellcat bottom airbox
Stainless Works LT headers (2" primaries)
Barton shifter assembly w/ Lou's short shaft and Speed Dawg knob
Comp Cam 7929 & 7748 push rods (gives slightly more lifter preload)
A2speed aluminum coil and valve covers (built in catchcan)

Last edited by ChallyTatum; 01-11-2019 at 03:59 PM.
ChallyTatum is online now  
post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-16-2019, 09:32 AM
Lifetime Premium Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Houston,TX
Posts: 586
Thanks: 7
Thanked 87 Times in 65 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Also OP needs a non-MDS engine being that he has a manual transmission. Se he needs VVT non-MDS.

Something like this.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Complete-5-...s/153336732927


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2009 Stone White R/T
D1 w/ Stage II FMIC | 85mm Ported Throttle Body
ARH Longtubes | Corsa Sport Exhaust |
BigRobsRT is offline  
post #26 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-16-2019, 01:26 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
(Thread Starter)
First of all I’d like to thank everyone for the response on this topic.

The reason why I was looking at the crate motor is when you add in the core charge intake replacement and clutch and pressure plate to the long block the crate motor price is considerably cheaper.

I’m a little worried about salvage motors even with low mileage due to valve train issues. I don’t want to chew up another motor at 55k again.
Philzo is offline  
post #27 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-16-2019, 02:20 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,051
Thanks: 0
Thanked 241 Times in 198 Posts
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philzo View Post
First of all I’d like to thank everyone for the response on this topic.

The reason why I was looking at the crate motor is when you add in the core charge intake replacement and clutch and pressure plate to the long block the crate motor price is considerably cheaper.

I’m a little worried about salvage motors even with low mileage due to valve train issues. I don’t want to chew up another motor at 55k again.

Salvage motors are a roll of the dice.


A new crate motor for around $6K ain't bad. (I priced a replacement engine for my 2002 Boxster: $26K without core, $17K with core; fortunately I didn't need a replacement engine I was just being curious.)


It is the relatively low price of a replacement engine for USA cars that to me is an attraction. One can "resurrect" an otherwise good car/truck with a new factory motor.
Rockster is online now  
post #28 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-18-2019, 10:38 AM
Junior Member
 
Mprmk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Washington State
Posts: 14
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevewhiteparts View Post
not quite true, thats a non MDS engine meant for pro touring and resto mod, however it is a current build, so latest and greatest, the issue with installing in a pre 2014 is the tone ring, different tone ring which can be a huge issue, much better to replace with a Mopar long block assembly if you have a failure and probably much cheaper
Luke
It's a manual transmission so it doesnt have MDS anyway so that wont be an issue.
Mprmk is offline  
post #29 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-20-2019, 06:04 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
(Thread Starter)
I like to thank everyone for their input on this matter. I decided to go with a custom build on the motor I have.... eliminating all the Mopar problems with the valves and pistons... I’ll keep everyone posted on this and should be up and running in a month.
Philzo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Dodge Challenger Forum: Challenger & SRT8 Forums > Model Specific Discussion > Dodge Challenger R/T Specific

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Dodge Challenger Forum: Challenger & SRT8 Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome