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Understanding wheel and tire fitment.

12K views 109 replies 12 participants last post by  skynyed 
#1 · (Edited)
Looking to upgrade the rims on my 2019 pcp shaker and I'm unsure of a few things. Hoping someone can clear things up.
I've decided I want 5 spoke chrome rims and was hoping I can just have someone local swap over the tires and tmps sensors.
From what I can gather I currently have 20x8 5x115 bolt pattern and I assume a +20 offset.
Some web sites say 5x114.3 bolt pattern will fit/ others say no?
If I go with say 0 offset they'll push the rims out about 3/4 inch? Probably not ideal.
Can I go with a 8.5 or 9 inch rim and still safely use my stock 245s?
Pvd chrome? Better than plain chrome?
Here's a few sites I've been looking at.
Thoughts and opinions will be greatly appreciated.

Ok the links didn't show up but I'm considering Foose legends, AR torq thrust, Vision Legend 5 and
20x9 Rocket Racing Modern Muscle Booster Chrome MMR14
American Racing
AR605 Torq Thrust M
20 X8.5 5-115.00 18 CSCHXX
Foose Legend Chrome Wheel - 20x8.5
 
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#2 ·
Consider sticking with the 5x115 . Not every manufacturer makes that drill pattern however, if you are ordering the wheels direct from the manufacturer, they have the tooling to do it if they have 114. You can either have your tire/wheel guy call and ask or call yourself. I used to sell wheels and sometimes they dont list the bolt pattern.

The alternative, drill out the 114’s to 115. Scary to drill brand new wheels but once you get over that fact, you’re golden.

Plenty if companies make 115 patterns appropriate for our cars, look in Bravado i think they have a chrome 5 spoke design.


Please do not put anything skinnier than a 9” wheel on your car. You’re shrinking your contact patch by doing that. I would highly recommend going to even 9.5 if available. Should be able to re-use your current tires, as well as upgrade to wider ones in the future if you like
 
#13 ·
Thanks Jimmy makes perfect sense.



Btw I've got a much better understanding after searching the web and mostly the sometimes heated exchanges here lol.
From what I now understand is my stock wheels have a 24 offset, 4.96 backspace and center bore of 71.6
Not sure if adding 11.4 mm is a good idea to get to 83mm. Some say the two different metals can deterioate the rings or rim over time.
 
#14 ·
Some say the two different metals can deterioate the rings or rim over time.
There are (used to be?) plastic indexing rings available, but I wouldn't worry too much about dissimilar metals unless you live in a place where it rains all the time, or they use salt or worse chemicals for deicing. Many good wheel companies include the appropriate rings for the application, by the way.
 
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#16 ·
Not sure I'd feel comfortable with almost a 1/2 inch of plastic holding the wheels on center.
Well, it's not exactly the same kind of plastic as, say, a plastic fork. And even if it was, that's still better than nothing.

Besides, while the difference between ID and OD is nearly half an inch, the thickness of the ring is obviously only half of that,
or 0.2323".

If you still don't trust them (I would), either search out metal ones or have a machine shop whip a set up.
 
#23 ·
To be fair, I have also read about people having their wheels fall off when running 5x114.3 wheels on a car meant for 5x115 - due to lugs snapping. Granted, most of the time you'd be fine, but there is always a chance of lug failure when running with incorrect wheels - and they are incorrect - that's why they are listed with a different size to begin with. If it really didn't matter, they they would just label them all the same. :)

I'm not positive about this, but I have always heard that cars like this are hub- *and* lug-centric, which makes sense. The lugnuts are shaped in way where they help center the wheel when they are tightened - and the wheel does fit over the hub, right? So wouldn't that be hub- *and* lug-centric? It's not like our lugnuts are the old "flat" style that don't center the wheel as they are tightened...
 
#25 ·
My weld wheels have a far bigger center bore than 71.3. They center on my lugnuts.
See what I wrote about the measurement and tolerances of your already existing studs and stud gage. They vary quite a bit. I use hubcnetric rings on my other 5x114.3 wheels to assist with centering until the lugs take over when torqued.


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#28 ·
we would never install the wrong bolt pattern or the wrong eccentric, simply too much liability and we would not recommend it, can you get away with it, probably, but your in a 4200 lbs car that makes easily 400+ hps, why risk it, simply not worth it



Luke


Of course you guys wouldn’t , and I wouldn’t blame you because of idiots out there like that irrit8ted guy who won’t take accountability for their own actions. But , the tolerances are all there. Imo it would be worse to put a 305 on 9.5” wheel than to put a 5x114.3 on our 5x115.


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#32 ·
They should "rest" on the hub, if the wheel and vehicle match, on a hub centric vehicle.
That takes care of the wheel being perfectly centered on the hub.

The clamping force provided by the lug nuts keeps the wheel from rotating on the hub, and keep the wheel from falling off.

Those are really two different things on modern vehicles, where on some older ones there were cases where the wheel studs and nuts had to do both jobs.
 
#33 ·
When I put the wheels on my car, before I even put a lugnt on, the wheel lug holes in the wheel are not even touching the lugs, so the lugs can't be centering anything at that point - the wheel is already centered because it's resting on the hub... Then when I tighten the lugnuts, it also helps center the lugs in the wheel lug holes "perfectly". This is why I say they are hub- and lug-centric. Both the hub and the lugnuts play a part in centering everything.

This is assuming that you are either a) using OEM wheels with the correct center bore size or b) using aftermarket wheels with correcly-sized hubrings.

I think if you are using the correct wheels, they absolutely do use the hubs to center themselves - and then the lugnuts center the lugs in the wheel lug holes even furhter. If you are using incorrect wheels, then maybe they are lug-centric, but not correctly-sized OEM wheels.

My wheels certainly do not "hang" off of the lugs when I put them on - they rest on the hubs, which centers them.
 
#35 ·
Again wow , 60* conical lug nuts are used to center the wheel. They won’t be centered until torqued. Weld wheels are all lug centric, they sell for all makes. If you buy welds for a hub centric vehicle you WILL have to buy lug centric adapters to mount them. But I suppose weld racing has no clue either. Oh , yeah , my welds need no adapters .... hmmmmm


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#34 ·
Wow , this isn’t a debate. Chrysler vehicles are lug centric. Go outside , pull your wheels off. Take off your center caps. Put your wheels on. Tighten your lugs , your wheels WILL center on the studs and lift off of the hub. They are lug centric. The weight of the vehicle DOES NOT sit on the hubs.
Hub centric vehicles will have hubs so tight even the slightest rust around the hubs and the wheels won’t fit. Why is this so mind boggling?


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#46 ·
Someone please go out and take off a wheel and a center cap. Then tighten up your lugs , you will see the wheel center on the lugs and come of the hub. The hub is there to help center the wheel during mounting.
As far as the 5x114.3 , when I run those wheels I do use hub centric rings to help in keeping equal deflection of the studs.
When I go back to running my weld wheels , the center bore is a good bit larger(probably ~80mm or so) than the hubs on the car. They don’t even come close to sitting on the hub. When tightened by the correct procedure, they center themselves on the , you guessed it , lugs. Most if not all modern vehicles are lug centric. With the exception of some heavy duty trucks , where you will see , the wheels fit very tightly on the hub and have flat lugs , not conical.


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#49 ·
Most if not all modern vehicles are lug centric. With the exception of some heavy duty trucks , where you will see , the wheels fit very tightly on the hub and have flat lugs , not conical.
Actually, heavy trucks started using hub centric hubs and wheels relatively recently, and the flat nut and washer setup was used long before that.

Light duty dual rear wheel pickups also use that style of lug nut, and are hub centric.

I'll have to go out and see if I have anything (except for the '80 Peterbilt and its trailers) that isn't hub centric.
Well, if it has stock wheels on it, that is.
 
#48 ·
Wow.. Wasn't expecting all this.
I'd like to say something profound but I got nothin'
Except maybe this is a good example of "Ignorance is bliss."
Without all the helpful members here who took the time to help me out I probably would have just ordered something and believed their Guaranteed to fit promise and thought nothing more of it.
For my own piece of mind 5x155 bolt pattern is a must.
A bigger center bore with rings and properly torqued nuts is idk 99.99% safe?
I called several company's yesterday and was told the vision and torq thrust rims with the 5x115 pattern are being discontinued because their not selling. Makes me think about what if something happen to a rim a few yrs from now. Not being able to get a replacement would suck.

So I'm now looking for the best price on the Foose legends.
5x115 and 71.8 center bore. Near perfect fit!!!
I know several members here have them.
I'll post pics when installed.
Thanks for everyone's help.
 
#53 ·
My 2003 Superduty is hub centric. The nuts have washers attached and there is no conical seat on the wheel at all. The newer cars might have a snug fit with the center of the wheel just touching the hub but in the end it is just there to help keep the wheel centered as you tighten up the conical seat lug nuts. The hub lip on my Superduty F250 is pretty thick and does provide a lot of support but the lug nuts keep it all together. With conical seat lug nuts and seats, while the snug fitting hub might help a little, the weight is all on the studs. I doubt you will find a lot of aftermarket wheels that are the exact center hub diameter and a plastic spacer is just there to help keep it all centered up as you tighten up the nuts evenly.
 
#54 ·
... while the snug fitting hub might help a little, the weight is all on the studs.
Only if you leave the lug nuts loose. There really shouldn't be any weight applied to the wheel studs, no matter what, only tension. It's the clamping force that carries the weight, sometimes helped by well fitting hub and wheel combinations.

If I had known how this thread would play out I could've brought all these details up much earlier, but instead I tried to keep it simple. Too simple, apparently, which might have lead to some misunderstandings.
 
#58 · (Edited)
Ok Maybe someone can answer me this?

I'm driving down the highway minding my own business and inevitably hit a pothole at say 80mph.
The brunt of that force will be first absorbed by the tire and working up the rim.
Now with a hub correct rim my guess would be the hub itself would then do some absorbing.
On a non centric rim the rings are next and then the studs?

My question is could their be enough force to snap the studs on a non centric rim or would that just take way too much force?
 
#59 ·
You'd be surprised how much things bend and twist under even normal use. Maybe even scared.

Anyway, if a wheel is mounted correctly, with clean surfaces, I seriously doubt that the studs would let go. At least with a hub centric wheel and the correct bolt pattern.
But part of that is because the short sidewalls would likely give out first, shortly followed by the wheel.
 
#62 ·
Hit a pot hole hard enough and your tire will most likely be the first to go. Had a coworker blowout all 4 of his tires on his BMW after he hit an edge of asphalt that was created when a construction crew removed a layer of asphalt that ran perpendicular to traffic. According to the tire shop his rims were fine.
 
#65 ·
Oh, it has happened, and will keep happening. And not only with aftermarket wheels.
I suspect that loose (including from being over torqued) or missing lug nuts is the main reason.
 
#69 ·
I know this is a little off topic but I had to replace a rotor on my Ranger and used a cheap Chinese knock off I got from Checker Auto. I didn't know this at the time. I also put on brand new wheels and tires at the same time at Big O Tire. I was a regular there so I have no reason to believe they screwed up on the install and they torqued each lug nut by hand. I made it less than 100 miles before all the pressed in studs broke off the new Chinese rotor. The new wheels and tires were only one size bugger than stock and afterwords I ran them for 10 more years. It turns out that the studs in the rotor had no grade markings on the heads. Checker Auto refused to replace it since they could not find any record of me buying it. I will never buy another non name brand brake part again and I do all of my own brake work.
 
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