converting to E85 - Page 5 - Dodge Challenger Forum: Challenger & SRT8 Forums
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post #41 of 54 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 06:16 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ChallyTatum View Post
Can't the existing lines be used? I thought most folks just ran different pumps for E85 conversion? I remember Speedies Garage had some images or vid showing an install of a dual fuel pump hat. Maybe some of the pics will help. Too bad the forum blocks out the site.
I am installing a return style fuel system to support the larger displacement stroker engine running E85 and boost.
The single factory fuel line won't flow enough fuel, and there is no return line from the factory.


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post #42 of 54 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by chizzle1 View Post
need a little help: how do I get the fuel lines up to the driver side tank?
There is virtually no room between the tank and the surrounding sheet metal.
Will i need to drill holes and trim sheet metal?
I am probably going to install the pump with the stock lines first, then once I get the lines in place and cut to length swap over.

Any help is appreciated.
I have several pictures of the Fore return style system in my 16 Challenger
that may help you . pm an email address if you want to see them.
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post #43 of 54 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 01:20 PM Thread Starter
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I have several pictures of the Fore return style system in my 16 Challenger
that may help you . pm an email address if you want to see them.
PM sent. I have the instructions on how to wire it up and connect it, I'm just unsure how to get the aftermarket -8 lines up to the top area of the tank where they connect to the hat.
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post #44 of 54 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 07:22 PM
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Livernoise Motorsports IS doing flex fuel tuning on HEMI’s. I’ve been contemplating crossing that bridge as well. I just purchased an ethanol content sensor and gage for my build. I’m going to ask Aj if he can work something otherwise I’ll just go full e85 for the summer. Maybe another table to pull appropriate timing and fuel depending on content. Similar to the ls guys running another table off their 93 pump tune for nitrous. I have to find it , but I’ve read some bit about it. I’ll get back when I do.


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I'll give my two cents on E85. I ran it in my Speed3 as a mix, and we never had issues with knock. Typically we'd run 5 gallons of E and 10 of 93. I picked up about 70/70 on horsepower and torque. Rough math says an estimated octane of the E85 being 107-109 (I know alcohol can't be octane rated, but that was always the estimate made) and once you average it out with the 93 it ended up being something like 97-98. Way higher octane rating than you'd need, but you still have the fueling headroom by not losing volume due to the alcohol. With us it was a necessary thing because of DI and no aftermarket injectors. If we ran 100% E our fuel pump would gum up after about 1000 miles and the maximum amount of power we could make on a tune was 280 wheel and IDCs were well north of 110%. Also the other positive thing to a mix too is not having to worry about it causing the fuel lines to deteriorate as quickly. I'd guess there's a reason V8 guys haven't ever ran a mix, but I've never been sure. Just thought I'd chime in and potentially add to the discussion.

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post #45 of 54 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 06:27 AM Thread Starter
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I'll give my two cents on E85. I ran it in my Speed3 as a mix, and we never had issues with knock. Typically we'd run 5 gallons of E and 10 of 93. I picked up about 70/70 on horsepower and torque. Rough math says an estimated octane of the E85 being 107-109 (I know alcohol can't be octane rated, but that was always the estimate made) and once you average it out with the 93 it ended up being something like 97-98. Way higher octane rating than you'd need, but you still have the fueling headroom by not losing volume due to the alcohol. With us it was a necessary thing because of DI and no aftermarket injectors. If we ran 100% E our fuel pump would gum up after about 1000 miles and the maximum amount of power we could make on a tune was 280 wheel and IDCs were well north of 110%. Also the other positive thing to a mix too is not having to worry about it causing the fuel lines to deteriorate as quickly. I'd guess there's a reason V8 guys haven't ever ran a mix, but I've never been sure. Just thought I'd chime in and potentially add to the discussion.

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I need the higher than 93 octane rating due to the current compression ratio, once I add the blower it will be even more of a requirement.
The parts (pump, lines, regualtor) I am using are rated to work with E85 and other alcohol based fuels, so degradation or corrosion should not be an issue.
With 60 psi at the rail, and the current 52# injectors I should be good with NA and E85.
Once I go forced induction I'll need at least 90# injectors to flow enough.

Back to the current debacle: after putting the car up on jack stands last night it looks like the tank may need to be lowered to run the lines. I am hoping I can drop it far enough to run the lines without removing the driveshaft and exhaust...
I might be able to drill some holes and use grommets but I would need to make sure it doesn't intrude into the cabin.
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post #46 of 54 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 06:47 AM Thread Starter
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finally some forward progress.
Had a friend of mine who runs a speed shop (and has a lift) help me with running the lines from the tank to the engine bay.
The tank had to come down a few inches and then the lines ran up a small opening on the driver side.

Using Vibrant hoses & fittings, Holley regulator, BBK rails, and other various parts supplied by summit.
I'm a little leery of the BBK rails, I don't like how the injectors seat into it. We'll see what happens once I put pressure to it.
So far have the feed side plumbed, need to run the return side, fab the wiring harness for the pump, and swap the basket.
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post #47 of 54 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 08:02 PM
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post #48 of 54 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 08:36 AM Thread Starter
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And then you're done...

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LOL...that was a good one.
I know, i know...I am done...with the fuel system install
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post #49 of 54 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 08:47 AM Thread Starter
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All done and buttoned up.
No leaks, and not too bad of an install (still a pain in the ass IMHO).
A couple pointers: the wiring colors vary by year, make a note of what color wires go to what pin the internal and external connectors.
Clamp the plastic lines when re-installing the hats. They will, and did in my case (see pic), pop off when switching to a return style setup.
You can install the regulator by-pass items with the passenger side hat in the car, might be easier to remove it but I didn't want to mess with trying to pry loose hoses that have been attached for 11 years.

The AFR was a little fat with the regulator set to 60, backing it off to ~55 seems to have fixed it.
When I fill up with E 85 I'll bump it back up to 60.

some random pics of the install, I didn't get any of the wiring harness as it was getting late and I needed to finish up. Essentially it's a fused 12AWG relay from the battery with the factory power wire as the trigger.
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post #50 of 54 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 08:53 AM Thread Starter
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Still need to install the filter and check valve...and a pic of the MOST important item to have on hand when doing a fuel system install.
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