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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 08:09 PM
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"Old school" sound is possible but not for $1400 considering the cost of PCM requires modification, tuner, tune, exhaust and cam.


BTW this is not my challenger but I must admit one of my favorite vids of a cammed 5.7.


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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 09:35 PM
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You will not get old school sound out of today's engines.. back in the day Cylinder heads were horrible flow wise so cams needed a lot of overlap to scavenge the exhaust side leading to the lope that everyone loves . todays OE Hemi heads flow better than the all out race heads from back in the day . if you put that kind of overlap into today's Hemi you would kill the performance. forget how it sounds and go for results.
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-17-2019, 06:55 AM Thread Starter
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You will not get old school sound out of today's engines.. back in the day Cylinder heads were horrible flow wise so cams needed a lot of overlap to scavenge the exhaust side leading to the lope that everyone loves . todays OE Hemi heads flow better than the all out race heads from back in the day . if you put that kind of overlap into today's Hemi you would kill the performance. forget how it sounds and go for results.
The post above yours suggests your quite WRONG about not being able to get the "sound"..... at least that's what his clip is telling my ears.

As for results?

Modern Tech is pretty tough to beat. Incredible MPG and Power is a Combination the old engines with Carburetors on top simply can't even come remotely close to in "stock, from back in the day trim". But I wouldn't be so quick to discount the potential of Updated tech in the older designs for making power.

In a TOY like the old Corvette I put up in the OP MPG isn't much of a consideration worth my effort in a car that sees so very little use each year. The 383 in it today benefits from things that weren't typical and available in anything but super high buck efforts in the 1960s and 70s.

A roller cam with faster ramp speed, computer designed and cut aluminum heads are at the top of the list of things that squeeze out big HP that would have been a lot tougher to find back in the day.

This car is a MILD use of what can be done today with old school tech and yet it'll run the 1/4 mile right along side my 392TA. It's Dyno proven 455HP at the crank is less than the 392 in the TA can make but it's a car that weighs in at just about 3,200pds after all the changes I've made over the years to it's suspension and under the hood so it gives up nothing to the TA in a straight line sprint.

For a look at what can be made of "old school" tech today, if you're willing to spend the money, without power adders like turbos, nitrous or super-charging..... read on and take a peak at the videos. In this MOPAR forum I could and probably should have highlighted a stroked, modern take on the 340 or 360 but since my old Corvette is a SBC so I'm sticking with the theme.

It's hard to call this car built by Nelson racing engines a SLEEPER but I think it just about qualifies and lifting the hood after a race to reveal the "Stock appearance of it's original 302" would be a real surprise for anyone who mistakenly believes it's the original 302. Modern motors have better stock vs stock flow vs. the old muscle motors for sure.......but a lot of the stuff that makes that possible is now being applied to older design starting points in the after market.

This car has a stroked 427 SBC and a carb and heads that flow very well, enough to supply enough flow to make the REALLY BIG power revealed in the video. I really doubt even a Hell Cat could take this car on and expect to win a 1/4 mile sprint. At barely over 3,000pds (that distinct lack of MODERN tech has a big advantage in the leaner weight figures).....650HP is more than enough potential to bury a 700HP car carrying more than a 1,000 extra pds. Though it's still absolutely true that the Hell Cat can achieve 2x and possible 3x the MPG on the ride home vs.old Camaro. God knows if I gotta drive it to work and around town every day I'm not picking the old car over a modern car.





For a more in dept look at the SBC 427 Nelson builds:


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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-17-2019, 08:32 AM
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Sweet clip Chally!
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-17-2019, 09:30 AM Thread Starter
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"Old school" sound is possible but not for $1400 considering the cost of PCM requires modification, tuner, tune, exhaust and cam.

Comp 274 cam on 5.7 challenger - YouTube

BTW this is not my challenger but I must admit one of my favorite vids of a cammed 5.7.
Yup. Sounds really good.
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-17-2019, 09:33 AM Thread Starter
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Gotta like this one too......though I could do without the "cut outs' but before he opens them up it sounds GREAT!! 1:20-1:40 is about as close to "old school" sound as it gets in a new car.




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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-17-2019, 12:29 PM
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TA: Just got off the phone with my builder and he clarified that the 13:1 is static compression. He said normal compression is 11.9:1. That makes sense now.
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-17-2019, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by TA 392 YJ View Post
The post above yours suggests your quite WRONG about not being able to get the "sound"..... at least that's what his clip is telling my ears.

As for results?

Modern Tech is pretty tough to beat. Incredible MPG and Power is a Combination the old engines with Carburetors on top simply can't even come remotely close to in "stock, from back in the day trim". But I wouldn't be so quick to discount the potential of Updated tech in the older designs for making power.

In a TOY like the old Corvette I put up in the OP MPG isn't much of a consideration worth my effort in a car that sees so very little use each year. The 383 in it today benefits from things that weren't typical and available in anything but super high buck efforts in the 1960s and 70s.

A roller cam with faster ramp speed, computer designed and cut aluminum heads are at the top of the list of things that squeeze out big HP that would have been a lot tougher to find back in the day.

This car is a MILD use of what can be done today with old school tech and yet it'll run the 1/4 mile right along side my 392TA. It's Dyno proven 455HP at the crank is less than the 392 in the TA can make but it's a car that weighs in at just about 3,200pds after all the changes I've made over the years to it's suspension and under the hood so it gives up nothing to the TA in a straight line sprint.

For a look at what can be made of "old school" tech today, if you're willing to spend the money, without power adders like turbos, nitrous or super-charging..... read on and take a peak at the videos. In this MOPAR forum I could and probably should have highlighted a stroked, modern take on the 340 or 360 but since my old Corvette is a SBC so I'm sticking with the theme.

It's hard to call this car built by Nelson racing engines a SLEEPER but I think it just about qualifies and lifting the hood after a race to reveal the "Stock appearance of it's original 302" would be a real surprise for anyone who mistakenly believes it's the original 302. Modern motors have better stock vs stock flow vs. the old muscle motors for sure.......but a lot of the stuff that makes that possible is now being applied to older design starting points in the after market.

This car has a stroked 427 SBC and a carb and heads that flow very well, enough to supply enough flow to make the REALLY BIG power revealed in the video. I really doubt even a Hell Cat could take this car on and expect to win a 1/4 mile sprint. At barely over 3,000pds (that distinct lack of MODERN tech has a big advantage in the leaner weight figures).....650HP is more than enough potential to bury a 700HP car carrying more than a 1,000 extra pds. Though it's still absolutely true that the Hell Cat can achieve 2x and possible 3x the MPG on the ride home vs.old Camaro. God knows if I gotta drive it to work and around town every day I'm not picking the old car over a modern car.



Camaro DZ 302(NRE Stealth 427CI) Street Test. 1969. Nelson Racing Engines. Chevelle, Camaro - YouTube


For a more in dept look at the SBC 427 Nelson builds:

New 650 HP NA 427CI(7L) SBC from Nelson Racing Engines. NRE TV Episode 211. - YouTube
You put a lot of time and effort into telling me my OPINION and what I hear is wrong. NRE 427 and the like is old news . in 2005 I built a 427 SBC 13:1 on E85 SR and still race it today.. but thanks for trying to get me current..
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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-18-2019, 05:52 AM Thread Starter
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TA: Just got off the phone with my builder and he clarified that the 13:1 is static compression. He said normal compression is 11.9:1. That makes sense now.
Still pretty high for a street motor and a big "hat tip" to modern tech. PERFECT control of timing and constant monitoring for detention has allowed for Compression ratios that are far higher than is possible in an old school set up without a computer.

It's getting a little deeper into the weeds when we get to talk about "static" compression vs the real world compression, as assembled and running, after the cam choice but again this is one of those things that does have to be considered before choosing components for a build.

You don't hear this as much these days as I did when I was a kid working with my own first performance efforts along with my buddies working on their own cars. Big changes and builds like you've done aren't as easy or cheap as in the past and completely built and pre-assemble crate motors like the one I put in the Corvette from that first post take all the guess work away.

Still.....it hasn't been so very long that I don't remember how often someone would do that top end "build up" of a motor on their own in the 1980s. Often starting out with an emissions era car from the 1973-1983 10 year time period when compression ratios had fallen off a cliff vs the previous decade. A lot of guys would attempt that old model for creating an easy 75-100hp that worked really well in the days of higher compression ratios. The cam, intake, carb and header swap. The result would often be an engine that fell on it's face. Lost low and mid-range power with only modest gains in the top end that made the motor a huge MISTAKE vs what used to be a sure thing power adder.

Clearly that bigger HP figure you're getting has a lot of it's explanation found in a pretty aggressive cam profile. 13:1 static ratio is your builder's attempt to give you MORE top end power with out any excessive loss of low end and mid-range power.

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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-18-2019, 06:02 AM Thread Starter
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You put a lot of time and effort into telling me my OPINION and what I hear is wrong. NRE 427 and the like is old news . in 2005 I built a 427 SBC 13:1 on E85 SR and still race it today.. but thanks for trying to get me current..
Maybe so........but honestly. I don't think I could ever say as much about how wrong you are as those videos posted do.

Stumbling idles, due to intake and exhaust over-lap, and the over all racy sound are less commonly heard today but aggressive cams do still produce that same sound in new engines as they did in the older engines.

If you can't hear it? I can't explain that. Regardless of time and effort I might put into it.
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