In the effort to continue the quest to go as fast as possible on bolt on's, I purchased the new Edelbrock manifold.
This thread will be dedicated to the results I see and also comments about the design,etc.
I will go with this combo:
Edelbrock Manifold and fuel rails - $989
OEM 92mm Throttle Body - $250 w/ bolts,etc
BWoody Short Ram CAI - $364 w/ custom powdercoat job
This isn't a cheap mod for sure. All told, the parts above are about $1,600. I will hopefully be able to sell my current setup for about $700. So, I'll be in it for $900.
I saw a dyno from OST where a 6.1L manifold gained over 20 rwhp on a stroker over a ported 6.4L manifold. Granted most of the gains were up top, but I hope the Edelbrock manifold provides better low end support.
I would consider it worth it if I could gain 15-20 rwhp for $900.
Anyone else that installs the manifold is welcome to post their results and thoughts here.
The Edelbrock intake is not playing nice with the new build. The manifold works well; however I'm getting a lot of oil in the intake...even with a catch can.
I have a RX 4 chamber can on order that should stop the issue; however it won't correct the poor design for the PCV location.
Also, the manifold uses a factory 6.1L PCV valve. I'm going to get a PCV valve delete fitting made for the new catch can plumbing.
I was shocked at the amount of oil in the intake manifold and heads even with a BT catch can installed. The 4 chamber catch can should work better at preventing oil from reaching the intake system but I doubt it will stop it. I worked for a large turbo compressor manufacturer. One project was to reduce the amount of oil vapor emitted into the atmosphere. Bottom line, nothing short of a plug stopped it.
Hope you will keep us up to date on your findings. I really enjoy your build thread.
The draw for the PCV is right in head with no cambered area like the 6.1, so it will pull any oil it can, which there is no shortage of. to stop that on my Drag pack intake I went with Hellcat valve covers that have the PCV in the cover rather then the intake.
This thread has got me curious as to if I would see any gains or loss on mine, considering all my enhancements, I mean mods, or if I would be better served staying with the stock one. But then again, if I decide to go F/I, It would be worthless to get this... Decisions, decisions...
Update-- Just ordered the intake yesterday, got it for $780... Still have to order the fuel rails though, they were out of stock from the vendor... I figure whether I see gains or not, it will liven up the engine bay none the less.
Well I finished the install today of the manifold and fuel rails, No Air or fuel leaks so I guess I did a decent job, saving myself a few hundred dollars. I was a little pissed off with the Edlebrock instructions that called for a 3/8" fuel disconnect tool, when it really required a 5/16" (but that's a minor detail).
Took the car for a spin, but couldn't really run some proper logs to monitor for ST or LT knk, but it feels more responsive when pressing on the gas, akin to being eager to accelerate quicker. I can't comment if I lost or gained any HP or TQ, so I'll have to get it dyno'd... Last time i had it dyno'd I was around 380rwhp and 405tq, but as I said car feels more responsive. The car doesn't feel like it's lost any TQ, but I'm running with MDS turned off anyway, so could be placebo... Quick glance at the A/F monitor showed right around 14 - 15 at idle... Sunday may be a good day for a couple logs, since i have to work this weekend and there are a few good stretches of highway on my 20 mile commute.
Whether I lost power, remain the same or gained, I'm keeping the intake in, it's just one more step... in a year or two i'll be stroking it to a 392, so it will be needed regardless. Plus it looks sexy under the hood. I'll drop a pic or two on sunday of the finished install.
Took the car for a spin, but couldn't really run some proper logs to monitor for ST or LT knk, but it feels more responsive when pressing on the gas, akin to being eager to accelerate quicker. I can't comment if I lost or gained any HP or TQ, so I'll have to get it dyno'd... Last time i had it dyno'd I was around 380rwhp and 405tq, but as I said car feels more responsive. The car doesn't feel like it's lost any TQ, but I'm running with MDS turned off anyway, so could be placebo... Quick glance at the A/F monitor showed right around 14 - 15 at idle... Sunday may be a good day for a couple logs, since i have to work this weekend and there are a few good stretches of highway on my 20 mile commute.
So my logs showed a little more ST KNK than usual for me. On the stock Manifold I was hitting around 1.5 - 2* of ST KNK in the upper RPM's (3k - 5k), my WOT fuel trims were 4%, 6% and 12.5%. My logs on Sunday (both in Drive and Sport Mode) had me hitting 4* anywhere from 2.5k - 5.2k, and noticed my injector duty cycle's were around 85%. Johan's recommendation was to add a little more fuel to the WOT trims, and possibly upgrading my injectors, which I have some 36#'s that I order earlier this year, (which would require a rebuild of my tune file). I'm going to up the fuel, but this wet weather for the next week here in NY isn't going to allow for proper WOT runs. Hopefully this weekend it clears up and I can get a couple runs in, i'm just wondering if I'm chasing an elusive target at this point, I just want to get back to having no more than 1.5 - 2* of ST KNK.
It stands for short term Knock, LT knk would be long term knock. Short term is when the computer pulls timing temporarily. Basically you don't want any knock or at least want to minimize it.
So I was able to do some adjustments to the WOT fuel, currently set to 1 - 3.8k: 7.5%, 4 - 4.8k: 10%, 5k+ 15% and did a couple runs at 3rd - 4th gear and saw ST KNK 1 - 2* (this was yesterday afternoon). Today I did one WOT run in 3 - 4th gear on my morning commute and saw only 1* of ST KNK. My AFR's have been consistently between 11.5 - 12.5 at WOT. When cruising, i'm seeing consistent 14 - 15 AFR's. I think i'm as good as i'm going to get... Now I just need to get a dyno done and see if their was any gains or loss... Gonna do a few more logs and see if it's consistent and look at my Injector's Duty cycles and make sure i'm not maxing them out before swapping and having Johan rewriting the tune.
I"m thinking throwing more fuel to correct the ST KNK issue is going to lose you some power. If you don't mind me suggesting, pull timing until you don't get ST KNK with around a 12.5 AFR.
I can't remember who you said you have your tune through... I have tried a couple of different tuners and Joshua with HHP has my car running best. He can get you a good tune guaranteed. I almost think the guy that ran intake on his 5.7 used HHP for his tune before the intake and another tuner after the victor intake install. The tune alone could have affected his results... I don't mean to discredit anyone but it did throw another variable in there. As you know one tune to the next can change the entire behavior of the engine.
I"m thinking throwing more fuel to correct the ST KNK issue is going to lose you some power. If you don't mind me suggesting, pull timing until you don't get ST KNK with around a 12.5 AFR.
SO I followed your advice and retarded my timing 1 degree, and roll back on my WOT Fuel by .5 degree's across the whole RPM range and saw no knock. I'll roll back another .5 degree on the Fuel on my way home today and see if anything pops up, while maintaining the 1 degree retard.
0 ST/LT KNK, but the AFR's were less than ideal @ approximately 11.
As for my tuner, I have a Johan (diablotoona) tune on the car, he's as reliable as they come, not about to jump ship, as he makes safe tunes.
Sorry to revive this - I'm looking to go this route as well, except with my 84mm TV. What were the final verified gains? And did this up being heads and intake? Or just intake and rails?
In the effort to continue the quest to go as fast as possible on bolt on's, I purchased the new Edelbrock manifold.
This thread will be dedicated to the results I see and also comments about the design,etc.
I will go with this combo:
Edelbrock Manifold and fuel rails - $989
OEM 92mm Throttle Body - $250 w/ bolts,etc
BWoody Short Ram CAI - $364 w/ custom powdercoat job
This isn't a cheap mod for sure. All told, the parts above are about $1,600. I will hopefully be able to sell my current setup for about $700. So, I'll be in it for $900.
I saw a dyno from OST where a 6.1L manifold gained over 20 rwhp on a stroker over a ported 6.4L manifold. Granted most of the gains were up top, but I hope the Edelbrock manifold provides better low end support.
I would consider it worth it if I could gain 15-20 rwhp for $900.
Anyone else that installs the manifold is welcome to post their results and thoughts here.
So I just had my edelbrock manifold intake, Victor 2 installed, but with upgrading a manifold intake, you will lose low end power. Mid and high power will increase, so my tuner Jay Greene told me about and he suggested I get a torque converter high stall 3200. So with both mods installed now my car has gain 30+ horses. I mean it's a brand new car, the only thing left for me to do is a throttle body and a cam.
I looked into that as well, it's cheaper than a custom cam but My tuner Jay Greene told me they are terrible in a 5.7, they gain peak power but the low end and mid-range are awful.
Trust me, I get it. But like I said peak power will be higher than before but low and mid-range will not hit the way it should. So I have seen guys got increase horsepower, but what's not realize is that the low end and mid-range power is not going to be good.
Yeah, according to the dyno results the 6.4 appears to have the same power/torque trend in low to mid RPMs. Although the exhaust setups are different (5.7 example has LT, 6.4 has shorties and 6.4 intake). I would like to know the cam specs of the cam Mr. Greene is recommending?
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Yes so far I have a lower hellcat airbox with tube, 180 thermostat, 3200 high stall converter(hellcat), edelbrock manifold intake, a pedal box not a pedal commander and custom tune from Jay greene. I have my 86mm throttle body on the way from fastman, then I'm getting a stage 1.5 cam from my tuner. That will put me right at 500-510.
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In stock trim a 5.7 puts out ~330RWHP...so we are taking about a 170HP gain out of just a cam and intake? Although running nitrous will get you there. At best I would guess a cam, headers and heads will get +100 to 120ish HP gain.
shopHEMI.com - 5.7L and 6.1HEMI Performance parts, Arrington signature performance parts, hard-to-find MOPAR parts for Dodge Challengers, Chargers, 300C and Magnum
shopHEMI.com - 5.7L and 6.1HEMI Performance parts, Arrington signature performance parts, hard-to-find MOPAR parts for Dodge Challengers, Chargers, 300C and Magnum
www.shophemi.com
In stock trim a 5.7 puts out ~330RWHP...so we are taking about a 170HP gain out of just a cam and intake? Although running nitrous will get you there. At best I would guess a cam, headers and heads will get +100 to 120ish HP gain.
Yes you are right, not 500 rwhp but just 500 total horsepower. I only go by total horses lol not rwhp. But once I do the cam and throttle body, I'm going Turbo. Just trying to find a good deal
I'll keep my 6.1 intake then. I'm about to get a Jay Greene Stage 2.5 HL v2 cam and a set of Hooker Blackheart long tubes for my 5.7 (I already have the headers), then get Jay Greene to retune the car.
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